Managers (Not) Gonna Manage

julie_sumner:

Welcome to our first episode of Wine with H. R. We are so excited to have you listening. Our goal with wine is to give our listeners, particularly our fellow H R practitioners a little levity over the crazy situations that can arise in the workplace, while also providing some helpful tips for how to handle those crazy situations.

trish:

Oh wait, Julie, I think you forgot to remember. we will be enjoying a glass of wine during our discussions, so we will be sharing what wines we were drinking and what we think of them for what that's worth. And we encourage you to

julie_sumner:

M.

trish:

also join us

julie_sumner:

M.

trish:

in a beverage of your choice. Sit back. laugh a little. I think some of you may recognize these situations as ones that deserve a good cry and enjoy the show.

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

I definitely didn't forget about the wine portion

trish:

just making

julie_sumner:

of the nitrite,

trish:

sure. I mean

julie_sumner:

But we'll get to that and just a second. So who are we anyway? And and why should you listen to anything we have to say? That's

trish:

Good

julie_sumner:

a.

trish:

question.

julie_sumner:

That's a fair question, so we'll tell you my name is. My name is Julie Sumner, but you can call me jewels. I am a recovering labor and employment attorney. I spent thirteen years litigating employment cases on behalf of employers, and at some point I became very frustrated with how reactive litigation is. By the time I got Case, all I could do was damage control, so I wanted to do something that was more pro active. So Six years ago almost seven, Already crazy, I started Monarch endeavors and Monarch endeavors. We help employers through their ship moments with their employees. So when you don't know what to do when you're like, I can't believe that just happened or when you're like. Oh shit, that's

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

when you call us. I'm thrilled that I get to work with My very best friends, Tricia. who will tell you about her background, But it's one of the joys of my life that our career sort of converged and we get to work together. So Tricia. you wanted to

trish:

Absolutely

julie_sumner:

say a little bit about yourself?

trish:

so. The very very funny part about all this is that Julien. I actually didn't even talk about going to law school. We both just ended up doing it. Hey, by the way, I'm going to law school. so I graduated in two thousand and three and said to myself, Oh good lord, I do not want to do this. I caught on early, but I still love the law and wanted to work with people, so no surprise, And then it ended up being a perfect match with H. R. So that is what I have been doing with my career and was absolutely thrilled when the timing and the stars aligned and Julie and I got to work together and trust me, you will be too Right during those.

julie_sumner:

We do know how

trish:

well,

julie_sumner:

to have

trish:

yeah,

julie_sumner:

a good time

trish:

yeah,

julie_sumner:

During all the moments, not

trish:

Truth,

julie_sumner:

just the ship ones.

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

Okay, so now let's get to it, Atricia. what are

trish:

Well,

julie_sumner:

you drinking?

trish:

I decided to go in a different route today because I think about all the time people walk into the store and they see the box wine and they're intimidated by it right there like Oh, I don't want to appear cheap, or Oh, would it taste any good? So I decided to go with the black box, which is one of I think the more popular choices, and it's their deep and dark cabin seven out of chilly, and it is described as having rich Roma of dark fruit with lingering notes of berry. and I, I

julie_sumner:

Well,

trish:

know right, I was like. that is a great description and it even says it has like gold medals and stuff, so I was super stoked and I have to say I'm actually quite impressed so so far first few sips I'm thinking way to go, black box. What about you jewels? What are you doing?

julie_sumner:

Nice, I'm being

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

a little fancy.

trish:

fabulous

julie_sumner:

No press there.

trish:

right.

julie_sumner:

You know, you know, I love my

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

Italian

trish:

yes,

julie_sumner:

reds, so I am drinking a an Italian red called Lekelther, which

trish:

Yes,

julie_sumner:

sounds French to me, But what Eve? It's Na Rosa, and it is from the denamntzn, the gin

trish:

Listen to that pronunciation.

julie_sumner:

controlata, and so Right, I know, my doo lingo lessons are paying off. so even though I have taken Italian lessons for like six hundred and forty five days

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

straight, I cannot read this label, so I have no idea what it says about anything. It is from the year twenty fifteen, and I have to say upon first sip it is

trish:

Excellent.

julie_sumner:

lovely.

trish:

how do they describe it? Just out of curiosity.

julie_sumner:

Ah,

trish:

Oh,

julie_sumner:

they don't. That's

trish:

oh

julie_sumner:

what I'm

trish:

right.

julie_sumner:

saying. It's all in Italian.

trish:

I can't read a darn

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

thing.

julie_sumner:

can't read it.

trish:

Do a lingo.

julie_sumner:

I know

trish:

If you're listening, Please step it up. We need to be able to describe or

julie_sumner:

Right,

trish:

understand our wines.

julie_sumner:

right, Yeah, I know. I mean, it says red wine, So that's about all I got for you, but it's very nice. it's It's a dryer ine. It's whatever the heck, mouth, Know it when I Okay, So at this point in the program we want to shift to the w. h. i n of the show

trish:

It's a good thing

julie_sumner:

where

trish:

we're

julie_sumner:

we

trish:

doing

julie_sumner:

strive

trish:

a podcast

julie_sumner:

to take

trish:

on

julie_sumner:

the

trish:

H. R. not

julie_sumner:

H

trish:

on

julie_sumner:

out

trish:

wine

julie_sumner:

of the wine and provide you with some helpful solutions. So trice what's today's topic?

trish:

Fan. Love it All right, So I think this is a perfect topic for our first podcast. We are talking about a universal problem, managers not managing their people, Julian. I always say most managers are promoted because they're great at their jobs right, But not because

julie_sumner:

Well, Yeah,

trish:

they

julie_sumner:

you know,

trish:

are

julie_sumner:

it's

trish:

great

julie_sumner:

kind of

trish:

at

julie_sumner:

twofold.

trish:

people

julie_sumner:

As you

trish:

management.

julie_sumner:

said, They're promoted because they're

trish:

There's

julie_sumner:

good at their job,

trish:

There's

julie_sumner:

not because

trish:

a

julie_sumner:

they're

trish:

definite

julie_sumner:

good at

trish:

disconnect,

julie_sumner:

managing people,

trish:

and that might

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

be

julie_sumner:

then

trish:

because

julie_sumner:

oftentimes

trish:

they're not comfortable

julie_sumner:

employers

trish:

in their role.

julie_sumner:

don't take the

trish:

Maybe

julie_sumner:

time

trish:

they're

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

not

julie_sumner:

train

trish:

Confident.

julie_sumner:

them or give them

trish:

Maybe

julie_sumner:

the resources

trish:

they just

julie_sumner:

or the tools

trish:

really

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

don't know

julie_sumner:

actually

trish:

what to do.

julie_sumner:

learn how to manage people,

trish:

so Julie.

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

I think

julie_sumner:

then they're

trish:

you know

julie_sumner:

never

trish:

why

julie_sumner:

held accountable.

trish:

they don't know what

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

to do.

julie_sumner:

it's this vicious cycle where you have a manager who doesn't know what they're doing. They don't do it very well, and then they're not held accountable for it. So it just Its perpetuating itself. So rich in your experience, what has poor management looked like? Give us a couple of examples.

trish:

Yeah, Well,

julie_sumner:

Hm.

trish:

Let me see. I would say it manifests itself in a couple of ways. The first one is the Mighway or the highway manager, you know it, The one that's like a dictator. If you don't do it the way I'm telling you, it's not going to be right no matter what, Even if your ideas are the best right, and then we have exactly the opposite. The manager who wants to stay buddies Right, they're promoted. They've been friends with these people All of this time, and they don't have that separation

julie_sumner:

Absolutely

trish:

between, like

julie_sumner:

yeah,

trish:

being

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

then

trish:

boss

julie_sumner:

oftentimes you

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

have

trish:

being the buddy or the

julie_sumner:

what

trish:

friend,

julie_sumner:

results is that

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

something

trish:

then

julie_sumner:

comes

trish:

maybe

julie_sumner:

up

trish:

somewhere in

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

the middle,

julie_sumner:

the manager not

trish:

right,

julie_sumner:

knowing

trish:

So

julie_sumner:

what to

trish:

we

julie_sumner:

do,

trish:

have

julie_sumner:

just

trish:

those

julie_sumner:

closes

trish:

like I

julie_sumner:

his

trish:

said

julie_sumner:

or

trish:

before

julie_sumner:

her eyes,

trish:

that are really

julie_sumner:

maybe

trish:

good

julie_sumner:

sings himself a

trish:

at

julie_sumner:

little

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

ditty

trish:

project management,

julie_sumner:

and then

trish:

but they

julie_sumner:

hopes

trish:

just

julie_sumner:

it just

trish:

they

julie_sumner:

goes

trish:

really

julie_sumner:

away

trish:

truly don't know what to do

julie_sumner:

right.

trish:

when it comes

julie_sumner:

Cross

trish:

to the

julie_sumner:

your

trish:

people

julie_sumner:

fingers.

trish:

management.

julie_sumner:

Yeah, but that rarely ever works. and sooner or later that's when we get the call right. So yeah, so are there some common examples of again? Sort of what

trish:

Usually,

julie_sumner:

it looks

trish:

that's

julie_sumner:

like when

trish:

what

julie_sumner:

it

trish:

we

julie_sumner:

shows

trish:

see.

julie_sumner:

up

trish:

cross

julie_sumner:

in the workplace

trish:

your fingers, close your eyes.

julie_sumner:

that you would say, tric.

trish:

Yes, I would say all of the time, I would say the first one that comes to my mind. Probably managers that don't hold their employes accountable for slacking off like Okay, I'm going to leave two hours early and then the next day they come into work and there's no repercussions. Now this like seriously, is a true story from

julie_sumner:

And then all the rest

trish:

a

julie_sumner:

of

trish:

restaurant

julie_sumner:

the employes

trish:

where

julie_sumner:

are

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

like

trish:

used to work

julie_sumner:

Well,

trish:

right.

julie_sumner:

I might as

trish:

It

julie_sumner:

well

trish:

just

julie_sumner:

leave early

trish:

completely happened all the

julie_sumner:

or

trish:

time

julie_sumner:

not

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

show

trish:

you're kind

julie_sumner:

up

trish:

of going.

julie_sumner:

it

trish:

How

julie_sumner:

because

trish:

is this possible?

julie_sumner:

nothing happens.

trish:

And then later

julie_sumner:

so

trish:

the management Manager

julie_sumner:

yeah,

trish:

gets upset

julie_sumner:

yeah,

trish:

because

julie_sumner:

absolutely.

trish:

someone's

julie_sumner:

that's

trish:

late

julie_sumner:

a bad

trish:

and they're

julie_sumner:

one.

trish:

like. Well, I've done this, you know,

julie_sumner:

Another

trish:

or leaves

julie_sumner:

one

trish:

early.

julie_sumner:

is

trish:

Well, I've done

julie_sumner:

that

trish:

this

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

for

julie_sumner:

hear

trish:

the last

julie_sumner:

all the

trish:

two

julie_sumner:

time

trish:

months,

julie_sumner:

and I heard it just again this week

trish:

so there's no consistency

julie_sumner:

from one of my clients. Is well, we can't live without this person, so we can't take any action. We can't hold

trish:

Right.

julie_sumner:

them accountable. We can't fire them. We can't discipline them because they might quit,

trish:

What's

julie_sumner:

because

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

we

trish:

point?

julie_sumner:

can't do without them.

trish:

Yeah?

julie_sumner:

And my response to that always is, can you continue to do with this person Because the impact of having somebody continually on the joined in that environment could

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

create some significant risk for the company. so I had a situation recently where that sort of thing happened. There was a particular employee who had a habit of making offensive remarks to people in the workplace and every Got away with it, because again he was, you know, in their eyes, crucial to the job. Yeah, yeah, and so they didn't want to do anything about it, so they didn't And then a complaint came forward. Now In that particular complaint, there really wasn't any merit. There weren't any offensive for derogatory comments made, but the problem is a couple of weeks later he

trish:

High

julie_sumner:

got fired

trish:

producer.

julie_sumner:

for making another offensive comment and then where Like Okay, Well, now we have to settle this other thing because nobody's going to believe that he didn't make a comment in just this one situation right, they're all going to think Well, Yeah, has a habit of this, so of course he said it so people don't understand. Like a lot of times managers don't understand the greater impact

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

when they

trish:

my

julie_sumner:

let

trish:

gosh,

julie_sumner:

people get away with bad behavior.

trish:

Right,

julie_sumner:

Absolutely. Yep.

trish:

Absolutely, and not even just the impact of what it could mean for them financially, you're getting

julie_sumner:

Thought

trish:

drawn

julie_sumner:

I was

trish:

into

julie_sumner:

being

trish:

a

julie_sumner:

more

trish:

court

julie_sumner:

subtle

trish:

battle.

julie_sumner:

than

trish:

But

julie_sumner:

that,

trish:

what about

julie_sumner:

but

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

nobody

trish:

toxicity

julie_sumner:

already need to refill.

trish:

right? I mean, all I can think about is like the the complaints I hear all the time, which

julie_sumner:

You

trish:

is,

julie_sumner:

know.

trish:

there's so much toxicity. My manager lets him get away with this or her. Let. I could hear you pour in your wine.

julie_sumner:

Okay, Yeah,

trish:

No, well, it is won with H. R. I think you're okay this time.

julie_sumner:

M,

trish:

Oh,

julie_sumner:

hm,

trish:

speaking of toxicity, The way way way I got another one. What about allowing your the personality conflict to

julie_sumner:

Yep,

trish:

fester Like the manager is so uncomfortable. And and

julie_sumner:

Absolutely,

trish:

I get it right, Everybody,

julie_sumner:

absolutely.

trish:

it seems

julie_sumner:

yeah.

trish:

conflict

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

avoidant.

julie_sumner:

and it's

trish:

They

julie_sumner:

you

trish:

don't

julie_sumner:

know it could

trish:

want

julie_sumner:

all

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

be

trish:

deal

julie_sumner:

solved.

trish:

Conflict, so they let it go

julie_sumner:

Yeah, it

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

could

trish:

they

julie_sumner:

all

trish:

let

julie_sumner:

be

trish:

it

julie_sumner:

solved

trish:

go, and

julie_sumner:

by

trish:

then its snowballs. and where it was involving

julie_sumner:

sitting

trish:

two

julie_sumner:

down

trish:

people.

julie_sumner:

with the employes

trish:

Now

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

it's

julie_sumner:

having

trish:

involving

julie_sumner:

a conversation

trish:

the whole department,

julie_sumner:

with them. But to your

trish:

and you're

julie_sumner:

point,

trish:

watching your productivity

julie_sumner:

the length

trish:

go

julie_sumner:

I have seen

trish:

down

julie_sumner:

people

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

go

trish:

tank

julie_sumner:

to do not have a conversation

trish:

Exactly.

julie_sumner:

is truly a merit. Amazing, you know, like these people could run a marathon

trish:

So that's that's

julie_sumner:

in

trish:

probably

julie_sumner:

the amount

trish:

one of the biggest.

julie_sumner:

of time and length that they went to to avoid a conversation.

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

Right

julie_sumner:

okay, so so we have sort of an idea of what it looks like

trish:

To avoid.

julie_sumner:

in the workplace, But let's

trish:

Oh, my

julie_sumner:

shift

trish:

goodness,

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

Yes,

julie_sumner:

what do we do about it? How do we help people? The good news. The good news is that there are several things that an employer can do

trish:

And

julie_sumner:

or

trish:

probably

julie_sumner:

that H R can

trish:

easier.

julie_sumner:

do.

trish:

right.

julie_sumner:

One of the first things that I recommend is

trish:

M.

julie_sumner:

before you promote somebody,

trish:

yeah,

julie_sumner:

you sit them down and explain to them what that actually means. right.

trish:

M.

julie_sumner:

Yeah, yeah,

trish:

Wow,

julie_sumner:

like exactly. Yeah. Well, right, because that's what typically happens right, it's like Hey, congratulations, you've been promoted. Here's your new salary. Have fun. Uh, right, and we don't talk about. This means that you might

trish:

You

julie_sumner:

actually

trish:

mean like

julie_sumner:

have

trish:

actually

julie_sumner:

to discipline

trish:

managing

julie_sumner:

your friends.

trish:

their people?

julie_sumner:

This means

trish:

It's

julie_sumner:

that

trish:

not

julie_sumner:

you

trish:

just

julie_sumner:

have

trish:

a title

julie_sumner:

to hold

trish:

change,

julie_sumner:

people accountable. This means that you have to find a way

trish:

Right

julie_sumner:

to delegate your work so that you

trish:

right

julie_sumner:

can actually manage the whole team And the whole project. And I think if we had

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

those

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

conversations

trish:

right?

julie_sumner:

with people some people number one would recognize. Not for me, don't want it. And that's a good thing, right, or they would at least understand what they're walking into and be better prepared for it.

trish:

Right? Yes, Fully agree. I mean. seriously. one of the things that I I try to talk to our clients about is look we, as h, r, managers, or as H are anything. We have those people's skills right. But our skills can be taught.

julie_sumner:

Absolutely.

trish:

We can teach our

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

managers

julie_sumner:

what does that training

trish:

those

julie_sumner:

look

trish:

skills,

julie_sumner:

like? Tricia?

trish:

and the sooner you do it, the better off your company is going to be, the better off that manager is going to be, and the more successful they're going to be as an imp. I mean, that's the biggest thing right. We don't want to set our managers up to fail. and that's what we are doing if we're not giving them this training. So for me, I think some of the top ones team building

julie_sumner:

Hm,

trish:

right. I think working with teams. that's one of the most important thing is how do you get your team to work together? How do you get them to start creating those bonds? I mean, we are post Covid and we always joke, but it's actually serious thing that people have forgotten to human, like how to human, and so giving them that training On creating more deep lasting relationships, We're not talking about

julie_sumner:

Absolutely,

trish:

being best friends. We're talking

julie_sumner:

yeah,

trish:

about deep lasting relationships

julie_sumner:

yeah,

trish:

in the workplace, but they make an absolute difference or

julie_sumner:

Absolutely, and

trish:

we've

julie_sumner:

some,

trish:

Are you already mentioned?

julie_sumner:

Yeah.

trish:

Like how

julie_sumner:

And sometimes

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

it can

trish:

work

julie_sumner:

be

trish:

with

julie_sumner:

a bridge

trish:

personality

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

conflicts

julie_sumner:

a greater

trish:

from the manage

julie_sumner:

understanding

trish:

management

julie_sumner:

that can lead

trish:

perspective,

julie_sumner:

to a better relationship.

trish:

But

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

what

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

about

julie_sumner:

was just

trish:

when

julie_sumner:

having

trish:

it comes

julie_sumner:

lunch with

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

somebody today,

trish:

employ to employ?

julie_sumner:

who shared with me that

trish:

You

julie_sumner:

one

trish:

know

julie_sumner:

of he is a leader in his

trish:

conflict

julie_sumner:

company,

trish:

can be productive

julie_sumner:

and he

trish:

if it's Done

julie_sumner:

you know, had

trish:

properly,

julie_sumner:

a new person come in and that person

trish:

so I

julie_sumner:

came

trish:

would

julie_sumner:

in

trish:

say

julie_sumner:

with

trish:

that,

julie_sumner:

some preconceived notions that for whatever reason that he didn't want her there and she reported to him and so it It

trish:

Absolutely

julie_sumner:

right from the get go, he kind of noticed something was off, but he's like we're new. We're still figuring each other out. you know, I'll let it go for a little while, and then it became apparent that there was some sort of issue, you know, so he said, You know, it took me a moment to think. Hey, I need to be the bigger person here. I'm the manager. he asked to speak with her. They sat down. he said, there's clearly some tension going on. You know what, From your perspective is happening, and

trish:

Yeah.

julie_sumner:

she shared that she felt Like. For whatever reason, I think some people had been

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

whispering

trish:

no,

julie_sumner:

in her ear. You know that he didn't want her there, and he was able to then clear up that mis perception and say like no. That's not it at all. You know. here's the truth and then they. They worked together wonderfully now, But so just having that right right

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

Right right

trish:

Yeah.

julie_sumner:

Absolutely. And that's what

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

management

trish:

love that

julie_sumner:

is.

trish:

from

julie_sumner:

You

trish:

your

julie_sumner:

know. it's

trish:

perspective

julie_sumner:

It's recognizing that

trish:

like

julie_sumner:

something

trish:

that's such

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is

trish:

a

julie_sumner:

going

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great

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on

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wording

julie_sumner:

and trying

trish:

from your

julie_sumner:

to get to

trish:

perspective.

julie_sumner:

the bottom of

trish:

And

julie_sumner:

it.

trish:

Versus

julie_sumner:

but sometimes you've got

trish:

what,

julie_sumner:

to check your

trish:

what's

julie_sumner:

ego,

trish:

going on or what

julie_sumner:

check

trish:

are you

julie_sumner:

your

trish:

accusing

julie_sumner:

defensiveness

trish:

me of or something like

julie_sumner:

and be

trish:

that,

julie_sumner:

willing

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it's

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

such

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just

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an open

julie_sumner:

have a

trish:

ended

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conversation

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conversation that

julie_sumner:

and be

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leads

julie_sumner:

willing to

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

be

trish:

that

julie_sumner:

like,

trish:

kind

julie_sumner:

told

trish:

of healing

julie_sumner:

that you're not doing things

trish:

relationship

julie_sumner:

right.

trish:

that you're talking about.

julie_sumner:

you know.

trish:

Ah, Right, honestly, some of my favorite managers are the ones who have come to me, especially when they recently get promoted and they say to me like,

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

Look, this

julie_sumner:

absolutely

trish:

is where

julie_sumner:

yeah.

trish:

I will succeed. This

julie_sumner:

yeah.

trish:

is

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

where

julie_sumner:

then the other thing

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

is being

trish:

feel

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willing

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like

julie_sumner:

to

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I

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say

trish:

am

julie_sumner:

like

trish:

the strongest.

julie_sumner:

you screwed up or you didn't handle

trish:

Where

julie_sumner:

something

trish:

where

julie_sumner:

well,

trish:

do you

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

feel

julie_sumner:

like

trish:

like

julie_sumner:

I know,

trish:

you're strong? Will

julie_sumner:

Now

trish:

our skills

julie_sumner:

you know,

trish:

compliment each

julie_sumner:

Atricia.

trish:

other?

julie_sumner:

You and

trish:

Is

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

it

julie_sumner:

just

trish:

possible

julie_sumner:

worked together

trish:

that you

julie_sumner:

as

trish:

can

julie_sumner:

partners,

trish:

lift me

julie_sumner:

but

trish:

up and even

julie_sumner:

we've

trish:

teach

julie_sumner:

both

trish:

me?

julie_sumner:

done it to each

trish:

And

julie_sumner:

other.

trish:

when

julie_sumner:

I've

trish:

managers

julie_sumner:

come to you and

trish:

have

julie_sumner:

been

trish:

said

julie_sumner:

like, Yeah,

trish:

that

julie_sumner:

I didn't

trish:

to

julie_sumner:

handle

trish:

me

julie_sumner:

that very

trish:

immediately,

julie_sumner:

well.

trish:

I'm

julie_sumner:

you know,

trish:

like

julie_sumner:

I'm

trish:

all

julie_sumner:

really

trish:

in.

julie_sumner:

sorry about that.

trish:

I mean that's

julie_sumner:

I will.

trish:

me, But

julie_sumner:

I will do better,

trish:

I love that. Totally Yes, that is true. Oh yeah. Well, and and I think that's

julie_sumner:

Right.

trish:

one of the reasons why

julie_sumner:

Hm,

trish:

it's so easy for us to tell people that this is effective is because we've both experienced

julie_sumner:

Absolutely,

trish:

it ourselves right. I've

julie_sumner:

yep,

trish:

messed up and come back to you.

julie_sumner:

right

trish:

You've messed up. Come back to

julie_sumner:

right.

trish:

me. We've done it with other

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

relationships,

julie_sumner:

I hadn't

trish:

both

julie_sumner:

planned

trish:

professional

julie_sumner:

on sharing

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

this,

trish:

personal.

julie_sumner:

But

trish:

I mean

julie_sumner:

so

trish:

everything

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

we're

julie_sumner:

was

trish:

talking about.

julie_sumner:

in

trish:

It's not just

julie_sumner:

my

trish:

about

julie_sumner:

ten

trish:

in

julie_sumner:

thousand

trish:

the workplace, right, it's everywhere,

julie_sumner:

small businesses

trish:

so

julie_sumner:

program

trish:

it makes

julie_sumner:

yesterday

trish:

a big difference

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

being

julie_sumner:

I had

trish:

willing

julie_sumner:

like an

trish:

to be

julie_sumner:

a

trish:

a little

julie_sumner:

moment

trish:

bit vulnerable

julie_sumner:

so we were talking about

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

building

trish:

admit

julie_sumner:

a

trish:

that

julie_sumner:

culture

trish:

you're wrong.

julie_sumner:

for a team or

trish:

So

julie_sumner:

a company,

trish:

what? So what you're wrong?

julie_sumner:

And

trish:

Big deal

julie_sumner:

one of the things

trish:

in move

julie_sumner:

they asked

trish:

forward.

julie_sumner:

us about was what are some characteristics of your family culture And the one that Pet into my head and tritill, get this is that my sisters and I are always so concerned about making sure that we're not hurting the other person that were being fair that were looking out for everybody else's feelings, that we often don't express how we truly feel Because we're so worried

trish:

Hm.

julie_sumner:

about making sure everybody else is okay. All of us do it. And then they said Okay. So what do you do in your business? Like what is your Or one of your styles or one of your weaknesses? And I was like Holy crap. It's the same exact thing like like, sometimes sometimes I

trish:

M.

julie_sumner:

Right right, So

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

like it's so it was really interesting for me to see like. Oh, my gosh, this does go all the way back to my upbringing, you know, and I think that it's important

trish:

Wait,

julie_sumner:

for

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

people

trish:

can

julie_sumner:

to

trish:

attest

julie_sumner:

recognize

trish:

to that

julie_sumner:

that sort

trish:

you

julie_sumner:

of

trish:

are

julie_sumner:

thing,

trish:

so

julie_sumner:

because as a manager, you

trish:

so

julie_sumner:

do

trish:

good

julie_sumner:

to your point

trish:

about

julie_sumner:

that

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

you've

trish:

soft

julie_sumner:

made Tricia.

trish:

approach.

julie_sumner:

you do bring your whole self to work. And

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

so you bring how you are with your family. You bring how you are with your immediate family,

trish:

Wow,

julie_sumner:

with your siblings, with your parents, With with everybody in your outside life, you bring that in all of its baggage, good or into the work place with you, and it's typically how you end up managing your people,

trish:

M.

julie_sumner:

and if there are weaknesses in one area,

trish:

Absolutely

julie_sumner:

they're probably likely showing up in the workplace as well.

trish:

Yeah. Oh,

julie_sumner:

We.

trish:

M. Hm,

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

And

julie_sumner:

Yeah, there's

trish:

okay, So

julie_sumner:

no. there's

trish:

this is

julie_sumner:

no

trish:

making

julie_sumner:

connection

trish:

so much.

julie_sumner:

there.

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

None.

trish:

am cracking

julie_sumner:

now.

trish:

up right now. I mean growing up with two people that are in, like the social work psychology industry. Does it make any sense

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

to you that I'm always talking about the touchy

julie_sumner:

Cheers.

trish:

feely building relationships

julie_sumner:

I know I

trish:

being

julie_sumner:

know.

trish:

kind, expressing yourself being honest. Yeah, so that makes sense. not at all. not

julie_sumner:

Okay,

trish:

at all.

julie_sumner:

so

trish:

Wow,

julie_sumner:

the last

trish:

that's

julie_sumner:

point

trish:

really

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

cool.

julie_sumner:

want to make about

trish:

All right.

julie_sumner:

what

trish:

See you

julie_sumner:

H

trish:

learned

julie_sumner:

R professionals

trish:

something every

julie_sumner:

can

trish:

day.

julie_sumner:

do

trish:

I haven't learned

julie_sumner:

getting

trish:

anything

julie_sumner:

a little bit

trish:

yet.

julie_sumner:

back

trish:

That's

julie_sumner:

on track,

trish:

my name And for

julie_sumner:

is

trish:

today, thank

julie_sumner:

there's

trish:

you very

julie_sumner:

got

trish:

much

julie_sumner:

to be

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

a way to hold

trish:

cheers.

julie_sumner:

managers accountable,

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

feel like we need to be clinking

julie_sumner:

one of the things

trish:

glasses.

julie_sumner:

that I know you and I have

trish:

but

julie_sumner:

both seen is

trish:

all

julie_sumner:

that

trish:

right

julie_sumner:

even

trish:

it's hard.

julie_sumner:

in

trish:

Oh, they are perfect.

julie_sumner:

like the performance evaluation process, there's no

trish:

Oh,

julie_sumner:

way to hold managers accountable for how they're managing their people. It's usually not even on the evaluation anywhere. there's quality

trish:

Oh yeah.

julie_sumner:

control Right, Yes, there's quality control. there's productivity. there's

trish:

M,

julie_sumner:

safety. there's you know, all these other things, sales, whatever the metric may be, but there's nothing for. Oh hey, I managed to make seven people leave, because such a ranical awful manager,

trish:

Which

julie_sumner:

you

trish:

is

julie_sumner:

know,

trish:

ridiculous.

julie_sumner:

and there should be something, and there should be rewards for the people who are doing it really well, Absolutely

trish:

Oh no, yeah, Absolutely. I think that we need to set the expectations about what

julie_sumner:

Right,

trish:

we want to see from

julie_sumner:

right,

trish:

our managers

julie_sumner:

right,

trish:

from behavioral standpoint, Right, we need to have those

julie_sumner:

Right,

trish:

as part of.

julie_sumner:

right,

trish:

I mean, everybody has this code of ethics, or

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

eat those or

julie_sumner:

no,

trish:

things

julie_sumner:

it's

trish:

that

julie_sumner:

so

trish:

they

julie_sumner:

true.

trish:

say.

julie_sumner:

it's so true.

trish:

These

julie_sumner:

I

trish:

are

julie_sumner:

tell

trish:

what

julie_sumner:

people

trish:

we value.

julie_sumner:

that all the time

trish:

But

julie_sumner:

you know,

trish:

if you

julie_sumner:

I'll

trish:

truly

julie_sumner:

ask a company.

trish:

value those,

julie_sumner:

Okay, So you

trish:

why

julie_sumner:

have core values.

trish:

aren't they

julie_sumner:

Everybody

trish:

part of your

julie_sumner:

does.

trish:

performance management process, especially

julie_sumner:

How do you use

trish:

for

julie_sumner:

them?

trish:

your managers?

julie_sumner:

You know, do they

trish:

Like,

julie_sumner:

just sit on

trish:

Are

julie_sumner:

your

trish:

you

julie_sumner:

website

trish:

kid me?

julie_sumner:

as

trish:

Do

julie_sumner:

a

trish:

you

julie_sumner:

pretty

trish:

really

julie_sumner:

little

trish:

value

julie_sumner:

thing for

trish:

this?

julie_sumner:

people to read,

trish:

That's

julie_sumner:

or

trish:

my biggest.

julie_sumner:

are they

trish:

That's actually

julie_sumner:

actually

trish:

one of my

julie_sumner:

things

trish:

top.

julie_sumner:

that you live

trish:

like.

julie_sumner:

and breathe,

trish:

Oh,

julie_sumner:

And do

trish:

drives

julie_sumner:

you,

trish:

me crazy.

julie_sumner:

to your point, evaluate people based on how they're

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

living or breathing. Those core values,

trish:

Yeah,

h,

trish:

Go ahead, So Julie, before we get into accountability, I need to refill to So

julie_sumner:

What an excuse. Okay. Oh,

trish:

Right?

julie_sumner:

my God,

trish:

Did you

julie_sumner:

yours

trish:

hear

julie_sumner:

as

trish:

it?

julie_sumner:

yours was louder than mine.

trish:

It is out of a box After all,

julie_sumner:

Hey, there are a

trish:

By

julie_sumner:

lot

trish:

the

julie_sumner:

of pork.

trish:

way. Go ahead.

julie_sumner:

Oh, I was going to say there's a lot of perks to boxed wine because you get a lot

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

more out of each box and you don't have to worry about it spoiling before you can drink the rest. Although

trish:

Well,

julie_sumner:

I know you

trish:

that's

julie_sumner:

don't

trish:

exactly.

julie_sumner:

have that problem.

trish:

I mean. I pretend that's the reason I get it, so don't tell any. Oh wait, wait, we're on a podcastshoot.

julie_sumner:

Yeah, well,

trish:

I was going

julie_sumner:

whatever,

trish:

to say, I pretend that's the reason I get it, but I have to say I know people can't see this, but Julie. thank you for my beautiful Monarch Endeavors glass with my name on it. I feel like really cool as I'm sitting here drinking my box wine. Thank you.

julie_sumner:

Sam,

trish:

so

julie_sumner:

you're welcome.

trish:

all right, I'm sorry I got us off Accountability.

julie_sumner:

Yes, accountability. Okay, so that was my last tip. Is that you have to find a way the whole managers accountable for actually managing their people. I cannot tell you the amount of clients I have worked with where it's nowhere on the evaluation for Mat, or the performance evaluation process for a manager, and their whole job is to manage people. But there are markers for quality control. There's markers for safety for productivity for sales, for even For all of those types of things, but nothing for how you manage your people, So you could lose eight or nine people be cause, you're a tyrannical, a hole, you know,

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

and never were gone. Consequences and that's not

trish:

Right,

julie_sumner:

right, and on the

trish:

no,

julie_sumner:

flip side, if you've got somebody who's really really good and has brought a lot of people up, train them up, made them into really good employes. who are loyal and doing all the things you need them to do. That person should be rewarded, but so off, And it's not even a facet of what is going on

trish:

It does really amaze me when we start working with a new client and we talk to them about these things that they say that are so important to them. These are our core values. these are, this is our athos. This is what we truly believe in and then we go. Oh, wait a minute. You mean you're your employees. When we ask them, didn't even know what these were. So how are you living these? How are you holding your managers accountable for this? Why are these behaviorals? as as S. H. R. People like to call them. Why are they not on your on your performance management? It is ridiculous to me.

julie_sumner:

Absolutely

trish:

Yeah, all right, Did I just go

julie_sumner:

So

trish:

down a

julie_sumner:

true.

trish:

rabbit hole there?

julie_sumner:

No, No, but you led to one of our future topics which is talking about those core values and how you can use them to actually hold people accountable, even employes not just managers, but so we'll get into that and another podcast. But a lot of times people think that there has to be a specific policy to somebody's behavior or action in order to discipline them or to terminate them, or whatever the case may be, And oftentimes

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

you can rely on those core values if you actually live and breathe them so again, Tap it for another day. but

trish:

Right

julie_sumner:

we'll get there

trish:

and

julie_sumner:

and hopefully

trish:

actually live and

julie_sumner:

you'll

trish:

breathe

julie_sumner:

all

trish:

them.

julie_sumner:

come back

trish:

I mean,

julie_sumner:

right. yes, yes, yes,

trish:

let's talk about that importance like right.

julie_sumner:

Right, absolutely absolutely so. hopefully you guy as well join us for that conversation. Um, However, so now we want to do as we're nearing the end, Because we don't want to talk your ears off on the very first episode. We want to circle back and find out how the wine is tasting. So tricihow is your wine tasting?

trish:

Well, absolutely lovely as everyone heard me refilling my glass. I apologize. I think that might have sounded a little creepy,

julie_sumner:

Uh,

trish:

but truly I don't know. By the way your reaction, I was like. Oh my goodness, but wait a minute, Julie. Can I do one more thing before we start talking about

julie_sumner:

Worst,

trish:

our wine?

julie_sumner:

of

trish:

All right,

julie_sumner:

course,

trish:

So the one thing that I think we would be really remiss, not to mention is our manager boot camp and shameless

julie_sumner:

Yes,

trish:

play Seriously. All right, So so you all, Julie and I both teach courses regarding Hrgeneralist and internal investigations. We both go into companies. We have lots of clients, and the one thing, the one underlying thing, and the reason this has become our first episode is because we always hear complaints about managers. Oh, my manager did this, my manager did that. Oh, hey,

julie_sumner:

Hm,

trish:

Tris Had a manager tell my employe that they should not take F. l, but go out on short term disability for their pregnancy leave, because it won't reflect negatively on their performance valuation. Like I almost

julie_sumner:

La,

trish:

died,

julie_sumner:

la, la.

trish:

right right? That's exactly so. So this so all right. So the whole point of me sharing all this is that this is what led Julie and I to create our manager boot camp. And it's the reason I think most of you will resonate so much with this podcast is because we were talking about at least this this first episode So far, Hopefully you're you're going to be with us for many more. But like this is the reason we came up with the boot camp Because we,

julie_sumner:

Hm,

trish:

our managers bless them. bless them right. A part of it. Hey, I'll take fault. Maybe we're not training them enough right,

julie_sumner:

Right.

trish:

But that's what the manager boot camps about, So

julie_sumner:

Yep,

trish:

we'll talk more about that. I think there's going to be a leak in the link in the description. later, right

julie_sumner:

A leak, a leak, a link.

trish:

leak?

julie_sumner:

whatever,

trish:

A leak were

julie_sumner:

Yes,

trish:

leaking.

julie_sumner:

yes,

trish:

were

julie_sumner:

yes,

trish:

dripping

julie_sumner:

yes,

trish:

on you

julie_sumner:

yes,

trish:

right now,

julie_sumner:

Okay, now that's creepy. So H

trish:

Right all

julie_sumner:

r.

trish:

right?

julie_sumner:

red leg? Okay? Okay, all right, So how's your wine? How's your wine?

trish:

Apparently very good because we're now leaking rather than linking

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

now. I'm actually really impressed by this. I think I will definitely get it again.

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

Great for travel. like if you're going off to, you know, going on vacation, you want to take something with you and easy travel.

julie_sumner:

I am loving this wine and I hope that there is another bottle or two downstairs in the wine face because

trish:

Yeah,

julie_sumner:

it is. It is very delightful so I'm very happy about that.

trish:

Well, please reserve one for me when I come to see you soon,

julie_sumner:

Yes, Yes, okay, so summing up today are three top tips for you are to set the expectations when somebody becomes a manager. provide

trish:

Please,

julie_sumner:

them with the right training and the tools to actually manage their people, and third, hold them accountable. if you

trish:

And

julie_sumner:

do

trish:

not

julie_sumner:

those

trish:

just

julie_sumner:

three

trish:

your

julie_sumner:

things. Yea, if you do those three things, you're way ahead of the game.

trish:

Way ahead and not just your managers. Everybody right, hold them accountable.

julie_sumner:

M. Yes, it's accountability is a huge one. again.

trish:

Yes,

julie_sumner:

another topic for another day.

trish:

inconsistency can. let's talk about consistently enforcing things in the future To please.

julie_sumner:

Yes, Yes, we will. There's so many topics. Nd list

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

and

trish:

gosh,

julie_sumner:

list epics, We're going to need

trish:

I'm

julie_sumner:

a lot of wine.

trish:

Yes, we will, and we'll get to try all new kinds.

julie_sumner:

Yeah,

trish:

What I want to know is, I'm hoping hoping some of the people listening went from w h. I, ending right to

julie_sumner:

Hm,

trish:

laughing with us.

julie_sumner:

Absolutely, and so to those of you who are listening, we invite you to tell us our contact info is going to be in the information section. Tell us what you what topics you want to hear about. We'll be happy to do that. and also, if you want us to try a particular wine, send it to us.

trish:

Oh

julie_sumner:

We'll get

trish:

great

julie_sumner:

it. We'll

trish:

idea.

julie_sumner:

try it. It'll be awesome and tell us what

trish:

I

julie_sumner:

you're

trish:

love

julie_sumner:

drinking

trish:

that

julie_sumner:

or what you're thinking.

trish:

red white rose. any kind,

julie_sumner:

Absolutely absolutely All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this first episode. We hope that you will continue to join us on further episodes, and until then we'll catch you next time, and we hope that your days contain far more wine, the drinkable kind than wine. The makes me want to drink, kind

trish:

Cheers.

julie_sumner:

Cheers.

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