Barbie in The Nutcracker

[Music playing]

Hannah Leach: Welcome to Sleepover Cinema, where we analyze the films that created the collective unconscious of those who love a semi-transparent sparkling tutu. I'm Hannah Leach.

Audrey Leach: And I'm Audrey Leach. We are the sister filmmaking duo, also known as Too Pink Productions. And we haven't stopped thinking about these movies since we first saw them.

Hannah Leach: We're going to explore the good, the bad and the nonsensical of the movies that first inspired our love for film. In an attempt to answer the question, are these movies actually good? And at the end of the day, do we really care if they are?

Audrey Leach: Today we are talking about 2001’s, Barbie in the Nutcracker.

[Music playing]

Voiceover: In her first ever feature length movie, Barbie comes magically to life. Barbie in the Nutcracker, a spectacular adventure of music and dance.

Audrey Leach: Is it really in?

Hannah Leach: It's really Barbie in the Nutcracker.

Audrey Leach: Oh, okay.

Hannah Leach: Which is funny.

Audrey Leach: It would be wrong to say as the Nutcracker, because she's not the Nutcracker.

Hannah Leach: Right. She's not playing the role of the Nutcracker. But if she had, that would've been kind of cool.

Happy holidays everyone. This is our last episode before Christmas. I'm wearing my Christmas sweatshirt-

Audrey Leach: Is that true?

Hannah Leach: With the leg lamp on it. Yeah. I know.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. I guess so.

Hannah Leach: Audrey, did you go see the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center?

Audrey Leach: Yeah. And I've seen it many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. I'd probably see it every year at some point. It was like a little shabby this year.

Hannah Leach: I got to say, you did send a picture and it did look a little shabbier than normal.

Audrey Leach: I'm already a little underwhelmed by it, so I was like pretty underwhelmed by it.

Hannah Leach: Maybe they had budget cuts this year. Who knows? My thing I've been thinking about a lot over the past few weeks is, you know the song Up on the Housetop?

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: So okay, when you think of the chorus of that song, “Ho, ho, ho,” what comes next? Don't think about it too hard. If you were singing it, what would you say?

Audrey Leach: I feel like it's either who wouldn't go or like who wouldn't know or-

Hannah Leach: Okay.

Audrey Leach: Something like that.

Hannah Leach: So, I grew up thinking it's who wouldn't know because that makes the most sense. Who wouldn't go up on the rooftop? I wouldn't want to get in Santa's way, personally. But apparently the actual words are, “Who wouldn't go?”

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: But there's a version by Reba McEntire where it's alternating who wouldn't know and who wouldn't go. But I'm personally team who wouldn't know and I'm sticking by it because that makes most sense.

Audrey Leach: I think it’s both. Yeah, I think it is both. That's why I had both in my head because I can hear both.

Hannah Leach: They're both extremely feasible. But I just was very surprised to hear anyone say that it was who wouldn't go.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Because it doesn't make sense to me. Are you ready for the question for the culture, this week?

[Music playing]

Voiceover: The culture's super sick right now. It's actually really bad. Period.

Hannah Leach: So, this is something that has come up in conversation recently, among my friends. Question for the culture Christmas edition/holiday edition. If someone is going to get you a gift, like outside of your family, do you want to know in advance that they're giving you a gift/will you feel guilty if you didn't give them one back?

Audrey Leach: Yeah, I would definitely want to know because you can only set that precedent with so many people. And then it's kind of like birthdays where like it has to be reciprocated within the year or it's like not legit.

Like, if say we were just friends and I got you a birthday present and then you didn't get me one, I'd be like, “Okay, I'm not getting her a birthday present anymore.”

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: Because it wasn't reciprocated.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: It has to be like cyclical.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: So, I would want to know and if I did get one and they didn't tell me, then that's on them at that point.

Hannah Leach: Yes. So, I am pro not telling people that you're going to get them a gift because if someone doesn't already want to get you a gift, you don't want to force an obligation on them to get you something.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Well really, it's the on the person who's giving the gift to actually not care if they get one or not.

Hannah Leach: Exactly.

Audrey Leach: That's what it really is.

Hannah Leach: It takes the emotional maturity to not expect to get one back.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, and I think like that is way easier to do for Christmas than for birthdays.

Hannah Leach: Yes, I definitely agree. And I don't want to know if someone's getting me a gift really. Like if I want to get you something, I'll get you something. Don't tell me and make it weird.

Audrey Leach: I don’t know. I think that it would be weird to tell someone that because now you are prompting them to buy you something, which is weird but it's with good intentions.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: So, I understand, but would I tell someone? No.

Hannah Leach: We have a group chat with like a few friends and I have one friend who's really pro gift giving, like really like love language as gifts type of person. And they were in the chat being like, “So, how do we feel about doing like Secret Santa, how do we feel about doing XYZ?” And it's just like crickets.

Audrey Leach: Crickets.

Hannah Leach: Crickets every time he brings it up. And I like getting gifts for people. I also like have enough disposable income where I can do it without like breaking the bank or whatever. But the total silence is so disrespectful and I feel so bad for the person. Like I texted him separately and was like, “You just got to do your thing. If you want to get gifts or if you want to give them, just give them. But don't expect anything back.”

Audrey Leach: I do not blame anyone for not wanting to participate.

Hannah Leach: Are you ready to talk about the facts here?

Audrey Leach: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Hannah Leach: Barbie inside the Nutcracker was released straight to video on October 2nd, 2001. And it was rated TV-Y, which is confusing because it didn't air on TV, it was straight to video. But there's that.

It was directed by Owen Hurley who either executive produced or directed all of the following; Barbie in The Pink Shoes, Barbie of Swan Lake, Barbie as Rapunzel, Company of Heroes (that whole series), Warhammer-Dark Crusade, Casper’s Haunted Christmas, lots of like animated semi-low budget shit. And the movie was written by a few people.

So, it was based on The Tale written by E.T.A Hoffmann, who apparently also wrote The Tale of the Sandman or like probably was compiling folklore into a book and The Sandman also got mixed into that.

And then next we have Linda Engelsiepen, wrote a lot of other weird home video animated things.

You may remember the name Rob Hudnut. He is back once again-

Audrey Leach: Yeah, I do.

Hannah Leach: He worked on all of the following Barbie projects; Life in the Dream House, Barbie and the Secret Door. All these have Barbie before them; Mariposa and The Fairy Princess, in the Pink Shoes, Princess & the Popstar, A Perfect Christmas, A Camping We Will Go, executive producer of all of these things. An unreal amount of Barbie content. There's more than that. That is just what I have.

Last but not least, we have Hilary Hinkle who had three credits and I didn't write them down, because I didn't recognize any of them. So, sorry to Ms. Hinkle. But let's get into the synopsis.

Audrey Leach: IMDb:

“In her first movie, brimming with Tchaikovsky’s enchanting music, Barbie gives life to the plucky young girl, Clara, as she narrates the fascinating story of the Nutcracker to her younger sister, Kelly.

When Clara receives a lustrous wooden nutcracker from Aunt Elizabeth Drosselmayer as a Christmas present, that same night the magical toy comes to life to protect her from the army of the evil Mouse King (played by Tim Curry). The invader manages to shrink her to toy size.

Now, Clara and her defender, the brave Nutcracker embark on a marvelous adventure in search of the beautiful Sugarplum Princess, the only one capable of breaking the spell. Can a dash of valor help Clara thwart the King's plans?”

Hannah Leach: By far the most comprehensive synopsis, as you will see.

Audrey Leach: And the other two are really short. Letterboxd is: “Barbie stars as Clara in this animated retelling of the classic Christmas ballet, complete with Tchaikovsky soundtrack and ballet choreography.”

And the Rotten Tomatoes one is: “Clara wakes up one night and discovers her Nutcracker has come to life and needs her help to defeat the evil Mouse King.”

Three taglines: first one is, “Starring in her first movie.” The second one is (I'm doing my Barbie voice), “Starring in her first feature length movie.” And the third one is, “Barbie starring in her first movie.”

Hannah Leach: They have a lot of messages there to communicate to us.

Audrey Leach: Really boring.

Hannah Leach: Clearly the branding was robust.

Audrey Leach: Is this her first movie? Is that true?

Hannah Leach: Well, it was the first of like this type, this cast. It's one of those situations where it's like very booked and blessed voice actors that we’re not really going to know. But I'm just going to go quickly, except for one person, obviously.

We have Kelly Sheridan. She is the voice of Barbie in like almost every Barbie thing that exists, especially all of these like computer-animated movies of this era. Shout out to Kelly Sheridan for bringing what she has brought into our lives.

Next, we have Kirby Morrow as Nutcracker/Prince Eric. He has done voice work in Inuyasha, X-Men: Evolution, RoboCop and Escape from Planet Earth.

Next of course, we have Tim Curry as the Mouse King. To me this is a very similar casting choice as when they casted Martin Short as Preminger in Princess and the Pauper. But Tim Curry is like a very beloved actor, best known for his roles in Congo, Clue, The Three Musketeers and The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

However, as a voice actor, he has also done a lot of interesting things. He was in Barbie and the Three Musketeers, so this is not his only appearance in the Barbie franchise.

Okay, this is just like me cherry-picking things that I thought were interesting. He was the voice of Lemony Snicket, in A Series of Unfortunate Events video game. Of course, of course, of course, he's the voice of Nigel Thornberry in The Wild Thornberrys.

He was also on Will & Grace, Hey Arnold, he's in Muppet Treasure Island and he played Rooster in the 80’s Annie, which makes me very happy. And that totally tracks. I feel like Alan Cumming is very much in the lineage of Tim Curry in a lot of ways, so that's great.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. And you haven't seen that one, have you?

Hannah Leach: Mm-hmm (negative).

Audrey Leach: I saw it for the first time, like last year probably.

Hannah Leach: What'd you think?

Audrey Leach: I mean it's like obnoxious, but it's good.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, Annie's not really known for its subtlety across the board, but-

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: The one that we love is so good. So, I understand.

We have Chantal Strand as Kelly. She is like the voice of Kelly and then has also done like a ton of like little girl animated media, like straight to home video type of things.

Audrey Leach: Okay budget, we have no idea. Opening weekend, there wasn't one.

Hannah Leach: Yep.

Audrey Leach: Worldwide gross, Barbie in the Nutcracker had a 94% sell-through rate and sales of over 3.5 million units on video and DVD. It grossed U.S $150 million in total sales, including associated merchandise.

And then just to define what a sell-through rate is. Sell-through rate measures the amount of inventory you've sold in a month versus the amount of inventory shipped to you from a manufacturer. Sell-through rate is an important retail sales metric that allows you to monitor the efficiency of your supply chain.

Hannah Leach: Audrey's reading directly the copy and paste, but yeah, I thought that was interesting. Now we know what a sell-through rate is.

I'd be curious what the sell-through rate was on The 10th Kingdom as well and all of our other movies of this vibe overall.

So, now getting into critic and audience opinions, this was an interesting ride. Their critic score was 20%, which makes sense to me and I have some critic opinions here.

First one, this was just from someone random on Rotten Tomatoes; “It looks rough, but I think that in this case there are enough other things working that I can handle it.”

Next person from the New York Times: “The film works well enough according to the undemanding rules of Barbie. With its adventures in fairyland and magical transformations, this is a diverting, inoffensively sweet tale for very small children.”

Next from The Hollywood Reporter, The Hollywood Reporter praised the film as wholesome entertainment for young girls, writing: “Barbie is all gentle and generous and not afraid of a villain or two. The story is strong, the animation's blended and the music and choreography delightful. The entire production is first rate.”

And then we have a hater review. Variety says: “A generic fantasy adventure, observing similarities to the Wizard of Oz.” And they wrote: “Pre-adolescent girls may be charmed by sugary sweetness of Barbie in the Nutcracker, but they shouldn't expect their parents or even slightly older siblings to join them for repeated viewings of this made for video trifle.”

Audrey Leach: Literally lighten up.

Hannah Leach: I know, I'm like, “You mean to tell me that someone from Variety is sitting down and dunking on this, for money?” It's sad.

Audrey Leach: But we also dunk on things for money.

Hannah Leach: You're so right, you're so right. But with something like this, we're not going to be like, “Fuck children.”

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like you just have to know when the dunking is worth it.

Hannah Leach: Right. Like this is the most inoffensive thing ever.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Like it's not worth dunking on. I will say the Common Sense Media section was interesting.

Audrey Leach: So, Common Sense Media gave it two stars and said that it's good for ages five and up.

“Parents need to know that there are dolls and product tie-ins that accompany this movie. Also, Barbie is not as strong-willed or as complete a character as she becomes in later Barbie movies.

There are some perilous moments, as well as some hand-to-hand combat; the Mouse King growls and threatens with ferocity, using words like, “stupid” “idiot” and so forth.

Compared to later Barbie movies, this feeble variation of Tchaikovsky and Balanchine's Nutcracker portrays Barbie as a watcher, not a doer. She helps the Nutcracker with some of his tasks and she stands up to the Mouse King in a scary confrontation. But she's more interested in being the romantic link than the heroic one.”

And then these are the topics that families can discuss:

“Families can talk about leadership roles. Why does Prince Eric feel that he has let his people down? What are your ideas of good leadership? Which came first? Barbie or the Barbie movies? Do you think that her movies have more value than long advertisements for the doll? Why or why not?”

Hannah Leach: Do you think that there's more value in these movies than just being long advertisements?

Audrey Leach: I think the value of them is not so much like the lessons learned or some shit, but more just like how strange this visual medium is.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, the friends we made along the way.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, I think there's value to them, but not because of the story.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, also rewind. She's more interested in being the romantic link than the heroic one, God forbid. You know what I'm saying? I know it's for kids, but it's like we need to make space and feminism for delicate women. That's a joke.

Audrey Leach: Why do we have to choose? Yeah, like it's fine. I want to talk about the archetype of Ken in the second half.

Hannah Leach: Audience score and Letterboxd average star rating. The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes was 59% and the Letterboxd average star rating was 3.4. So, you probably already know where this is going.

On audience opinions, weirdly, there were no Rotten Tomatoes reviews. For audience, here are some cherry-picked reviews from Letterboxd. And when I say cherry-picked, these were like off the top. I was not scrounging for these. And they all are annoying. They're all so annoying.

Okay, the first one, three stars. “La La Land (2016) who?” I don't even get that. Why would someone say that?

Audrey Leach: Because of the dance sequences.

Hannah Leach: Ah, okay.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Next one, five stars. “I need to know more about Aunt Elizabeth, the constantly traveling unmarried relative, who beckons our young protagonist to join her on adventures (aka the token lesbian auntie in every 19th century narrative).”

Ugh. I wrote down, “Please stop. This is the gay agenda in a bad way.” When people talk about the gay agenda, this is it.

Audrey Leach: Okay but, you are way too flip floppy on this topic.

Hannah Leach: I don't disagree that she seems like that character in this.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: But my refrain is that I'm just like begging people to come up with a new take on anything. It's like okay, you're going to log on to Letterboxd and say something's gay. No way. Like I hate redundancy.

And then the last one, five stars. “You mean you used to be-not a nutcracker. Happy holidays everyone. This is literally one of the best films ever made. If you think I'm joking, I am absolutely not. It's lesbophobic. This was not nominated for best picture.”

What are they talking about?

Audrey Leach: I don't know.

Hannah Leach: I think they're trying to make an argument that like the Nutcracker is trans. Can we just not?

Audrey Leach: Are you serious? I don't think that's what … I think they were more likely to say that — well …

Hannah Leach: No, I feel like it's like-

Audrey Leach: Wait, it can't be the aunt because they're related.

Hannah Leach: No, no. I think what they're implying is that it's like the Nutcracker used to not be the Nutcracker, because he used to be a different gender? I just hate this review. Like just don't, just don't.

Cultural context. Here's what I got. So, something interesting is that this movie was choreographed by the New York City Ballet, by their main choreographer, Master-In-Chief, Peter Martins.

The film's music of course was based on Tchaikovsky score for the Nutcracker and it was performed by the London Symphony Orchestra. They do stay booked. They're recording shit all the time for movies like this.

Unsurprisingly, the films ballet sequences feature the movement of New York City ballet dancers, computer-animated, through motion capture imaging. You can very much tell.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, we know.

Hannah Leach: You can very much tell, not in a great way. And then in terms of the product tie-ins, Barbie in the Nutcracker had an extensive product tie-in campaign. The products included a book, eight dolls, a Hallmark Christmas ornament, ballet bags and sleepwear.

The toy line included Barbie as Clara/the Sugarplum Princess, Ken as Prince Eric, Kelly and Tommy as their feature characters and a horse and candy sleigh. The Barbie as Clara and Ken Prince Eric were available in both Caucasian and African-American models. As they said.

[Music playing]

Voiceover: The first movie, Barbie in the Nutcracker, it's Sugarplum Princess Barbie.

[Movie track playing]

Hannah Leach: And then also just something that was funny to me is that on the Wikipedia page for this movie, it also was like, “Related articles, list of films featuring miniature people.” So, then I ended up looking at the list of films including miniature people and I thought that was funny.

When did we first watch this movie? What did we remember before we watched it? I have some things, but Audrey, do you want to go first?

Audrey Leach: I'm pretty sure we had it on VHS, not DVD.

Hannah Leach: We did.

Audrey Leach: Which gives it a date like pre our DVD player-

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: Is when we got it. We had both Swan Lake and this one and they're both like very much dance heavy. And so, I did appreciate that aspect. But like Princess and the Pauper of course, was our number one watched one, like Nutcracker might have been my last place.

Hannah Leach: I think to me Nutcracker was third place.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. It's either third or fourth just because they're very dance heavy and because of that they are focused less on story. Like it's, like Princess and The Pauper has a lot of story actually, to follow.

Hannah Leach: Yes, it does.

Audrey Leach: And so does Rapunzel like more so. Swan Lake will be the last one that we haven't done.

Hannah Leach: You're right. I'm excited to watch that one again though when we get to it. Okay. So, to me this movie is definitely a Christmas movie. I think we got it for Christmas one year potentially. That seems very possible.

We had the Barbie of Barbie in this movie. Her crown was like a little clip. The tutu was to die for. It was like layered and there was like a sparkly like top sheer layer to it that was really pretty. Her legs-

Audrey Leach: Yeah, the legs were like with the hinges.

Hannah Leach: And so were the feet, so she could be like on point and her arms had like the hinges on them too. It was a good doll. I loved that doll. And I was also just a big Barbie person, which you guys know at this point for sure.

I'm pretty sure that we got the movie in Boston because it was the — actually no, it would've been the Christmas before we were living in Boston. So, we got it at Silver Lake.

And then I definitely remember watching it at grandma Irene's house. Like I think it was a VHS that we like traveled with to a certain extent. Or she may have had it.

Other things about it before I rewatched it, obviously, all of the accents, all of the like really overdone English accents, I remembered. I remembered of course, the opening with Kelly. I always just think of the thing in Rapunzel when she's like, “Can't you just tell me what to paint?” Like that angry thing.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Oh, but that's not in this one. That's kind of all I remembered. And then of course the dancing at the end, but other than that, there wasn't much going on.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, I just remember Nutcracker how-

Hannah Leach: Yeah, exactly.

Audrey Leach: Guys do not pay to see-

Hannah Leach: I did. I paid. I paid.

Audrey Leach: I knew you would and I was going to texting you.

Hannah Leach: I was rushing.

Audrey Leach: I was going to text you and say don't pay for it. But I knew you would say, “Well, I can't because I want to watch it on my big TV.” Like I-

Hannah Leach: That’s not what I did. I watched it on my laptop.

Audrey Leach: If you want to watch it on like an Apple TV or whatever, yeah, you're going to have to pay for it. But like if you HDMI it to a TV or if you just watch it on a computer, you can find it for free in like 20 different places by simply googling.

Hannah Leach: I did google it.

Audrey Leach: Barbie, Nutcracker free. It's on the Barbie Wikipedia, the BarbiePedia thing.

Hannah Leach: I was rushing to get this movie watched and because of that I just took the path of least resistance.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. So, I'm just telling you all don't pay for it.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, listen to Audrey. I love spending $4 for no reasons. So, that's what I did. So, listen to Audrey's advice and then meet us back here, after a quick commercial break. I hope they don't try to sell you better help, but they probably will.

[Music playing]

Okay everyone, welcome back. It is time to talk about Barbie in the Nutcracker from 2001. I have one thing right off the bat, which is opening credits. You got the blonde little fairy and the brunette little fairy flying around, which unlocked the strong conviction in me as a child, which is that those were us obviously.

Audrey Leach: That did not cross my mind. I don't know why though.

Hannah Leach: That was the first thing I thought is, “There's me and Audrey.”

Audrey Leach: That was our thing for a while.

Hannah Leach: You get a brown-haired individual and a blonde-haired individual. That's us.

Audrey Leach: It's just funny though because now it's like neither of us actually have the hair color that we have.

Hannah Leach: That's true.

Audrey Leach: Okay. One thing about this movie that is ridiculous is that it's actually three stories. It's a story, within a story, within a story.

Hannah Leach: You are right.

Audrey Leach: Like why do we got to keep coming out. I wrote, “The idea that Barbie constantly tells 90-minute stories to Kelly just to tell her to keep trying or something, is really funny.”

Hannah Leach: That is funny and a little … that's the format I guess, that's how they like it.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like she's like, “Okay Kelly, sit down, I'm going to literally attack you with a 90-minute detailed story just to tell you to keep trying.”

Hannah Leach: I know. When she was like, “Clara,” when they were learning the choreography and she was like, “Clara.” I was like, “I feel the same way as you Kelly. Who is Clara?”

Audrey Leach: Like can you stop bringing up random people and things that I don't care about. And can we just stay focused on the topic at hand?

Hannah Leach: Can you just show me the choreo please? I will say though, I did write down Kelly sucks because Kelly does suck. Her vibe is off.

Audrey Leach: They set her up to fail and every movie, it's not her fault.

Hannah Leach: That's true. That's true. She's the one who has to have some sort of shortcoming for the lecture to then be spurred on.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like why is she always the one struggling? Why can't Barbie just be having the str — because then she couldn't tell the story I guess to someone else.

Hannah Leach: She … Kelly's version of the story.

Audrey Leach: I was finding it humorous watching it this time, that basically the character of Ken — because in this one it's a Nutcracker but like it ultimately is Ken. Ken is not a macho, ubermasculine character.

Basically, what Ken is both in like doll form and in the movies is like a man who supports and respects his female counterpart and is very … and he might be a little bit like chivalrous, like sometimes he is a little bit old-fashioned, I guess. But he's always nice. They don't have conflicts. Barbie and Ken, that is not where the conflict is.

Hannah Leach: No.

Audrey Leach: It's just like you notice that are there little boys who are into like whatever the fuck, like Hot Wheels or something.

Hannah Leach: We always go to Hot Wheels when we're talking about boys.

Audrey Leach: Like it’s Hot Wheels. I don't know why, but it's Hot Wheels. They're not like fans of Ken. They don't love Ken.

Hannah Leach: No, this is such a good point because Ken is like a woman's ideal.

Audrey Leach: He’s like a simp.

Hannah Leach: He's not a simp, he has emotional intelligence.

Audrey Leach: No, like in a good way.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: When people say simp derogatory, I'm like okay, like I don't agree but sure.

Hannah Leach: You don't agree with what?

Audrey Leach: With like using simp as like an insult.

Hannah Leach: I think it just has that connotation that it's an insult.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. It's just funny that like Barbie has a male doll counterpart that is like super famous and well-known but not famous and well-known by little boys.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. Well, because Ken's an accessory kind of. And I also think it's interesting because people are always like, “Ken is gay. Ken is gay, Ken seems gay.”

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Because he kind of — he doesn't really have a solid personality.

Audrey Leach: No. He's just like a Jimbo maybe. He's also out of his time, like a lot of times, in the Nutcracker, the guy who shows up at the end in Clara's like real life, who like arrives out of nowhere and is like, “Hello, I’m Eric.” He was very like formal and he like was kind of chivalrist vibes. But I guess that makes sense for the era of Clara's story. I don't-

Hannah Leach: Well, I will say, let's not forget that he kisses her hand and the uncle's like, “Oh, oh this is unacceptable, like the familiarity.” Like even that was edgy. The kissing the hand was edgy.

Audrey Leach: I think he is a little bit underappreciated.

Hannah Leach: I don't disagree. I do not disagree.

Audrey Leach: Did you ever watch Life in the Dream House or like see anything?

Hannah Leach: Yes. Life in the Dream House was good.

Audrey Leach: I think there was a few things, a few scenes and clips from that show that became memes and that's what caused me to watch it. But what they do with Ken in Life in the Dream House is definitely a departure from what he was in the early two 2000’s movies and he like, has a full personality seem that way, I guess. It's funny.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: I like it. He's a campy individual.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: And it also reminds me of what they do with Ken in Toy Story, when Barbie and Ken are in that.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. It is just really interesting to think that like Ken is formed in the female gaze, if you will. Like that is such a rare thing for toys. And it's kind of true for like, there really aren't like sexy lady dolls for boys. Obviously, this is very gender, everything we're talking about, but just like go with us.

Audrey Leach: Dolls as an entire concept are gendered away from boys.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: So yeah. So, just the fact that even though he's a boy doll, he's still a doll, so they're not into it.

Hannah Leach: It's also just so interesting because like you take a doll, you shrink it down and you call it an action figure and it's not gay anymore.

Audrey Leach: Just because it's plastic. Well, they're all plastic. But just because it's like hard plastic with no clothing, like no accessory, all of a sudden, it's like this is made for … they literally function in the exact same way.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: You're doing the exact same thing with both. Action figures I guess fill that slot of doll for the boys.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: But that's only through marketing. Like I think probably a lot of boys that had sisters played with dolls.

Hannah Leach: Totally. There's no reason not to. I think there's this like research that's like, a lot of boys don't like to do pretend to play in that sense. Like interpersonal drama. Yeah. This just seems like a missed opportunity to me. Playing with dolls is fun.

Audrey Leach: They could practice.

Hannah Leach: Practice being a human. Yeah.

Audrey Leach: For life. Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Maybe that's why men are such messes, because they didn't get to practice.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like regardless of their natural inclinations, it can be true that they are not as inclined to play in that way, but they should be encouraged to play in that way. Because they need it just as much, if not more than we do, so-

Hannah Leach: Yeah, that is definitely true. Shout out to Ken. Thank you for doing what you do for us.

Audrey Leach: A line that really made me laugh was, “I'm a nutcracker, sleep seems kind of pointless.”

Hannah Leach: There were a couple lines that were actually really funny, like when the king's like, “Dismemberment or barbecue.”

Audrey Leach: Yeah. I was like, “What the hell?” Also, that beat down was really severe.

Hannah Leach: When he gets like chucked up against the fountain and he's like, “Shit.” He's like crumpled in a pile on the ground. I was like, “Damn.” And I was watching it at like 1.75 speed, so it was like really violent all at once and I was like, “Damn, is he going to survive that one?”

Did you have the experience when you were watching this of like — we've talked about this before, when you're a kid and you like listen to people talking and you don't understand what they mean, but like it gets saved in your brain, then later you watch it and you're like, “Oh, that's what they were saying.”

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: That was happening to me like constantly with this movie.

Audrey Leach: It's just funny how like kids will watch movies that are for them but you're really not listening. I feel like it's just a lot more visually entertaining than it is like story-wise or like what they're saying. Did you notice that when they kissed at the very end, it sounded like people booed?

Hannah Leach: Yes, absolutely. They kissed and there was one person who's like, “Boo.”

Audrey Leach: It's not supposed to be a boo.

Hannah Leach: I remember even when I was a kid it sounded like a boo, but it's not.

Audrey Leach: No.

Hannah Leach: But it sounds like it. 100%.

Audrey Leach: Oh, another thought I had was like, what is this movie? And same goes with like Beauty and the Beast, but like what are these movies where people get transformed back into their true form? What lesson does this teach children? If you can't just magically transform into a hot person one day, it's like, what are we supposed to do?

Hannah Leach: You just go in the trash, if that doesn't happen again.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like we don't get hot-person transformation privileges in this life.

Hannah Leach: No, we don't. No, we don't.

Audrey Leach: And everything gets better for them at that point. It's kind of encouraging, like it's encouraging, like change yourself … it's like grease.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. Right, right, right.

Audrey Leach: Because the idea is that like you defeat the evil or you learn your lesson in “being ugly” or whatever. At least that's what it is with Beauty and the Beast. With this one, they're not really saying that the prince was a bad prince before.

Hannah Leach: Well, they are because all of the subjects are like, “Fuck that guy. He was a bad leader.”

Audrey Leach: I guess it is the same then, it's like the same.

Hannah Leach: The politics were a little dicey. It was a little unclear. Also, I felt like they really glossed over the fact that the Mouse King was like the advisor to the original king.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: Why is this such a thing?

Audrey Leach: Very Princess and the Pauper.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. But it's also like every movie, where there's some issue.

Audrey Leach: Twitches.

Hannah Leach: Twitches, kind of The Lion King almost.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. And it's always, as we've seen many times, but a lot of times it is like a gay coded, type figure.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: That is the evil counterpart to the once wholesome king that existed.

Hannah Leach: Yes. Are you implying that the Rat King, played by Tim Curry is gay?

Audrey Leach: I have a sneaking suspicion.

Hannah Leach: I think of it less as gay and more as like rambunctious and English and weird.

Audrey Leach: And it works. I think the Rat King was the most entertaining element.

Hannah Leach: Yes. I definitely agree. I also thought that scene with the bat and the Rat King when the rat … or excuse me, the Mouse King, when he turns like the other mice that have flopped into statues, all of that dialogue was actually really funny where he was like, “I need to make them useful.” And then he's like, “Statues, paperweights, bookends.” Like all pretty useless things. Like I thought that was funny.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. But that character in general, pygmy.

Hannah Leach: Oh boo.

Audrey Leach: Just add him to the list. Add him to the list.

Hannah Leach: Yes. Holy unnecessary. And you know what, he's a lot worse than the ferret in Rapunzel, because at least that guy gets to save [velauj 00:38:55] and is weird. And this guy is just-

Audrey Leach: Velauj.

Hannah Leach: I saw it today in the velauj. This is kind of a shit post. There's two more shit posts in terms of gay and other things. Is Prince Eric using his detachable arm as a tool, disabled representation?

Audrey Leach: What do you mean?

Hannah Leach: Like his arm gets broken but then he uses his broken arm in all of these alternative ways to save the day.

Audrey Leach: So yeah, I guess so, it's like, use your weakness as your strength.

Hannah Leach: Your greatest weakness can become your greatest strength. You can save Captain Candy from falling into the abyss. Speaking of which, when the general said, “Captain Candy,” I wrote that down.

What was the deal with them? Why were they together in the first place in that tree house? It's Major Mint. It was in my notes. Major Mint is kind of a menace and-

Audrey Leach: We got to talk about their choreo at the end.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. That has really lived in my mind for quite a while.

Audrey Leach: It's really funny and it's very memeable. So, immediately when I saw that I was like, “I'm just going to put that on TikTok and see if it can do numbers.” So, I did.

Hannah Leach: It could be doing numbers as we speak. Here's a question, this is a classic question. Is the dancing diegetic or non-diegetic in the end?

Audrey Leach: Is diegetic.

Hannah Leach: I think it is too.

Audrey Leach: I think it’s diegetic.

Hannah Leach: But they're not acknowledging the skill involved. Is it because it's all a dream?

Audrey Leach: No, they're just like vibing. Yeah. I think like the dream element of it, it's like a story being told to Kelly. It's Clara's dream.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: It's Clara's dream and it's Clara's story being told to Kelly. So, at that point you are too many degrees of not real. So yeah, I guess in a way the entire story is non-diegetic.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: Because it's being told to her and it's like a fable. So, but within the context of that story it is diegetic.

Hannah Leach: It really seems like it is.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Because they're all just standing there watching it. It's not like they go somewhere else. Like the audience is there.

Hannah Leach: The same people that we're booing are the audience. I also have to say about that scene, the transformation of Clara into the Sugarplum Princess could not be better, in my opinion. She looks so good. She has like giant crunchy dance recital curls, which I think is funny. And the glitter on the outfit.

Audrey Leach: It's beat only by Brandy in Cinderella.

Hannah Leach: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's true. In terms of animated though, I do feel like this is very high up.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, it's high up. And that would be a fun ranking actually. OG Cinderella is also really good. A good transformation.

Hannah Leach: Yes. I know we can't talk about this yet because we're going to save it for when we get to it, but the purple dress walking out of the ocean moment in The Little Mermaid, I have no words. Everything about that is so good.

Audrey Leach: It really slapped. Because here's the thing, they don't know, like if they would just make it like beautiful, I don't think anyone's going to complain. It makes me think of like Megan Fox in Transformers. It's like that's so male gaze and it's also not beautiful, like what she's wearing, it's just like plain as fuck.

Hannah Leach: Yeah.

Audrey Leach: It's like if you would just make it stunning, then like I think you could avoid-

Hannah Leach: Make it undeniable.

Audrey Leach: You could really avoid some of the male gaze claims.

Hannah Leach: Accusations.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. Like just make it appealing to everybody.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. I need that locket asap. The gold heart locket.

Audrey Leach: We kind of had that.

Hannah Leach: We did have-

Audrey Leach: We had that.

Hannah Leach: We didn't have the exact thing, but we had some that were like it.

Audrey Leach: Our names were on-

Hannah Leach: I wish I had had that still. I wonder where it is.

Audrey Leach: I don’t know.

Hannah Leach: We got them-

Audrey Leach: I liked that locket.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, we had family friends that got each of us like a ballerina themed music box with our names on them. Like engraved on the little clasp and then it came with the locket. It was a gold heart locket with our names on it and then two little like ballet slippers. That was good shit. Music boxes are underrated.

Audrey Leach: Piggy banks, music boxes.

Hannah Leach: We need to bring those into adulthood more. Yeah.

Audrey Leach: Underrated. Yeah. Like why not save some money? Why not put your coins in there?

Hannah Leach: In a festive vessel? Agreed.

Audrey Leach: I kind of want one now.

Hannah Leach: Yeah. Me too.

Audrey Leach: At the end of the day, is this movie kind of boring? Yeah, it is.

Hannah Leach: We are kind of scrounging here to even come up with things to say, which is saying something because this was a movie we watched a lot as a kid or as children, but there's just, just fine. It's boring. I'm sorry.

Audrey Leach: Well, it's seasonally relevant. I think it would be fun to watch if you have nostalgia for the movie, like around the holidays.

Hannah Leach: Yes.

Audrey Leach: And obviously if you're a Tchaikovsky fan or ballet fan.

Hannah Leach: This is your moment.

Audrey Leach: Then yeah, that's fun because the choreography … you can tell how good the dancers really are. Like they are amazing at what they're doing. It's just like, I'm almost sad that I can't see the footage of them doing it.

Hannah Leach: Same.

Audrey Leach: And like I do want to go to an actual production of the Nutcracker. It seems fun.

Hannah Leach: Very fun and festive. I definitely agree.

Audrey Leach: Yeah. It's not good and it's only worth watching if you have a nostalgia for it. That is our takeaway.

Audrey Leach: Yeah.

Hannah Leach: I wish that that wasn't the case. I still think that her look at the end is one for the history books, but that's a little bit of the only thing. And Tim Curry. Tim Curry and the final look. Those are the two highlights.

Audrey Leach: And honestly, aunt whatever the fuck her name is, Aunt Drosselmayer.

Hannah Leach: Aunt Elizabeth Drosselmayer.

Audrey Leach: I like her energy.

Hannah Leach: They did not have to make them the Drosselmayers, and yet that's what they did.

Audrey Leach: I like her vibe. She's got a good vibe.

Hannah Leach: Agreed.

Audrey Leach: She's weirdly formal.

Hannah Leach: She is. She is weirdly formal. You're right. I feel like after the depth we went into with Little Women last week, this was a much-needed fluffy moment just to get you excited for hopefully a very fun, unstressful weekend.

If you are a Christmas celebrator, we hope it's a good time. We hope there isn't family drama. We hope that there's good food.

I'm excited for Christmas Eve because I got a cute outfit, because Audrey got a cute outfit and Josh is like dressing 24/7 these days, so I need to step up my game to catch up with him. The table's turned really quickly on me there.

Audrey Leach: I don't know if I'm going to wear that, because the skirt is tight. It's like very tight, so I'm like, I want to eat-

Hannah Leach: Is it a bit much for Christmas?

Audrey Leach: I'm like, I want to eat food. So like, I don't want to be uncomfortable.

Hannah Leach: Well, we should at least get a pick with the full outfit and then can change.

Audrey Leach: I might not.

Hannah Leach: To look to.

Audrey Leach: Honestly, it's just like a little small, so I'm like I might not wear it.

Hannah Leach: Okay well, I'm sure you'll serve one way or another because you always find a way. Where can they find us?

Audrey Leach: Where the fuck can you find us?

Hannah Leach: Where the fuck are we even?

Audrey Leach: You could find more from us at evergreenpodcast.com/sleepover-cinema and keep up with our latest creative projects at toopinkproductions.com. We're on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and YouTube at Sleepover Cinema, and post a full video version of each episode on YouTube every Thursday.

You can follow me Audrey, at Audrey Anna Leach on everything.

[Music playing]

Hannah Leach: You can follow me, Hannah Rae Leach on Instagram. And @lanavontrapp on Twitter. Join our Discord if you haven't yet. I talk about it every week, but it's so fun. Just join us there, 24-hour group chat. That's how I like to describe it.

Audrey Leach: You can check out our merch at toopinkproductions.com/shop, and our Casetify code is still active. It is 15SLEEPOVER, and those links are in our Linktree.

Hannah Leach: And in the episode description. Give us a review. Leave us a review. Gift us a review on Apple Podcasts.

Audrey Leach: Yeah, that's what we want for Christmas, actually.

Hannah Leach: Give the gift of a review to us.

Audrey Leach: That’s so serious.

Hannah Leach: Yeah, that's the best way to put it.

Audrey Leach: Sleepover Cinema is a production of Evergreen Podcasts produced, edited, an engineered by us, Hannah and Audrey Leach. Sleepover Cinema is mixed by Sean Rule-Hoffman, with theme music by Josh Perelman-Hall, executive producer is Michael DeAloia.

Hannah Leach: Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

Audrey Leach: Ho, ho, ho. Bye.

Hannah Leach: Bye.