419- Destination Wedding Pointers with Kate Hickey of Sunshower Weddings and Events

Leah Haslage:

Hello, chillas. Welcome to the Bridechilla podcast, where we celebrate love and help you plan your wedding day. I'm your host, Leah Haslage, and I'm thrilled to be here with you. Whether you're just starting to plan or counting down the days, we're here to help you stay calm, cool, and collected throughout the wedding journey. We've got amazing guests and expert tips for you. So let's get this wedding party started and embrace your inner Bridechilla.

Hey, chillas, we are here today with Kate Hickey, who is the owner of Sunshower Weddings. We're so excited to have you here on the show.

Kate Hickey:

Thank you so much for having me.

Leah Haslage:

And aloha.

Kate Hickey:

Aloha to you.

Leah Haslage:

You're in Hawaii.

Kate Hickey:

Yes, I am.

Leah Haslage:

I really want to go visit Hawaii. My best friend Kiki moved out there with her family because her husband's in the military. And just the photos look so beautiful. It seems like it's magical.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah.

Leah Haslage:

It's a nice place to live and probably a place where a lot of people come to have destination weddings.

Kate Hickey:

Yes, definitely. About 90 percent of my clients are destination. And I think it's about the same for all the other planners in our market as well.

Leah Haslage:

So that's why you are a perfect go to today for our topic on destination weddings. So let's just start with why should someone consider doing a destination wedding versus having something in their hometown?

Kate Hickey:

I think that when we're talking about weddings in general, it's about the couple, but it's also about your guests and making them feel welcome, taken care of, and thought about. So I would say when we're thinking about destination weddings, and if this is a good fit, it's like, is this meaningful to you as a couple? Is this a good fit for you as a couple to go to whatever place? And also, is it a good fit for your guests?

So a lot of clients we had in Hawaii, for example, have one partner who's from Asia or Australia or New Zealand, where the other partner is from the mainland US or from Canada or from Mexico, and they choose Hawaii because it's actually in the middle. Maybe they have no connection to Hawaii, but it is the best option for them as far as geographically for their guests. So that's a good example of thinking about your guests. Or for people who have European destination weddings, maybe one of the couple is from Europe or is from the Middle East, and then the other is from the U.S., and then they're choosing somewhere that's more centrally located for everyone.

So that could be one reason. It also could be connection to the place. E ven though we really do quite a lot of destination weddings, we get a lot of clients who are from Hawaii. They maybe moved to the mainland, but they have family here or they grew up here, so they have a connection to the place. And sometimes it's where they got engaged or where they had their first vacation together. It's very rare, I would say, that we get clients who choose Hawaii with no connection to it at all. So I think it's a marrying, so to speak, of two things, connection to the place and then best for your guests.

Leah Haslage:

So you have to really consider your guest list at this point then, right? If you're going to do small, large, either way?

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, you would start considering your guest list before you even decide to have a destination wedding. For many, it means that you're not going to have certain people at your wedding, let's say grandparents or elderly guests who can't travel, pregnant friends, potentially, or family members, people who are scared of flying. There could be people who can't afford to make the trip. For some of my clients, though, that is a feature, not a bug. They have way too many people in their family and they need it to be cut down.

Leah Haslage:

So this is like their excuse, their way of doing it.

Kate Hickey:

Yes, exactly.

Leah Haslage:

So would you say then the best way to start going about this is to first have your budget, because I think that's number one for weddings in general, right? Know your budget, at least somewhat, and then your guest list, and then location, or is there a better chicken versus the egg? What comes first?

Kate Hickey:

I mean, it's hard to say. If you are planning a destination wedding because you have an important connection to that place, I think a lot of people, it's between two places. So let's say you have a couple who's from Oregon, I don't know, and they're like, I would get married in Oregon, or we could get married in Hawaii, where we had our first date. Or our first, whatever, vacation together. I don't know why your first date would be there if you lived in Oregon.

Leah Haslage:

I mean, it's pretty baller. Hey, fly us to Hawaii.

Kate Hickey:

Exactly. And you're choosing between those two spots. Then you start looking at, well, what could we get for our wedding in Oregon? How much would we have to spend to get the ideal wedding we want in Oregon? How much would we have to spend in Hawaii? So that's where we're talking about budget. Maybe it's cheaper in Oregon, but you'd have a lot more guests so that it actually ends up being more. So it's kind of like a puzzle to all fit together. I wouldn't say there's one first step, like step one budget, step two location, step three guests. When you're considering a destination wedding, you have to think about those three prongs as like a triangle almost, and it all needs to fit correctly in order to make the next step into officially booking a destination wedding.

Leah Haslage:

So how do you, I mean obviously we mentioned connection right that is an important way of choosing your location, whether it's a first date or the proposal site, family is involved. What other factors should there be considered when deciding on a location because there's so many options. I mean, we talked about Hawaii being the islands. There's so many different islands you can go to, right? If you want a beach wedding, a lot of people want a castle wedding. So you can go to Ireland, Scotland, you can do Italy and obviously the UK. So what are some other factors to consider if you don't technically have a connection, but you know that you want to not get married in your hometown?

Kate Hickey:

Sure. I think that cost is a big one. The price difference between France and Scotland might be significant. I don't plan weddings there, but I do know that there's huge ranges between just even areas in Italy. Lake Como is so much more expensive than if you want to have something in Tuscany, for example. Budget is probably the first step when it comes to narrowing in. Let's say you were like, I want to have a castle wedding. Then that's one of the first steps.

Also, what is a close airport? What is travel like? You might pick the most amazing villa in the middle of nowhere France, but do you have to fly to Paris and then take three different trains and switch and all this stuff and then you're having 60 people try to do that to come out? It just really isn't realistic, especially if there's a language barrier.

For Hawaii, I would say a big, big part of the decision in Hawaii is what month are you wanting to get married? What weather do you want? Do you want a rainforest? Do you want a waterfall where it's misty, cloudy, a cloud forest? Do you want to be right on the beach, toes in the sand? Do you want a desert wedding with like lava rocks all over the place? Those things would help you narrow down on your island and also your time of year. So yeah, I mean it's, not easy. There's not a quick like, okay, you go to this website, and you type in all the things you want. And then it's like, boom, here, here's where you should get married.

But I think starting with a connection piece is the most important, more so than the aesthetics. I think that people who start with aesthetics as their first priority, like I want to get married, and I want it to feel like European countryside at a castle or whatever villa.

Leah Haslage:

Because I saw on Pinterest or on Instagram.

Kate Hickey:

I think they're going to be overwhelmed with the selection process. You could literally go anywhere. You could go to Croatia. You can go to upstate New York and find places like that. When you can choose anything, it really is overwhelming for couples. An initial narrowing, I would say, is good.

Leah Haslage:

If you have a wedding planner, which are God's gifts to couples, they can obviously help with the process, but if you decide to forego it because you either just don't want to have one or it's not in your budget, what are some resources to utilize so you're not getting sucked into the Pinterest, Instagram? That's where it gets super overwhelming. Is there like a AAA map guide for couples?

Kate Hickey:

It's tricky because I think that Facebook groups are a big spot where a lot of couples will use for specific destinations. I know there's Facebook groups for like certain areas of France or for Lake Como and Italy for Scotland. You know, there are Facebook groups like Scotland brides. I mean, I don't belong to them, but I do know they exist. And for Hawaii, I know we have one called Hawaii Brides. Vendors are not allowed in it. So it's just couples saying, Oh, I got married here. This is how much I spent, you know, all this different information on it.

Leah Haslage:

That's so nice, though.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, some of my clients have been in it. So I think that that's good. It's hard because if you cannot budget for a wedding planner, I would highly not recommend a destination wedding. I know that that is some harsh truth, but you're not there. So how are you going to know who to pick for this or that? How do you know that you're not getting scammed? Like someone's not saying, you know, oh, I provide this and this and this service when you're not boots on the ground, especially if there's a language barrier. It's like, let's say you're an English speaker. Whoever speaks English might seem like the best vendor for you, but maybe they're really not.

If you're doing a wedding in France, let's say, or in Spain, Um, yeah, I would, I hate giving the advice like, you must have a wedding planner because I don't really think that that's true. But for a destination wedding, I think that it's probably the most important vendor on your list and usually will be able to pay for themselves. I hesitate to say the word in discounts, but just in not making mistakes. Like we get clients who come to us. They've already booked all their stuff, didn't have a planner, and I'll notice so many things that we could have cut, saved money, vendors that they booked a higher package than they really needed because they kind of got talked into it. And so we really do pay for ourselves with advice.

Leah Haslage:

Oh, absolutely. As someone that ended up using one later in the game, it was the best money spent. So with the vendors, though, that's a great point. So language barrier, obviously something, but like, who do you hire vendor wise that's on location? And who can you bring with you if you want specifics? Can you just do that?

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, I mean, this is, this is tricky, because there are a lot of planners who specialize in destination weddings. And so some people would say you can get a planner who specializes in destination weddings, and then they will help you book the rest. I, in some ways, I actually think that that is true. That's the thing that I've met some of these planners, I know them, and I know that they're great at their jobs, but a planner who does specialize in destination weddings will immediately link up with a planner at the destination. So they will hire a planner at the destination like a subcontractor, so to speak, kind of like if you get a contractor for your house and then they hire a tile specialist or something. We're like the location specialist for that planner. So I definitely think that a planner can be something that you get at your home.

But a good question to ask would be, do you hire a planner locally to work with? And if the answer is no, in my opinion, that would be a big red flag for that vendor. If they've done a lot of other weddings in that location before, like we have a lot of planners from California who come out to Hawaii, and maybe they've worked here 10 times before. If that's the case, maybe they don't need a local on-site planner. But if you're planning for some middle of nowhere France, they need a local planner, especially somebody who speaks French. So the second item that you could potentially bring would be photo and video. I think that that is a commonly brought thing. There are lots of photographers who are quote-unquote destination photographers. However, that is one of the big areas where I will disagree with a lot of people. This is like a very me going against the grain, but there's probably so many. photographers and videographers being like, no, she's wrong. But you should not hire a destination videographer or photographer. You should hire locally, almost always. I think that there are some exceptions to this, which is like, for example, all inclusive resorts might include a photographer, and you don't know who you're going to get or something like that. That would definitely be a situation where you could bring your own.

But I know for Hawaii, we have a strict permitting policy. And I know other places have this too. You have to get permits for different beaches, to shoot in different state parks. You can't just walk in there with your camera. The park rangers will kick you out. And you have to have a Hawaii business license, usually, to get those permits. So it's like, you can't just be a destination photographer or videographer. Also, the settings are so much different. Could someone who's from Mexico come and shoot in Hawaii? Probably yes. But can someone from Washington come and shoot in Hawaii and have it look good? No. I've never seen it. I've seen so many clients book this and their photos look terrible. And then we're all in the group chat. Because they're used to a certain environment, right? And we're all in the group chat sending them to each other on text being like, can you believe these photos that they spent so much money for?

I hate saying that because I totally understand wanting to shoot in different places and experience different places. And we have worked with some great photographers from the mainland, but they're full sun photos. They're photos that are backlit by the ocean. They do not look as good. Just period, they don't. And videography same thing and then the other the big big reason not to hire destination vendors. This is like the number one because they are not trying to impress anyone there. You are a one-time client for them one time in Hawaii or what to use Hawaii as an example and if they do a terrible job if they flip out and yell at people if they are parking in the wrong spot? If they just do anything that's unacceptable professionally, then whatever. Slate is wiped clean.

Whereas if a photographer does that to us, or any vendor, they are off the vendor list. We will tell all the other planners on the island. It's a small island. It's a small community. And just the social and professional pressure is enough to make people do a good job. So like when you're hiring out of market vendors, they could just lose your photos and run. And I mean, that could of course happen in the market as well, but the chances are extremely low when we're working with people. It's people we've worked with for years and years and we will be working with for years and years, um, who live here and have a community here and they would never do anything to jeopardize that.

For example, I had a wedding recently where we had a DJ who made a big mistake and there were a bunch of things that got messed up and they fully refunded the client. If that was not a DJ that I work with all the time, I don't know if that would have happened because they have no incentive to make me refer them again. They don't even live here. Why do they care? So that's the other big reason.

And then the last one, which is just more of an ethical thing, is it's expensive to live at these destinations. It's expensive to live in Lake Como. It's expensive to live in Hawaii. It's expensive to live at, I don't know, Niagara Falls, I assume. I don't know. If you really want to go there because it's so beautiful to get married, then it's probably really expensive to live there too. And by bringing in somebody like let's say our average photography package for six hours is around $4,000. Let's say you get a six-hour package and you live in Oklahoma and they're going to travel with you and they charge you $2,000. Even if they take great photos, it's like they are undercutting the people who need to survive to live here because where they live, it's less expensive to live. And it's just not cool to go into another market where it's really expensive to live and not support the vendors who live there.

Leah Haslage:

Support local. And you think you're doing that by bringing along someone from your hometown, plus you're getting a deal. But like you said, like, they don't know the lay of the land, because they probably hadn't been there before. So shooting the photography, there's gonna be different and they don't have the permits, unless they're like really on their game and figure out a way to get some kind of clearance.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, I mean, they could if they had like a photographer, a second shooter that was subcontracting with that pulled the permits, like, there are ways to do it. And a great photography team from the mainland will follow all those steps. But usually it doesn't happen. So it's all of those things. And also, there's the other like, what if what if all their gear gets stolen in the car? What if all of their photography and videography equipment gets stolen. Well, I can tell you what would happen if one of our local photographers had that happen. They would reach out to all their friends and network and borrow someone else's but what is your destination photographer/videographer going to do if they are in the middle of nowhere and lose all their stuff or it breaks?

Leah Haslage:

Great point because we like to think everything is gonna be perfect, but it's not gonna go wrong at some point. Hopefully not a whole catastrophe but like be prepared for you know, a fire to have to get burned out. But right now, that's a really good point. I didn't think about like, if their equipment was lost or stolen. You're not going to get Amazon Prime 24-hour delivery time for that on the destination.

Kate Hickey:

There are some exceptions to this, of course. But the exceptions far, far, far are less than the rule. I've seen far more bad galleries from destination photographers and videographers than I have good ones. And so it's just a risk that you're running.

Leah Haslage:

Speaking of risks, with that, actually, someone on the Bridechilla community group on Facebook had asked about with a destination wedding, bringing in flowers, for example. Bringing in other things. You could also consider stuff like customs and that with orders.

Kate Hickey:

Sure, I mean for Hawaii we sort of have our own version of customs. We have screening to bring things in from the mainland, but you still can bring in things. We also get people who do silk flowers or certain things, Borrowed Blooms is really popular right now. That's a company that does amazing fake flower arrangements. So you definitely can bring in flowers. Country to country, I really don't know. But in Hawaii, you can.

Leah Haslage:

Right, that's what gets tricky.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, but it's also sort of like, why would you want to? If it's something really specific, like I had a bride who really wanted peonies. Peonies don't grow in Hawaii.

Leah Haslage:

And peonies are expensive, if you don't know that. Peonies are very expensive, especially off season.

Kate Hickey:

If they're in season, like in May or June, then they can be cheap. But otherwise, they're not. In Hawaii, though, they're always expensive because we have to have them shipped in. But we have them shipped out. It was OK. It all turned out great. But the florist is managing that, making sure everything goes well. I don't know how you would DIY that, so to speak.

Leah Haslage:

You mentioned logistics. And it's such a great point because whether you're having a destination or traditional wedding, you have to consider the logistics for your guests. And making sure that there's maps included in invitations, especially if it's going to be an off the beaten path spot. Or if you know most of your family is coming in from out of town, or maybe stay in like suburbia or country areas and you're going to be in the big city and like they're not used to navigating it like you need it or vice versa. You need to be able to give them a heads up on how to do all this. So how do you consider logistics when doing a destination?

Kate Hickey:

Well, a wedding website is your best friend. This is where a wedding website can really shine. I think planners recommend a wedding website even for just your run-of-the-mill wedding. I got married 10 years ago in Chicago. Everyone lived in Chicago pretty much and still we had a wedding website of like, here's where we're going for this and here's where we're going for this. So I think wedding website, that is the most, most key component there.

And then as far as directions go, you would have pre-checked like do you use Google Maps or do you use Apple Maps on the big island where I live and work? Apple Maps is absolute crap You can really only use Google Maps here on the Big Island, but I know in other places that flips actually. So there's other places where Google Maps is not doing as well and Apple Maps is better. There's also a lot of places where there's no GPS. So it's really important that you give info there. I think that if we have something really off the beaten path, we usually book shuttles for guests. I mean, you can't really expect them to navigate places they've never been where there's no GPS and no cell service. Like it's just that's not realistic. We do weddings in those situations, and we pretty much always book shuttles for them.

Leah Haslage:

So another expense to consider when planning your destination.

Kate Hickey:

So really, it comes back to, okay, who do you need to hire? It's like a wedding planner. You need to hire a wedding planner, and you need to hire a wedding planner who's familiar with your destination, who lives and works there, because how do you know if you need to budget for shuttles? How do you know if the cell service stops working in a certain area? How do you know any of that? It's really hard.

Leah Haslage:

So with the shuttles, you have to consider that in your budget. The next budget thing is, because you have guests coming in from out of town, which includes your bridal party if you're doing one, who's responsible for paying what? Like what do you have to take on as a couple to budget in and what is going to be the responsibility?

Kate Hickey:

This is tricky because for mainland weddings, the common sensibility is like bridesmaids will pay for their own dresses, for example. Groomsmen will pay for their own tux rentals. Hair and makeup kind of goes back and forth on that for non-destination weddings. Most people are paying for that themselves Bridesmaids can choose like I do want to get my hair done or no I don't and if they want to spend for that and then same for staying in the hotel the night of the wedding or whatnot The bridesmaids and groomsmen are usually paying for that themselves as well as like their gas or whatever travel expenses they have to get to the wedding so for the most part the only thing you're paying for it for a non-destination wedding for your wedding party is their gifts, like if you want to get them a nice gift. That is not the case for destination wedding. You should expect to spend a lot more on your wedding party, especially if your destination wedding is to Hawaii or to France or to Italy. Like, come on, they are going so far. They have to take so much time off work. The amount of PTO alone is a gift to you.

So that's the first thing. But you should be expecting to pay for some of their expenses, not necessarily all so if they're paying for their own housing let's say then you would pay for their dress and their suits and their hair and makeup and you know the Welcome drinks the night before and of course obviously everything for the wedding or if they're paying for their own hair and makeup maybe you're covering their accommodations. Especially in the case of a large villa, so to speak, where everybody stays together, either paying for that completely or subsidizing that for your wedding party should be expected. Because at some point, it's just excessive. I think that about $1,000-ish for most people is the most you can expect for them to spend on your wedding.

Leah Haslage:

And flights are so expensive.

Kate Hickey:

Right.

Leah Haslage:

Depending on where you're flying to also.

Kate Hickey:

It can get really expensive. Unless your friends are super rich, like maybe you work in tech and all your friends also work in tech and they're all like, yeah, let's just go to the Four Seasons and we're going to all fly first. Which is good for you, man. Like, do it. Exactly. If that is the case, then like, cool. But that is not the case for the vast majority of people. And it really will build resentment with your friends if like, not only are they traveling to your wedding, they're paying for their flights, they're paying for their hotel. And then you're like, oh, by the way, you know, it's $250 for hair and makeup. Come on. It's just that becomes too much.

Leah Haslage:

And if they can't come, then they have FOMO.

Kate Hickey:

Right. And then like, oh, you have to get an Uber, you know, to come to the wedding and an Uber back. Like, well, no, you should be providing them a shuttle. Like, you should be cutting down on the number of expenses that they have while they're there as much as you can. And so there's definitely, there's no like hard and fast rule of here's all the things that your bridesmaids and groomsmen should, must pay for. But just really be thoughtful into the entire cost that your wedding party is undertaking to come to your wedding and offset that as much as you can and consider that in the initial budgeting.

Leah Haslage:

It's so funny. So going into this, I really had my brain like, oh, destination is going to cost so much less than a traditional one at home. And the more we're talking, I'm like, wow, this is really adding. So, I mean, is destination more than traditional, or is it just how you do it? Like, how many people you have, where you go?

Kate Hickey:

The biggest and most important way that a destination wedding is less expensive is in your guest count. If your guest count is lower, your wedding is cheaper. Period. If you would have had a 300-person wedding at home and you have a 50-person wedding destination, it would be shocking to me that your destination wedding was more expensive than your wedding at home. Guest count is the fastest, easiest, best way to cut costs for your wedding. And it's tricky because, let's say, you live in Chicago, and all your family lives in Chicago, and your fiancé's family lives in Chicago, and all their friends live in Chicago, and let's say, oh, they also have a Catholic family, and your fiancé's mom has eight brothers and sisters, and they want to invite all the cousins and like, and these are not even extended family. Maybe these are people you see multiple times a year and they live in your town. At that point, it's an extremely expensive undertaking to have your wedding then in Chicago.

So having a destination wedding, some people will choose not to come. That's fine. And that can really save a lot of money. If your wedding is one of those weddings where everybody will be coming from a different part of the world. So let's say there'll be a bunch of guests from New Zealand who are coming to Hawaii, and then there's a bunch of guests from Chicago coming to Hawaii. In that case, your wedding's not going to be less expensive than it would have been to have it in Chicago, but you're just making it easier for your guests. you're splitting the difference. You're not saying to the Chicago family, oh, well, you guys all just can drive 20 minutes. But to the New Zealand family, OK, you're going to fly a whole day. You're splitting the difference and having everyone meet in the middle. So I think that that is a good way of approaching things. But it's not going to make your budget less, if anything. Your budget is going to be more than it would have been. But you're really thinking about your guests in that choosing of location.

Leah Haslage:

okay i have to know your take on this because when planning a wedding there's like this i don't want to say rule but like where they say you invite say 100 people, but just count on only like 75 attending because they're not going to show. But like, how do you not know you're going to be like that 1% that like all 100 people RSVP and show up? Like, yeah. What do you think about that “rule”? I say with quotation marks.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, that rule is some huge BS. It is.

Leah Haslage:

How many people does that bite in the ass? Because I feel like it bites a lot of us in the ass.

Kate Hickey:

If you have a wedding planner, it won't. They already talked to you about it beforehand, but no, I think it's really hard because there's no, there's no rule. Like post COVID, especially I saw this happening. You know, it used to be that we were like, okay, some people will come, some people won't come. It's usually for destination weddings, it would be between like 50 and 75% of the invited guests. would come. After COVID, I was seeing 100% of guest counts come because they're like, oh, we saved up all these vacation days. We haven't taken a vacation in years. Now we are ready. And so my 2022 weddings, their budgets were blown. They had every single guest come.

Now that we're in 2024, we're a little away from that, I feel like things are starting to even out more. It really just depends. Who did you invite? Were you the group that had 300 people and you're shooting for a 50-person wedding? Well, in that case, you're going to have one-sixth of your invited guest list out to white. If you are the group where it's like you're the New Zealand, Chicago, you're probably having every single person who you invited or really close because you've already paired the guest list down to the essential people and those people are all flying out to celebrate together. So there is no rule of thumb. The way that I recommend clients do it is to do a Google form. This is going to sound so not cool. It is not like a really cute save the date.

Leah Haslage:

No, talk nerdy to me. Google Docs and Spreadsheets. Let's go.

Kate Hickey:

Here's what I would recommend doing, sending out a Google form and saying to anyone who you might even invite to your wedding, hey, we're considering a destination wedding. We're not sure if we can afford it. We're not sure where it will be. If we have a destination wedding next year and it's in Hawaii, what percent of chance are you going to come? If it's in France, if it's in Chicago, and you know, you can ask them a hundred percent, 75, 50, 50. We probably won't be able to make it next year because we don't have the funds and the PTO for it, whatever. And, you know, offer those choices.

Then you can see, all right, we probably are going to have a hundred guests even if we go to Hawaii. And you can start budgeting and then choose maybe not to have your wedding there. It's tricky. If you send out that initial survey, if you keep it vague enough, you still don't even have to invite all those people you initially surveyed. because you could say the venue we ended up picking was really small and so we needed to keep it smaller or whatever the situation is.

So there is still out even after that initial surveying and you could do it like let's say you did decide we're getting married in France 100% sure we're getting married in France but you haven't picked your venue yet. So you're like we're thinking September, October next year and some of the venues cap at 50 and some of them cap at 100. And you don't know which one you're going to pick. And the one that caps at 50 is way more expensive and way more beautiful, let's say. But you're like, well, we can't then get 60 people RSVP-ing yes, because then we will have over the venue count.

That is where a Google Form can also work well for you. Because you can say, hey, we are getting married in France next year. It is going to be September to October next year. And we know that. you are going to be invited. But we're trying to figure out what venue we can book. Same exact thing. 100% coming, 75%, so on and so forth. And then you can really calculate.

Leah Haslage:

That's a great way to figure out your budget, though. I love that Google idea.

Kate Hickey:

It's not the most romantic. It's not an invitation. It's not a save the date.

Leah Haslage:

But you should not probably send it to someone you don't plan on inviting to begin with. No, I wouldn't. Don't send it to your co-workers if you don't plan on inviting them.

Kate Hickey:

No, exactly. But if you are probably inviting them, then you should. You could send it out. And it's also a good way to find out that people aren't coming. Like, let's say that they're, you know, your best friends are like, I don't have a PTO for that in that initial, in that initial thing, then you can just not do, not send it out, like just not do a destination wedding. Because that really has a lot of disappointment with people being like, yeah, I think I can make it. You ask them in person. They're like, yeah, I think so. I could probably make that work. They are people pleasers. And then when the time comes, they're like, no, I really can't make this work. And had you known that XYZ person would not be at your wedding if you had done it in France. You would have not picked France. Yeah, giving them a nice easy way to say I can't make that work before you even pick is the way to go.

Leah Haslage:

Or I guess what you could do is if you really want France and you don't care about everybody and their brother being there, you and your partner go out there and get married there, and just have to hire a photographer and videographer, have dinner wherever there, and then come home and have a small gathering. Have a party at home, yeah, for sure. We get a lot of clients who do that, too. Oh, I bet, because it's probably a great way to kind of have the best of both worlds, right? You get to have that experience with your partner, but, you know, save the money in the end also.

Kate Hickey:

Exactly. And that's where it comes down to, is this place because of you and your partner? Or is this place because of what's going to be convenient and good for your guests? And if it is about you and your partner, then you really won't mind if a lot of people won't be there.

Leah Haslage:

Any other unexpected expenses that we haven't touched upon yet that people really should consider when planning?

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, I don't think it's unexpected, but of course flights, hotels, you know, those costs, even just like checking more bags, shipping stuff out to your planner before your wedding. Things like that. Those can add up, but I don't really think that they're unexpected. Yeah.

Leah Haslage:

Well, no, I wouldn't have considered the extra bags to check. Oh, that's a great point. Especially with your formal wear and stuff like that. I'm such a carry on person that I wouldn't have thought about.

Kate Hickey:

I mean, you should carry on your wedding dress, but there's going to be like your rehearsal dinner outfit and your, you know, whatever. Maybe you're like silk robe pajamas and whatever, all the stuff you're going to have as a bride. Or for the groom, you know, it really does take up a lot of space so yeah i think that that's an area but in general it's usually mostly the same things that you would have on a mainland wedding um it's just somewhere else.

One other thing is if you want all of the stuff if you want all of the experiences that come with wedding planning. You want a cake tasting. You want to taste your cocktails. You want to do a hair and makeup trial. You want to do an engagement shoot with your photographer. You have to book another trip to that destination before your wedding. So that is a big one.

Leah Haslage:

Oh, yeah. That's such a great point. You can't, yeah, it sounds like they're going to ship it. to you from your home if you book at Sandals. You have to just be there.

Kate Hickey:

Right. But you don't have to do that. I get clients who skip those things. They skip their tastings and stuff like that. And the hair and makeup trial, they do it just two or three days before the wedding. Things like that. So you don't have to take on those expenses. But if you want the full experience, you know, that you see, like, I don't know, in the Wedding Planner movies or whatever, where you, like, taste all the cake and you taste all the drinks. It's an exciting part of the process. Yeah, of course. To be able to do that, you've got to plan another trip out to your destination.

Leah Haslage:

So, we haven't talked customs yet. So, if you're traveling to a different destination, do you need to adhere to cultural traditions in those areas?

Kate Hickey:

It depends on what the cultural traditions are, I would say.

Leah Haslage:

I see a lot of Hawaiian weddings where people wear the leis and stuff and they're not from Hawaii, you know.

Kate Hickey:

So there's kind of two things like cultural traditions or norms in wedding planning. And then cultural traditions and norms in the wedding itself. And I would bring those up kind of separately. So cultural traditions and norms in wedding planning. Yes, this can be a huge struggle for couples because there are, if you are from New York City, let's say, you are used to a certain level of customer service, of people responding to your emails, of a fast paced life. And if you were trying to plan a wedding, like in Hawaii, I'm sure, but Mexico, the Caribbean, there are a lot of places. We just have a slower pace of life. I would not say that I fall into that category because I'm very much a workaholic. But no, I mean, amongst people in Hawaii, it is not unusual to go two weeks without a response to your email. It is just not like that with the work culture here.

And so a lot of my clients, I've had clients say, if they don't want to email me back, if they're not emailing me back about this question, I don't want to work with them. I don't trust them anymore. And I'm like, okay, but it's a really, you know, that might be the perfect vendor for them. So I think that just understanding what the pace is, what the work life balance is and the place that you are getting married is important. So, that's the first piece.

And also like, what the bargaining culture might be. Like, for example, we get a lot of Indian couples getting married here and Southeast Asian in general, and bargaining is a huge part of their culture of like, Oh, well, can I get it for a little less? Or, oh, can you throw something in? And that is an important part of their culture. And, you know, not something that that is shameful or bad, but in Hawaii, for example, we have a no bargaining culture here. That is just not a thing. It's considered extremely rude to ask for a lower price because this is the price. I put it on there for my work and that's it.

Leah Haslage:

Yeah, either you pay this or you just go elsewhere.

Kate Hickey:

Exactly. I think that that can be a bit of a culture shock for some couples. where they're used to a certain level of bargaining. And I would say like mainland US, we're kind of in the middle there, you know, like we'll ask for a discount, right? But then if someone says no, like, it's okay. Here, asking for discount can be is a huge faux pas. Honestly, I actually had to add it into our contract that we won't bargain for couples because they're like, you're our wedding planner. Why aren't you bargaining for us? And like, we don't, we don't do that. It destroys our reputation.

Leah Haslage:

Wow, that's interesting.

Kate Hickey:

That's a cultural norm that you might not know. But again, if you have a wedding planner, they will help you. Yeah, so that's the first piece, but the bigger piece is on the day of the wedding. What's considered appropriation?

Leah Haslage:

That's what I was going to say, appropriation versus appreciation.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, it's tricky. So for Hawaii, you will get a lot of different opinions on this, but I would say that the main agreed upon ways to handle things is that if a native Hawaiian is giving you whatever service, that you can be pretty confident in that you are appreciating not appropriating. If they are working with you, so if you have a kahu, a kahu is like a fishiant as your Hawaiian, to do your Hawaiian ceremony, and if they are doing your lei exchange, then great. If they are blowing the conch shell, if they're chanting an oli, an oli is like a prayer sort of a chant that happens before your wedding ceremony or sometimes during the wedding ceremony. If they're blessing your rings with salt water, then that is appreciative. It's not appropriative. They go over that with the couple before the wedding and talk things through.

But if you're like Aunt Sarah from, you know, I don't know, Nebraska, it's like, oh, I'm going to blow the conch and chant the Oli. It's like, oh, I don't know if you really want to do that. And we would advise against it. Definitely. So the first thing is, who is doing? Who is your cultural practitioner that you're working with? The second is, how are you approaching the thing? For example, if you have plastic leis and grass skirts that are plastic or something here, that is considered really a no-no and appropriative and embarrassing. But if you have fresh flower leis that are made for you by a lei maker, that is great. And you're celebrating Hawaiian culture by wearing those and by exchanging them in your ceremony. And so there's definitely nothing wrong with appreciating Hawaiian culture, and having that as part of your wedding, but really looking for local practitioners for those things is important, is extremely important.

And I think that that's the case everywhere, you know, any place that you would be. Obviously, I'm familiar with Hawaii, but you wouldn't want to have, you know, I don't know, let's say you're in Scotland or something. You don't want to just wear kilts and everybody wears kilts and like just Aunt Sarah from Nebraska plays the bagpipes and whatever. It's like, no, if a Scottish person is, you know, maybe you get your fittings done at a Scottish kilt rental place and they go over everything with you and pick the right tartan and everything, then it's much better and more appreciative than appropriative. You're not just like saying, I'm going to do this. And there's not that entitlement there of: I'm going to do whatever, and I don't care what that means to the culture to do it because I think it looks pretty or whatever the case might be, or is cool or is aesthetic for Instagram. You're saying, I want to do it and let me hire someone, work with someone, put money back into the local economy to do it right. Yeah, I think that that's the big difference when it comes to your ceremony.

Leah Haslage:

That's been a common theme from you in this session and our discussion, and I love it because I'm a big support and shop local person. I support our local restaurants here in Cleveland, Ohio, as much as humanly possible. Anyone that follows me on Instagram will know that. But with weddings, destination or home, but with destinations in specific, it is really important, I think, to support the place you're going to and keeping that economy massaged, right?

Kate Hickey:

Right. I mean, it won't exist for the future. It's kind of like, you know, when we think about going to a beautiful national park, if you just throw your trash on the ground and chop down all the trees or whatever the case might be, it's not going to be there for future people. We will not have a wedding industry in Hawaii if you want to get married here, if you aren't supporting local businesses.

Leah Haslage:

So with that, let's talk legal. The other unsexy thing that we're going to cover here, but we need to cover it because it is an important part in wedding planning in general. And I'm sure there's like specific legalities that we need to consider when booking a destination wedding. So what are some things that we should know for sure?

Kate Hickey:

Well, in my previous life before I was a wedding planner, I was a lawyer. So I love to talk about this. This is great. To podcast listeners, I'm not your lawyer. This is not legal advice. So you should get a lawyer if you want one. But yeah, there's a few areas. One is in insurance. One is in wedding licenses. Yeah, the biggest, biggest, biggest, biggest is insurance. I mean, oh gosh. The number of couples that I'm like, can you please get cancellation insurance? I write it into every budget I write. I write cancellation insurance and I have a whole blog post dedicated to it. I go over it with couples. I talk to them all about what it covers, what it doesn't. And still some of my clients aren’t booking cancellation insurance. I would say that is the biggest mistake I see, not just for destination weddings, but for weddings in general.

Leah Haslage:

Why do you think people will skip it? Because I would think that that'd be so important just to cover your own ass.

Kate Hickey:

Well, it doesn't cover everything,

Leah Haslage:

Because you don't know what the venue goes down, act of God, everything else. I mean, COVID should teach everybody.

Kate Hickey:

I know preaching to the choir here with you. But I think with insurance, it's one of those things that doesn't cover everything. A lot of people think, Oh, I'm gonna get it and nothing's gonna happen. Nothing's gonna happen to my wedding. It doesn't cover change apart, which is like a big reason why a lot of weddings are canceled. So if it doesn't cover that, it's sort of like, well, you know, do I even want to get it. And of course, no one thinks they're going to call their wedding when they're booking it.

But we've had venues close. We've had vendors go out of business. We've had vendors leave the islands. We've had all sorts of things. And if you have cancellation insurance, it covers all of that. So that is the most important legal piece, I would say. Well, I don't know the most important, but a very important piece. I always recommend cancellation insurance. And for your different countries, there's cancellation insurance there. I can tell you for the US, we get a lot of couples who are from different countries and they want to get insurance in Hawaii for their wedding here. And you can, you just need to have what's called a registered agent in Hawaii or wherever it is that your wedding is happening. So the registered agent could be me. It could be your wedding planner. So the insurance policy would still be taken out in your name, but where the documents are sent, so to speak, the address on file could be your wedding planner. Another reason to have a local wedding planner. Just another one to have your registered agent there. But yeah, I think for other countries it's similar. I'm only really familiar with the US, but there are insurance companies that do destination weddings exclusively, and they have different underwriters for whatever specific country you're going to. So if you work with a destination planner, a planner who specializes in destination weddings, this should be something that they can help you with. The next thing is your marriage license requirements. They are different everywhere.

Leah Haslage:

I was going to say, because I think here in the U.S., state by state, I think is different.

Kate Hickey:

Yes, extremely. It can be really tricky. A lot of people just get married where they live. They just get married where they live, go to the courthouse, get it done, and then have their ceremony wherever their wedding is, and it's more symbolic.

Leah Haslage:

That's true, because you don't really need the ceremony to be the legal thing. Totally.

Kate Hickey:

You just getting married and registering is the legal thing. I know there are certain countries where wedding planners always recommend you just do the paperwork at home and you don't worry about the marriage certificate. the place that you're having your destination wedding. For Hawaii, if you are a U.S. citizen or live in the U.S., we're a state, so you definitely can get legally married here. That's no problem. It's pretty simple, and you just follow the steps. Again, your wedding planner should be able to help you. Should be able to help you with the steps. I know. I’m broken record over here, but your wedding planner will help you with the steps. But yeah, I think the key for a lot of people is to get married legally wherever they live and then do a symbolic ceremony.

Leah Haslage:

Yeah, so like if you are listening to this and you live in France and you're going to come to the U.S., you can still just get legally married in France and then just come here and have the ceremony and party.

Kate Hickey:

You can get married in the U.S. and bring that certificate back to France. You can register it with France. You can do that. It's just more steps. So it's like how much you like the paperwork aspect of it.

Leah Haslage:

I don't know if anyone wants to do all that paperwork. If you do, God bless you. Is there any other additional advice that we haven't covered that you think couples should know when planning their destination weddings? Or just weddings in general.

Kate Hickey:

Yeah, this is really tricky. I mean, for weddings in general, that's easier advice. Just keep it about you as a couple. Don't try to keep up with the Joneses. It can really be hard for people when you're seeing what everybody else is doing and you're like, oh, I want to do that. I don't need a thing like that. It's, oh God, that is the hardest thing. So stay off Pinterest. You know, really try and just focus on you as a couple. What do you like? Do you guys love to go to tacos once a week? Then have tacos at your wedding. You don't need to have a steak dinner because you don't even like steak, maybe, or whatever the case is. So that's probably my biggest piece of advice, destination or not destination, to always just center you as a couple.

Leah Haslage:

I love that. All right, last question. Wrap it up here. What is your favorite celebrity destination wedding?

Kate Hickey:

Okay, I have two. One for Hawaii and one for not Hawaii. Because I was like, well, I should pick a Hawaii one, right? But that's not my true favorite. So my true favorite is Whitney Wolfe Hurd. She's the founder of Bumble. She had a wedding in Vogue eight years ago or seven years ago. And I am obsessed with it. So if you guys look up Whitney Wolfherd's wedding in Vogue, it was just so beautiful. I mean, it was in Italy, and they had this fruit tablescape that she was one of the first people I saw with a fruit tablescape that was really cool. And we've taken it as inspiration for a lot of my weddings, I know. And just like a lot of hand painted elements and things from like local artisans that I thought was so cool. So Whitney Wolfherd, that is my favorite destination wedding.

And then my favorite Hawaii wedding, celebrity wedding is a Bachelor contestant. If you know Ari Ludendieck. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. And Lauren, I don't know what her last name is. Something with a B. Lauren B.

Leah Haslage:

Yeah, I think their wedding was in People, wasn't it?

Kate Hickey:

Yes. They got married at a venue that's now closed on Maui called the Haiku Mill. And it just had all these like beautiful hanging elements that I've since recreated for a couple weddings. with like glass crystal garlands that hang down mixed with leis and different flowers that are hanging and I just thought it was so like ethereal, it was beautiful. So love theirs as well.

Leah Haslage:

Okay, thank you so much for being on today. This is so fun and so much great information that we can all utilize. How can we find you?

Kate Hickey:

Oh, on Instagram, I'm Sunshower weddings. On Pinterest, Sunshower weddings, on Facebook. All the channels.

Leah Haslage:

Well, thanks, Kate. It was so great to have you on and we'll talk to you soon.

Kate Hickey:

Sounds good, thank you!

Leah Haslage:

Thanks for joining us today! Be sure to subscribe wherever you get podcasts so you never miss an episode. Give us a follow on social media and visit thebridechilla.com. To leave a question you'd like to hear answered on the show, head to speakpipe.com/bridechillapodcast, also linked in the description.

Bridechilla is a production of Evergreen Podcasts. Thanks to our producer and engineer, Gray Sienna Longfellow, and our executive producers, Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. And of course, a special thanks to Aleisha, our OG bridechilla, and Meghan Ely of OFD Consulting. I'm your host, Leah Haslage. Until next time, Chillas!