Catching up with IndyCar team owner Michael Shank

ROGER:

This is Roger Penske and you're listening to Pit Pass Indie, sponsored by Penske Truck Rental.

BRUCE:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcast. I'm your host, Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans and insiders view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport. I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as NBCSports.com, SI.com, ESPN Sports Ticker, Sports Illustrated, Auto Week and Speed Sport. So let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental as we continue our fourth season of giving IndyCar fans a behind-the-scenes look at the NTT IndyCar Series and the drivers and teams that compete in the Indianapolis 500. Because of the Olympic Games in Paris and the fact IndyCar's television partner at NBC was broadcasting the games, IndyCar Series teams and drivers got a rare break in the schedule for this point in the season. Pit Pass Indy didn't take any time off, however, as the show continued to give IndyCar fans exclusive interviews with the biggest names in the series. That continued during the Olympic break, which concluded on August the 11th. It's time to get back to the track for the teams and drivers in the NTT IndyCar Series. This week, it's off to Worldwide Technology Raceway in Madison, Illinois for the Pomerito Automotive Group 500. It starts a strong oval portion of the season as four of the final five races will be on oval tracks. Saturday night's race will be followed by the final road race of the season in the August 25th Bint Nile Grand Prix of Portland at Portland International Raceway. After that, it's back to the Obels the following weekend as the NTT IndyCar Series returns to the Milwaukee Mile for the first time since 2015 in the Hy-Vee Milwaukee Mile 250s. It will be two races on the famed Milwaukee Mile Obel, including Saturday night, August 31st, and a day race on Sunday, September 1st. IndyCar will conclude the 2024 season with the Big Machine Music City Grand Prix on September 15th. This year's race will shift to Nashville Super Speedway, a 1.33 mile oval located about 45 miles from downtown Nashville in Lebanon, Tennessee. The change in venues was made because of construction on the new Tennessee Titan Stadium, which will take up most of the area available for the race course until the stadium for the NFL team is completed. Our guest on this episode of Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental is team owner Michael Shank, who co-owns Meyers Shank Racing with his partner, Jim Meyer. Meyers Schenck Racing features a two-driver lineup that includes veteran Felix Rosenquist and exciting young driver David Maloukas. Schenck shares some interesting thoughts on his team's season in 2024, the struggles with the IndyCar hybrid engine, his team's return to IMSA in 2025, and why it's important for IndyCar teams to have a charter system in my exclusive interview for PitPass Indy. With only four races left in the season, our next guest is going to try to have one of his cars win one of them. It's IndyCarSeries team owner Michael Schenck of Meyer Schenck Racing. Michael, we're coming up on a very busy culmination of the season, and how do you see your team at the moment being in a position to close out the season strongly?

MICHAEL:

Yeah, okay, so we're positioned very well to finish the season, I think, Bruce, and The biggest thing that we look at is just kind of where we are today to where we were last year, which was really in a difficult place last year. So we've made gains in every department and we're really proud of that. And we think going into this kind of oval section of life here, we've got two of the right guys in the cars and we're ready to get going.

BRUCE:

Now how do you feel about the dynamic that the season started halfway through the year without the hybrid assist engine and then in the middle of the year the hybrid assist engine gets put into the car and it's going to somewhat mix up the dynamic a little bit for one of the teams fighting for the championship but what's it been like for your team to do the switch over mid-season?

MICHAEL:

If I'm being honest Bruce, it's been a bit painful. Uh, there's a lot of good things about it, but you know, we had a hybrid failure, um, at the last race with, uh, Felix and, um, we were at, sorry, at, um, you know, was that Toronto at Toronto? Yes. And, uh, that was not good. And, um, it really hurt our weekend with Felix, unfortunately. Um, so I know that there's going to be teething as we go along here. So unfortunately we got caught out on that. Um, not ideal, but we'll get through it.

BRUCE:

But the fact of bringing the hybrid assist in a lot of people, especially Honda thought it was very important to the series from a team owner standpoint to make that dramatic of a change mid season. What are the team owners think?

MICHAEL:

I, again, I think it's less than idea, but we had to do exactly what you said. We had to do it. We, we value our OEMs in our series and we, and if this is what they need and somehow we need to make it work and we are, we will, and it's going to have some tough spots here and there, but it'll, they'll come around here shortly, I think, and it'd be good. I think if you're vying for the championship, it could be interesting. It could really have an effect on a potentially, but this is the future. This is where we're going. We just got to get

BRUCE:

this year where they start of the schedule, the end of the season, there's going to be a lot of ovals on the schedule between now and the championship. And just by positioning them, does that rearrange or change the dynamic of the way a lot of teams approach the champion?

MICHAEL:

I would have said no to that, but it may it may ultimately we may have to rethink our schedules going forward, how we account from an oval heavy section, especially toward the end. Um, right now we haven't really, uh, impacted us too bad, but I, I can see a place where it would have to. Yeah.

BRUCE:

You talked to Roger Penske, the owner of IndyCard. You talked to a lot of the team owners and they'll genuinely say IndyCar needs more ovals. With that being said, is it a position where IndyCar pretty much has to take the ovals when they're available? Because a lot of times some of the ovals that they race at may not be available or ideally be suited on a schedule earlier in the year.

MICHAEL:

We don't need more ovals. We need more events, events that people want to come to and follow us. If it was Ovals, then it would be Ovals. Or if it's street courses, then it needs to be that. In my opinion, it needs to be more street-like events that we have throughout our calendar. I truly see those as the most successful, in my opinion.

BRUCE:

But those cost a lot of money and you have to have big backing and a city that's willing to support that. And isn't that one of the more difficult things in trying to create a schedule that has more street races?

MICHAEL:

I think, I think it can be, and, uh, it can be tricky. You're right. Um, however, I do see those as the most. Um, successful with regard to crowd participation and having more than just a race there to do something with for me. And now I think if you look at what, uh, those guys are doing at Nashville right now, it's kind of more shadows group. I think they're, they're trying to really kick it up a notch for oval racing with regard to not only attract stuff, but like downtown Nashville, I think they're trying to make it an event, you know? And that'll be interesting to see how that goes. But for me, it's more about creating an event for people to come and see. I personally don't need any more ovals on the series than we have. We have plenty right now, in my opinion. So what are we at? Is it 25% of the races are ovals right now, Bruce? I'm not sure.

BRUCE:

Something like that. Uh, but a couple of those are also double headers. We've had double headers at Iowa and also double headers at Milwaukee, which next year we'll go to being a single race rather than a double header race. And then of course, until the Nashville downtown situation is sorted out with the construction of the Tennessee Titan stadium, the big machine music city grand prix will be held at Nashville super speedway for a while. It's not 25% of the schedule is at ovals, but perhaps 25% of the races are on ovals. Sure. But with that being the way it is, IndyCar likes to promote itself as being the most diverse series in racing. So don't you want to test your driver's skill at a variety? What do you feel is a good percentage of road course, street course ovals?

MICHAEL:

Well, personally, I think we're at a good mix right now for me. And the reason for that being, I just, the most success I've seen, except for the Indy 500 auto have been on street courses. First road courses. Second, if you look at the road America event this year and the crowd supported that it's phenomenal. Uh, if you look at, uh, at what we did at St. Pete this year, another, you know, another version of people carrying and coming to the event, long beach, same thing. Um, the oval things for me, I have not proven themselves. to really show strength in IndyCar and current IndyCar racing with regard to participation from fans. I know people, the hardcore group, follow it and like it. So we do it, and I get why we do it. It's part of the history.

BRUCE:

But what about the support and the combination of events that Hy-Vee brought into Iowa and some of the things we may see with the Wisconsin State Fair Board opening up the State Fair Park and the other venues for the IndyCar race?

MICHAEL:

Well, of course, what Hy-Vee's done is remarkable to me. I mean, like the way they've amped it up there. I mean, hell, just me going to a Hy-Vee store is an incredible experience. I ate lunch there last month when I was there. I think it's great. And I think it's great what they've tried to do there, but I still see empty seats there. And I don't understand that. Even with the absolute top of the heap Um entertainment, uh, they bring in and we still don't have a sold out My opinion doesn't look like a sold out venue to me and that makes me question what we're doing sometimes Um, no question about the partnership with ivy though Now a lot of people have wanted to see indycar return to the milwaukee mile for quite some time

BRUCE:

I know that may have predated you to some degree. You weren't participating in the series the last time IndyCar ran there back in 2015. What do you see as maintaining some of the history and heritage of a place that was really part of the IndyCar schedule since 1939?

MICHAEL:

That's a tricky question. I know that at least three different groups have owned the rights to Milwaukee in the IndyCar race there, and none of them succeeded. And there's a reason for that. And listen, I hope this gets us out of it, you know, this new group now and how they're doing it with IndyCar doing it and all that. But it hasn't proven to be the case in the past that I've seen. Time will tell on that. I think it's good for history, for sure, to do stuff that we've always done. But also, I'm ready to try new things, too.

BRUCE:

as far as gateway, that's the next race coming up this weekend. It's going to be a Saturday late afternoon start. I believe it'll be around five, five 30 start locally for that still. Could be a pretty hot part of the day and also with the sun the way it is, it's not really truly a night race as much as it is an evening race. But what do you see as what we can expect this week at the Pomerito Automotive Group 500 at Worldwide Technology Raceway?

MICHAEL:

That's a great question. And from what I'm understanding now, we have a track with the current, with our, as we sit here today in the arrow configuration, we're going to run, uh, with zero tire degradation, which means once you get rolling, you kind of are where you are. It's going to be hard to really, really hard to pass. Now. I've heard people tell me that in the past and we actually ended up passing. So I guess we'll see, but when you have a zero day tire on a track, and the only passing will happen is during pit stop exchanges. That's what I'm afraid of. So let's see what I'm wrong and we'll go from there.

BRUCE:

What do you see as being the reason why this year we've seen tire deg issues? We used to have a formula where there was a lot of passing throughout the field on ovals. And now since the advent of the hybrid assist engine with a different tire compound, We've seen less of that. What do you see as being the reason for that?

MICHAEL:

Well, you just kind of said it, even though you maybe didn't know, you know, we got a car that is heavier than we had before. So they had to come up with a tire that's more durable. And I think they're still working on trying to figure some of that out. To be honest, Bruce, I don't think we're done. Right. I think there's more options to look at or just kind of at a time. Um, but you know, we've got a bigger map and different weight distributions. Um, and it's, and obviously the competition is so close now, it's really hard to get off off of each other.

BRUCE:

You know, everyone's so very close, but with the extra weight, it's kind of amazing when you think that an extra a hundred pounds can have such a dramatic impact on a race car, but we're seeing that this year with the hybrid assist. Yeah. So what can be done outside of. getting a new car that can solve that?

MICHAEL:

That's a good question. I'm going to leave that to most of the engineers, most of the engineers out there. I don't totally know the answer to that. If it's a combination of compounding or downforce, downforce and compounding that we just haven't hit yet on an oval specifically. I don't know that, but I'm assuming that the resolution will be somewhere in the middle.

BRUCE:

They keep talking about making certain parts of the car lighter, but sometimes when you make a component of the car lighter, does that also take away from some of its structural integrity?

MICHAEL:

Almost always.

BRUCE:

So then how big of a concern does that become?

MICHAEL:

It's very concerning. You know, you got to watch pushrod strength and different steering components from a low, you know, situation. bell crank, things that see these additional downforce loads on ovals, you know, and either redesign or some new fresh material we don't know about yet. About the only way to solve it.

BRUCE:

You were involved in a hybrid project in IMSA and see how that system works. It's a much heavier system because those are heavier cars. I was told by somebody who's competed in both that the battery on an IMSA car weighs about 145 to 150 pounds, whereas the entire hybrid assist unit in an IndyCar weighs about 100 pounds. So you couldn't really compare apples to apples in that type of comparison. What do you see as being maybe the right way to go about this hybrid project?

MICHAEL:

Well, um, the way I'm so on about it was really, really, really good actually. And then it was a little tough at first. And we were there right from the beginning on that process with accurate. And, um, there was a lot to learn right away. It's a powerful system, much more powerful, capable system enough that, you know, we leave on full electric and right. We can leave the pit lane on full electric and bump, start the car and get going, which is quite a capability, you know, and have a lot more tuning options also on that. But that's okay. With the current IndyCar, they had to go to hybrid. They had to come up with a way to do that without redesigning the car for now, for now, okay? And I think they've kind of done the best they can for right now in a very, very limited amount of space and time, you know.

BRUCE:

In IMSA, when hybrid technology or when electrification came on board, it changed the pit stop calculations, how long a tank of fuel would last. We haven't really seen that yet in IndyCar. Would you agree that that's something that's a little bit surprising?

MICHAEL:

No, because for me, no, it hasn't, because it's just not powerful enough to really to really alter that too much.

BRUCE:

Do you hear that there could be talk of making it put out a little bit more power?

MICHAEL:

I think there is some talk of that, but I don't know any detail, to be honest with you. But I've heard some people talk about I know it's I believe it's more capable than where they have it just to get it going. But it could be.

BRUCE:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

JOSEF:

Hey, everyone, this is two time Indy 500 winner Josef Newgarden, and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

BRUCE:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental. Here's the rest of my exclusive interview with IndyCarSeries team owner Michael Schenck. So switching gears here, let's talk a little bit about your team. You started out coming into IndyCar step by step with a limited program. You grew into it year by year. Then the big year, 2021 Elio Castroneves becomes a four-time Indianapolis 500 winning driver in a Meyer Schenck car. We know what a huge day that was in the history of your team. Since then, as you've tried to build into not only a full-time IndyCar series team, but a competitive championship contender, I guess you would say as a team owner, that's where the real struggle begins because that's tough to go up against this type of competition on a regular basis.

MICHAEL:

Yeah, very, very tough. You said, yeah, you know, you said a lot and all that, but it's all very true. I, I can tell you that, uh, everything was going, everything was going along pretty well considering how we came into this very gradual and very on purpose. And then we got fortunate enough to win that 500. You're right. But it's been kind of tough to get consistently top 10 positioning where we want to be. Now, having said that, uh, 2023 would have been our worst year in IndyCar, unfortunately, for lots of different reasons. And we had to regroup after that. And I can tell you that as I sit here today, we have reached a lot of the goals we set for ourselves already this year. I think Bruce, in fact, checked me on this, but I think we've been, for both cars, we've been in the fast six, 10 times this year, if you count thermal. And one of the ovals we qualified fifth on Iowa one, I think, or Iowa two. You know, so our qualifying speed has got back to where it is. We need to work on, you know, tightening up our race results still. But already we're ahead of where we were by a lot last year. So that's good. Okay. Now, as we go forward, we got to continue to build on that and, uh, consistently strive to be in that top 10 and get toward, figure out a way to get in the top five, you know, to, to be in the top five right now, you have to win at least two races a year. You have to win two races. So to do that is, and think about all the cars you would have to beat the quality of those cars you'd have to beat is ridiculous. So all I can do is focus on what we know our program. pick out the weaknesses and work on and that's what we intend to do and we are doing.

BRUCE:

You picked out some of the weaknesses by changing your lineup. How much of a calming influence veteran stability? You had two veterans on the team last year. You needed a little bit of infusion of youth. You've got that to some degree. Felix isn't exactly one of the younger drivers, but Felix Rosenquist is in his thirties and he brings a very steady workmanlike effort to his craft. How much is the addition of Felix Rosenquist really helped the entire team?

MICHAEL:

You know, it's helped a lot. It's helped a lot. And when we hired Felix, we knew that he had the pure raw speed to get the job done. And that's what we needed to start with that. So he had that. And it immediately showed at St. Pete when we qualified P2 by whatever it was, 2000s or 3000s. And I thought, OK, this is exactly why we did this. And, but he's also helped just the way he fit into the team and work with the team. He's really laid back and we've really tried to manage this year, this beginning year expectations. We've had, you know, unfortunately we've had mechanical, we've had some engine issues, we've had Uh, we've had a, the big one, which was a hybrid failure about last couple of weeks ago in Toronto. We've had some bad luck in that regard with him, but, um, he's doing what we asked him to do big time. And then when we brought, um, uh, Lucas in, I mean, he immediately transferred once on the first race. And then he's been in the fast six twice and just finished six with Toronto. So we haven't seen the best of him yet. And he's still bringing that risk back into health too, which is great. So. We got a good combination of where we'd like to be right now and how we'd look in the future.

BRUCE:

You began the season with IMSA star Tom Blomquist, who was one of the fastest drivers in sports car racing throughout his career. Didn't seem to really adapt to the IndyCars as well as he would have liked, you would have liked. Were you surprised by that?

MICHAEL:

I was, yeah, I, yeah, I was, I was hit for him. Now remember Thomas, you know, Thomas still in our life right now. He's, you know, he's a big part of us still and we'll be going forward, but, um, uh, it was a little surprising. I w you know, I was bummed out, but that, you know, it doesn't mean IndyCars for everybody. Right. And I had to get that through my head and he had to get that through his head. It just wasn't working for whatever reason. And we had to make a change, and we did. And it's worked exactly like we'd hoped to this point. And we'll see where Tom goes going into the future here with us, but I'm looking forward to it.

BRUCE:

but yet by a bizarre set of circumstances, which I guess you could trace all the way back to Alex Polo and Errol McLaren telling them he wasn't going to join the team, then they went and hired David Maloukas, then Maloukas breaks his wrist in a mountain biking accident in February, Misses the first four races of the year. Errol McLaren terminates his contract with the team. Suddenly makes him available for you to be able to get one of the prized fast young stars, potential stars in IndyCar. When you think of how all those circumstances had to play themselves out, it really does go to show sometimes a lot of success is serendipitous.

MICHAEL:

Yeah, I don't even know how to begin. I mean, everything you just said there might be tied to Palu. I don't know. But yes, it is. And I'm just glad it did. And sometimes the freakiest things happen and like they're meant to happen. And I'm grateful for the way it's turned out so far. And I'm really curious for the next five, four or five weeks here to see where we go with everything and what's possible with them.

BRUCE:

But when you first heard that David Maloukas had fractured his wrist in a mountain biking accident in February, you probably didn't think he was going to be driving your car in June.

MICHAEL:

No. In fact, I thought, well, yeah, well, that was silly. He shouldn't be on a mountain bike. That's like, I can't believe he finally gets a huge break and a huge opportunity and that happens. But didn't think any more, not even a little bit, Bruce. You know, you try to keep talking to people. You always keep talking. Even if it doesn't work out today, it can work out a year from now or 18 months from now. So I always try to keep that bridge wide open.

BRUCE:

So have you gotten him to avoid any risky off-track ventures such as mountain biking, water skiing, or maybe even attending Ohio State football tailgate events before a game?

MICHAEL:

Yeah, I've banned them in our contracts going forward. Well, listen, we won't ever want to use the, we all have rare opportunities. You're racing cars for a living. We don't want to lose it over doing something stupid.

BRUCE:

Speaking of rare opportunities to race cars for a living, you're going to return to IMSA with Acura in 2025, and to be able to be their lead team once again, how important is that for you and the entire operation?

MICHAEL:

It was my number one goal this year, was to win that business back, which we did. And I'm eternally grateful for everybody at HRC for renewing their faith in us. I can tell you we're spending a ton of time working on this program for the last six weeks, I would say, and going into the off-season here. It's the core, the basis of who we are. And I'm really happy and really proud. And I'm telling you, when we go to Daytona, it's going to be a dogfight. I cannot wait.

BRUCE:

What should we expect different out of this generation arrangement with Acura compared to the prior time? You had a lot of success with them previously, but what should we expect differently?

MICHAEL:

And most of all the people were there also, a lot of them anyways. The only thing real different is that they have an engineering group on the second car, an engineering group. The rest of the people on that team were all MSR people. But a real close collaboration of close-knit people that communicate constantly with each other, make good decisions together we hope. And, um, and just try to win races and championships for accurate. That's our goal. I mean, everyone says that, but we're going to do it. And I don't know what year we'll be.

BRUCE:

How tough was this season in terms of being parked from the IMSA program, not being able to participate, but just keep that side humming along a little bit on the back burner before you could really get back in?

MICHAEL:

It really sucked. It was really terrible, to be honest with you, and especially in January. during the Rolex 24, you remember Bruce, I'd been there 20 straight years, 20 straight years and won three of the times overall. And you know, it's it was tough. It was humbling to say the least. So we're, we're just grateful we're back and we're ready to go and we will be ready. We're going to be out, out on the track in November and and then getting geared up to go to the Daytona, you know, third week of January.

BRUCE:

Do you have your full driver lineup completed?

MICHAEL:

Not totally yet, but it is coming and we'll be talking about that very, very soon.

BRUCE:

Now switching back to IndyCars, you've been a big proponent in the charter system. Mark Miles has spoken with each team owner individually, did that at the end of June out at Laguna Seca. It seems like talking to other people on other teams, such as my call at Chip Ganassi Racing, seems that everything is together, just hasn't been signed. Where do you stand on things right now? You've been a huge proponent of having a charter system.

MICHAEL:

Yeah, this is my number one thing out all of racing right now. We have got to get this done for, for the IndyCar ownership groups. It is a tough, tough deal here. It is not NASCAR. You know, we, we, you know, we do not have a kind of the valuation that they do today. And, um, we need this for everybody that has invested heavily. I think for our future to keep, um, I would say we're, I would agree with my call. I mean, we're, we're not signed yet. But we're right there. We all have, uh, copies of it. We're all going through it right now. Um, and I look forward to, you know, signing here momentarily and, um, and getting on with our life here.

BRUCE:

Are there any of the details of the charter system that are new, that were, that are different than what has been previously discussed?

MICHAEL:

No, no, it's exactly as we all have gone back and forth and back and forth a million times. We just need to get this thing done now. If we need to tune it up later on because of some things we've found, then we'll do that. But we just need to get this done so we can move on. I think Miles has done a huge job of trying to get this together, because you can imagine 10, 11 different personalities all want different things and getting them in that same area. I mean, look at NASCAR. They're struggling to get their stuff, right? And it's a real challenge. It's not easy.

BRUCE:

but does it include any tweaks to the Indianapolis 500? Because originally a lot of teams wanted to be locked into the field for the Indianapolis 500 so that they could tell their sponsors you're in the Indy 500 regardless.

MICHAEL:

Yeah. I'm going to let, I'm going to let miles tell you when the time is right, but I'm going to tell you everything's going to be fine. Everyone's going to be happy.

BRUCE:

It's another thing Mike Hall said, this is the time of year where it would be important to have the charters agreed to because this is the time of year where you're knocking on doors, renewing contracts with sponsors, and this is when a charter would be very valuable, more so in July and August than in November and December and January.

MICHAEL:

Yeah, you're right. And that's why we're getting close to being done. So we're almost there. And, uh, and we will get there shortly. And, uh, that'll be eminent. That news will be eminent.

BRUCE:

Finally, to wrap up, uh, final four races coming up here on NBC. They've been a tremendous partner of IndyCar. Done a great job with their production. They've really made it a top level broadcast. Next year, a new era is going to dawn. It's all going to move to Fox Sports. There'll be 19 network opportunities on Fox Sports, counting the 17 race schedule, plus the two days of qualifications at the Indianapolis 500. They're all going to be on the same network. So now that you've had a chance to hear how all that's going to fall into play, what are your thoughts on that?

MICHAEL:

Well, number one, the first thing you said, I could not agree more. NBC and the group of Lee Diffie running that thing and all the folks in the background have done a tremendous job. And I, you know, I was sorry to see that they all couldn't come to terms, but the Fox deal is humongous for us. To be able to go to a boardroom, any boardroom that we're dealing with and tell them what our exposure package looks like is huge. And so I'm grateful for that. And I give that to Roger and to miles that they prioritized, this is the number one thing to make sure we're on national TV every single time that they got it. And I congratulate them and look forward for us to bring results for our partners, you know.

BRUCE:

And finally, wrapping up here with Michael Schenck of Meijer Schenck Racing, when you go into the end of the 2024 season, I don't want to ask you to grade yourself as a team, but there's been some positive signs. There's been some negative signs. How in all would you gauge the way this season's gone?

MICHAEL:

Depending on how we finish. But if we finished as we are today, I would say we're a C or C plus maybe. Okay, and that's it. And I last year we're at D, okay, or D minus, right? So we've definitely improved, but we've got lots of roadway to get better. But I see that as where we're at. We're right in the middle of the road, or maybe a little upper side of the mid road. But until we finish consistently seventh to 10th, or maybe knock on the top five consistently, I won't be satisfied. We deserve to be there. We can get there. We just got to get the right combination. And I want to say that, Bruce, you know, sometimes, you know, you think you have the right groups together and ultimately you don't. And that's kind of on us, the management myself. Sometimes it just doesn't work like it should, like you think it should on paper. And I'm working toward getting it to work all the time.

BRUCE:

Well, Michael Shank, it's certainly been an interesting season, not only for you, but for IndyCar in particular. We're coming up here on the checkered flag for last race of the season in about a month. Good luck the rest of the way, and thank you for joining us today on Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Run.

MICHAEL:

Thanks, Bruce.

BRUCE:

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy. We want to thank our guest, IndyCarSeries team owner Michael Schenck of Meyers Schenck Racing, for joining us on today's podcast. Along with loyal listeners like you, our guest helped make Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental, your path to victory lane in IndyCar. On the highways, the raceways, and every pit stop in between, Penske Truck Rental keeps you moving forward. Gain ground with Penske. For more IndyCar coverage, follow me at X, previously known as Twitter, at BruceMartin, one word, uppercase B, uppercase M, underscore 500. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcast. A special thanks to our production team, executive producers are Bridget Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin, and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcast.com. Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.