417- Premarital Counseling with Tirzah Stein of NearlyWed Coaching

Leah Haslage:

Hello, Chillas. Welcome to the Bridechilla podcast, where we celebrate love and help you plan your wedding day. I'm your host, Leah Haslage, and I'm thrilled to be here with you. Whether you're just starting to plan or counting down the days, we're here to help you stay calm, cool, and collected throughout the wedding journey. We've got amazing guests and expert tips for you, so let's get this wedding party started and embrace your inner bridechilla!

Hey, chillas, I am so excited today for our guest, Tirzah Stein, who is the owner and creator of NearlyWed Coaching. And this is such an important topic, right? We're talking about you and your partner today, not just about wedding planning, but about how to navigate your actual relationship. So Tirzah, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so excited to finally see you. So tell us a little bit about yourself and about NearlyWed Coaching.

Tirzah Stein:

Well, not to make this a super long story, so I'll keep it a little bit brief, but my background's in social work, so I was a social worker for 10 years in trauma work, primarily domestic violence. And I was working in residential shelters and things like that for most of my career. And so I got really burnt out with that, and I wanted to be in a happier place in people's lives instead of the darkest place of their lives. And so I found myself wanting to start a business, and I got married in 2019 to my wife, Lauren, and going through that process, like a lot of things came up during the wedding planning and the stress and the overwhelm, and I was like, oh my goodness, this is, I wish we had someone to talk to from the emotional side.

And so I decided to start my business with wedding coaching, which is supporting nearly-weds through the emotional stuff that we are all dealing with, but there's not a lot of support or we're not talking about those things necessarily. And so I started with that service to support people to have a really meaningful, conscious wedding, to talk through important things together, how to connect as a couple, how to really work through some of those things that might be coming up, like expectations, boundaries with family, pressure, overwhelm, stress, anxiety, like you name it, right?

Leah Haslage

There's a lot

Tirzah Stein

Yeah like everyone has gotten married it's like yes that that's happened.

Leah Haslage

And that's before you even get to your future like this is just the wedding part.

Exactly, and it's probably one of the biggest things you're going through together as a couple. There are a lot of complicated dynamics that arise and sometimes you end up having some conflict with you and your partner as well. And so how do you navigate through that when you have different opinions or different things matter to you or maybe one person is doing the bulk of the planning and the other person is kind of taking a back seat and then resentment builds or all sorts of things might be showing up.

Leah Haslage:

And we'll get deeper into it, but money is the number one thing with couples, but it's a huge thing with wedding planning.

Tirzah Stein:

Oh my gosh, what do we spend money on? Where are we getting the money from? Like the list goes on. I mean, money is a huge thing and we all have different relationships with our comfortability with money and what we spend it on and how much we spend. And we all know weddings are expensive. And so that is a huge topic. So I started with wedding coaching and then through that process because it's such a new service that people don't necessarily know they need yet. It kind of fell into place for me to also include premarital coaching.

And the difference with wedding coaching and premarital coaching is wedding coaching is under the umbrella of the wedding planning process. So what's coming up is you're going through that journey together, whereas premarital coaching is a focus on your relationship in general. And what you want to strengthen and fine-tune and have support around and talk through as you are entering into this big next chapter in your lives as a married couple. And so that's something that I have added on as well.

And then I'm lastly an officiant because it just kind of made sense to be part of that process for everybody. help people make their ceremony really meaningful and special and have a lot of thought around it because it is what the wedding is all about. But oftentimes, I think in our society, we have this messaging that it's not about the wedding and it's not about the ceremony piece. It's about the party and all the other things and being the host and making sure everyone's happy and all this versus like, what are we all here for? It's for your commitment to each other. So let's put intention into your ceremony. So those are my three services.

Lastly, I'm also an inclusivity consultant in the wedding industry because we are a very heteronormative industry with work to be made to support queer and early weds, to help them feel seen and affirmed and celebrated. So I support other wedding professionals to increase their inclusivity efforts to make the space within the wedding industry more accessible and supportive of queer folks.

Leah Haslage:

I love that. Did you find that you and your wife dealt with some of that struggle when beginning that process and with counseling and everything?

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah. We had some experiences that weren't always super positive when it came to being like a queer couple navigating the wedding industry. There was just a lot of assumptions around bride and groom and those kinds of things. Like we would even do a discovery call with a vendor. They knew who we were. They saw we were two women and then they would send us a proposal that says bride groom. We're like, okay. So we had some of those experiences. We also had some really positive experiences.

But I definitely would say we could have thought more intentionally about what are the things that we really want to focus on in our relationship as we go through this process. I remember just feeling this immediate feeling that I was entered into some kind of amazing race, like racing against every other person getting married at the same time, like everything just felt so much like a checklist. And my biggest wish for myself if I could turn back time and for my wife would be that we just slowed down instead of just feeling like we had to just get stuff done and check it off the list and then move on to the next. So yes, I definitely could have used my own services. That's why I was like, I'm gonna become the person I wish I had.

Leah Haslage:

I love it, and you know, I complimented your earrings when we first got on the call. Like, I love your heart earrings if you're listening to the podcast. Beautiful, like, long heart drop. But like, it just shows like you lead with love. And I love that. So with premarital counseling, how early should a couple start doing that?

Leah Haslage

I don't think there's an answer to that.

Tirzah Stein

Like before engagement, as soon as you're engaged, just kind of...

Leah Haslage

Yeah, I mean it typically would be after you're engaged, right?

Tirzah Stein:

Because then you're starting to think about, okay, this is the step we're taking. You're kind of in a different mindset and there might be a specific type of time frame around that. Like maybe you're engaged and you're like, we know for sure we're getting married next year or we want to be engaged for three years or we want to get married tomorrow. Those are different things. So it's really up to that couple. But I would definitely say premarital coaching falls within that specific time in your life when you're engaged. And it doesn't have to be like, we got engaged, we need to do the work immediately. I also feel like another problem in our society is that we just don't enjoy being engaged. This is a really beautiful time and like it feels like it gets so much taken over by the wedding planning process that you don't even get to just be like we're fiancés like we have new titles we have rings on our finger like

Leah Haslage

It's a new level of commitment.

Tirzah Stein

Exactly and just like celebrate and chill for a bit it's okay.

Leah Haslage

The wedding will happen. It will be there.

Tirzah Stein

Myself, personally, I was literally talking to vendors the night of my engagement party. Like, what was I doing?

Leah Haslage:

Yeah, it's that whole amazing race mentality, though, because, like, especially if you want to get married on a weekend, which is very typical, right? It's a Friday or Saturday, generally. There's only so many weekends in a year, and there's X amount of couples getting married. And so, like, if you don't get that venue when you want to get married, I mean, that already is the domino effect.

Tirzah Stein:

And then it starts off the whole process with this idea of like I need to rush and do it immediately Otherwise, I'm gonna lose out on the thing. I want and what is the thing you want though? That's my biggest piece of advice is take the time to figure out. What is it that you actually want? Where do you want to get married? There's so many decisions to make, so for the couple to get really clear on that together is so important before you start making all these decisions, because then you might be making decisions that aren't super aligned with you at the end of the day, but you don't realize that in the moment, because you're just trying to get it done.

Leah Haslage:

Well, and your budget, which again, we'll get into later on in this, because we're going to build up to the heavier stuff. That sets in motion too, because if you have these lofty ideas, and I hate to say lofty, but let's be real here, sometimes it can be, because you get caught up in what you dreamt of as a young child. Pinterest and Instagram effect like, you know, celebrity weddings like all those kind of like get into your brain at certain points and then of course family because family always will get in your head.

Tirzah Stein:

Yes and they have a lot of opinions sometimes.

Leah Haslage:

A lot of opinions. Before we get into family opinions because again it's a big one. What do you do, though, if you know you want to go into premarital counseling, but you have a partner that either completely flat out refuses or is reluctant?

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah, that's a really good question. I have definitely experienced that with folks reaching out to me being like, my partner's not really sure they're into this kind of thing. I don't think it's good to push or force your partner into something that maybe they're not comfortable with. I think, again, this comes back to some stigma in our society around getting that support and help. I think with something that can be a different approach, with the premarital coaching is that it's not couples therapy. Couples therapy is amazing. If you want that support, you should do it. I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that for people who have that idea that I don't need therapy or I don't need that. There's nothing our relationship isn't in that level of like a crisis. It's more coaching. This is a little bit more casual. This is a short period of time. It's task oriented. It's focused on like what do you want to accomplish? What are your main goals? How can we talk and really just like dig into those things immediately within this period of time?

And then, you know, we're not here to kind of throw anybody under the bus or to make anybody feel like they're not being seen or heard. I always try to let people know that this is about you as a couple, and so you're each going to have time to really talk and share about what you're experiencing. It's not about putting one person, you know, you're you get to have all the time. So I also think that it's important for them to like, make that decision for themselves and get there. You don't want to force your partner into that because I don't think that's gonna be productive.

However, I think there's some things I would suggest when I have that situation come up would be just try and be open mind for one session. Let's just try and if you feel really uncomfortable with it still and it's not your thing, and you don't see any value in it we don't have to move forward. I also offer sessions individually to start. Sometimes it's needed if there's kind of like a lot more tension going on in the relationship. I will offer to speak to each person individually just to start so they have that full freedom to just, like, Let it all out with me and I get to hear from both of them and so it's we start on an equal footing to start with. It's not like one person gets that and one person doesn't. And sometimes that could help a reluctant partner warm up. I think it's a lot about them feeling comfortable with me. me personally.

So whether it's me or anyone they're working with, I think you need to feel that comfortability and that trust with someone. And so building that rapport is really important. Like I'm not here to, you know, attack you. We're not here to gang up on you. Like this is really going to benefit your relationship. What do you want to get out of it? What are the things that are bothering you about your person? Like, yeah, let's talk it through. And so I think sometimes those more reluctant people can warm up, but I definitely don't think they should be pushed into it. They just need to be able to see the value and what they can get out of this and how it's going to benefit their relationship and make their whole relationship probably happier at the end of the day.

Leah Haslage:

But if one partner finds it so important to them, like this really means a lot to me, but the other partner is like, nope, not doing it, not entertaining it. How do you reconcile that as the partner that wants to go?

Tirzah Stein:

I think in that situation It's like that's kind of what you're going to counseling for as how do you compromise? how do you understand where your person's coming from and why this is so important for them and and really being able to be a little bit flexible at times. We can't be so rigid all the time and flat out refuse something. It's like, I always say, can you give it a try? Like, can you see the value and why this is so important to your person? If they flat out refuse, like, I mean, you can't drag them in and force them to do it.

I mean, I have had some folks who were like, you can clearly tell one person does not wanna be there. It's like, you have to be willing to do the work. to make change. You can seek that service out yourself. Like, you can't force your person, but there is definitely therapy for you and that support where you can have that conversation. It's not necessarily the same thing if your person's not involved, but you can definitely talk those things through. And you know, sometimes through premarital coaching, you might discover, like, actually, I don't think we're compatible.

Leah Haslage:

How often do you see that and how do you navigate it if you are feeling that way?

Tirzah Stein:

I think that it's not necessarily super common, but it's definitely happened. One of my first couples broke up in front of me on screen. I later heard back from one of them. There was a lot of incompatibilities about what they wanted and their idea of marriage. At the time, they just wanted to make it work so badly, and sitting back as a third-party person, I'm kind of sitting there like, I'm not sure. I mean, if you want to, you'd have to really figure out how to make this work.

Leah Haslage:

Do you think people just get too comfortable, and that's why they try to keep something that they know isn't working?

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah, because it's really scary to think about calling off a wedding, to think about how if you have, you probably have a lot intertangled together with children, finances, whatever it might be, community, family, friends, like it's a really hard decision. Also, you still love that person. It's not that that love isn't there still, right? And so you want to convince yourself that like, this will change, we'll figure it out. Especially coming from a background in domestic violence, like, let me tell you, I've heard all of the things about that. So it's really complicated.

So I don't want to sit here and say, like, oh, you should just break up. You know, like, what's the big deal? It's complicated. It's hard. But I will say, these two were able to realize, like, there isn't a path forward for us. I think that was a catalyst for them to wake up to the situation. Instead of kind of have their heads buried in the sand on it because, you know, it was definitely something they could have just gone through the motions, gotten married, and then they're having to divorce rather than just, you know, breaking up. So it's harder.

Leah Haslage:

I mean, it can be easy to do that, especially if you are not one for conflict, if you're dealing with a partner that stonewalls. family pressures, like my friend Jessica Bishop of Budget Savvy Bride and the Bouquet Toss podcast, we were talking about this because, you know, we were both divorced and in the wedding space, and all these conversations were coming up, and she put it the best. She said, it's like you're on this high-speed train, and you don't know how to get off. And it's exactly how it can feel when you have all this going on at one time, and you're realizing your partner's probably not your partner, but you don't know what to do, like you're scared. And it's okay like no one's judging you so like we're here to support you if you're going through this, if you're questioning things like you are totally normal it's completely normal. It's not always cold feet either sometimes it's just harsh reality and you don't want to face it

Tirzah Stein:

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think being able to just kind of come to terms with some things for yourself is where you start. You have to understand, like, what am I really feeling and experiencing? Instead of ignoring those things, which can be really easy to do is like getting in touch with what is really happening internally for me right now. So focus like it starts with yourself.

Leah Haslage:

So what are some of the biggest issues you see couples dealing with? throughout the counseling process?

Tirzah Stein:

Great question. Number one is always communication because communication is at the foundation of relationships and that shows up in so many different ways. And so if that communication is a little bit ineffective or maybe unhealthy at times, that will impact so many areas of the relationship. And so the number one thing is communication, different communication styles, how they learned to communicate from their families because that's a really interesting conversation that sometimes we don't connect.

Like, my partner's like this and I'm like this okay but why like where does this come from? What did you learn from your family unit growing up? How might that be different from your partners? How are you managing when things get to that boiling point? There's reactions, there's defense mechanisms coming up, and maybe you aren't handling that as well as you could or don't have the tools to know how to work through. A lot of the times I hear people just like, how did you resolve the conflict? Oh, we just moved on.

Leah Haslage:

But it's still there. It's still there. It's gonna bubble up in a different way.

Tirzah Stein:

Yes, exactly.

Leah Haslage:

It's the whole, like, what's the dirty dishes analogy? Like, you fight over the dirty dish, but it's not about the dish.

Tirzah Stein:

It's never about the dish.

Leah Haslage:

It's about what happened a year ago and you've been holding on to it. Like, it's just volcanoing.

Tirzah Stein:

It's usually a pattern. It's usually a pattern that we find ourselves in, and I can personally speak on it being married. We all have patterns in our relationships that we are a part of contributing to, and so understanding what that pattern is is really important because otherwise we just keep repeating it. It could be about the dishes. It could be about not picking the kid up from school. It could be about something really silly, right? You didn't comment when I got my hair cut, whatever it is, but it's a pattern. And so it's understanding what's actually going on below the surface here, and then how can we rewire some of those things and put in preventative measures in there so that we're changing this pattern of behavior. So that's kind of an answer to a different question, but I would say back to your original question, a lot of other issues could be intimacy, finances, family planning, extended family is one people don't often think about. There are families outside of like their unit. How are we navigating? There's a lot of stuff that comes up there when you're married, because you marry each other's families, and you have in-laws, and there's all sorts of dynamics. This is probably one of the most common topics, is when you are in your own family unit, like I grew up in a specific family with a specific culture, we're Jewish, we're loud, we ask really personal questions, we want to dig deep in all things, and my wife's from the South, where you don't talk about your personal issues. You don't ask questions. You don't do that. And so we are navigating those things when she's interacting. And we're also biracial. And we have a biracial child in an interracial relationship. And so it's like so many things are coming up in that. And in my work with couples, that's a huge topic. You're used to your way with your family. And then your person's thrown into a family dynamic that they're like, whoa. What is going on here? And that comes back again to what you learned about communication and how maybe you have one person in a relationship who's like, yeah, that's just how my mom is. And the other person is like, no, this isn't healthy. And so how do you navigate those things together? And then also one of those, some of those logistical things are like, how are you spending your holidays? Your family's expectations of you and how are you really just like working through that in your relationship? So that's a pretty big topic that people don't often consider or think about.

Leah Haslage:

What do you do if a partner isn't willing to compromise on things? Like it's, you mentioned rigid before with something and like, what if someone's more rigid than the other and isn't willing to compromise?

Tirzah Stein:

I think that compromising is part of what you're working through in the coaching. Yeah. Because you have to compromise in relationship. You're not on a single island by yourself. I think of a lot of times what happens in relationship. I know it happens in mine. We fall into these pits all the time. It's like we're against each other. We're on separate islands. I'm trying to get over there. Well, no, I'm trying to get over there Well, I don't push you off the raft so I can get your or cuz I need to get over there And it's gonna be like no we're a team It's a constant reminder that we're a team. How do we function as a team to achieve a common goal? Because this is something that is going to be best for us as a whole, that we're both trying to get to versus like fighting against each other, seeing each other as a barrier to getting there. that needs to be pushed out of the way versus like we can toggle this together. How do we best do that? And it does require being flexible at times. It does require compromise. And it requires a lot of time. Our person is there to reflect a mirror to ourselves about the things that we need to work on. Yeah, all need to work on something. And we're not perfect. And it's really a beautiful thing when you're in a safe relationship where there's emotional safety where you can fall at times and you can not be your best self. Because we have that right as humans, we're gonna show up in our lower selves or in a way that's like, these are some of the darker things about me and things I'm working on. And your person can hold that space for you to be like, Hey, I didn't like how you just talked to me that didn't feel good. And being like, Oh, yeah, let me like, think about that for myself, what can I work on? And I think that if you can grow individually and together with support from the other person in a safe space that you don't feel like you're being attacked, you don't feel like, oh, I'm getting nagged, but just these are the areas that we each can really work on and improve in to make us better as individuals and as a couple.

Leah Haslage:

I'm so glad you're saying that because I do think that, and this is something I more recently learned from finally being in a healthy relationship, Even though a relationship can be going really well and can be healthy, the best relationships still bring up triggers. I worked on being secure, but I do still have anxious attachment and like something can be said or done that can just flare it up. And then you kind of can go on a spiral without even realizing it. And so I think it is important to point out that it is normal to still have triggers and that even the healthiest and safest of relationships. It's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows all the fucking time. Like, I'm sorry. It's not.

Tirzah Stein:

And that's not the goal. The goal is not to be like, we're always happy. We never fight. That's not a real relationship. It's not about the fact that you're not going to fight or have disagreements or disappoint each other or upset each other or hurt each other at times. It's about how you recover. How do you repair? How do you work through those moments? The more that you can create that space for each other to be able to be heard because the number one thing I think that creates cycles of fighting where you can't get out of it is that you just want to be right and you just want to talk and you're not listening. You have to listen to each other and to really be able to reflect back to each other Oh, this is what you're feeling in this moment. Me saying this created this trigger within you from your childhood, let's say. That makes sense to me why you would react the way you did. I'm so sorry. I don't want you to feel that way. Let's work on how we can be better. Versus like, oh, I'm sorry that you're mad.

Leah Haslage:

Right. That's the empty words. Those are empty words. You can say I'm sorry, but are you?

Tirzah Stein:

But what are you sorry for? And if you don't know what you're really sorry for, then you're not really meeting and attuning to your partner in that moment, and it goes both ways. Like, for you to feel that you can be heard, you also have to be willing to do that for your person. There's a tool I can jump in on this if you want me to, because I know you're curious about tools. So one tool that I probably use the most is the active listening tool. And it's really simple, but it's very, very effective. And I'm still in my relationship working on this too.

So basically, I think the biggest thing is that when you're in those really high tension moments, it's like you have blinders on and you just just rage. And you just see rad, right? And so it's about like, how do you create space. Sometimes you might need to implement something where we have a code word. It's like you come up with a word, whatever you want it to be, and this word just you automatically know this word means we need a second. The biggest thing is that you come back to each other because you don't want it to be where we can't deal with this. You go, I'm just gonna leave, I'm gonna go, and then the other person's just sitting there like, when are they coming back? Are we okay? This feels horrible.

Leah Haslage:

And if you're anxious attachment, it's that much worse.

Tirzah Stein:

Oh, oh, for sure. For sure. It's so scary. You're like, am I being abandoned right now? Is this person coming back? Are we breaking up? So that's not healthy. But if you can have an agreement when you're not in a heightened state, when you're in a good, stable, solid place, you can be like, what do we want to do in the future when we get into the red zone together? And then how do we want to agree what that looks like? So maybe it's this word, and what does that word mean? It means that we are going to go into separate spaces for 15 minutes, and when that 15 minutes is up, we can calm down whatever that person, maybe one person needs to go on a walk, maybe another person needs to take a cold shower, whatever it is. And then you come back and you're like, I think we're a little bit more de-escalated now. Let's talk through what happened.

And then the biggest thing is this tool of really, how do you actually listen to each other? And so what I suggest is that you set a timer for a minute or two minutes, whatever you agree upon, and one person gets to talk without being interrupted at all. And they get to say, this is what happened for me, this is why this upset me, whatever it might be, and the other person listens. And the number one thing about this is you're not supposed to interrupt, but you also have to think about your facial expression. When you have those triggers, you just immediately feel like you're back in that place of that 12-year-old kid or whatever it might be when you were being reprimanded because you made a mistake as a child or whatever it is that has that trigger point for you. And sometimes it's hard to kind of see the difference in that moment. from your partner that like, oh, this isn't my parent reprimanding me, right? Yeah, so being able to be mindful of like, if I was going to give you a pop quiz on what your person just told you, can you get an A? So it's about really thinking about like, I am here to just provide that space and listen.

Then, you reflect back. The reflecting back might sound silly, like, oh, that is just a waste of time. Obviously, they know, I mean, they said it, I hear them. No, we need to repeat it back. Because we are so used to thinking in our brains, our rebuttal, what we're gonna say in response. Like, our minds are in there doing all the things. And so, it's about really clearing your mind from you're not in court. You're not presenting your defense next. Just listen and then reflect back. This is what I'm hearing you say that would XYZ happen. It created this trigger for you because of this and this is something that I did to create that for you. Whatever it is. And then you say, is that right? And then the person who just spoke gets to reflect back to them and say, you know, you got it. I feel heard. Thank you.

Or you got most of it, but you're still missing a few things that I think are really important for you to hear. okay, let's go back and then they tell you those things again. Then you switch once you feel you've been heard and then the other person gets that exact same experience. And then after you're done, you're like, okay, I think we get it. But then the next step is now what? So what do we do from here? And I think a lot of times what's nice to do is talk about, okay, maybe we worked through this. What's really below the surface versus just the thing that triggered the cycle? And then what can we do better next time? What can we do maybe where we are? The cycle, you could think of the cycle as like, here's the fight cycle and it lasts. this long. How do we make it just a little bit shorter next time, where we can respond with a little bit more compassion, kindness? The hardest thing is our reactions. We can be very, like, reactive.

Leah Haslage:

Especially if we think we are right, but we don't want to hear what the partner has to say, because then that makes—that's the shame, right? Like, oh, I messed up. And that's really hard to hear.

Tirzah Stein:

And I think having the compassion for your person when they do hurt you for whatever reason, to understand that you can't hold it against them, right? So like letting it go because once you feel like they understood what they did or whatever, we don't want to shame them. We don't want to guilt them. We don't want to hold that resentment towards them. Just being like, thank you for understanding. Let's work on this moving forward. I can release and let go, because when we hold on so tightly, we don't want to have that scorecard against each other. Well, you did this, this, this, and this, and this. It's like, it's okay. Let it go.

Leah Haslage:

Right. The scorecard, that's such a perfect analogy of it, because I think some people just naturally, unintentionally, I did this this time, you can do this this time, or you've hurt me X times, I don't think I've hurt you at all, which isn't technically true. They're just not communicating it.

Tirzah Stein:

Yes, like trust that your person can grow. Trust that you can grow. They can grow. Help each other.

Leah Haslage:

We'll be right back after a quick break. You brought the childhood affecting you and parental. But a lot of past relationships can affect you moving forward as well. And I know your background's with domestic violence. I'm a survivor of narcissistic abuse as well as other abuses, unfortunately. And I've done personally a lot of work to try to not bring it into my family. future relationships, but not perfect. So if one of the members of the couple has been through traumatic experiences, abuse, abusive relationships, maybe even both, how do you help them to navigate for their partner? Because that's, you know, again, with trust, right? Cause I haven't broken before and there's a lot of pain, especially if there's sexual assault, physical assault, verbal does not get enough attention. I mean, um, how do you help a couple navigate going through healing together because you don't have to be fully healed. I think that's another misconception. You can heal in a safe relationship.

Tirzah Stein:

Absolutely. I think the biggest thing is creating that safety, that emotional safety. So really understanding, like, what do I need to feel safe in this relationship? And being able to ask for that. It's like, you have to do the work yourself. So the number one thing is therapy, right? You've been doing it. It's so important to really have that individual therapy. I think if both people in a relationship can have individual therapy, it helps the relationship overall so much. Because it starts with me. I can't expect my person to understand my trauma if I don't understand my trauma. So I have to unpack it. I have to heal it within myself and understand what I went through to reconcile some of that because it can be really easy to push it down to a very low place that you just don't ever access again. But then it boils up in other ways and shows up in your relationship in a way that your partner is not going to understand. Something, quick trigger response, and they're like, whoa, I just moved the thing. And so I think it starts with understanding what is happening for me so that I can communicate it to my person so that they understand what that looks like. So for example, I'll use my own relationship. I was in a more toxic abusive relationship before my wife. It wasn't abusive physically at all. So to your point, it was a lot of emotional abuse. I felt like I was just shrinking to a smaller person and the thing that's interesting about it is that I was working as a domestic violence social worker at the time and I had like I did not connect the dots for myself at all until much later when I went through therapy and I was like oh my god.

Leah Haslage:

It's also gradual, right? It's a gradual emotional emotional mental abuse is subtle. It starts off in little things and then before you know it Like you said, you're shrinking yourself. You're isolated from family and friends. Yes. You dim your light.

Tirzah Stein:

So many things that you experience in abusive relationships. I don't want to just speak like saying this is what happened to me. But you know, manipulation, like you said, the isolation, there can be a lot of like, narcissism with that person to where like, they take up all this space, and then you just become smaller and smaller. It's your fault. And you start to internalize that messaging. Like, oh, I am bad. Oh, I am wrong. So to bring it full circle back to what I wanted to share is that in that relationship, I felt like nothing I ever did was good enough. And I get really triggered by that in my current relationship. and it's hard because my wife is very particular and she likes things a certain way and so she triggers that in me and it's not her fault that's who she is and so it's accepting who she is but it's also something that like was really hard for me at first in the relationship when I felt like I was being told like oh no that that shouldn't be and it's like small things you know like that shouldn't be clean that way. Those things that we deal with every day in a relationship.

But I had to really understand why am I getting so mad at her? I am not handling this well and I'm exploding and I'm reacting and I'm just feeling this immediate feeling of I'm back in this place where I'm not good enough and nothing I do is ever going to be good enough for this person. which isn't my wife. So it's not fair to her to treat her like she's the person in my past relationship. But it's also something that I have the responsibility for. I have to be able to understand, oh, this is why and this is where this is coming from for me, so that I can let her in on it. And now she's like, I get to explain this is my past. I think sometimes we have this notion that we shouldn't talk about our past relationships and new relationships. Right. Which makes no sense to me.

Leah Haslage:

Let's debunk this. Don't go on and on about your ex, but you do need to bring up, especially if there's a hard situation, you do need to say, hey, just so you know, like I did go through this. Just so you have a heads up.

Tirzah Stein:

It's so important. My wife had a really hard breakup before me where she was cheated on. I needed to know all of that because those were going to be things that were going to show up and they showed up in the most random ways that she didn't even realize they would later on in our relationship. And because I knew her past trauma, I was able to also help her connect the dots. Hey, babe, you think this might be related to what you went through? And she was like, Oh, yeah, probably. Okay, this isn't about me doing something like or you being jealous or whatever it is. This is coming from this place. Like, let's heal it together. Let's talk about it. Let's just create space for it. Because those things don't just go away. They don't just disappear from us because we enter into a new relationship. Right. And so I think it's so important to let each other in so that we can navigate those situations with so much more love and compassion and kindness when they happen and not take it as personal as maybe we would otherwise.

Leah Haslage:

It can help bond you too. It can help you bond and grow in your relationship because you're being there for each other. You're being a supportive, loving partner, which I think everyone is seeking, right, at the end of the day. So speaking of things that don't go away, let's talk money. Because money is such a big part of this with not only the wedding planning process, but for the rest of your life. So how do you talk to couples about where they stand financially and how to navigate that? Because someone might be an overspender or someone's a super saver. Money is a funny thing.

Tirzah Stein:

We all have a relationship with it, and it rules our lives and our world, unfortunately. And so I think that it's understanding, like, what's my relationship to money? Kind of a similar conversation around what was my communication style growing up. So what was my family's relationship to money? People can grow up in very different socioeconomic backgrounds. Some people come up in poverty. They don't have anything. They had to work for everything they ever got. Or maybe someone else grew up in a family where they had financial wealth in their family. They were given things that they maybe wouldn't have gotten otherwise. They have maybe a different mentality around how you spend money. And so I think it comes back again to let's have these deeper conversations. You can fight. on a surface level about well we shouldn't spend this but i don't think well i want a savings well i don't you know but what where are you coming from and why and letting each other into like that and i think it's an interesting process to have with ourselves First, what is my relationship to money? Does it make me uncomfortable? Do I like talking about it?

It's interesting, me and my sister, we grew up in the same household and we still have very different ideas. She just loves talking about money and she thinks it's so interesting and I get so uncomfortable. I'm like, I don't want to talk about money. And so it's like, understanding that for yourself and then have those conversations with each other. Like, what do I feel about it? And then when you're marrying each other, your finances become each other's in a lot of ways. You might be bringing on your partner's debt. You might be bringing up student loans, whatever it is. And so you have to be honest and open with each other. That's my advice. Put it all out on the table. Let them know. You don't want to hide anything from each other because you're... It comes out anyways. It's going to come out anyways.

And then I think the next big conversation with money when you're entering into marriage is what are we going to do? What does this look like? What feels best for us? Do we still want joint accounts? Do we still want our separate accounts? Do we want one joint account? Do we want them all in an account? Do we have a savings account? Do we have a credit card? Those are all the things. Are we Venmoing each other every time we go out to dinner? Or are we just putting our money in one account? Those are really important conversations. And actually, that took my wife and I probably a few years. past marriage to get to where we were because we were so comfortable being individuals financially that we were like, no, this just works right now. But now we have a kid and we're like, that's all out the window because everyone is spending money on it for our son. And we're like, we can't do this anymore. And so I think it's okay. It's not something that's like, we're getting married in two months, we have to figure it out. This can take place over time, but it's really about having those deeper conversations of like, why am I so attached to keeping my own account? It's my individuality, I want to be able to spend what I want to spend without whatever x, y, z, or maybe it's I have this loan and I don't want that to be a burden on you, I want to be able to pay it off. Who's making what? That's another conversation, right? Being transparent about what you're making.

Leah Haslage:

Especially one person makes way much more than the other. Yeah.

Tirzah Stein:

And that's a conversation too. If one person makes way more than the other person, what feels best for you? And I'm not saying there's a right answer. It's about figuring out what the right answer is for you in your relationship. Maybe it's because this person makes three times as much as I make, they're putting in more towards the bills or whatever it is. But you wanna have an equal relationship, that doesn't mean it's always 50-50. It doesn't mean to be equal, I have to put in exactly 50%. But also we have to talk about so many other contexts. If you've grown up identified as a male within society, you're gonna have very different messaging about what it means to be the partner in the relationship. the breadwinner, whatever it is, the financial responsibility. And so I think there's a lot of complexity there.

Leah Haslage:

Yeah, the woman is the breadwinner in a male-female relationship. Sometimes a man can have a complex about that.

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah. This gender stuff is all a construct, but it doesn't mean that it's not real because we've been ingrained in our minds for our whole lives that this is what it means to be this and this is what it means to be this. And if you're not, then you're not strong or you're not providing or whatever it might be, right? And so we have to really, like, unwire those things and figure out in the relationship, like, what's going to feel the best for us where we're not, one person's maybe not building up resentment over time or whatever it might be, or one person feels inadequate, or maybe someone loses a job. What are you going to do?

Leah Haslage:

Well, I would say you can lose a job, but you can get opportunities. It's like, okay, well, this opportunity is in a different state or country, so how do we navigate that if it happens?

Tirzah Stein:

Is someone going to move? Those are the conversations to start having. And that's the nice thing about premarital coaching is that sometimes it can be really hard to have, oh, another thing is prenups. It can be really hard to have those conversations on your own. without all that stuff building up, and maybe fights occurring, or you not feeling her, not feeling her, so you're like, how are we gonna get onto the same page? And so having a third party person to help kind of see the bigger picture of like, oh, I can see this is what's happening for you, this is what's happening for you, how do we find a compromise in the middle ground, where do you meet each other, can be super helpful. So anyways, back to you. I know you have a question.

Leah Haslage:

No, no, no, yeah, I'm so glad you said prenup, because I actually forgot about that, but yeah, that's a very underrated topic. that we can get into another time, but that is something that would come up with the financial talk, you know. Yes, yes. The major life values, right? So religion, cultural differences, family planning, politics. If people are on opposite ends of the spectrum, is there a way to find a middle ground?

Tirzah Stein:

The first thing that comes to mind for me on this topic, specifically around core values, is that your goal is not to change your person. Your goal is not to be like, you're a Republican, I'm a Democrat, you need to be a Republican, or I'm Catholic and you're Jewish, you need to be Catholic. It's not to change each other because that's not a healthy road to go down unless Someone's like, I want to convert to Judaism. That feels important for our family. Let's talk about that. That's different, right? But I think when it comes to these really strong core values where you just know we're not the same, but we love each other and we're committed and we want to make this work together, it is not to change each other's minds or opinions on those topics. And when it's, for example, when it comes to politics, there's certain things that maybe you just shouldn't go into together. Unless you're there to just listen and have everyone be like, I'm genuinely curious about your perspective on this. I'm genuinely curious about yours. It all comes back to respect. Can we respect those differences? If those differences start to feel like to the point where you're like, they're so fundamentally different that it literally makes me feel like we're not compatible and we're not going to work because these things are so hard to accept, then maybe you're not in the right relationship. But if it's like, yes, we have those different opinions, that's okay. We respect each other. We are not trying to change each other. We can listen to each other with an open mind and curiosity, but we're not here to change the other person. I think you can make those things work.

Leah Haslage:

But if it's just bothering you that much, you might just need to rethink. Yeah. This is your future. Whatever the case may be, this is not just present tense. This is the rest of your life. And then you bring children into it, and if you decide to go that way, that's a whole other thing, right?

Tirzah Stein:

I was just about to say, it gets really complicated when you're talking about, okay, I can respect this now, but when we raise children, how are we raising our children? That is a whole other can of worms. which again requires probably lots of therapy and lots of really digging into that of like, how are we going to compromise in these ways and let our children create their own opinions and their own thoughts on certain things, right? That's a whole nother topic. But yeah, I think it definitely comes back to can we just have respect maybe this is an area where we just you go to your friends who have the same opinions on this and i go to mine and we just kind of because otherwise what's the alternative i mean you're just going to be fighting constantly yeah again it's is the love is the other aspects of your relationship the compatibility in other areas is that strong enough Other shared values. Other shared values, exactly. The things that you want to accomplish in life together, what matters to you. Are those things going to outweigh maybe some of the other things you're like, hey, it's okay. Or maybe we're going to be an interfaith household, and what does that look like? And let's talk about it. What's most important to us versus what are the things maybe I can let go of? Okay, we don't need to go to church every Sunday, but I want to make sure that we're celebrating these holidays or whatever it is. There's a difference between religion and culture and tradition. For me, I'm Jewish and I don't go to synagogue and I don't do any of that, but I really want our son to experience Hanukkah and Passover and those kinds of things, and my wife's fine with that. So there's definitely lots of conversations to be had in that area.

Leah Haslage:

Speaking of conversations and areas and having kids and all that, let's talk intimacy. Because that's a big thing for couples too, because one partner might be like, I'm okay with having sex once a week or once a month, where the other one's like, I need it four or five times a week. Someone might be open to toys. One's very like, just missionary, let's get it done, get out. Like, how do you help couples that have maybe completely different or somewhat different intimacy levels? Is it possible to have a fulfilling romantic relationship when you're different in your intimacy levels?

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah, so similar to the other topics we've been discussing is what does intimacy actually mean? Because I think a lot of times we're just talking about intimacy or sex. It's like, but what does that mean to you? Because intimacy, when we say intimacy, I think a lot of the times we're just like, oh, that's sex. Also, there's so many different ways to have sex and depending on what kind of relationship you are in. And so what does that actually look like for you? And what is your relationship to intimacy? What does it mean to you? I think that's where you start.

Leah Haslage:

Because you might not be talking about the same thing. Yeah, you might wanna be cuddling on the couch more often and okay with having the sex once or twice a week. Exactly. Like the other couple, but as long as you're being hand-holding and cuddling.

Tirzah Stein:

Exactly, so I think you start there and then you look at where the expectations are. I always ask people, what makes you feel close? Because I think at the end of the day, it also comes to being open-minded. You've committed to a life with this person. You have your whole life to figure out. And so if one person's like, I want sex every day, and the other person's like, I can't keep up with this, but what's the compromise? Could we have sex once a week? I think that would be good for me. What do I need on the other days of the week to feel close to you? And I mean, this might sound silly, but I think when life gets complicated and you start I mean, you know, your careers and all these things are happening and life and busy and kids or whatever it is, sometimes you need to schedule sex. Sometimes you need to be like... Yeah, we're having date night, we're having alone time.

And I talk to folks all the time about their connection about, like, so if we want to talk about dates really quick, one fun tip is when you feel like you're in the rut, which we all get into, where we're just doing the day-to-day life, we're exhausted, we're not finding that time together, is to schedule that. My wife and I are taking a date night every month. I plan one for her. She plans one for me so we can continue that romance. I've definitely talked to people where one person feels really frustrated because they're like, I'm always the one initiating. I'm always the one planning. This person's just sitting there. It's not fair. It's like, well, have an agreement so you can talk about what is our agreement and how do we implement that into it? And sometimes you just have to schedule stuff.

The other thing that I think is really fun is to do a date night jar, because this is another topic that came up with people who are like, I'm always planning and I'm always coming up with ideas. Sit down, make this a date, get some wine, get some food, whatever it is, and brainstorm every fun thing you could possibly do in the city you live in. I used to do this as a kid. My mom, I'd be like, I'm bored. And she's like, no, you're not. You can do a million things. Sit down and write everything you could think of you could do today. And so it's really fun. And then you have your date night jar, whatever your agreement is, maybe it's every week we go on a date. One person picks that and we're like, we're going to play putt-putt today. And then you do it. And it's so fun. So that's just like one suggestion.

It's really easy to get into like the mundane, the day-to-day, the grind, and just feeling like, oh, we're doing the same thing. We just go home every night, we make dinner, we watch a show, and it's just the same thing over and over again. Sometimes you've just got to be like, wake up, we need to change some things. And it's okay to be playful and thoughtful and just like, what do we like to do together? Maybe we're really outdoorsy and so let's make sure we're planning a trip once a month or whatever it is, right? So you as a couple can figure it out. But there's definitely ways to meet each other's needs, to find compromise, and to realize that maybe if there are strong differences, you might not get every single thing you expected. And that's okay as long as you're meeting each other's needs in some way, right? And so it's another conversation.

Leah Haslage:

Well, as I say, it's the three things that I think have been the pattern for our conversation today. Trust, communication, compromise. You have those three things. You guys should be okay. You know, if trust is broken, there's no communication and no one will compromise, you might want to rethink this relationship.

Tirzah Stein:

And sprinkle a little humor in there too, because I think that can be a really good de-escalation. I love to talk to people about that, like when they're in their hard moment and they're really triggered or they're in a fight, you can just step outside of yourself for a minute and be like, look at us, we're doing it again, we're in our pattern. wow great job we're crushing this fight right now like some humor can really de-escalate the situation right and so don't forget about that piece too because that can be a helpful tool.

Leah Haslage:

This has been such a wonderful discussion I really want to have you back on the show because I'm sure we can dive even deeper into a lot of these topics but is there any final advice for today you want to share with couples as they're planning and with doing the premarital work?

Tirzah Stein:

Yeah, I think one thing I didn't have time to mention is another tool which is really helpful is to understand your pattern. And so this could be a homework assignment you could all do now or whenever something comes up. It's like you draw a circle and you start to write the pattern. Where does it typically start? Then how does that person respond? Then what does that create in the next person, the other person? And you just start going around to the fight. How do you fight? How do you resolve it usually? I think the biggest thing for ourselves for growth is when we can step outside of ourselves and look at it in a curiosity of like, this probably isn't very effective and we keep doing it over and over and over and over again. Let's change it. You have the power in your relationship to change. You have to be able to be willing to change yourself, but you can do this as a team and approach it as a team versus like, well, you need to do this, otherwise I can't budge. No, you can work through this together.

And so when you can identify your pattern of behavior and of communication and of conflict, you can start to see areas that you can change that you can say if we just do this one little thing differently in this part of the cycle, we don't have to necessarily go all the way to this fight Maybe we never get to the fight because we've been like, oh we don't need to So that's one piece of advice and then also do premarital coaching I mean it's I love it because even if you think like we don't have communication problems we communicate super well or we don't really sure what we need to talk about just do three or four sessions and things will be uncovered. And you'll be like, Oh, yeah, we actually need to talk about this area that we didn't think about. And it can make you feel more connected, and more bonded, and on a just a higher vibration level as you enter into marriage. And the last thing about it is you get to talk about your strengths. It's not just about Oh, we're not doing this well. We need to work on this. I'd also love to reflect to them. What are your strengths? What are you crushing together? What are you doing so well?

Leah Haslage:

What do you love about your partner?

Tirzah Stein:

It's not all blame game, is huge. And that also ties into kind of like the wedding planning the ceremony. And it helps them really center their love and relationship and remember why they're doing this. Because when you're wedding planning, sometimes you feel like you're going to lose your mind and you kind of lose, you lose touch with reality and groundedness and perspective of like, we're getting married because we commit to each other. We love each other. We want to do this in front of our friends and family. Let's get back to that. And like center ourselves. So I think that can be very beneficial. And then the wedding coaching too, it really helps with that piece as well.

Leah Haslage:

I always like to end with the fun one. What is your all-time favorite TV or movie wedding?

Tirzah Stein:

I've been thinking about it a lot and I have, can I answer like, can I say a few things?

Leah Haslage:

Absolutely.

Tirzah Stein:

I love The Birdcage. It's a hilarious, hilarious wedding movie. One of my all-time favorites. I'm so glad we brought it up. If you haven't seen it, you need to go see it immediately. It's hilarious. Queer representation is just so good. My other question to this is Crazy Rich Asians because I was thinking about more of like a meaningful answer and their ceremony song. We loved it so much we used that same song as we walked down the aisle together. You walked down the aisle together? She walked with her mom. I walked with my moms. I have two moms. They walked with me. She walked with her mom. Side note, you can walk together down the aisle. There's so many creative things you can do for your ceremony and I'm so obsessed with helping people figure those things out. There's no, you don't have to do the traditional things because it's a lot of gendered and like patriarchal stuff. And then my other answer is on a TV show, like, I love reality TV, so I love me some, like, Love is Blind. I love me some Married at First Sight. And I'm always just over here, like, can someone please hire me on the show to officiate one of these weddings? Like, I'm available.

Leah Haslage:

Hey, it's out there in the universe. We're manifesting it now. We got to make this happen. I love it. Oh my God. Such great answers. Thank you so much for being here, Tirzah. This has been so wonderful and so insightful. Where can our listeners find you?

Tirzah Stein:

I'm nearlywedcoaching.com and it's nearly like almost wed, not newlywed, so it's nearlywedcoaching. And I'm also on Instagram at nearlywedcoaching.

Leah Haslage:

Thanks for being here. We'll definitely have you back to talk more about relationships because we could always use it.

Tirzah Stein:

Yes, this was such a great conversation, Leah. Thank you so much for diving into it all with me.

Leah Haslage:

Thanks for joining us today! Be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you never miss an episode. Give us a follow on social media and visit thebridechilla.com. To leave a question you'd like to hear answered on the show, head to speakpipe.com/bridechillapodcast, also linked in the description.

Bridechilla is a production of Evergreen Podcasts. Thanks to our producer and engineer, Gray Sienna Longfellow, and our executive producers, Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. And of course, a special thanks to Aleisha, our OG bridechilla, and Megan Ely of OFD Consulting. I'm your host, Leah Haslage. Until next time, Chillas!