The Inner Lives of Teens, Unfiltered

Steph: Today’s episode is sponsored by Talkspace. With Talkspace online therapy anyone can get therapy without traveling to an office. Be sure to use the code “YOURTEEN,” one word all caps, to get sixty five dollars off your first month of counseling.

Sue: This episode of Your Teen contains conversations surrounding issues of mental health, depression, and suicide. We are not mental health professionals. So if you or someone you love is struggling with suicidal thoughts or depression, please seek professional help. Welcome to Your Teen with Sue and Steph. I’m Sue Borison.

Steph: I’m Stephanie Silverman.

Sue: And today we’re talking about the things we wish we knew before our kids turned into teenagers. But before we get to that, there’s always the other. I think we’re going to talk a little bit about whether we’re good at transitions or not we’re not.

Steph: We’re not. Neither one of us.

Sue: So I was with a group of people and I said, because my son was leaving for college soon, and so I was having a struggle and I just realized like it’s really just about transitions for me. I’ve never done well with them. I’m the parent who cried when kindergarten was over because we moved into elementary school and I was sad to say goodbye to those teachers and that safe space. The path was set then already that I was not a good transitioning parent. I asked a group of people, “Does anybody like transitions?” Because Stephanie I don’t like transitions and I don’t think my kids do so great with it and are there people? And one guy said I love new things. I just love it it’s so much promise and something new. I thought, “Lucky him.”

Steph: Oh my God. It’s funny you and I both are… We like challenges, we do like new projects. So why is it like it’s funny. I feel like they almost skate up next to each other but for both of us that transition and not like any your day every day is so completely different from the day before and same with mine. You know work and personal lives. So why does it make us so squirmy? It’s funny you just said about moving to a new building and feeling like oh you know saying goodbye. I don’t think that’s what mine is. I think mine is or maybe I just can’t articulate it. I literally just walk around with a stomachache. If I’m going on vacation my stomach hurts. If I’m going home from vacation my stomach hurts. It’s like it doesn’t matter it’s like whatever I get used to then going back to whatever it was, I have this weird anxiety. What is that?

Sue: I don’t know. You know what? When we can figure this out we’re going to make so much money because I really think that this is more common than the guy who said “I love transitions because it’s so much opportunity.” There’s this unknown there’s the status quo that’s feels so safe. And even though airplanes might be much safer than driving my car I’ve driven my car over and over and over again and I’ve had the good fortune of not really having any terrible accidents which I shouldn’t say that, knock on wood. It’s like just leaving this safety net that I have here this feeling of knowing what the day is going to look like and I don’t— Well we’ve talked about this a lot because I’m so nutty about it.

Steph: I know. We’re going to spare you listeners from all of the crazy in our list of things we do as we are dealing with our anxieties. I think we’ve shared that before maybe not on a podcast, I’ve definitely shared it in an article but all of the crazy too.

Sue: Yes so once we get help we’re going to talk about this and let you know all the things we’re doing to reduce that transition anxiety for us.

Steph: Okay. Speaking of. So as we lead into this podcast all the things we wish we had known before we had teens. I have several. I think my biggest one is I wish someone would have told me how different each day was going to be and not to think each moment… Not to think that like a day was either going to replicate itself or that something that happened in that day… How do I articulate this?

Sue: Like it was a predictor of their whole life.

Steph: Exactly. Exactly. Because right, my husband says like my head gets on a train. Like one mishap and I’ve got them you know they’re incarcerated for the rest of their lives.

Sue: That’s a big one.

Steph: Isn’t it?

Sue: That’s a big leap. I know your kids. I would never go there. So I also understand what you’re saying however. And mostly I feel that way when there’s habits that I’ve seen all along and they’ve dissipated but then for whatever reason something appears and it’s like there they go again.

Steph: Yeah.

Sue: I have it in my marriage also by the way.

Steph: Because we’re people.

Sue: Yeah.

Steph: And we have traits that make us who we are.

Sue: Yeah. And even when you work on something retreating, when you’re stressed and when your defense mechanisms are down they creep out again.

Steph: Yeah I have another one I was thinking about. So I was just telling someone the other day that, I have to think what was happening, we were on vacation I was talking to a friend of mine and I said, “I call that when this occurs hashtag never happy.” So if you’ve got a kid who always wants to be out you’re like, “Oh can’t they be in?” and if you have a kid who’s always in you’re like “Why don’t they go out at all?” And I always talk about like taking these pieces of each one and putting it into the other. I wish I could just be. Like whatever it was at a particular time where I could just look at it for what it was that day. I guess it goes right back to what we were saying before right? Like not writing the story and not saying like oh because it looks like this now on whatever today is October 1st because it looks like this on October 1st that it looks like this October 1st a year from now.

Sue: So my story that I wish, of course I have also have a million things that I would redo if I knew something differently, but I have two big ones in my life. One of them is if I understood that sixth grade for girls was going to be turmoil in terms of their friendships I would have done it differently. And I was able to because I have three girls. And so the first one was really hard the second I was a little easier and the third one was much easier because of knowing and I remember asking one of their teachers, “Do you know what’s going to happen this year? And the teacher said, ”Yeah it’s the same every year.“ And she launched into the experience I had had with my oldest daughter and I thought, ”Well why does nobody tell us that?" Like why couldn’t I go into this year knowing that old friendships were going to turn upside down and maybe come back or maybe disappear completely. But that part of growing up was going through those experiences. That it was actually healthy for them to go through those experiences and that allows me to shift my lens and rather than be woeful and cling to these old friendships that I wanted my kids to keep be able to let them go when my kids needed to let them go or be able to give solace to my kid when someone else was letting go of them. So I think there are those moments where knowledge of what’s about to come can change how you interact with it entirely.

Steph: Well and I was thinking as you were talking was it’s definitely the story we tell of how your teen was born. And I think you and I both do this as we both have, and I’ve shared this with other friends, is it’s the mental checklist in your head. You know getting left out of the lunch table, the friendships turning upside down, and you know when you think that that is a road to them being independent and building those muscles and launching them right. And if you can look at it as a okay we check that box, it is definitely better parenting headspace than a, “Oh my God what’s wrong with them? Oh my God what’s wrong with me?” Right? So at least for me, I can get my head around that because it feels like we’re making progress even though it may not look like that but I know there’s a checklist there.

Sue: Well what it does for me is it lets me see that going through stages in life are important to developmental growth.

Steph: Yeah.

Sue: And if I tried to jump in and save them they miss out on that opportunity to build those muscles which are important. When you learn how to recover from friendship rejection you have that because that’s going to happen in your life, it happens to all of us. Relationships ebb and flow and if sixth grade is the start of it because we’ve moved out of planning their social life and they’re navigating it on their own, maybe a little earlier than that but around then, they’re learning. They’re learning how to become full beings who know that relationships don’t always play out the way they want them to play out. So that checklist lets us see that it’s important for their development.

Steph: I do have one more thing I was thinking about. I was thinking, and maybe you just see it as they go through it maybe I’m a little sappy on this one, but we hear so much about how the teen years, “Oh my God they’re so awful and they’re so this and…” And they are, it’s so up and down but to watch them emerge as who they are and who they’re going to be, there’s also something just really really cool about that.

Sue: So I would jump on that because I had one more thing I was going to say also which is enjoying them for who they are.

Steph: Yeah.

Sue: So you know you envisioned something for your child when they were younger, even based on who they were at that time you see something that they’re going to turn into when they get older and it doesn’t always play out that way. And we do talk about this all the time at Your Teen, loving the kid you got and not the one you wished you had. And so I think that is something that I wish that I had had some of the articles we’ve put out there. When my older kids were going through it for the first time. So today we’re going to be talking with influencer and podcaster Alexa Curtis. She’s the CEO of Life Unfiltered, a lifestyle site for parents of teens. And she’s going to be talking to us about helping our kids navigate the world today.

Steph: Transitions aren’t easy. For students heading back to school comes hand-in-hand with a lot of tough emotions. New people, new responsibilities, even new places. And as a mom watching your kids deal with the anxiety of change can be so hard to watch.

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Steph: The Talkspace student plan pairs students with licensed therapists who are experienced in addressing the challenges they face. To help your child get started for a fraction of the price of traditional therap, go to talkspace.com/student to learn more. Make sure to use the code “YOURTEEN,” all caps, to get sixty five dollars off your first month using Talkspace.

Sue: Our guest today is Alexa Curtis. She’s a young adult influencer and CEO of Life Unfiltered with Alexa, the lifestyle site for teens and parents. She runs Fearless Every Day on Radio Disney and her podcast, This is Life Unfiltered. Curtis also founded the nonprofit Media Impact and Navigation for Teens as seen on Forbes, Galore 17, CNN, NBC Nightly News, and more. Thanks so much for joining us Alexa.

Alexa Curtis: Thank you so much for having me.

Sue: You have a particular position in our world which is you get a glimpse into a lot of teenagers and what they’re worried about and what they’re thinking about. So we’re really excited to kind of get the information we wish our kids would give us that you know. So thank you and we’re gonna start with some of your life story. You speak about how you were bullied in high school or middle school I’m sorry. Can you tell us a little bit about what that was like for you?

Alexa Curtis: Yes of course. So I started getting bullied probably around the 7th grade and obviously that age time for any young person between 7th to 10th grade is such a crucial time in the development of a young person because we really haven’t found ourselves and we’re just struggling with so many different insecurities and kind of finding ourselves. So I grew up in a very small town and just always was quite different. I really never fit into the traditional mold. I wasn’t super smart but I always really liked clothing so I always just wore really kind of different and unique clothing that I would find at thrift stores and people would give me to school. And once I started my blog which I started when I was 12 and then went into middle school and high school the bullying really got increasingly worse. And even now I’ve been out of school for a decent amount of time and I still struggle with bullying online. Social media has progressed. Bullying does not disappear but I definitely feel like having gone through these experiences when I was in public school really shaped me to be who I am now and really helps me know what young people are dealing with.

Sue: Could you give us an example of what that bullying looked like?

Alexa Curtis: Yes. So there was many different things that happened but I definitely remember one time there was this birthday poster that somebody put up on her locker and it kind of just got defaced. Like I remember I was called into the principal’s office and a bunch of girls had written, I was usually targeted by girls as this often happens in high school, like girls against girls and really young men against young men, and they had just defaced this poster with just a terribly awful words about me. And it was awful because I never even talked to any of the girls like I really didn’t have any friends. I didn’t fit into that group. You know the popular kids quote unquote. And so there’s a whole thing and I would be called to the principal’s office on this one occasion. And my mom was called in. And remember the principal just said one thing like there’s nothing I can tell you to stop this besides just the fact that these girls are for some reason really jealous of you. And I remember being like that makes no sense. Like I’m jealous of them why would they be jealous of me and now looking back it makes sense. But yeah there was that and there was many things obviously when I started my blog that was just kind of quite terrible and just like mean words and stuff that were cited but it definitely was not the easiest. Well I definitely will say that I found that the school was not helpful in any way. My particular school was not helpful. And I don’t really have like any family so it’s really just my parents and parents aren’t obviously the best sometimes at dealing with something like bullying. So I didn’t really have any one I felt very alone and I didn’t really have any friends but I eventually went into therapy after therapy kind of felt like I was able to overcome it. But initially I really didn’t have anyone.

Sue: So that takes us into a hard conversation, not that bullying isn’t, but you talk about how you had suicidal ideations when you were a teenager. And so do you think they were connected with the bullying or something else?

Alexa Curtis: I think it’s both. I had a pretty traumatic childhood with how I grew up. So I think there’s multiple different things. But I will definitely say that bullying is an incredibly strong reason young people including myself think about committing suicide and especially at that time period and even if the bullying ends you do have a lot of trauma from that. So I would say it was probably 50/50.

Sue: Now for parents that’s our worst nightmare. And I’m sure for you as a kid it had its own set of horrifying experiences. But we’re talking to parents right now so what we want to kind of flesh out, and maybe you can bring in some information from what you gather from other teenagers, were you sending out signs to anybody? Cries for help to anybody? What did they look like?

Alexa Curtis: That’s a great question. So I really internalized everything I was dealing with. And when you’re in high school or middle school you don’t want… Especially if you’re being bullied, you don’t want other people to see you’re struggling, right? So I didn’t really reach out for help and I probably could’ve more. But I was too anxious and nervous about what the other kids responses would be. But I think that there are many signs including focusing too heavily on social media could mean that you’re being bullied in school and social media is your outlet. I think that had I been posting on my blog. Negative content which I never did I always just turned to the blog to really help me get through these times. But had I been posting stuff that had suggested that online like I’m really depressed today or really anxious I think that the huge warning sign and parents don’t focus enough on the social media aspect. I also just think really separating myself, which I did do when I was younger, from society. Like I would just focus only on my blog which is not a negative thing. But I was too scared a lot of times to meet other young people or like be around other kids for that fear of being bullied. And I think that those are three huge signs that can go across the board for any young person.

Sue: Can you recall the thought of suicide and then how you moved over that hump to not take action?

Alexa Curtis: Yes. So I actually remember when I had that first initial thought and it was I had been pursuing a lot of different TV segments and there was something that had happened and I was still in school at the time. And for me depression really is what leads to those thoughts. So I’ve always struggled with depression and stop period of time for me was so difficult because I ended up getting really depressed and that’s when I ended up studying me wanting to commit suicide. Honestly I don’t specifically recall what I necessarily did, because it was multiple years ago, to get over it. But I do remember that my parents actually intervened a little bit and made me go and sit down with somebody at a hospital because I remember there was like multiple days where I just was not getting out of bed and then I had voiced my mom that I was thinking about committing suicide and then they definitely really stepped in there. But that was a very extreme circumstance that I’m really glad that they did step in for that but that’s what I do remember.

Sue: So that was a significant turning point for you?

Alexa Curtis: Yes and it was and it made me feel a little less alone and like I could be a little bit more vocal with my parents especially.

Sue: Well we’re all happy that you hit that point and that you got what you needed. Now if we could talk a little bit about how that looks for the kids you’re hearing from, are you hearing from them through your non-profit Media Impact and Navigation for Teens? Is that your direct contact with teenagers?

Alexa Curtis: Yes so I have multiple different ways that I am connecting with those teens. It’s through that, it’s through my podcasts, through my show on Radio Disney that I had over the past year and as well as my Instagram. I’m hearing from mass amounts of young people through platforms like Twitter and Instagram and then on my email. But I mean I’m interacting with these kids constantly so I’ve tried to create a space where the people who follow me feel like they can reach out to me in times of need.

Steph: What’s the most common thing you hear from today’s teens? Thematically, what are you hearing from them?

Alexa Curtis: I love that question. I would say it ranges because of ages but I would certainly say when it comes to young people going into college they’re dealing with a ton of anxiety, depression surrounding around whether or not you’re going to get into their college and that’s leading them to deal with things like cutting or feeling the need to sext. From the younger group of kids I’ve gotten a ton of emails from kids who just feel incredibly alone and confused of what they want to do when they’re older. And in my opinion social media has done so much good for this world. But I also think social media has created a place, an environment where young people go online and now feel like if they are not influencing or creating content or these things, what are they going to do for a career? We’ve gotten to a point where now people are not admiring doctors and nurses they want to be influencers and YouTubers is which is 1 percent of the world, not even that. And so that’s stemming a lot of anxiety and depression for these younger people.

Sue: Are you seeing kids who look like you when you were in middle school? Are you seeing kids who are dealing with the depression and the bullying and the suicidal ideations in middle school kids?

Alexa Curtis: Yes I would say most of the kids that I’ve gotten to reach out to, well it starts around I would say like 14 to 16 is the bulk of the e-mails that I’m getting.

Sue: So are you able to tell them your story and somehow influence their future because you can really identify with them?

Alexa Curtis: 100 percent. I think that’s what’s really making a brand for the past years is the fact that I have been so vocal about these struggles that I’ve had and I’m able to kind of prove and go into detail about the bullying or about suicide and stuff, whereas you know other people might just say oh I was bullied and they’re not willing to explain it and I feel like that’s why people reach out to me especially young people for help us because they truly know that I went through it and I got through it. I really really really encourage them to find a safe space where they can talk because as great as emailing me and helping you is I can’t be there at 1 o’clock in the morning if you’re going to email me, obviously. And if you’re struggling with something that’s not easy for me to deal with. That’s a huge responsibility. So I really encourage them to find some somebody or some place where they can actually get help. And then I really usually send like links to podcast episodes that I filmed or past examples of things that I’ve talked about for them to read whenever they have moments of doubt or anxiety or depression so that they know that there is somebody out there who got through all these things and was able to make it into something positive.

Steph: You made a comment earlier about feeling like your parents didn’t know how to respond. They certainly came in at a very critical time. I can’t remember exactly how you said it but something that they didn’t want to deal with it. What are these kids telling you about their parents action or inaction? What they’re doing right what they’re doing wrong. Do they share that with you?

Alexa Curtis: Yeah I actually remember one specific girl had reached out and said that her mom was being really really really tough on her on the topic of college and getting good grades in high school and that was stemming so much anxiety and depression from her and she really just was like suicidal because she couldn’t deal with the pressure. Most kids don’t usually, when they reach out, tell me the parental side of things. But I do specifically remember her saying that that was too difficult for her, the pressure that her mom specifically was putting on her. And then there are some cases where I’ll talk to kids in person and they say either their family is too distant and doesn’t care enough and they feel lost or the family’s too over involved. So quite often I don’t meet too many young people who say their parent is right in the middle of not helicopter parenting but still being equally involved.

Sue: So give us a little hope and tell us what they’re saying we’re doing right.

Alexa Curtis: Yeah. And this is just from the kids that specifically reached out to me that I can remember. I know so many, just on a personal level, parents who are doing incredible things. I mean the original guy who I started my nonprofit with. He is a really great single father and he is so involved in his kids and and from what I’ve noticed and especially being around them is it’s just communication, right? Like if your child goes to you like I did to my mom and says, like even my sister said look I have an issue with eating, the worst thing to do is be like, “You’ll get over it.” The best thing to do is sit down with this person and take time, even if it’s somebody that just approached you that needs help. It doesn’t have to be a family member. And try and find some type of resolution for how they’re going to get through this, whether that’s therapy, whether they need to go into treatment. I think the worst thing is just ignoring it or judging your child which is quite often done and the parents need to realize judging your child for any type of weight gain or depression they may be having because it’s really not their fault.

Sue: I guess my question was a little bit loaded because kids don’t probably engage in conversation about, “Yay my mom totally got this right.” But in between the lines can you read anything that says, you can see that some of these kids are reaching out because they just they just want another place to talk it’s not that their parents aren’t doing what they need it’s that this is an anonymous place, you’re closer to their age than their parents.

Alexa Curtis: Oh yeah for sure for sure. And when I said those few people that I remember that was just like you know two people who have reached out to me compared to the thousands and both that there are. So 100 percent I think that parents do not relate to kids because they’re not the same age. So there’s many times especially on the topic of like drugs or sexuality that kids would come to someone like me or somebody that they follow online more because they feel like they can relate to these people versus there’s many topics that young people are willing to expose online that they’re not necessarily ready to tell their parents. So a thousand percent. I think that most parents are involved and do the best that they can to their capability but still young people need friends. They need some safe space where they can say things that maybe they don’t want their parents to hear.

Sue: That’s great. That’s great that you’ve created this for them.

Alexa Curtis: Thank you.

Sue: We’re to get to a little bit lighter now, thank God. And if you could tell us about your interview at Warner Brothers and how that played out and how you dealt with it.

Alexa Curtis: So I started blogging when I was 12 and I’m 21 now. So a few years ago maybe three and a half had pitched this show to a division and now I have this production company and ended up getting invited for a meeting which I thought was gonna be like my career win. And it was just a pretty traumatizing, in that moment, experience for me it was just a larger executive who really just told me like I didn’t have enough Instagram followers, I wasn’t going to be successful I wasn’t… This was never gonna go anywhere, and they were kind of like “Thanks for wasting my time.” When they had actually invited me. I went across the street and I sat on this staircase in Burbank and I was living in Boston at the time and I just cried and I was so upset. I was like, “This is the end.” I remember feeling like, “I can’t deal with the rejection anymore like I just I can’t do it.” And fast forward a year and the exact building across the street from that production company is where I filmed my show for Radio Disney because they said yes. And so that is a really unique story of my career and just goes to show that you really can never give up.

Steph: So tell us about that year in between. What made you keep going forward? What what would you tell young people today? You know from feeling so dejected to a year later.

Alexa Curtis: Oh my gosh you can’t let anyone tell you your worth. Like had I listened to him and given up I would not have done any of the things I’ve done in the past year. And you have to find the courage and confidence within yourself because even when you’re at the top of your field or the top of your college sorority or whatever people are always going to want to bring you down. And if you don’t have the worth in you enough you’re not you’re not going to be successful because you can be impacting one person and feeling happy with yourself if you’re confident with yourself. And that takes a long period of time and so much trial and error. But I think it’s also important to note that you have to give yourself time. Like when you deal with something like rejection you’re not expected to just… Nobody is just like, “Oh this is great on to the next.” Like it took me a solid period of time and eventually I was like, “It’s just not meant to be.” You know? That’s it.

Steph: I have a follow up question to that. Do you think you know looking back at those years that were really hard for you, do you think think you were able to build something within yourself like looking back now to those years maybe 12 to 15 or 16 that were so hard for you. Do you think that played into the strength you built later?

Alexa Curtis: A thousand percent. I mean the bullying, the insecurity, the eating disorder that is all who I— It’s literally is me. That is me. I don’t think that had I not gone through this I especially wouldn’t have been able to make a platform like this because I would have just been blogging about— And that’s why I got out of fashion I was like, “This is great but this isn’t what I dealt with.” And I wanted to find me when I was younger somebody like me to talk to. So it is everything that I built is based on those experiences.

Sue: So everything you’ve just talked about is about finding some internal strength and feeling good about yourself which leads me to the next question. You’ve spoken about how to land your dream job and involved in that you gave some really good tips by the way and I have a kid looking for a job right now so I’m really excited to have her listen to this and I don’t have to tell her because she doesn’t listen to me anyway. How do you sell yourself? Which is a part of landing your dream job, right?

Alexa Curtis: Of course. I think building relationships at the youngest age that you can whether that’s an internship, whether that’s some type of like relationship on social media with the kind of company you would dream of working for and I think a lot of people overlook these steps. It’s really quite normal that whether or not you go to college you get some type of internship or some type of experience working because people think they’re going to get out of college and go right into the workplace and if you can both build some of those relationships prior to even entering college you’re already ahead of the next generation because you have people now you can fall back on. And I think that’s a really crucial part of getting your dream job is building relationships the minute that you even get access to a computer. Stop scrolling through Instagram and start thinking of you know what you want to be and who you want to be when you’re older.

Sue: And can you give any steps? I think you had a few ideas of what people looking for their first job can do.

Alexa Curtis: Yes I did I did a segment a few weeks ago on CNN for it and the number one thing that I said was networking. Always having business cards is so important even if that means making a business card when you’re just getting out of high school, even if it just is your name your name on it and whenever you’re out in public like you know introducing yourself to people that could always lead to something and then also being quite cautious of what you put out into the world whether that’s on any social media platform or whether that’s even on a LinkedIn profile. Being quite professional or having business cards goes hand in hand with what you put out into the world and what you let people see. So those are kind of my top two. And then also being so familiar and comfortable, you have to get so comfortable with rejection because whether you want to run your own company like I do or work a 9 to 5 job. It’s not always gonna be easy and straightforward and you have to definitely get yourself ready for those hurdles you’re going to have to overcome.

Sue: So my last question to you which might be a little harder than it is for everyone else. We ask this of all of our guests what’s the biggest myth you think there is about teenagers?

That we’re stupid. I think that there’s this expectation that kids can’t do things. I remember the amount of times where I was in high school and teachers would be like, “Oh you want to work in fashion?” And now I’m not in fashion anymore but when I had initially started the blog about fashion the amount of teachers that were like, “You’re going to make no money off of that why are you even trying?” Instead of being supportive and aware of the fact that a young person could fail. Most people just jump right to the failure. And I think that if older people and the older generations can realize that they went through trial and error, why are we not allowed to? I think that that creates a healthier environment especially when people go and get those dream jobs. But yeah I mean young people are not stupid even if they’re not excelling in school that doesn’t mean they’re stupid. That probably just means that they either need help or that they’re going to be the next Steve Jobs.

Sue: Great answer, thank you. Thanks so much for being here with us.

Alexa Curtis: Thank you so much for having me. Great questions.

Steph: Thanks for joining us for the Your Teen podcast. If you have any topics that you want us to talk about let us know on our Facebook page or email editor@yourteenmag.com.

Sue: Your Teen with Sue and Steph is a production of Evergreen podcasts. Special thanks to executive producer Michael DeAloia plus producer Hannah Leach and audio engineer Eric Koltnow.

Steph: You can find more from us at yourteenmag.com, at evergreenpodcasts.com or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Sue: And don’t forget if you like today’s podcast please leave us an iTunes review. Help other parents find our podcast.

Steph: We’ll see you next time.