How to Navigate Vendor Contracts with Attorney Kunbi Odubogun

Leah Longbrake:
Hello, and welcome to Weddings Unveiled, a podcast for your wedding planning process. I'm your host, Leah Longbrake. We know how exciting and stressful planning the big day can be, and we're here to help, providing you with information and advice from industry insiders and those with firsthand experience.

Leah Longbrake:
On today's episode, we have Kunbi Odubogun, attorney and public speaker, who will be breaking down what you need to know about your vendor contracts. Kunbi, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome to Weddings Unveiled.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Thank you so much for having me, Leah. I'm really excited to be here as well.

Leah Longbrake:
Kunbi, tell us a little bit about your background as a lawyer, as an influencer, and what you have going on right now.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Okay, so I'm Kunbi Odubogun. Oh gosh, my background is so extensive. I feel like every time, I think every year we get older, it's just like, "Oh God, it's been so long since I started doing anything." But I'm originally from Nigeria. And I moved here for college a long time ago, in 2003. For college, I found myself in the University of Kansas in Lawrence, Kansas, which I'm just always so excited to say and interject into everything.

Kunbi Odubogun:
I've been here ever since. And it's been one of those things, I've always known I wanted to be a lawyer. So it was one of those long journeys to becoming a lawyer, because I found out when I came to America, that you have to have a first degree first, which was shocking. I guess determination, which is why I'm sure that I really wanted to be a lawyer. I found myself, long story short, in New York. I went to law school in New York, and I have been practicing for 11 years now.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Between wanting to be a lawyer so long, just because I thought the wigs that they wore in Nigeria were really cool. You know those lawyer wigs that they wear in Europe and in Africa? I've just always thought, "Okay, the coolness is so much." But clearly, I've been in America long enough to know that that's not what a lawyer is. It's been a very exciting journey. And so that's how I got here.

Kunbi Odubogun:
In 2012, I found myself immersed in the wedding world, because I started a wedding blog when I was planning my own wedding. It was originally called Aisle Perfect. And so it was something really, honestly, just to keep me busy with all my thoughts. Also, more importantly, it was something to switch up my monotonous legal life that I was living with law.

Kunbi Odubogun:
So I started a wedding blog. It kicked off. Started getting so many readers over the years. And that's how my two worlds connected. All of a sudden, I became a wedding blogger and an attorney. And now I found myself as being an attorney that caters to a good chunk of wedding industry professionals as well.

Leah Longbrake:
And you were just speaking at Catersource in Florida. I know you do a lot with events and wedding planners. It's impressive.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Yes. Oh gosh. July was really an interesting month. Yes. Because like I said, I would say about 30% of my clientele are wedding pros and wedding event industry adjacent people, I find myself always being able to speak to everything that's going on with them, but also to speak as someone in the industry as well. I own a publication, like I said, called Perfete. And so that's actually what I was speaking about at Catersource. But then sometimes I speak about the other side, which is the legal side. So I'm living many lives. Let's go with that.

Leah Longbrake:
Well, let's jump into the legal side. Contracts can be so overwhelming, especially when you're in the middle of planning, and especially in the beginning part of planning. What should couples consider when dealing with contracts from a vendor? Anything that they should do before signing?

Kunbi Odubogun:
First of all, and I know this is going to sound really like, I'm not even trying to be funny, but please read them. Read those contracts. I think we, as a generation, and just in general even, have become these people that just scroll to the bottom and sign. We all know about those terms and conditions. But half of the time, you're like, "Okay, what else are they going to say?" Or just because you've had a great experience with a vendor, and you've kicked it off verbally or whatever, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't read the fine print.

Kunbi Odubogun:
It's always really important to just read the fine print. Read about what it is that you are agreeing to, what it is that the vendor is promising, how much you're going to pay, and things like that. Because people always forget that part, and it's what ends up leading to conflict. Big conflict, expensive conflict in the long run.

Leah Longbrake:
Well, yeah, because in contracts, like you said, in the fine print, there are times where a vendor might say, "We'll provide this, but we're not going to provide that." And then a couple doesn't realize that.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Exactly.

Leah Longbrake:
And it's like, "Oh, I thought you were doing this too." And it's like, "No."

Kunbi Odubogun:
It sounds so simple, but it happens so frequently. I know that, because it always ends up in front of me, or in my email, because there's conflict happening. But I think one thing, especially with something as special as your wedding day, is the whole idea that it's like there's this dream event that's about to happen, so there's a lot of expectations. So much, obviously, because who doesn't want their dream day?

Kunbi Odubogun:
And so you meet someone who does this, and maybe you've seen what they've done for other people, but you shouldn't attach certain expectations to what they're doing for you. And what I mean by this is that, like Leah, you just correctly said. Maybe that person paid extra for a particular service, or something. Do you know what I mean?

Leah Longbrake:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kunbi Odubogun:
You need to make sure that they're offering that same service to you. So this is why it's really good to have a very great and clear scope of work, like a list of the services that they will be providing for you. It can't just be general planning services. What does that mean? What is general planning services? The general planning services, maybe you expect that general planning services includes pickup and drop off, set up in certain ways, or whatever like that. Or in some cases, it could just mean supervision. And you're still expected to provide contract with other people to provide these extra things.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Some other people, I have seen situations where the clients have expected that the service was all-inclusive. Like they were just going to pay this flat amount, and everything will come with it. But that's not how it works. And this is the reason why a contract is important, because then you're not relying on a he-said, she-said situation.

Leah Longbrake:
Yeah. We talk about budgets a lot on the show. And you mentioned how this could be a very expensive conflict or issue, is if you're not reading the fine print, there could be tons of fees and taxes involved that you're not budgeting into your account, and they can hurt you also in the end.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Yes. And that's the reason why, for me typically, the kind of conflicts I see with vendors and clients, it's always that. It's always if you go into the depth of it, or you go into the bottom of it, you see that it's crisscrossed the expectations of what's going to happen. And then the whole thing you always hear with clients, it's like, "Oh, well, they scammed me, because this is not the amount of money that I expected to pay." But this is the reason why you need to be very clear, and make sure.

Kunbi Odubogun:
The contract stage of any relationship is one of the most important stages, even before you start getting into the good stuff, the cute stuff or the execution. A lot of stuff begins and ends with your contract. A lot of conversations begin and end with the contract, in that a judge will see it and be like, "Okay, there's no case here." You might not even get to a judge, because there's no case here.

Kunbi Odubogun:
So this is the reason why you have to spend a little bit more time now. You're spending a lot of money on your big day, so how about you spend that time and maybe even money in making sure that you've reviewed your contract to understand exactly what is promised, and what is going to be given. And you also understand what the steps are in case there is a conflict, or if there's an issue, how you iron things out. These things are so important.

Leah Longbrake:
What's a good, key advice for conflict resolution, if there is an issue??

Kunbi Odubogun:
Well, I'm the kind of person, I'm sure a bunch of lawyers that are not litigators would tell you this, even the litigators as well, those who love to go to court, that the whole idea, and the reason why you get a lawyer in the first place is because you're trying to avoid court. You're trying to avoid a larger conflict. So always making sure that you decide how you would like to handle things from either side. And deciding that, okay, we have the opportunity to talk things out.

Kunbi Odubogun:
If there is something I, as the client, have done, do I have an opportunity to cure that before we get into the whole, "I'm not offering the service anymore," before the conflict escalates? There should always be some kind of deescalation option there, at least from the side of the client anyway.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Maybe, for instance, I missed a payment. Is there a grace period in which the payment needs to be made before the contract is canceled? Is there any kind of notice I have to have, so that I know? I miss payments all the time, because I just completely forget, but it's because I haven't set auto payment, or something. And it's like, "Oh God, I was supposed to pay this today."

Kunbi Odubogun:
So is there something where I have an option, or the opportunity to cure that before it becomes a bigger issue? Or if I'm not happy with something, is there any way that I can just send an email, and let them know that I'm not happy, so that maybe the service provider has a chance to cure that before it becomes a situation of, "I want my money back"? It's really important to have those in there.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And then obviously also, and this is getting more technical, making sure that your governing law and the jurisdiction is something that you are comfortable with. If there was in fact an issue, do I have the opportunity to sue, or bring it up legally in my own state? Or is this going to be the state and jurisdiction of someone else?

Leah Longbrake:
Oh, that's a great pro tip.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Oh, yes. It's really important. Just make sure you checked what the governing law and jurisdiction is. Make sure you've checked what dispute resolution options are there. Some people will have arbitration as the option, because that's faster. And that doesn't require as much legwork, especially for any of the parties.

Kunbi Odubogun:
But some people might not prefer that. Maybe arbitration is limiting for you, and you wanted the opportunity to be able to go into small claims court, or something. Check what that language is, and make sure you understand how that benefits or disadvantages you in any way.

Leah Longbrake:
Especially if you're doing a destination wedding.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Exactly. That's exactly. And if you're doing a destination wedding, and destination can mean locally or internationally, or if you're dealing with a vendor that's out of state, just make sure that you are clear as to how that resolution will happen, and what your processes and protections are.

Leah Longbrake:
Should both partners sign all the contracts, or does it not really matter?

Kunbi Odubogun:
It matters. I mean, it matters, especially for the service provider it definitely matters, because you want to make sure that both parties are just as liable, if anything happens. But you should understand, if you are individually entering that agreement, then you are individually responsible for the consequences of that agreement. So I think that's the beginning and end of that. If you go into it individually, know that you are responsible individually.

Leah Longbrake:
COVID obviously changed how things are affected with couples and companies, with having to cancel or move wedding dates. And other things, like acts of God, military deployment, et cetera, can happen. So what are some things that couples should consider when it comes to these serious situations?

Kunbi Odubogun:
We don't want to talk about stuff happening. We never want to talk about the bad stuff happening, which is a disadvantage and it's a very risky move to make. Because the truth is, life happens. And the whole idea is that we're hoping it doesn't, but in the event that it does, there's something documented as to how to proceed, right?

Leah Longbrake:
Yes.

Kunbi Odubogun:
COVID was a real humbler of persons, for lack of a better phrase. It really humbled not just couples, but service professionals as well. And the reason being is that the unexpected really can happen. And even the so-called impossible can. So for couples that are going into these agreements, I know that a lot of them, you will even find it now, I'm sure you've seen it, Leah, as well, is that they're more hesitant now. Or if they're not hesitant, at least more cautious in looking and making sure that, okay, so what is this scenario? What happens here?

Kunbi Odubogun:
And so with COVID, or like you said, military deployment, or any kind of unexpected here, there are clauses that you need to make sure that you are very hypersensitive to, and make sure you understand how it works for or against you. And remember that these are conversations that you can have with service providers, in terms of negotiating what works best for both parties.

Kunbi Odubogun:
For instance, once COVID happened last year, the big belle of the ball, as I love to call it, was the force majeure clause, because that's a clause that talks about interrupting forces and unexpected happenings, like major unexpected happenings that impact the contract. And what the force majeure does is it excuses both parties, or the impacted party more than anybody else, from performance at that exact moment, because something crazy has happened, or something shocking and unexpected or unanticipated has happened.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And usually, depending on the jurisdiction, they will want you to be specific in your force majeure clause about including language like pandemic, like infestations, or more importantly, beyond even that, what you do is add acts of God. Most importantly, government lockdowns, because government interruptions are something. Military deployments, things that take the capacity out of your hands, because something's happened that's interrupted your performance.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And so putting those things and making sure they're clear. If you are in the army, if you're in the military in any form, you want to make sure that deployment language is in there, because then it's personal to you, and it's including things that could happen like that. And so making sure that that force majeure clause is clear, not only about what a force majeure is, but what happens in the event of a force majeure.

Kunbi Odubogun:
I think that's a part that a lot of people move on from. Because then yes, you've described what an interrupting event is, but okay, what the heck happens if that happens? Is there an interruption? Do you automatically get a reprieve of some sort, or can you reschedule without an additional fee, for instance? And let them know when the rescheduling is. And in the event that you do cancel, do you get everything but your retainer back, or do you get everything back?

Kunbi Odubogun:
These are the things that you want to make sure are clear. At least, okay, so if I do get deployed, how soon do I have to notify the service provider, so that I can preserve my contract? When do I have to provide a rescheduling date to let them know that I'll still be moving forward? Things like that, there should be steps, so that that is clear and there's no confusion as to what happens next.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And with that, also go back into the rescheduling and the date change. The date change and constellation language shouldn't confuse you. It shouldn't have to be something that needs to be explained to you. If it is, then it's not clear enough for you. And it shouldn't be something that you're now only looking at, after the fact. Think about it and look at it immediately. As in, "Okay, so if I have to postpone, what do I do?" If the wedding gets canceled, what do we do? What do I have to do in terms of, if for instance, there is a government mandate that shrinks my guest size by 80%, is there a step in place in there? Or does that change the terms of my agreement? Does that change my responsibilities in the contract, or is it the same?

Kunbi Odubogun:
Look at anything that affects the day of the event. So rescheduling, cancellation. Is there any special things that you have to do? Are they expecting you to do anything special, in terms of COVID precautions, or anything like that? What happens if something happens that we can't continue with this agreement? Do I get the retainer back under any circumstance, or is that money gone? This is conversation that needs to start happening, because this is like any other business dealing. An event is a business dealing, because money is changing hands with the idea that there's an expectation of something happening.

Leah Longbrake:
No, that is all such important advice. I hope everyone's just soaking and drinking in, because I heard, for the most part, that vendors were really cool and really great with couples when it came to having to postpone or cancel. But I do know of one situation of a friend who moved her wedding date to this year, a year later. And the one vendor was like, "Okay, that's great. It's going to be almost exactly a year to the date," but tacked on an extra $3,000 for moving it. It was a big argument, obviously.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And was that in the contract?

Leah Longbrake:
I don't think that the three grand was in the contract, I think it was an extra fee. This is where language definitely would be important. So what's the expectation? But an extra three grand for moving it, they weren't getting rid of them. They were just forced to have to move it, because of this silly pandemic. That's why I just hope everyone's taking your advice to heart, because you don't want to deal with that kind of hassle, and lose out that kind of money.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Exactly. I think that's the thing. And these money conversations always get awkward. And I can imagine that that's shocking for anybody, when you start getting these fee tax. Even though it's nowhere discussed in the contract, and then you start worrying and wondering if it's a penalty, like, "Did I do something wrong? Why am I being punished for the pandemic?"

Kunbi Odubogun:
But then once you understand these things, or once they're clear in the contract from the beginning, then it's always a crisscross of expectations, in my opinion, especially when these conflicts happen. Because if this was clear from the beginning, there wouldn't be this conversation.

Leah Longbrake:
Absolutely. Yeah, we shouldn't be afraid about talking about money. I don't know why money talk is so awkward, but it is.

Kunbi Odubogun:
It is, and I don't want to make it a gender thing, but especially for women. It's bad in general, but I feel like women even more, are always like, "Oh, it's so gross," or you don't want to have that conversation. I found, especially I'm speaking even from my experience, sometimes I find myself very intimidated by having the conversation, or not wanting to have to... I don't want the person to think that I'm either broke, or taking advantage, one or the other. It always falls somewhere in between. Either I'm broke or just a money grabber.

Kunbi Odubogun:
So either way, I think it's a conversation that needs to be had. When you're signing a contract, money's on the line. And in some cases, freedom could be on the line as well. So it's really important that you make sure you're very comfortable, and there are no surprises.

Leah Longbrake:
Kunbi, you mentioned obviously force majeure being a clause. What are other clauses that we should really be paying attention to?

Kunbi Odubogun:
I think as a couple, the scope of work of what the service provider is performing is really important. It's so, so important that you are both clear. You're both on the same page as to what you're expecting, the deliverables. And also, even asking them what it doesn't come with. Don't hesitate to ask, "So what do you not provide?" So that we're clear as to what the expectations are.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Making sure that it's clear how much it's going to cost you, how much it's going to cost you. When? What is the frequency of your payment schedule? Can I pay in X amount? How can I pay? And how much is non-refundable under any circumstance? Is it a deposit? Is it money that I get back? Or is it a retainer? That language could different in different states, for sure. But making sure that it's clear as to how much is coming back.

Kunbi Odubogun:
If anything happens, what am I on the hook for? When can I cancel? That question is so important. When can I cancel? When can I notify of a change? When is it too late to cancel and get my money back? Is it okay to reschedule? Is rescheduling even an option? Who will be providing the service, or is it the team that is providing it? So there's no one particular person that I have to chase down, or anything like that.

Kunbi Odubogun:
What are office hours? This is even from the service provider's side, it's always a great idea to provide your office hours. So it's clear what your boundaries are legally as well, as well as personally. What am I responsible for? What is it that you expect from me, as the couple? You will find that there are indemnification clauses in contracts as well, which is one of the standard clauses in the contract, as to liability. What am I holding myself harmless from? If a guest does something, am I responsible?

Kunbi Odubogun:
I always say that every clause in the contract is responsible, but the clauses that affect your responsibility are very, very important. The responsibility of you, and also the responsibility of the other party. So your rescheduling clause, your cancellation clause, because these are your responsibilities here. What does the client default look like? What does it look like if I screw up, and then you have to come for me, or something or the other, or this causes a breach of contract?

Kunbi Odubogun:
Making sure that those are clear for you are just so important. Even the clauses that you don't think are as serious, because there's always a section where it's miscellaneous stuff. But really why it's miscellaneous, because you find them in every contract, and that's why it's really important. So making sure that you read it from head to toe is so important.

Leah Longbrake:
And probably a contingency plan as well, right?

Kunbi Odubogun:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Leah Longbrake:
In case of a substitute, or in place of something happening?

Kunbi Odubogun:
That's exactly. That's what I was getting at with the who's responsible for what. Because as a service provider as well, which obviously I can speak on, it's really important that it's clear as to what happens if you, as a service provider, aren't able to perform. Because the couple wants to see that as well. What is the contingency plan, if something happens? Would there be a suitable replacement that's there? Would there be a substitute? This is important, because then you understand what's going on.

Leah Longbrake:
Kunbi, what's your advice for couples that are overwhelmed by contracts and the legal jargon that's all involved?

Kunbi Odubogun:
I think first of all, it's overwhelming, because it's a very important day. It's overwhelming, because there are very important expectations there. Obviously, I'm a lawyer, so it's easier for me to say that they're a necessity. And so you have to take it on as a business, as part of the process of planning a wedding.

Kunbi Odubogun:
But more importantly, I think if you're overwhelmed, please do not hesitate to ask a question, whether it's through your own legal representation, or asking the person that's sending you the contract to explain what the clauses are. Ask questions. Everybody wants to sign. Everybody wants to move forward as they are planning. So I feel like it's never a bother. It shouldn't ever be a bother for you to ask and just be like, okay, read through it. Take that part in, because it's really important. But then ask them to explain what each clause is. So that anything that you are not clear about, you want to understand, because you don't want a situation where you've signed something and you had no idea about it.

Leah Longbrake:
Any last piece of advice for couples that are planning their wedding?

Kunbi Odubogun:
It's going to be really rude now, for me to say enjoy the process, when I've spoken about contracts up and down. It's such an aggressive part of the process. I think my advice for anybody that's planning a wedding is just to get comfortable with knowing what each part is. And it can get really complex, where it's just a couple of hours, or it's just even an hour of your time to get comfortable with knowing what you're getting into, where your money is going, so that you can have much more of a comfortable experience with planning the wedding. Because things will get overwhelming. That's a part of the process, because it's such a special and important day. And there's a lot of things in there.

Kunbi Odubogun:
I remember how I felt six months into planning my wedding. I was like, "Okay, wow. This thing really just changed it into something else." After a while, you just get tired. But I think one of the key parts of enjoying your wedding is getting all that ugly stuff out in the beginning, so that you can just have this really memorable experience.

Kunbi Odubogun:
And just remember that what matters the most is how you feel, and how everything feels on that day, because that's what you always go back and look at is exactly how you felt on that day. Yes, you will see the pictures, but it's just like, "Oh, how did I feel? How did my guests feel? And how was this experience for me?" Just making sure that you also just take in that experience, and allow yourself taking that experience by getting the ugly stuff out in the beginning.

Leah Longbrake:
I love that. Last question for you. What is your all-time favorite celebrity or real wedding?

Kunbi Odubogun:
Oh God. All time favorite Royal wedding, I will say is I go back to the Grace Kelly one. And I didn't watch it when I was there. It's just because I was really obsessed with her dress, and I go back and I just remember how exciting it was.

Kunbi Odubogun:
But in terms of more recent, I really loved Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's wedding. I did, because I am a black woman and I was just really excited to see a mixed race, black bride walk down the aisle. And I will never, ever, ever, ever forget that choir at the church. I go back to it sometimes and I cry, because that part was just so beautiful. Granted, we treat her like crap now, but that's not the point. It was a great wedding. It was just beautiful. It was very emotional. So I really enjoyed that. If it was Royal wedding, that was that.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Celebrity wedding. I don't know. Oh God. Beyonce is my favorite celebrity, so I wish I could just peek into her wedding, but I couldn't. But I think celebrity wedding was probably Gwen Stefani's first wedding, because I really loved the pink. I'm obsessed with bridal fashion. So those are my two. Bridal fashion will always get me. Didn't love Meghan Markle's dress, if I can say that. But I really loved Gwen Stefani's, and so those are my two.

Leah Longbrake:
Well, both have really changed the game, as far as like when Gwen's came out, it was so, so different. This Galliano gown, and no one saw the pink. And now it's kind of common. But even then, it took 10 years after her wedding to become more of a thing.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Exactly.

Leah Longbrake:
She was way ahead of it.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Because we looked at it as so out there. Exactly. It just really rocked my world. I was like, "Gosh, somebody can actually dare to wear pink." And it was so her. It was perfect, so that one's always in my head.

Leah Longbrake:
And then you always have the Royal effect, so like when Kate Middleton's wedding happened, everyone started to want lace sleeves. And then with Meghan, everyone started wanting clean cuts, slightly off-shoulder or boat neck, classic lines. They really know how to set the trends.

Kunbi Odubogun:
They do.

Leah Longbrake:
With Meghan's, I always preferred her second dress, the halter from Stella McCartney, when she exited out and they were looking like they came from a Bond film.

Kunbi Odubogun:
It was perfect. Yeah.

Leah Longbrake:
Right. But with her wedding dress, I loved her veil.

Kunbi Odubogun:
I loved her veil.

Leah Longbrake:
And I loved that they had the different country flowers around it.

Kunbi Odubogun:
That was important, yeah.

Leah Longbrake:
Beautiful.

Kunbi Odubogun:
The countries from the Commonwealth. That was perfect. The veil was so special. Don't know why the cut of the dress was just something didn't sit with me. But then like you said, it still was a trendsetter, and we saw the change after that.

Leah Longbrake:
For sure. Well, Kunbi, I'm so happy to have you on the show today. How can we get more information on you and your company?

Kunbi Odubogun:
Thank you so much for having me. This was so nice and sweet throughout. I get really excited about talking law, so this is always my excitement level. But you can find me, I actually own a contract template shop that sells ready-made legal contracts for the event pros and creatives alike. So you can always find me at legallyset.com or @legallyset, especially if you're looking for tips on how to protect yourself. And also for instance, what we talked about today, what to look for when you're reading a contract. If you're looking for wedding inspiration of any kind, you can find me at Perfete, P-E-R-F-E-T-E, and that is the name across all social media as well.

Leah Longbrake:
Wonderful. And I look forward to talking to you again soon.

Kunbi Odubogun:
Thank you so much, Leah. Thanks for having me.

Leah Longbrake:
Thanks for listening to Weddings Unveiled. Make sure you follow the show on your favorite podcast app, so you never miss an episode. And follow Weddings Unveiled on social media. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thank you to executive producers, David Moss and Gerardo Orlando, production director, Brigid Coyne, and audio engineer, Eric Koltnow. Don't forget to enjoy the journey.