Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

[Music Playing]

Hannah Leach:

Welcome to Sleepover Cinema, where we analyze the films that created the collective unconscious of those who don't judge children based on their body size. I'm Hannah Leach, a writer, musician, audio producer, and Legend of Zelda soundtrack addict.

Audrey Leach:

And I'm Audrey Leach, director, editor, producer, and happily unemployed individual. We are the sister duo, also known as Toopink Productions, and we haven't stopped thinking about these movies since we first saw them.

Hannah Leach:

We're going to explore the good, the bad, and the nonsensical of the movies that first inspired our love for film in an attempt to answer the question: are these movies actually good? And at the end of the day, do we really care if they are?

Audrey Leach:

Today we are talking about 2005’s Charlie and The Chocolate Factory.

[Trailer Playing]

Voiceover:

“Have you ever seen a single person going into that factory?”

“There must be people working there.”

“The only thing that comes out of that place is the candy. I'd give anything in the world just to go in that amazing factory.”

“Dear people of the world, I, Willy Wonka, have decided to allow five children to visit my factory.”

“Five golden tickets have been hidden underneath the wrapping paper of five ordinary Wonka bars.”

“Wouldn't it be something Charlie to open a bar of candy and find a golden ticket?”

“But I only get one bar here.”

“Nothing's impossible.”

“You found Wonka's last golden ticket.”

“From director, Tim Burton.”

“Please enter.”

“Who are you?”

“He's Willy Wonka.”

“I'm Violet Beauregarde.”

“I don't care.”

“I love your chocolate.”

“I can see that.”

“I’m Veruca Salt. Daddy, I want another pony.”

“You're my TV.”

“Die, die, die.”

“Okay. And you, well, you're just lucky to be here, aren't you? Welcome to the factory.”

[End of Trailer]

Hannah Leach:

So, we're wearing our shades today to serve the dual purpose of referencing Willy Wonka and also not putting on eye makeup. Pretty genius of us actually.

Audrey Leach:

I kind of want to do this forever.

Hannah Leach:

Me too. I absolutely want to do it forever.

Audrey Leach:

This is my favorite state to be in. Black turtleneck, red lipstick, eyes covered. Like that's ideal.

Hannah Leach:

She's mysterious.

Audrey Leach:

Actually, sometimes I wonder if people either think that I am blind or that I think I'm really cool because I will wear sunglasses in the subway because eye contact with strangers makes me really uncomfortable and I don't like it. So, I will wear sunglasses in the subway.

Hannah Leach:

Wait, I had no idea that you do that. They probably think you're a celebrity or something.

Audrey Leach:

I don't think so. I wouldn't even know because I keep them on in the subway and I also don't look at people, so I'm just like there.

Hannah Leach:

Wait, I can't believe that you're like that. That's new information to me.

Audrey Leach:

I mean, not if I'm with someone else. If I'm alone though … and if I have them on. I'm not like putting them on for the subway, but if I have them, I will keep them on.

Hannah Leach:

Do you still not listen to stuff on the train or do you?

Audrey Leach:

I have always listened to stuff on the train. There was a period of time where I just didn't/I would only put in one earbud. But I very rarely raw dog the subway. I don't …

Hannah Leach:

My look is, I realized once I put on the lipstick that it's very Lolita-inspired. That's what it looks like. The heart shaped sunglasses with the red, I just seem to be like in a photo set on Tumblr in 2011. And I would complete the mood here.

Our question for the culture this week is a little different than normal.

[Music Playing]

Speaker 1:

The culture's super sick right now. It's actually really bad, period.

Hannah Leach:

As you guys know, we have been doing question for the culture for many episodes now, and we assumed that everyone knew …

Audrey Leach:

I didn't assume.

Hannah Leach:

Where the … I assumed for some reason that everyone would know where that audio bite came from and like what we're referencing. But I asked in the Discord earlier today, do you guys know what we're talking about?

And it was a resounding no/crickets, which implies no. So, we are here to explain what question for the culture is today.

Audrey Leach:

Honestly, I didn't think that anyone … I thought very few people would understand the reference. But I thought that the audio was funny without understanding it. So, I was like, “Okay, it's fine.”

Hannah Leach:

Yes. I was like, “How do I even begin to explain this?” But thankfully, this whole incident is archived on knowyourmeme.com. So, here's some stuff that I pulled just to explain what it is.

Lana Del Rey's question for the culture post refers to an Instagram post made by singer Lana Del Rey in May, 2020 (think about May, 2020) addressing her resentment toward the music industry standards for women's hit song subject matter.

In the long post, she mentions that there is no place for women like her in the industry, and that she has been criticized for glamorizing abuse, while other huge female artists have hits with questionable subject matter.

The post was widely criticized by Twitter and Instagram users who called her racist and privileged. She also voices her annoyance of negative reviews of her earlier albums. And later on in the post, she reveals her upcoming sixth studio album’s release date. Audrey, would you like to read the first sentence of this post?

Audrey Leach:

Another thing to note about this post is that there are some extreme run on sentences going on.

“Question for the culture: now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camila, Cardi B, Kehlani, and Nicki Minaj and Beyonce have had number ones with songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating, et cetera …

Can I please go back to singing about being embodied, feeling beautiful by being in love, even if the relationship is not perfect or dancing for money, or whatever I want without being crucified or saying I'm glamorizing abuse?

Let this be clear, I'm not, not a feminist, but there has to be a place in feminism for women who look, and act like me. The kind of woman who says no, but men hear yes. The kind of women who are slated mercilessly for being authentic, delicate selves. The kind of women who get their own stories and voices taken away from them by stronger women or by men who hate women.”

What?

Hannah Leach:

Yeah. And it goes on and on and I cannot emphasize enough. This was May 2020, which makes it all the better and all the worse. Like I just can't imagine a possibly worse time for her to have done this, which adds to it.

And then, so the sound bite that you hear, “the culture’s super sick right now” comes from this video she posted on her Instagram story where she is, for lack of a better term, clapping back at her detractors. And we'll just include some highlights from that here.

Lana Del Rey:

“You know, I just think it's sad that the women I mentioned about, you know, whether they sing about dancing for money or whatever, the same stuff by the way that I've been singing about chronicling for 13 years, that's why I'm in that echelon. Yes, they are my friends and peers and contemporaries.

The difference is when I get on the pole, people call me a whore. But when Twigs gets on the pole, it's art. You know, I mean, I'm reminded constantly by my friends that lyrically, there are layers and complicated psychological factors that play into some of my songwriting.

But I just want to say the culture's super sick right now. And the fact that they want to turn my posts, my advocacy for fragility into a race war, it's really bad. It's actually really bad.

Especially when in that same declaration, I was talking again, about the idea of how important it is for me to make reparations to the Navajo community because they touched me so much in my youth.

That I believe in personal reparations because it's the right thing to do. To all of the other women out there who are like me, good girls, good intention, who get fucked up the ass constantly by the culture just because you know; just say what you really mean. I'm with you.”

Hannah Leach:

That's what we're referencing. Why do we use it? I think it's because we have been Lana fans for a really long time. Neither of us are defending any of this obviously. It continues to be funny until now to me.

Audrey Leach:

I mean, it was somewhat bold behavior for us to put it in. But she's a silly woman sometimes and I think she likes to talk a lot about her karmic lineage and being delicate and shit like that. Like she sometimes cannot help but be a white woman in her thirties. Like sometimes she just cannot resist the urge.

Hannah Leach:

In her post, she does talk about like making reparations to the Native American community where she grew up. So, it's not like … okay, we don't have to get into this.

Audrey Leach:

She's not a hateful person, she's just silly. And sometimes she puts her foot in her mouth.

Hannah Leach:

And then the orchestra, the string moment you're hearing is from the beginning of her song Honeymoon, and I thought that added to the vibe of what she was saying. So, that is what question for the culture is. Now, you know, if you did not know before. Is it time to talk about this movie?

Audrey Leach:

I guess it is time. Yes.

Hannah Leach:

Alright, here we go.

Charlie And the Chocolate Factory was released on July 15th, 2005. It was rated PG for mild language, action, and quirky situations (whatever that means). It was directed by Tim Burton who obviously needs no explanation but just to be quick, Edward Scissorhands, Corpse Bride, Sweeney Todd, Big Eyes, Sleepy Hollow, Batman Returns, Beetlejuice, Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

And then, of course carrying the torch of the bad heavily CGI Disney remakes. So, the Alice in Wonderland series and Dumbo. And I would say that this movie was probably the beginning of this era for him based off of the CGI of it all. But that's just my opinion.

The book that this movie was based upon is written by Roald Dahl, who also wrote Matilda, James and the Giant Peach and The BFG. He has screenplay writing credits for an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents.

He controversially has screenplay writing credit for Willy Wonka, which is the seventies one, which he infamously hated how that movie turned out, but technically, he does have a screenplay writing credit for the movie.

He also wrote the screenplay for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as we talked about on the Matilda episode. And he was also a TV writer in addition to his career as being a novelist. Back in the fifties he was writing TV.

The screenplay was written by John August who's known for writing Big Fish, Frankenweenie, Go, Charlie's Angels, Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle, this movie and the 2019 Aladdin as well as Corpse Bride. So, he's in with the Tim Burton camp for sure.

Audrey Leach:

Alright and then synopsis. This is the IMDB one.

“When Willy Wonka decides to let five children into his chocolate factory, he decides to release five golden tickets in five separate chocolate bars causing complete mayhem.

The tickets start to be found with the fifth going to a very special boy called Charlie Bucket. With his grandpa, Charlie joins the rest of the children to experience the most amazing factory ever, but not everything goes to plan within the factory.”

Okay, that was kind of weirdly written.

Letterboxd:

“A young boy wins a tour through the most magnificent chocolate factory in the world led by the world's most unusual candy maker.”

And finally, Rotten Tomatoes:

“Based on the beloved Roald Dahl tale, this comedic and fantastical film follows young Charlie Bucket and his grandpa Joe as they join a small group of contest winners who get to tour the magical and mysterious factory of eccentric candy maker, Willy Wonka.

Aided by his diminutive Oompa-Loompas workers, Wonka has a hidden motivation for the tour, one that he will reveal only after the children in the group show their true colors.”

Wearing the sunglasses is actually really helpful for me because they're prescription so I can read better.

Hannah Leach:

Oh nice, I like mine because I'm not being blinded by my LEDs as much as normal.

Audrey Leach:

Taglines. The first one is “The Factory Opens July, 2005.Get ready for a taste of adventure. Oompa-Loompas are crazy for Coco-Beans. The Factory Opens July.”

Hannah Leach:

Oh we already said that.

Audrey Leach:

“Willy Wonka is semi-sweet and nuts. Charlie is lucky to be there. Mike thinks candy is a waste of time. Veruca is a very bad nut. Violet keeps her eyes on the prize. Augustus is what he eats.”

Hannah Leach:

So, those were like on posters of each kid obviously, and Willy Wonka and the Oompa-Loompas. So, there are a lot of people in the cast here and I really only filled in details for those that are particularly relevant either to our culture or to the movie itself.

Of course, we have Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka. All I'm going to say is that at the time this movie came out, which was 2005, he was really on a hot streak of things for kids. So, Pirate of the Caribbean, the first one came out in 2003, then Finding Neverland, which was not that kid friendly but whatever.

And then Charlie and the Chocolate Factory came out 2005, Corpse Bride also 2005 and then Pirate of the Caribbean two and three both came out in 2006. So, he was kind of at his peak in terms of relevance to us, at least in this era.

Audrey Leach:

When it comes to domestic abuse cases with celebrities, you're just not going to know the truth as a random person and therefore … like do we all tend to just be like, “Yeah, fuck the guy?” Yeah, we do and that's probably true.

Hannah Leach:

Well, we also tend to be fuck the woman though as a society.

Audrey Leach:

As a society, absolutely. They say “Fuck the woman.” As me, it's always fuck the guy almost in a reactionary sense. And it's like I don't care to be apologetic towards millionaire men. Like I don't care. Even if I'm was wrong, I'd still be like “Well, he's going to be fine. So, it's fine.”

Hannah Leach:

The last thing I'll say about that is that I was talking about Josh with this yesterday and kind of like what I ended up coming up with, which felt right to me is that like I believe Amber Heard for a lot of reasons, but especially because she's not even close to as famous as him.

So, why would she do that if it wasn't like … why would you throw yourself under the bus reputation-wise like that. So, then we have Freddie Highmore as Charlie Bucket, best known for Finding Neverland, which is funny because same as Johnny Depp.

Bates Motel, Art of Getting By, The Art of Getting By — and now he's in The Good Doctor. That's like his main thing now. It's a TV series. He's been in 107 episodes and he is the main character.

Then we have David Kelly as Grandpa Joe, Helena Bonham Carter as Mrs. Bucket, Noah Taylor as Mr. Bucket. Then we have Missy Pyle as Mrs. Beauregard best known for Dodgeball, The Artist, Galaxy Quest, Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle, Along Came Polly, Big Fish and Josie and the Pussycats.

Then we have James Fox as Mr. Salt. We have Deep Roy as the Oompa-Loompas which begs the question, who is this man? He is in the 2009 Star Trek and all of the following movies in the franchise. He was Teeny Weeny. That is the named character in The NeverEnding Story.

He was General Bonesapart in Corpse Bride. He was in The Haunted Mansion, Big Fish, How The Grinch Stole Christmas and Return to Oz, the scary sequel thing. And he plays the Tin Man, which is just like a guy … it's like a scrap metal guy. So, he must have been in the suit, I don't really know.

Then, we have Christopher Lee as Dr. Wonka. Of course, he was Saruman in Lord of the Rings. Lord Summerisle in The Wicker Man, Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus in Star Wars, episode two, the Jabberwock, Alice in Wonderland, in Corpse Bride in Sleepy Hollow and a million other things. And he died in 2015, unfortunately.

We have Adam Godley as Mr. Teavee. Jordan Fry as Mike Teavee, Franziska Troegner as Mrs. Gloop, Philip Wiegratz as Augustus Gloop, AnnaSophia Robb as Violet Beauregard. Of course, we know about her. Samantha Parkington in an American Girl Holiday. Bridge to Terabithia, The Way, Way Back, Soul Surfer, Little Fires Everywhere, Because of Winn-Dixie.

I always think of; I'm Glad My Mom Died now whenever I hear Because of Winn-Dixie. And then last but not least, we have Julia Winter who played Veruca Salt, and this is her only credit.

Audrey Leach:

The budget was $150 million. That's crazy. The opening weekend made $56,178,450, and the worldwide gross is $474,968,763.

Hannah Leach:

Okay, so critical and audience opinions. The critic score on Rotten Tomatoes is 83%, and the critic consensus is “Closer to the source material than 1970 ones, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is for people who like their chocolate visually appealing and dark.” Would you like to read the critic opinions?

Audrey Leach:

Sure. Okay. First one is:

“I wonder if even children will respond to the peculiarly, humorless and charmless stylistic eccentricities of Mr. Burton and his star, Johnny Depp.”

Second one: “Marrying extreme set design and sublime casting. Burton's film showcases his usual interest in gothic effects and the original Willy Wonka's psychedelia.”

The third one is: “Somehow everything comes up smelling of rose scented chocolate. Burton outdoes himself and it's the inside of the chocolate factory and its community of singing Oompa-Loompas that scintillate.”

And the last one: “Depp's Wonka exudes none of the gravity required for the role. It's as though he didn't take the role seriously. Rather than an intimidating candy man teaching brats a lesson, this Wonka is simply a freak.”

Hannah Leach:

I think that he's both, personally. I think he's intimidating and a freak in this movie. Audience score and Letterboxd average star rating.

So, 51% audience score and 3.2 stars average on Letterboxd. I was kind of surprised that the audience score was that much lower than the critic score. Because that's normally not how it is, but that's what happened.

So, some audience opinions. First one is four stars:

“I went to college with Willy Wonka. He was a good guy who smokes a lot of weed.”

Next one, half a star: “Where the overall feel of the original was warm and with a charming eccentric in the main role, this version is uncomfortably weird and a little disturbing. The portrayal of Willy Wonka looks like it was a no small part inspired by Michael Jackson, which seems like an odd move and greatly adds to the overall disturbing and off feel of the film. Wouldn't watch again.”

The next one, five stars: “This is not a remake rather than an original version that exists outside of the first. Johnny Depp and Tim Burton made a fantastic movie that expands the life of Willy Wonka. The songs were different and great. Watched this movie for the last 15 years and it never gets old. Of course, the original is better, but this one doesn't deserve hate.”

What do you think about those takes?

Audrey Leach:

I don't know because we can just go right into when we first watched because I'm pretty sure we saw this version maybe before the original. Probably before the original. So-

Hannah Leach:

Maybe, yeah.

Audrey Leach:

I mean it sticks out in my memory being before the original. So, I think that can really skew your perception of an adaptation when you see the new one before the original. It's kind of like in your brain, the new one is the original just because of the order.

So, I feel like if I had been older and seen the Gene Wilder one first, I probably would've thought that this one was like empty as fuck. Like I probably would've been like this movie feels hollow compared to the original.

Yeah, I think Gene Wilder's just like a lot better for the role than Johnny Depp is, but they play it really differently. But Gene Wilder just like has a soul that even if the character is a little off color, you never doubt that he like has feelings. I think Johnny Depp can kind of cloud that a little bit too much.

Hannah Leach:

Honestly, I thought that it did seem like he had feelings and I really like him. He's really particular. Every time he moves his rubber gloves and they make a squeaky sound, it made me laugh. That really was just funny to me.

I get the Michael Jackson comparison. I kind of feel inclined to say that feels more like an observation that's rooted in what the climate of the time was. Which was like when I was in middle school and elementary school, I remember there being like endless Michael Jackson jokes, because I'm pretty sure it was before he died.

And so, it was very like making pedophile jokes was a thing when I was in middle school and it was all very Michael Jackson-inspired. So, I feel like that's where that comparison comes from probably. But what you said about Gene Wilder having emotions — I don't know, Gene Wilder legitimately freaked me out in the end of Willy Wonka. When he gets mad, he's actually scary in that one.

Audrey Leach:

I know, but he's good. I like him in that. I think his levity and like him when they first enter like the candy room, it beats Johnny Depp's version by a lot in my opinion. And it's more of a musical and that's the other reason I like it.

Hannah Leach:

Yeah, I was saying that too last night. Like all the songs in this movie are-

Audrey Leach:

Diegetic, they're diegetic.

Hannah Leach:

They're diegetic, they're diegetic, and they're non-diegetic in the other one. And also, just like pure imagination is like the banger of a generation that you just can't get past that.

But again, this is the whole thing: if you compare them, obviously one is better than the other, but I enjoyed this movie, but I'm spoiling what my opinions are. When did we first watch this? What do we remember? Okay. The reason why we're doing this movie is because this was a minivan movie. We had this movie in our little Apple box of DVDs.

So, we watched this movie so much that I remember sleeping over at Grandma Andy and Grandpa Gary's house and being super anxious trying to fall asleep. It was during my first era of sleep anxiety, and that I would close my eyes and watch this movie in my head as a means of calming down.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah, yeah. We watched it a lot and we watched the behind the scenes a lot too, which did teach me about filmmaking to some degree.

Hannah Leach:

I feel like the amount that we watched behind the scenes stuff of all the movies we loved when we were kids in the minivan, definitely made an impact on us. My favorite thing from the behind the scenes of this movie is that they show you that there are a ton of little robots of the Oompa-Loompas like all over the place.

Like in the boat that they take down the chocolate river, there are some shots where it's actually the guy, but a lot of them are just robots of him which is very unsettling but also pretty cool.

Audrey Leach:

It's just insane that anybody, any one human can get people to willingly give them millions upon millions of dollars to make something that is so incredibly nonsensical and kind of dumb. But I mean just that goes for all movies. It's just freaking crazy when you think about it.

Hannah Leach:

It's so interesting because like it is such a folly. Like there are so many people that need money to like survive. And yet, Tim Burton is getting millions of dollars to make 30 robots of Deep Roy. We've never talked about that.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. I mean there's lots of ways to combat that sentiment, but a lot of times, I do feel like it is true. It's like, well why don't we just like literally feed an entire country instead. It's because-

Hannah Leach:

Yeah, instead of-

Audrey Leach:

It's because this is a business, and you can look at it like any other business where you're asking “Why isn't any of these millionaires doing anything to help people with their money?” And it's because it's an investment.

But with film, it's such a risky investment that you kind of wonder like, “Why don't you invest in something that you know you won't be getting a return, but you know for a fact that you will help people?” And it's like, wow, because they don't care about helping people. Okay, question answered.

Hannah Leach:

Period, that is the answer. Alright, well this movie, where did you watch it?

Audrey Leach:

I watched it illegally, but I did watch it for free.

Hannah Leach:

You already know what I did.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah, I know because dad emailed me your receipt.

Hannah Leach:

He always says FYI ...

[Music Playing]

You can rent this movie on Apple TV or you can find it illegally online. You follow your bliss. I followed mine and we will see you after the break.

Hannah Leach:

Welcome back children, step into the factory because we're in the factory talking about what it was like watching 2005’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I already said this in the first half, but I just want to start this off by saying I enjoyed this movie so much more than I thought I would.

I was like, “I know I've seen it a million times.” I was like, “This is probably going to be way worse than I remembered.” But I chuckled several times and I hate to say it, but mostly at Johnny Depp's choices. I thought they were really funny. I think the kids' reactions were really funny.

I think the characterization was so specific to the point where even if people didn't like this movie when it came out, it made such a big impact on the culture of people our age. Like I think of that guy on TikTok who would dress up as the Johnny Depp, Willy Wonka like just stuff like that.

I have something more micro that I could say that's near the beginning. I think this is the only movie I've ever seen where Helena Bonham Carter is like styled to look warm and cozy instead of like gaunt and white.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. She never plays nice roles. This is like the most blah role she's like ever played.

Hannah Leach:

This is very much the Tim Burton is my partner and he puts me in everything role for this movie.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. Oh, so something that I remembered after this watch was that the whole thing of like replacing a factory worker with a machine is a concept that I did not know about. Like I did not know about this and how that it's an issue and it will continue to be an issue like in the economy, like that's like a real problem that we have.

Hannah Leach:

That leads me to ask the question of, well, it's really more of a statement. This movie has no regard for time period at all. Like when Mike Teavee is playing video games and they look that good, I'm like “I thought this was like in the fifties, but it's a little unclear now.”

Audrey Leach:

Like most of Tim Burton's movies are out of time. They'll look really fifties or eighties or whatever, but then they'll have modern appliances. Like there's just like things about it that don't add up. The technology never aligns with the visuals.

Hannah Leach:

Speaking of timeline, did you notice when Grandpa Joe is telling the backstory of Willy Wonka-

Audrey Leach:

Oh yeah-

Hannah Leach:

Which first of all-

Audrey Leach:

They don't age him down.

Hannah Leach:

Well, they don't age him down. But also, first of all, why did he wait to tell that story until that day if Charlie was building a scale model of the factory for what seems to be a very long time? But then second of all, when he’s telling the story and there's those like really unnecessary titles of like how many years ago it was, did you notice those?

Audrey Leach:

It was 20 years ago for that one. And I was like, “Okay.” So, basically, they put those there so that you can even understand it because they didn't put them there, it would look like yesterday.

Hannah Leach:

Okay. But he did just say I worked for him a long time ago. I felt like the titles were redundant. The 20 years ago wasn't that bad. But then the 15 years ago was really silly.

Audrey Leach:

I guess they had to do 20 years ago. Because you can tell that Willy Wonka's not that old but like you kind of want him the grandpa to be like in his twenties when this happened. But it can't be that because Willy Wonka's not that old.

Hannah Leach:

Yeah. Willy Wonka also exists out of time much like-

Audrey Leach:

That's what I'm saying. Like I feel like the grandpa should have been like 21 working in the factory and Willy Wonka should just look the same.

Hannah Leach:

Yes, I think it would've been cool too.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. It's like you cast young grandpa but you leave Johnny Depp exactly the same. Like I feel like that makes more sense than the opposite.

Hannah Leach:

Yes. A lot of my notes here are like really stupid nitpicky things. It's like stuff you see on Twitter or on Letterboxd where they're like, “Let me pick at this one tiny little thing.” Here's another nitpicky thing: Charlie finds the $10 bill on the ground. He goes and buys the chocolate bar.

He hands the guy $10 and gets the chocolate bar. Where's the change? They need that. First of all, surprised he didn't immediately run home and then have grandpa tell him to go buy another chocolate bar.

The morality there a little ambiguous, but he didn't get the change. So, I guess fuck his family. They didn't even get into the factory until like 35 minutes into the movie, which I was kind of surprised by.

Audrey Leach:

Oh, they need to, like they have to do all that setup. It's like too much to not explain. I mean really other than the fact that this movie isn't a musical, like a non-diegetic musical, the major difference here is that they have inserted an entire storyline with Willy Wonka's dad that is not in the original. I don't even know that I like it that much.

Hannah Leach:

Something interesting is that like a big selling point of this movie that Tim Burton would say and that other people attached to the project would say, is this one is focused on Charlie, the other one was focused on Willy Wonka, but then they make the like emotional heart of it about Willy Wonka, so-

Audrey Leach:

I would not agree with that statement. I get why they're saying it, but I would almost say it's the opposite after having watched. Because I don't give a single shit what happens to Charlie in this one.

Hannah Leach:

No, he doesn't have a personality.

Audrey Leach:

No. They give him nothing. They make him a child's support to a grown man. They have him come in and be like, “Do you want me to go with you?” First of all, why would he ever offer to go with this creepy ass man to his estranged father's house? It is like weird. It's I don't know.

I think that without Tim Burton's like visual whimsy and like the quirks and characteristics that he provides, this movie would be so bad. There would be no heart to it, I guess. I think I see the heart in in the humor and in the like visual whimsy more than anything else.

And I think that is his strong point. So, it's okay. I feel like my negativity is coming out a lot more than I even anticipated for this one. Even as a kid, like we would watch it a lot, but I can't really say I loved it. Like I didn't really like love watching it necessarily.

Hannah Leach:

Neither did I. I don't really know why we watched it so much. I think the truth is we might have just watched the special features a lot.

Audrey Leach:

I think because this movie's like so strongly gender neutral. Like this is a movie that any kid will probably want to watch because there's something in it for everyone. Like aesthetically and the cast is so big that we were like, “Yeah, let's watch that.”

I mean it's just brightly colored. There's candy. Like who doesn't enjoy that element? Seeing the candy room is like the highlight of the movie in both.

Hannah Leach:

I mean, that's like the whole concept of like a set piece that's like the set piece of the whole thing. So cool. It's also again really cool to see how they built it because they did actually build like all of the landscape and the fountain.

Like all of that was real too, which is really impressive and cool. That again, someone got paid to build all of that with some millionaires’ money and those were human jobs that can't really be replaced by a machine at least not yet. So, that's cool.

Audrey Leach:

You know how people are like making fun of buccal fat removal on Twitter?

Hannah Leach:

I was going to say the exact same thing but go ahead.

Audrey Leach:

It looks like Johnny Depp got buccal fat removal.

Hannah Leach:

Yes.

Audrey Leach:

In this movie.

Hannah Leach:

Willy Wonka was the blueprint for that.

Audrey Leach:

He's so overly snatched. I mean, I don't know how they got him to look so clean shaven. Like some shots, you can kind of see his five o'clock shadow, but most of them, he looks prepubescent.

Hannah Leach:

Yeah, I remember a big part of the thing when this movie came out was that he looked so unrecognizable that part of it was just the gag of him looking so different. Especially because he was in his Pirates of the Caribbean era where he looks basically like the opposite of Willy Wonka. So, the transformation was a part of the sell as well.

Audrey Leach:

But I would stay away from that man. I don't want him anywhere near me. Absolutely not.

Hannah Leach:

He's kind of someone you wouldn't want to see standing in your front yard, like looking up at your house.

Audrey Leach:

Terrifying. Literally terrifying. Like it's like almost horror worthy.

Hannah Leach:

I was going to say it very easily could have veered into that direction.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. Like I would rather see Edward Scissorhands than this guy.

Hannah Leach:

One thing we haven't gotten into yet either is the spectrum of things that have aged poorly. Some of it has aged poorly, but not that bad, and some of it has aged really bad. Honestly, the thing that I think has aged the worst was Mike Teavee just full out saying the R-slur while playing video games.

Audrey Leach:

I thought that was bad even at the time.

Hannah Leach:

I mean it was always like, “Oh, he's a piece of shit.” But it was like boys in middle school were still saying that at the time. Now, no one really says that. The Oompa-Loompa thing, honestly, feels more problematic in this one than it even did in the one from the seventies.

Because in the seventies, they were more like fantasy creatures. Whereas in this one, their whole origin is a lot more true to the source text. But in the original version of the book, the Oompa-Loompas were described as dark-skinned pigmies and then there was a bunch of backlash, and it was changed to like rosy cheeked dwarves.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. It's almost like I don't know which is worse. Like I think if anything, this movie's a little better just due to the fact that Deep Roy is casted in like most of his movies, has had a really illustrious career. Like he was not used and thrown away, I don't know. And he got to showcase so much like in terms of like singing-

Hannah Leach:

That is definitely true.

Audrey Leach:

And just like what an amazing opportunity.

[Clip Playing]

Voiceover:

“Even though like I can move, for this movie, I had to learn how to sing and dance.”

“We came and rehearsed him for about three months before we started shooting and teaching him things that he'd never really done before, you know.”

“Little Deep is doing an amazing job. I think he had the hardest job on the movie really.”

“He had to train as a mountaineer. He had to learn to cut hair.”

“Play maracas, playing bongos.”

“Doing palates in the morning.”

“Dive onto boxes like a stuntman.”

“There's so many different types of dance and instruments — we’re playing the gamelan.”

“He plays five parts in a rock band.”

[End of Clip]

Audrey Leach:

Well, from what I remember in the behind the scenes, he was like very much respected.

Hannah Leach:

I mean, he's really the star of the movie in a lot of ways. So, hopefully, he got paid a lot because he probably put in way more hours than anyone else making this movie, at least actors-wise.

Complaining about fat phobia in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory feels extremely stupid and like self-evident. So, I'm not really going to say much about what they actually say in the movie because you already know.

But all I will say is between the existence of Augustus and Dudley Dursley in our childhood, I feel very bad for fat boys that were our age. Like obviously, it's hard for fat people in general, but like there is such a specific vision of fat little boys in the stuff that we watched as kids, and there really isn't as much for fat little girls. I don't know if there's actually any.

So, I really … it makes me sad and honestly, it made me think of good children a little bit because they talk a lot about being that age and being like a fat kid. And it made me think about what their experience would've been like.

Audrey Leach:

There was no representation for that child. Which is that a good thing? No, but if there had been the representation, would it have been a good representation? No. So, it's almost better. It's like better just don't provide the shitty representation.

Whereas the little boys did get that shitty representation where it's like he's a bad person because he's fat. He's overindulgent especially in this movie. That’s literally-

Hannah Leach:

Gluttonous.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah. Like that is the point of the character. And each child is kind of representing like a sin in and why that sin should be condemned. And Charlie is perfect because he is shy and like doesn't say shit and like has no convictions. It's like, “Okay.”

Hannah Leach:

He has no personality, so he wins.

Audrey Leach:

He's poor. So, he's perfect. Like it's kind of strange. And the difference in the relationship between Wonka and Charlie in the original and in this movie is huge. Like I feel like I don't buy their relationship in this version at all.

Because they don't listen to each other and there's no bond. He's not perfect and they make Charlie perfect in this one. If he's going to be our protagonist, he has to make a mistake. He has to learn something. Like he doesn't learn anything.

Hannah Leach:

It's literally Willy Wonka learns the value of family through Charlie.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah, through Charlie which makes him the protagonist, which also is like, “Why did they change the name?” I guess I get why they had to change the name. Like they couldn't just name it the same thing again.

This version is more about Willy Wonka than the original. I mean, it's totally not about Charlie. He does not matter in this movie. He is the impetus to change in Willy Wonka's life. But he is not the protagonist.

Hannah Leach:

He's not the protagonist. He is the human call to action basically/at the beginning he's the main character, but then it changes very quickly.

Audrey Leach:

Yeah, it changes.

Hannah Leach:

What was the most appealing candy that you saw?

Audrey Leach:

Okay. I can't remember if it's actually this movie or the first one. But the one where there's like a … it's like this goopy thing they're like scooping into. Like there's something … do you know what I'm talking about?

Hannah Leach:

I think that's in the first one. But this speaks to an interesting point, which is I just started trying to think of what I found the most appealing in this movie. And there actually is not that much candy. You don't really see that much candy in this version.

Audrey Leach:

No, I mean they do a way better job and that's because the original film actually had a lot more edible candy on set than this one. Like you can tell that it's edible in those shots. And I think that makes a huge difference.

I can appreciate what they're going for with this super sleek, shiny, but it looks computer-generated or just not edible. Like the physical things just don't look edible compared to the first movie. There's some like cream, like whipped cream thing that looked so good in the first movie.

Hannah Leach:

Let's talk about what we think the message is and also why this is a story that people still want to see. Aren't they making a remake with Timothy Chalamet right now?

Audrey Leach:

Yeah, it's already been shot and it's a prequel, actually, not a remake. And it's like I'm pretty sure a musical because back when they were shooting, there was people in the country … I forget what country they were shooting in.

There were some people who were like in the area, who were like illegally filming him on set and stuff, like shooting the sequences and like there was playback. So, it definitely is … there are songs in it. I don't know that it is a full musical, but there are songs in it.

And personally, I don't want to hear him sing. Like I just know he can't sing. This is my La La Land issue. I think he's a great actor. I don't want to hear him sing. I don't want to see him dance even. I just don't.

Hannah Leach:

You just want to see him, yeah.

Audrey Leach:

I just want to see him look sad. I feel like this is one of those franchises where it's like I don't think there really is the demand for it. I think that from a business perspective, they can bet on it and feel good about that bet.

I don't think the demand really is there. If you like went on the street and started asking random people, “Do you want to see a Willy Wonka movie in 2024?” I don't think people would really say yes.

Hannah Leach:

I don't think so either. I think maybe part of it too is like not with the prequel obviously, but just in general. Like when you're a kid and you watch this movie and you see shitty little kids that may remind you of maybe one of your peers or one of your bullies, and you see them getting their just desserts, you're like, “Yeah, fuck that guy.” So maybe that's part of it.

Audrey Leach:

I don't get that. Because as a kid, even if the kid in the movie was being shitty, if they were put in harm's way, I was scared. Like I literally did not care who they were or how they were acting. I feel like I was always just like, “Why am I being shown this?” Kind of like even though I didn't watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as a kid, that movie is so scary.

Hannah Leach:

Oh, because of the-

Audrey Leach:

There's a literal child catcher who is scarier than I would say most horror movies today. Like it is just creepy.

Hannah Leach:

Whoa.

Audrey Leach:

It's funny when like kids are put in danger, in real danger in children's movies. It's not that I think that they shouldn't — like for example, Harry Potter.

To me, for some reason, that is an acceptable type of danger for the children because it feels like it has … it is the story, like that is the larger story being told versus like Chitty, it doesn't feel like it had to happen. I don't know. It's really soul-chilling. I almost would say don't watch it.

Hannah Leach:

No, I'm definitely going to and I will report back with my experience because I'm very curious.

Audrey Leach:

Creepy movie.

Hannah Leach:

The last thing I'll say, because I forgot to mention this about the kids, is that there's something really creepy to me about the growing. It feels fetishy in some way and I can't place why. Do you ever get those TikToks that are like, “Is this porn?”

Audrey Leach:

No.

Hannah Leach:

Or it'll be like someone like punching their hand into like a thing of like Play-Doh or like someone like icing a cake and then like dumping this stuff.

Audrey Leach:

You mean you're asking that question in your head?

Hannah Leach:

No, I'm not asking “Is this porn?” There's a woman whose whole TikTok is watching this really weird content and being like, “Is this fetish porn?” It is most of the time. And with the whole growing thing, I'm not saying that because it's children. I'm saying because of the creepiness and like the big assness of it all. And like the uncontrollable … I don't know. It just gives me bad vibes. I just don't like it.

Audrey Leach:

That is what TikTok will do to you. It'll plant things in your mind that you otherwise would not have thought about.

There's lots of things — not that specifically. But there's lots of things that I literally would never have thought of. And I think I'm honestly worse off. Like I don't think … I honestly don't know that TikTok is net good. I kind of think it's not, I think it's net bad because now everybody-

Hannah Leach:

Okay, that's the question for the culture for next week.

Audrey Leach:

I don't think we need to hear this many people's experiences.

Hannah Leach:

Well, that's the whole thing about the internet, that people always say we were not-

Audrey Leach:

We were not meant to hear-

Hannah Leach:

We are not evolved for this.

Audrey Leach:

These many people's experiences, it's not applicable. It's like we're so susceptible to stories that hearing so many conflicting and upsetting stories. And I feel like probably a lot of people who listen to this podcast and people like us in general, like our feeds have a lot of personal weight to them because we tend to connect to things where people are being … like saying their shit.

If my feed was like more light, I think it would feel less mentally taxing maybe. So, I don't know. Just watch … that's my message is stay off TikTok or just spend less time on it. Just limit it. Limit it to like a good 15 minutes.

Hannah Leach:

Yeah.

Audrey Leach:

That's all you need. Because any further than that-

Hannah Leach:

It's over for you.

Audrey Leach:

It's over. It's too much.

Hannah Leach:

I really enjoyed rewatching this movie. I thought that it was really funny. I'm not going to watch it again probably. I might watch some clips. I thought it was worth a rewatch though, personally.

Audrey Leach:

I think for our generation, it is worth a rewatch. Is it good? I would rather watch basically any Tim Burton movie from before this one. I would rather watch that than watch this or watch any Tim Burton movie from after this. Because he gets really hollow and it's just Corpse Bride is good. Yeah, I'd rather watch Edward Scissorhands, especially.

Hannah Leach:

Audrey, it's time to do the deed, if you will.

Audrey Leach:

Okay. You could find more from us at evergreenpodcast.com/sleepover-cinema and keep up with our latest creative projects at toopinkproductions.com. We're on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube at Sleepover Cinema and post a full video version of each episode on YouTube every Thursday. We are still not at a thousand subscribers. You can follow me, Audrey at Audrey Anna Leach on everything.

[Music Playing]

Hannah Leach:

And you can follow me, Hannah at Hannah Rae Leach on everything. And please join our Discord server at the link in our episode description or on evergreenpodcast.com.

We got custom sticker reactions this week due to a new member of the Discord who showed us the light and the way. So, now, you can make a comment and then react to someone else's comment with a picture of Lola Steppe or Aquamarine, which is what we all need in life.

Audrey Leach:

You can check out our merch at toopinkproductions.com/shop and we still have an active Casetify code 15SLEEPOVER.

Hannah Leach:

And if you like the show, send an episode to a friend, a family member, a coworker, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts if you're feeling generous.

Audrey Leach:

Sleepover Cinema is a production of Evergreen Podcasts, produced, edited, and engineered by us, Hannah and Audrey Leach. Sleepover Cinema is mixed by Sean Rule-Hoffman with theme music by Josh Perelman-Hall, executive producer is Michael DeAloia.

Hannah Leach:

See you next week, people.

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