Deep dive with Chip Ganassi Racing Managing Director Mike Hull

Bruce Martin:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen podcast. I'm your host, Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass is to give racing fans an insider's view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport.

I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as nbcsports.com, si.com, ESPN Sports Ticker, Sports Illustrated, Autoweek, and Speed Sport. So let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy.

Welcome to this week's edition of Pit Pass Indy. Today's episode takes a deep dive into Chip Ganassi Racing and the NTT IndyCar Series with Chip Ganassi Racing managing director Mike Hull. If this man had a nickname, it would be The Professor, because of his interesting outlook on all forms of IndyCar, both past and present. Hull oversees team owner Chip Ganassi's impressive racing operation that includes the four driver NTT IndyCar Series team featuring six time IndyCar Series Champion Scott Dixon, 106th Indianapolis 500 winning driver Marcus Erickson, 2021 IndyCar series Champion Alex Palou, and New Zealand rookie driver Marcus Armstrong. Chip Ganassi Racing also features a highly potent Cadillac V-LMDh team in the IMSA WeatherTech Sports Car Championship. That team will also compete in the seven FIA World Endurance Championship races in 2023. Before we get to our deep-dive interview with Mike Hull, however, IndyCar made two major announcements last week that will have an impact on the series moving forward.

The first was the decision to move forward with the 2.2 liter engine with a hybrid assist component beginning in 2024. Originally, the engine package for 2024 was going to include a 2.4 liter engine with the hybrid assist component that was expected to boost engine horsepower near 1000 horsepower. Currently, IndyCar is operated with two engine manufacturers, including Honda, which began with the series in 2003, and Chevrolet, which rejoined the series in 2012. Because the IndyCar lineup has increased to 27 to 28 cars on the grid at most races, it created a supply shortage that would've been financially and logistically difficult for Honda and Chevrolet to meet. In order to make the supply chain work while keeping the engine lease charged to the IndyCar team's low, a third engine manufacturer was necessary. Without a third OEM, IndyCar and its stakeholders have agreed to move forward with the 2.2 liter engine with the hybrid assist component added to the package in 2024.

The other big news was the announcement of an IndyCar reality show. 100 Days to Indy. IndyCar is hoping this reality show helps the series in the way Drive to Survive has created unbelievable awareness and growth in Formula One. Penske Entertainment, owners of IndyCar and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, announced on December 8th that Penske Entertainment and a six part docu-series will air in primetime on the CW network. The series will be produced by Penske Entertainment and Vice Media Group. The six part series will take fans behind the scenes to chronicle the bold and brash personalities of the NTT IndyCar Series as they begin the 2023 season and start their epic quest for racing's greatest prize. It will air on the CW network in primetime in spring 2023. Pit Pass Indy will have more about that exciting reality TV series on future episodes.

But now, let's hear from Chip Ganassi Racing managing director Mike Hull in this exclusive interview for Pit Pass Indy. Joining us now on Pit Pass Indy is the managing director of Chip Ganassi Racing, Mike Hull. Mike, it's the off-season, but there's never an off-season in your job. A lot going on here at Chip Ganassi racing, including the hiring of a new driver, Marcus Armstrong. So if you could just tell our listeners a little bit about what's been going on here lately.

Mike Hull:

Thanks, Bruce. Yeah, we just, we've been working away. As you said, there isn't really an off-season for us at Chip Ganassi racing. It's more of an on-season, frankly. For me personally, I've been traversing the world doing all kinds of things for Chip as I always do, and I look forward to being able to go to the racetrack, because that's what I signed up for a long time ago. So it's a little disappointing we're not racing 12 months a year, because I would prefer to do that some days than some of the other administrative tasks that I do. But generally, we have a lot of people working on the Cadillac program in sportscar racing. That's a big thing for us going forward. Our IndyCar program is going ahead full steam, full speed ahead and Extreme E also, for that matter. So we better wear sunglasses here.

Bruce Martin:

A lot of people wondered if you would remain a four car team when Jimmy Johnson had made his decision that he was stepping away from IndyCar or from full-time racing, but you're back with a four car effort. 48's now going to become the 11. How important was it to keep that fourth entry?

Mike Hull:

I think it's important to keep the people side of our business working well. The people resource is certainly not undervalued here at Chip Ganassi racing, and we put a great degree of respect for the people that work for us as groups of people. And that group of people is learning, growing and doing a great job. And they did a terrific job for Carvana and Jimmy. There's no question about that, and we want to keep that intact and keep it rolling. And in today's form of Motorsports and IndyCar Motorsports that we do, with not having a plentiful amount of track time or track testing, team testing or private testing, having four entries that work as one, which is what we do here, is extremely important because we gather so much more insight into how to make our product better.

Bruce Martin:

Were you surprised that he decided to become a stakeholder of a NASCAR team?

Mike Hull:

You know what, getting to know Jimmy, I'm not surprised by anything he does. But what I respect about Jimmy is the fact that what he takes on, he's all in. It's all hands and feet. He jumps in there and he thinks it through. He works really hard at it, but he doesn't leave a stone unturned, and he will make where he's going to be in NASCAR a better place to be because he's part of it.

Bruce Martin:

Now, looking at Marcus Armstrong, 23-year-old driver from New Zealand, a lot of people say he's got tremendous talent. What is it about him that made you and Chip decide he'd be a really good fit?

Mike Hull:

His enthusiasm, number one. His positive energy, number two. And his experience, combined with those two things with what he's achieved already at 23 years old, is pretty important. And giving him an opportunity that, it's not fair to say that he or anybody else in motor racing deserves an opportunity, but when opportunity comes along, you want them to take full advantage of it, and he's ready to take advantage of it.

Bruce Martin:

Of course, with your four driver operation, it starts with the driver of the number nine, six-time IndyCar Series champion Scott Dixon. The guy doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. In fact, there's sometimes he looks like he's even faster than ever. What is it about Scott that makes him a leader by example?

Mike Hull:

That he doesn't take anything for granted. That he has a very open mind. That with that open mind. He is always looking for ways to do it slightly differently than he did it even yesterday, or at the last race, or last year. I was particularly impressed with him at Indianapolis this year. The way he went about racing there, and he's always done a really good job there, but it was very, very evident that he had come as a student of racing at Indianapolis, and a student with his eyes wide open, and that's what he continues to do. He's hard to keep up with. So, he doesn't mail it in. He works at it and it's been a great, great time to be able to do that with him.

Bruce Martin:

The other great thing about the past season would be the emergence of Marcus Erickson, the winner of the 106th Indianapolis 500. A lot of people only really knew of him as a Journeyman Formula 1 driver when he came to the United States to try IndyCar a couple of years ago. But he's really developed in quite a driver, a guy who was a championship contender all the way to probably the second-to-last race of the year.

Mike Hull:

I don't look at him as a... I understand the word Journeyman, but I believe based on what Marcus has done here at Chip Ganassi racing, that if he were in Louis Hamilton's car, his career path would've been totally different in Formula 1. He has the ability, he has the mindset, he has the mental acuity to understand how to chase the racetrack with the resource, and he doesn't carry it all by himself. He understands the team ethic, very, very conclusively. And I think that he's proving that. He's proven what he probably should have been able to demonstrate in Formula 1. And I think if you ask him, he'll tell you, if he'd had an opportunity to be on a team that had an equal resource to the people that are currently winning in that championship, that he would've been there.

Bruce Martin:

And then of course, a driver who in the last race of the year proved just how fast and talented he really is as the 2021 champion. Alex Palou, he caused you a little bit of heartburn off the track during the 2022 season with his contract situation, but he's back, he'll be there. And I'm sure that you expect him to be out there putting up some big numbers again in 2023.

Mike Hull:

No doubt. No doubt Alex Palou will shake it up this year quite a bit, and we're looking forward to it. There's no question that he has the ability. He has the fortitude and the way that he utilizes his mind to drive a lap before he ever does is pretty special.

Bruce Martin:

Does it amaze you a little bit about how he can shut out the noise and focus when he is in the car? Because a lot of drivers last year, if they were involved in a similar situation as his, might have let that get to him and it may have affected their ability behind the wheel. But Alex was fast and he remained fast, and we can all see why Chip wanted to keep him.

Mike Hull:

Yeah, no. I think sports generally, motor racing in particular that we're talking about, that is the separation point, isn't it? The ability to be able to mentally control yourself first. Because in motor racing you cannot control what's around you. You can only control what you can control. It sounds like a simple truism, but that's reality. And that's what he can do, and that's what separates him. Think about the great athletes in other sports that have done that. They all have that in common.

Bruce Martin:

Last year we saw the reemergence of Team Penske. It's always pretty much been a battle between Chip Ganassi racing and Team Penske. Some years you might have Andretti Autosport in there. Last year it seemed like it was Arrow McLaren SP that supplanted Andretti Autosport. So the field is very competitive. How much more competitive do you expect that next season?

Mike Hull:

I don't think you should discount anyone. Number one, you use the word reemergence for Penske racing. Hey, they've always been there. They didn't just come out of the woodwork. Those guys are there and they're a formidable, formidable group of people.

Bruce Martin:

They're little bit like Alabama and college football. If they don't win the national championship, people wonder what's wrong with them.

Mike Hull:

And we've been really, really lucky to be able to race against them, and not in the same race that they're in, but actually race wheel-to-wheel against them. And when it's all said and done, congratulate them when they win, and they do the same for us. I like our chances. I like their chances. But I don't discount everybody else that's on the grid because the Series is full of great teams, great drivers and stability now. And that enhances competition.

Bruce Martin:

Is it deeper now than anytime you've been involved in rather it be CART or IndyCar?

Mike Hull:

I think it's comparative to CART. I suppose we'll be able to look back someday and answer your question. I think we're too close to it at the moment, with the quality of the people that are on the grid today. But the quality is really, really strong. And I think it's because the owner group has stepped up. And when you step up, it means you find, or you search the world to find better drivers. You search the world to find better crew members. You search the world to find people to help you train those people more effectively. And you have great partners. Great commercial partners, great manufacturing partners, and they step up their game. Let's face it, whatever company it might be, PNC as an example, they're in a very, very competitive marketplace. They operate the same way Chip Ganassi Racing does. They're competitors, and competitors come into motor racing for that very reason.

They want to understand what makes a competitive atmosphere work, and they want to be able to translate directly to their business and vice versa for that matter. So you're seeing more and more of that. And the common denominator for that is the stability that IndyCar has today compared to what it had last year, year before, year before. And that might be in common then with what happened in the CART Series, until it got sideways with the splintering of open wheel racing. That stability created the momentum that CART had, which created the depth that CART had. And we have the same thing unfolding in front of us today.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break. Welcome back to this week's edition of Pit Pass Indy. And now here's the rest of my interview with Chip Ganassi racing managing director Mike Hull, on Pit Pass Indy.

Speaking of momentum, what can IndyCar do to cultivate and continue that momentum in 2023?

Mike Hull:

That's a good question, Bruce. First of all, the easy answer is to say just keep doing things the same way. But when you do things the same way, you're removed, and it's not going to work. I think IndyCar needs to work hard as they have been doing to find better people to work for them, find more depth in their organization, forecast for the race teams, how to make the Series better. I think they're working, probably now as I understand it, hopefully on a new television contract that'll involve network racing. I think that needs to continue. I think taking a page out of some of the other sports organizations. Forget about motor racing, just sports organizations, creating vitality with communication with the generation that's coming along, is going to be critical for their growth, and that needs to happen.

Bruce Martin:

They announced earlier on December 8th that they're going to have a reality show, 100 Days to Indy. That's going to be on the CW network, which is an over the air network. It's the fifth network on TV, and it's going to pretty much follow IndyCar through the spring, leading up and culminating with the Indy 500. That may not be necessarily the Drive to Survive show that a lot of people were looking at, but it is a Drive to Survive-like show that focuses on the Indy 500, which as we all know is the centerpiece of the Series. So what are your thoughts on that?

Mike Hull:

I think my thoughts are pretty simple, really. Enhancement. Enhancement of the brand is what all of us should support. Because it's been proven that Drive to Survive or other programs like it have worked in the past doesn't necessarily mean that that's what we should do going forward. But I think we should tear the book out of that page and understand that that's the direction we should be going. We need to get a public perception in front of more eyes. And if Mark Miles and the group at IndyCar Racing have managed to be able to do that for us, and it appears that they're working very hard to do it, let's get after it.

Bruce Martin:

Well, the other thing about that particular docu-series is it's not going to be an IMS production. It's going to be produced by Vice, which is a well-regarded production company, well-regarded media company, and also it'll be on primetime network TV. The CW is a network in most major markets in the United States. So in a lot of ways that was probably one that a lot of people say they didn't see coming.

Mike Hull:

Well, I don't know if I saw it coming or not coming. But here's how I look at things just generally. It's in front of us. It's here. And let's support it. Let's create brand awareness.

Bruce Martin:

Another thing that was announced earlier, the first week of December or the second week of December, is the fact the 2.4 liter engine will be paused. It'll be a 2.2 liter engine with the hybrid assist component in 2024. A lot of the drivers are disappointed there won't be a 2.5 liter or 2.4 liter engine. What are your thoughts on that?

Mike Hull:

I'm disappointed. I would agree with that. I'm probably in the choir up to a certain point, but I understand the reality of growing the Series. I understand that. I don't know about the definition of the word pause, frankly, but I don't look at it as a pause situation. I look at it as the result of growth. And if you're trying to have stronger teams, better teams, teams that are working hard to find financing to drive them forward, and you can save them. Let's talk about the financial reality of it.

I found it interesting, when I looked through social media night before last, I think it was now, on the calendar with when the announcement was made. I see a lot of negativity there. A lot of negativity. And I'm thinking to myself, are these people really invested in the Series? And that's not a slam on anybody in particular, it's just more a directional point. If you're starting a team or you're trying to grow a team and somebody says to you, we can save you a million dollars in 2023 and that keeps you on the grid for 17 or 18 weekends, what do you think about that? Now the same people are going to say after we race at St. Petersburg, that's one of the best races I've ever seen. Now, did we talk about the 2.2 liter engine or did we talk about the drivers? Did we talk about the arena, that where we are? And that's what racing for me is all about. It's about the drivers, it's about the teams, and the branding and promotional aspect of that.

Naturally, we want to talk about Honda, we want to talk about Chevrolet, we want to talk about Firestone. I truly understand that. But the reality is, is we talk about the motor race, and that's how, for me, racing has been that way since the wheel was invented.

Bruce Martin:

Even though this company isn't involved directly with Chip Ganassi racing, they are involved with one of the big weekends of the year. Hyvee, a company that came in and aggressively marketed and aggressively promoting IndyCar, and they're going to have another huge lineup at Iowa Speedway next July, did an interview on a recent Pit Pass Indy with Randy Edeker. He's even talked about in the future being one of the sponsors of the Indianapolis 500, or getting involved with races at Road America, and things like that. So when you get a company like that, that is a willing and active promoter of the Series, how important is that to IndyCar and to your team?

Mike Hull:

Well, I think to our team, we'd like to be able to find a 12-pack of that on the shelf at Hyvee, frankly. I think it's really, really important that we support them, and in their initiative and their effort. Right now, we have one race where that happens. One race. We should support it. And the promoter's page, the page book out of the promoter at Texas, at St. Petersburg, at mid-Ohio, at Long Beach. They promote their races in the way that they do it. We should support them with the way they want to do it. Because guess what's going to happen on race day? Our race is going to break out. Isn't that why we go? All of us that work inside the fence, inside the corral, we're fans of motor racing. We were lucky enough to climb over that fence. The people that watch us, they're fans of motor racing. And do we critique what the promoter wants to do before and after the checkered flag? No. Do we participate? Sometimes. But we came for the race. So let's just keep promoting IndyCar racing.

Bruce Martin:

And by doing it in creative ways like they're trying to do, involving major entertainment acts surrounding the races in an attempt to bring new fans that may not have been to an IndyCar race before, isn't that how you grow the sport?

Mike Hull:

Well, we talked about that a few minutes ago with Drive to Survive, didn't we? What has that done for the sport of Formula 1 racing? A friend of mine plays on the PGA Tour. And young guy, he's been on the Tour now for five years. He's stayed inside the top 100 Money. He stays on the Tour, he plays well. When Drive to Survive came out, he called on the phone and he said, you cannot believe what's going on on the range. I can't remember where he went to play. He went to an event. He said, I'm on the range on Monday or Tuesday. I'm hitting golf balls, getting ready for the ProAm. And all the guys are talking about are Drive to Survive. These are PGA players, right? They got a life, they have a profession, but they're talking about Drive to Survive. And that to me indicates that we can do a better job as a racing entity by finding new ways to enhance and build our brand. Iowa is one way. But guess what? There are 17 other ways. There are 17 other places. So support it.

Bruce Martin:

And don't you think that now IndyCar is in a great position where they can attract new sponsors? It seems like everybody down the lineup on the starting grid is fully funded.

Mike Hull:

I think fully funded is certainly at the discretion of your CFO.

Bruce Martin:

Well, they have sponsors.

Mike Hull:

Yeah, but look what just happened with us here at Chip Ganassi Racing with American Legion. They found value in what they did with their brand in IndyCar racing. Yes, it was with Chip Ganassi racing, but guess what? It was in IndyCar racing. And they found value to the point where they wanted to increase what they do here. And that's what's happening generally with many of the sponsors that are either here or want to be here. You first have to get in. When you build a brick wall, you start with the bricks at the bottom and you work to the top. You don't start at the top and work your way down. That's called demolition. And we're building here. We're not demolishing. And so we need to support that enhancement.

Bruce Martin:

And our final question here with Chip Ganassi racing managing-

Mike Hull:

Is this our final question, Bruce, at this?

Bruce Martin:

Not really. It'll be the final question 'til the next time we do an interview with you, which may be next week. Obviously, you go in every year with two goals. Win the Indy 500, win the Series Championship. So how do you achieve those goals in 2023?

Mike Hull:

The way you achieve goals in your life, in my life, in anybody else's life, and the way we achieve goals at Chip Ganassi Racing, in our racing life here, is get the most out of today. And define for the people that are working with each other here as they talk to each other, how they just won. They win today. If they win today, they can win tomorrow. If they continue to win as a group, then they can get the most out of it. And I think that's how you achieve a goal of winning the largest and most important race in the world, which is the Indianapolis 500 or the IndyCar Championship. I was at an event the last few days with Marcus Erickson, certainly well away from the racetrack, with a group of people that know very, very little about motor racing. But guess what they did know? They knew that he won the Indianapolis 500. So that's a goal worth achieving and repeating.

Bruce Martin:

Well, it's always an inspirational episode anytime I have Mike Hull on Pit Pass Indy, but congratulations on winning the Indianapolis 500 again in 2022. And good luck in 2023 in both the Indy 500 and another possible NTT IndyCar Series Championship. My call, managing director Chip Ganassi Racing. Thank you for joining us today on Pit Pass Indy.

Mike Hull:

Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce Martin:

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition on Pit Pass Indy. We want thank our guest, Chip Ganassi Racing managing director, Mike Hull, for joining us on today's podcast. Along with loyal listeners like you, our guest helped make Pit Pass Indy your path to Victory Lane for all things IndyCar. For more IndyCar coverage, follow me at Twitter at Bruce Martin. One word, uppercase M, uppercase M, underscore, 500. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcast. A special thanks to our production team. Executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin, and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcast.com. Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.