E4: Reaching New Heights: Workplace Pt. 1

Speakers: Marlene Harris-Taylor, Ramona Robinson, Ariane Kirkpatrick, ChiChi Nkemere, Bethany Studenic & Mona Scott

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

In January of 2020, Bloomberg CityLab published an article about a new study from Pittsburgh researchers, naming the best and worst cities for black women. Among cities with at least 100,000 black women, Cleveland came in dead last in terms of livability. In this city with a nearly 50% black population, this news drops like a bomb, and reactions were mixed.

[Music Playing]

Do you think Cleveland is really the worst for black women? And what do you say?

Female:

“I say-

Female:

“It depends on the person they ask. When I dropped it in one of my black girl group chats, the emojis were just eye rolls.”

Female:

“I'm not surprised. Not even a little.”

Female:

“It’s heartbreaking and also embarrassing.”

Female:

“Is it like this everywhere? Is it me?”

Female:

“This city will make or break you.”

Female:

“City of black women that are looking around at their outcomes, their future, their past in saying this city makes me anxious.”

Female:

“If anybody's out there listening in Cleveland, please get out.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

On Living For We, we talk to Cleveland's black women from all walks of life, from the CEO of one of our major healthcare systems to self-starting entrepreneurs, judges, lawyers, doctors, artists, students, and mothers who've experienced loss.

We share stories from these women as change makers and architects of their own futures, celebrating their victories, challenges, and personal growth along the way.

So, is it really true what they say? Is Cleveland deserving of the least livable title? And what can we do to make lasting improvements for black women in our city?

I'm Marlene Harris-Taylor, and this is Living For We, a project of connecting the dots between race and health, from Ideastream Public Media.

Male:

“This is a Channel 43 News break.”

Ramona Robinson:

Good evening, I'm Ramona Robinson. Here's the look at some of the stories we're working on tonight for the 10 o'clock news.

Male:

“Ramona Robinson, weeknights on Channel Three News.”

Ramona Robinson:

And I'm Ramona Robinson. Since our exclusive report-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Everyone in Cleveland knows Ramona Robinson, or at least they feel like they do. She's a trailblazer, the first black woman to host a nightly news show in Northeast Ohio. And generations of Clevelanders grew up with her in their living rooms.

Now Ramona, I have to tell you, you're making me feel bad.

Ramona Robinson:

How? Why?

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Because you just look impeccable and flawless as usual.

Ramona Robinson:

Well, I decided to clean up just for you, Marlene. Trust me, I'm not walking around looking like this every day. Well, I decided to put some clothes on and get out of the sweats and look presentable just for your podcast.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Ramona has had a storied career winning eight Emmys over 30 years. She stepped away from local TV news in 2019, but she's still recognized everywhere, just as statuesque, and beautiful as she has accomplished.

Ramona Robinson:

Believe it or not Marlene, I have run out of this house with a ponytail, sunglasses, no makeup. And inevitably someone will say, “Are you Ramona Robinson?”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Ramona is now an author of three books. Her latest is Poor Girl, Rich Life: Discover His Plan to Prosper You. She spends most of her time now traveling and sharing stories about her life through her books.

And who better to kick off our two-episode conversation about black women in the workplace than Ramona? A woman who went to work on our TVs every single day.

On this episode of Living For We, we're talking about the workplace experiences of women who've achieved visibly great heights in their chosen fields and about what they had to do to get there. Even Ramona, everyone's favorite nightly news host, faced some challenges when she arrived in Cleveland.

So Ramona, when you got to Cleveland in the 80s, right?

Ramona Robinson:

Yep. ‘88.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

‘88. And you came in with great fanfare, and you came in as the first black woman-

Ramona Robinson:

To anchor an evening newscast. And I was so excited, so elated that I would make history. First of all, I couldn't believe it because it was 1988. I was like, “Cleveland, you're behind the time.” I was so excited, and I thought the entire city was excited because I was in every newspaper. I was on every radio station. And even before I went on the air, I was just being celebrated.

And then, a few days before Channel 43’s, 10 o'clock news went on the air, I started receiving these letters and I could not believe my eyes. I'll never forget the first letter I received. And it was postmarked Akron.

And the first letter said, “Cleveland has beautiful white anchors. We don't need N anchors like you, go back where you came from.” And they used the N word.

And my heart just sank because I grew up in rural red Missouri, and I had never heard the N word. I grew up a row to a lot of people who described themselves as racist. And so, to see that, and then subsequently I would get more letters and pictures they would cut out of monkeys and gorillas, and it was just horrible.

And every time I would get one, I would cry and every time I'd get a letter, my news director said, bring them into him. He always knew when I had one of those white envelopes, and he'd hand me a box of tissues because he knew it was going to be a cry fest.

Because you have to remember, I was so young. I was in my 20s and I was so far away from home, I didn't know anybody here. I would just cry and go, “Why don't they like me?”

And so, I was just like, took it to the Lord, Lord, what should I do? And Lord, why have you landed me here? You know of all of my sisters, because there are 10 girls in my family, of all of them, Marlene, I am the crybaby. Why have you given me this job?

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

But Ramona, were you scared? I would've been scared.

Ramona Robinson:

I was terrified. I would go on the air, people would write to me and say, “You're doing a good job, but you kind of look terrified.” I had to like, grow some and say, “Uh-uh, I have worked much too hard.” That strong black woman, that my mom raised me to be kicked in. I said, “I have worked too hard to get here. I am not going to let anyone take this away from me.”

And as soon as I said that Marlene, bells went off, and God would open up the windows of heaven and pour me out a blessing that I would not have room enough to receive it. Because literally the next couple of days, I received just an outpouring of support.

Some Polish folks in Parma invited me to the Polish Hall, and I danced the polka with 80-year-olds. A Jewish boy who had a crush on me, invited me to his bar mitzvah. And so many people, and from so many diverse cultures, just wrapped their arms around me and embraced me and showed me that there was so much love in this city.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Ramona says she's happy she endured, but that was not the end of her challenges.

Ramona Robinson:

I found out that the women were being paid a lot less than the male anchors. And once I found this out, I thought, “Not going to sit well with me. Not going to happen.”

And so, I was complaining to my agent at the time, and he was trying to calm me down, saying, “Ramona, that's just how it is. Male anchors in Cleveland are considered king. And that's how it's always been. That's how it's going to be. What they're offering you in this new contract, I think you should sign. Trust me, this is a lot of money for someone like you.”

And I was like, “I am doing the same work as the male anchors across the street, and my ratings now are better than theirs. I have soared to number one in the city, and I'm going to be paid less than them? And that's not going to happen.”

And so, I ended up getting rid of him, and it was the scariest thing that I've done, Marlene. But I had to trust in the Lord. And it was so frightening because I had a lot of responsibilities, not just taking care of myself, but where my mom lived had become unsafe. Drug dealers had started to move in, and so I needed to move her out of that place.

And my girlfriend was living in a drug-infested area, and I was helping her to send her kids to a private school and just a number of responsibilities. Helping my siblings go to college. And I felt like the weight of the world was on me. And so, I said, “No, this is not going to happen anymore. I am not going to accept a lower pay because I am afraid.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, what you're saying though, it sounds to me like you're not surprised that Cleveland was labeled least livable for black women.

Ramona Robinson:

I guess no, I wasn't because it's so hard for us. Women in general make anywhere from 62 to 67%. I think in some areas, maybe white women are at 70% to every dollar a man makes. And black women maybe 67 cents every dollar a man makes.

So, I'm not surprised at all, especially here in Cleveland. I think women, we have to speak up. We have to stop being afraid, and we have to stop staying in dead end jobs where they're not treating us well. Thinking, “Oh well, the grass is probably not greener on the other side.”

Well, maybe it isn't, or maybe it is. But we'll never know, if we stay in the same job 10, 20 years with people mistreating us and not valuing us, you are worthy.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, this study said that Cleveland is the least livable city for black women. So, what's that answer for Ramona? Has Cleveland been the worst city for you as a black woman?

Ramona Robinson:

Oh, definitely not. I'm almost speechless because for me, Cleveland has just been the best part of me. I literally feel like I became a woman in this city. I was a girl when I came here in my 20s, and now I'm a grown woman.

But I know that I have lived a great life for the most part in this city. For a lot of black women, their story is not like Ramona Robinson's. Their story can be one of hardship. I understand how hard it is when you try, and you try and maybe you get a couple of steps forward and then you knock back.

I just say, keep going. Don't stop. You can make it. There is hope. That's the one thing I always have, hope and faith. You just can't give up. That's the one thing I never do. When I want something, I never give up. I always believe in a better day.

And even if I do have those days when I worry a little bit, I let it go. And I find a way to fight. I believe in my Lord and Savior. And so, that's what gets me through. And I believe there's hope in this city. I believe those dire numbers that we see, I know we can change them, but it's going to take all of us. It's going to take all of us to care.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

ChiChi and Bethany of Enlightened Solutions, our friends and reoccurring experts dedicated an entire chunk of their Project Noir research to the issues black women face at work. Income inequality for black women was one of the reasons Cleveland landed at the bottom of the list of the Pittsburgh study.

[Music Playing]

ChiChi and Bethany's research found that 76% of black women said they were paid less than coworkers in similar roles. 77% have been subjected to inappropriate comments about their appearance. And 81% have been placed on a team with no other black employees.

And these are just a few examples of what they heard from black women about the problems in their work lives.

This pressure to be perfectly quaffed, the makeup has to be fierce. You have to look wonderful from head to toe. Let's talk about that a little bit.

ChiChi Nkemere:

When we have an archetype of black women, of being the strong black woman, she is not an individual who's disheveled. She's not an individual that has a hair out of place. Every single baby hair is laid on that forehead, every single hair is perfectly positioned.

You are supposed to look like someone who has overcome everything. Pressure that black women have and this anxiety around it because not only are you going to be pressured by dominant society, but you're also going to be peer pressured by your friends, your family, your social network.

Because if you walk into a room and you're like, “Ooh, Lisa's hair is a little busted, she's in between hair appointments,” folks are going to talk about it. And then position all of those negative attributes onto not only your race, but also your gender as well.

Bethany Studenic:

It cuts both ways too. Some feedback that ChiChi and I have gotten and that we see other people getting is that you're too polished. We can't tell that you need help. We can't tell when you're having a bad time or a bad day because you don't show us.

If you show them, it's like piranhas, people see weakness and then they start saying, “Well, do you really think that she's able to do this? Is she up to the task? Is it this or that?”

So, at the end of the day, you're expected to be perfect, even whenever you're feeling very imperfect. Even when you're feeling like you need a lot of help.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

I actually had a manager say that to me.

Bethany Studenic:

Yep.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

She said, “Marlene, I can never tell when you're stressed because you just seem to just be able to handle things.” And this was like said in a pejorative way.

ChiChi Nkemere:

Of course.

Bethany Studenic:

Right, yeah. That's how we get it too.

ChiChi Nkemere:

You're so perfect that I'm mad at you for being this perfect.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Right, right.

ChiChi Nkemere:

And on top of it, if you weren't perfect, I would exit you from this complete position. Which is why black women have to have these really complex internal lives, which is why we have our sister circles, our group chats, our online spaces, because we can't always trust the folks that are in front of us to be able to care for us in the way that we are expected to care for everybody else's emotions.

[Music Playing]

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Being the only black woman in the workplace can be deeply isolating, especially in white collar jobs. They're literally called white collar. That's also true for women in male dominated fields.

Our next guest, Ariane Kirkpatrick, is working to change that. She's a force, she's small but mighty. A businesswoman, an entrepreneur who's received accolades from business groups and praise in local and national magazines.

She started many businesses over the years, but currently owns a commercial construction company, The AKA Team. She's also the founder of Harvest of Ohio, a medical marijuana dispensary and growth site.

The AKA Team has undertaken massive projects throughout Northeast Ohio, including for the Cleveland Clinic, the Flats East Bank, the Cleveland Museum of Art, and several suburban school systems. She's grown her business in male dominated spaces and succeeded.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

We're just really trying to grow something really big, something really impactful, something for the community. That was always my dream in the beginning. And I have stayed true to my vision. I wanted to make sure that minorities had the opportunity to get into a construction field, something that we weren't really allowed to be in.

And I just can't tell you how proud I am that I've been able to accomplish that goal because you just don't see it.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You don't, and you should be very proud.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Last week I cried. For Women's History Month I said, “Let's go to a construction site. Let's do a photo shoot, then let's take all the women out and let's just fellowship and have a good time.”

103 employees I have, 25 of those were women, black women. Our shirts with Rosie the Riveter, our Rosie the Riveter is a brown Rosie.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Alright Rosie. With success, however, you always have the haters. For years, she's had to contend with people thinking that she can't be achieving all this success on her own, or that she's honestly beating out men for contracts.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

I try my best to be successful strong construction company. And one day an email came across from a community activist, 3/400 sends this email to, and it says, “Congratulations to the front of the year, Ariane Kirkpatrick at AKA Construction Management Team.”

And I'm like, “Wow.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

What Ariane is talking about here is that for years, the state government and some businesses have carved out a small number of contracts that they call minority set asides.

But in some cases, white companies use a workaround where they hire minority contractors or businesses to be a front, to make it appear their company is owned by a minority, when in fact, the contracts really go to white owned businesses.

Ariane says it hurt even more because her biggest critic, the one accusing her of being a front was a black man.

So, that was a huge insult.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Girl.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

For him to call you a front.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Girl, yes. And so, my guys in the — they couldn't understand, “Ariane why are you upset? You know who you are.” But the basis of it was, you hurt me. You hurt my family. You hurt the people and folks that work for me. You took the pride of my company. You made me unhealthy. And that was so many years ago. And I still can't get away from that pain.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

I hear the pain. I feel the pain. So, you're supposed to just blow it off-

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

I’m supposed to just blow it off.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And not worry about it and just let it roll off your back.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

No.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And we're always supposed to just let it roll off our back, right?

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Exactly. And that's what we do as black women, we just let it roll off our back. But bruh, I want you to come say sorry to me. I want you to apologize.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And as she expanded from construction to the lucrative marijuana industry in Ohio, new haters came out of the woodwork.

Ariane says, she is the only black woman in Ohio who was awarded a contract from the state to open a medical marijuana dispensary and growth site. There were a limited number of contracts awarded by the state. And Ariane says some people were not happy that her company came out on top.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

November 30th, 2017, we won our license. And I did not put it on Facebook, or I didn't put it on anything because while my son said they were doing a minority set aside, Ariane from the 60s knew it was going to be a issue.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Your gut, your gut was telling you.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

I knew, my gut told me. On December 2nd, 2017, was when the first negative stories came out. Who is she? Who is she? Some of them had the audacity to call me and say, “Hey, don't take this personal, business is business.”

Or strange calls, “We want to make sure you want to get out of this business.” Just threatening me-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Threatening calls?

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Oh yeah. It was amazing. It was like … when I talk about the dark period-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, you pick up the phone-

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Yeah.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And there's somebody saying, you need to think about getting out of the marijuana business.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Yes, yes.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Wow.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

My little black power stuff before it didn't prepare me for all this man. I literally had dreams or feared that people would come into my house, and I was there. I was like, “What have I done?” And I was thinking, “What have I done to my family? This is just so crazy,” and I'm holding on to saying, I’m harboring.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

But you had crossed some kind of invisible line in some people's minds where you were getting ready to make too much money. That was the problem.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

That's the problem. And money, man, it turns you to something different. It was just so scary. So, so scary. And there were so many times that I wanted to just stop. Can't let your guard down because if you let people know that you're weak, oh my gosh.

When I had my heart attack, everybody found out maybe months afterwards. Some people still finding out.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

How long ago was it when you had the heart attack?

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Last year in July. And my first one was eight days before my 50th birthday. And I didn't want people to know, because it was weakness. I'm down and this is when they going to come get me.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You thought they were coming in for the kill.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Oh, they coming in for the kill. Coming in for the kill. I was scared.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

How much of a factor was stress in that first heart attack?

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Big, like I talked about the brother of the front, when those type of things continuously happened to you, it's not healthy for you.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Despite her fears, she didn't give up. And by the strength of her own convictions, she's creating life-changing opportunities for black women and black people throughout Northeast Ohio.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

I am very instrumental in making sure that I uplift women in my office. Once a week, I will have someone in my office that I'm talking, that I'm mentoring and I'm talking to. 25% of the folks that work at AKA Team are women, that's changing it.

And so, what I'm doing, I'm going to make sure that my peers that I work with, they see that. Because when you see good things, other people say, “Well, I want to do that too.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You had already been doing this anyway. But your reaction to hearing that study was that, you know what? We're not going to march. I'm going to continue to build women up economically.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And we build them up-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Towards the solution to change that.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Yeah. We have competitive salaries. We are an employee of choice. We provide healthcare, life insurance, employee assistance program, educational components. Just because you people say, “Oh, you're just a mom and pop.”

No, we're not my mom, we might be mom and mom and pop in theory where mom and pop going to help you cultivate and grow us to make sure that we're part of the economic stability. That's the mom and pop with us because these are all my babies, whether they're younger or older than me.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

In some ways I understand how you are a little conflicted about it because for you personally, Cleveland is not the worst city.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

For me personally, it isn't. I just want to be a part of the team that makes a difference here. I hate when people just get, “Oh, it's the worst place to live.” Well, let's change that. Let's cross the river. Let's cross the bridge.

And I'm not just talking about from east to west, but west to east. Let's all come together as one. And the things that can't be fixed, let's come up with a recipe to success.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, we can change that. So, the next survey that comes out, Cleveland won't be at the bottom for black women.

Ariane Kirkpatrick:

Exactly. So, all they did was put a challenge in front of me when they did that study. Because we going to change it and we going to change it together.

[Music Playing]

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And we also heard from Ariane this idea that you're a fake, you're a front. There must be somebody else behind this success of yours.

ChiChi Nkemere:

Yeah. Because it's like this, we've laid all of these traps in front of you. We've placed sexist microaggressions in front of you. We have exited you from these professional groups racially. So, how in the world with all of these different things, how could you be successful, truthfully?

The thing that is the most interesting about racism is that it actually reveals more about the dominant group than it does about the minority. It reveals me as a straight white male, I would not have been able to overcome that. I cannot believe that you've been able to overcome this.

So, for her, folks are looking at her as a fake or a front or a phony. It's because that individual would've had a fake or a front or phony.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

It's projection.

ChiChi Nkemere:

It's projection, it's straight projection. And more than that, think about the mental anguish, the emotional anguish, the mental health issues that may arise when you're thinking about yourself and you're saying, wow, am I an imposter?

Even if I believe in myself, even if I see all of the certificates on the wall. What are you actually drinking in, in the deep, dark moments when you're feeling anxiety? What are the things that actually seep underneath your skin? And what are those things that you may start to believe about your own self?

Male:

“First steps of freedom, Jeffrey Ivey just released from jail.”

Female:

“He did more than half of a 90-day sentence for not fixing up this property. A judge finally let him out.”

Male:

“The case led protestors to call out Housing Judge, Monet Scott. Some career criminals don't get locked up, but Ivey did.”

Male:

“I will be working on the house from now until it is complete.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You may have heard about this controversial case in local Cleveland politics, but before we get into the details, let's talk about Judge Monet Scott, the judge involved in this case. We talked to her a few months before this story blew up.

Judge Scott's story began in her hometown of Atlanta. After her parents' divorce, she moved into public housing with her mom and sisters.

Mona Scott:

Being number three of four girls, sometimes your parents reprimand you and they're just like, “I'm not going to figure this out. Everybody getting punished.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Right.

Mona Scott:

And I'm like, “I didn't even do anything. I intentionally didn't do anything because I did not want to get — so, how do you just … I was just like, “That's not fair.”

Going to an elementary school, when we moved there, we were discriminated against just because we lived in low-income housing. It wasn't a race thing; it was a class thing because everybody there was predominantly black.

But I remember the teacher reprimanding us that were in the low-income housing for wearing lip gloss, but the girls who lived in a house with both parents could wear lip gloss. Even at a young age I'm like, “Well, that's not right.”

I remember in third grade we had to write what we wanted to be when we grew up. And I just remember saying, I want to be somebody that determines fairness. That's the only way I could express it.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, when you got to Cleveland, you went to law school, like what was your plan?

Mona Scott:

When I came out it was just like, “Okay, so what do I want to do? And I always wanted to be a prosecutor. I always like law enforcement but not to be a police officer. So, I was-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Those rules, that rule thing.

Mona Scott:

Yeah.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You like those rules, girl.

Mona Scott:

I love rules. Yes.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Okay. So, someone with a love for rules and fairness, you'd think that would make a perfect candidate for a judicial race, right?

But she lost the first race. The second time she was victorious. But even that was a little bittersweet.

[Music Playing]

Mona Scott:

You know what I've noticed is that microaggression, when articles are being written, it is Cleveland Housing Court. They rarely mentioned my name.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

I remember you mentioning that to me and that's really interesting that like with the prior judge, whenever they talked about the Housing Court-

Mona Scott:

You knew.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

It was always his name. And then the Housing Court.

Mona Scott:

Listen, when I won the election, they put his picture in the paper on my win.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

What? You're kidding me.

Mona Scott:

And they glowed him up.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

No, wait a minute, no.

Mona Scott:

Yes, yes.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

You're making this up.

Mona Scott:

Nope. You can still pull the article out.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

On the day that you won.

Mona Scott:

Yeah.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

They did not put your picture in the paper?

Mona Scott:

They didn't put my picture in there and it was just a blur.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

But they talked about the judge leaving?

Mona Scott:

Yeah. And so, these little things still happen. Now I'm more limited on who I give in — because it also takes time away from me being a judge and-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

But it's kind of made you put up this guard like, okay, you know what? They're not going to treat me fairly.

Mona Scott:

Yeah.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

As she moved into her new role as the first woman of any color, elected to serve as Housing Court Judge, she found that it wasn't going to be so easy.

Mona Scott:

Some people just weren't happy that I was there. Who are we getting when we get this-

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Some people just don't like change.

Mona Scott:

Black woman. Definitely, they don't like change. And people weren't happy that I was coming in with my own leadership team. I had people tell me I couldn't do that. And I'm like, “You don't tell the mayor, you don't tell the governor. You don't tell anybody who takes this seat they can't come in with their own leadership team.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, why do you think they were trying to tell you that?

Mona Scott:

Because I'm a black woman and they want comfortability. They want people that's always been there. And I'm like, “I don't know these people and so I want to bring in my own team,” because you have to be comfortable in your workplace.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And there was no rules or anything against you doing that?

Mona Scott:

No.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And you changed some things.

Mona Scott:

I changed a lot.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And they didn't like that. So, remember Jeffrey Ivey that we told you about earlier? Judge Scott faced huge community backlash when after several appearances in her court, Judge Scott decided that Mr. Ivey was not following the rules.

She sentenced him to 90 days in jail. This was unprecedented according to community activists. This was the first time a housing court judge had ever jailed anyone for this amount of time. Not even slum lords have received this sort of penalty.

Male:

“What can you tell us about the Jeffrey Ivey case?”

Male:

“For more than a week, Judge Monet Scott avoided the I-team, but we found her walking into a City Council budget hearing.”

Male:

“Can you at least tell us how many corporate landlords or slum landlords you've thrown in jail? We've been trying to reach you for days.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

During the thick of the controversy, she appeared in front of Cleveland City Council for a different issue. She made these comments while community members were heckling her just a few feet away.

Mona Scott:

“The courts do not belong to individual judges, administrative or presiding. It belongs to the citizens and taxpayers with limitations.

One cannot, should not tell a judge what they think they should do on a matter. Expect a judge to talk to them personally about pending matters that are before the bench. Tell the current judge what the prior judge allowed. Expect immediate interviews about specific non-general pending matters before the court and expect quick access to personally talk to the judge.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Throughout this whole frenzy with Mr. Ivey's sentence, Judge Scott never made a public comment on the case. When we reached out to her and gave her the opportunity to talk about this, she told me that she is “Prohibited from saying anything and thus she is not. This is an active case.”

Mr. Ivey was released from prison after giving Judge Scott a plan detailing how he's going to fix up the property.

Jeffrey Ivey:

“And any inconvenience that I may have caused anyone, well I don't know who it would've been, but if there was any inconvenience, I apologize for that.”

[Music Playing]

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Judge Scott would love it if she got the same kind of media coverage for the positive changes she's made as a judge. Growing up the way she did made her sensitive to people living in precarious housing situations. Some of the changes she's made were aimed at helping those facing evictions.

Mona Scott:

So, I had made a decision for the eviction hearings not to be viewed live. Because you can do that with virtual. You can go live; you can have people just Zoom in.

And so, I said I'm not doing that for evictions because I think people are very vulnerable. This is their lowest times. And I know that there could be somebody who doesn't like you in an apartment building that you're being evicted from, and they'll come on there, they'll screenshot the evidence of the pictures and they'll say, I'm sitting here watching such and such get evicted out their house.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

And gossiping with it.

Mona Scott:

And gossiping.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Sending it around to all their friends.

Mona Scott:

Yep. Sometimes we just want to do stuff different.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

Or do the right thing.

Mona Scott:

That part. Do the right thing. Do the right thing.

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

What do you think we need to make Cleveland more livable for black women in particular?

Mona Scott:

I think we need camaraderie. When I became a judge that I thought was there, was that there would be a sisterhood. Black women on the bench is less than maybe 1%. I knew all of the women judges and I thought that they probably got together and talked to each other and welcomed somebody to the bench and let them know, here's what you need to do to transition.

I only came in and found out none of that was in place and that was kind of bothersome to me because I'm like, okay, we all know each other whether some of us went to school, we worked at prosecutor's office. I just was surprised by that.

[Music Playing]

ChiChi Nkemere:

Black women in Cleveland are suffering from a lack of grace from their colleagues, from their healthcare practitioners. The individuals that are educating them. They're not given that grace.

That lack of grace has contributed to a lot of black women kind of falling in between those cracks. I think it's a double-edged sword. You don't ever want to look like what you've overcome.

What we really want to make sure is that we're not forcing women to have to claw their way up to the top. That we are allowing them a smooth passage meritocracy, actual meritocracy as opposed to this idea that you should suffer as a black woman to get to your next station. That you should be grateful for the scraps that you are thrown.

Bethany Studenic:

In order to be that successful in Cleveland and anywhere as a black woman, you're going to end up with scars. Sure, everybody faces adversity in their lives, but black women are facing adversity after adversity after adversity.

Now we're looking at them and saying, “Aren't you grateful? Aren't you grateful that you got so far? Aren't you grateful that you're here?” “I guess, but I'm beat up along the way.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

So, next time we continue this conversation about the workplace and Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett, our resident psychologist and therapist will be back to give black women strategies for coping at work.

Thank you to everyone who continues to leave us voicemails about their experiences as black women in Cleveland. Here's a message from one of our listeners.

Female:

“Once I got into my collegiate years and especially pursuing a career in STEM, I started to feel more singled out. No one around me looked like me anymore.

Now, as someone that is working in a professional world, I definitely feel as if there are people that are Caucasian, unconscious of the privilege that they hold, they make sure that people like me, other African Americans that hold lower professional positions than I are boxed in.

I would definitely like to see this change for the generations that are coming up after me.”

Marlene Harris-Taylor:

If you're a black woman in Cleveland and want to share your thoughts with us directly, our hotline is open. Leave a voicemail at 216-223-8312. That's 216-223-8312. And you may just hear yourself on the podcast.

Thanks for joining us. You can find more episodes of Living For We on ideastream.org/livingforwe and wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a review on Apple Podcast letting us know what you think about Cleveland and what you are interested in hearing us talk about on the show.

Living For We is part of the Connecting the Dots between Race and Health Initiative from Ideastream Public Media, produced by Evergreen Podcasts and made possible by generous support from the Dr. Donald J. Goodman and Ruth Weber Goodman Philanthropic Fund of the Cleveland Foundation.

The Living For We Team includes myself, Marlene Harris-Taylor, host and executive producer, Hannah Rae Leach, our lead producer, and Hey Fran Hey, as producer and creative director. ChiChi in camera and Bethany Studenic of Enlightened Solutions are our researchers, data analyst and community partners.

We get production help from Stephanie Czekalinski, original music, including our theme song is from Cleveland artist, Afi Scruggs. Our mix engineer is Sean Rule-Hoffman. We'll see you soon.