Move from Mass Marketing to Lifestyle Modeling

Jim Marous (00:12):

Welcome to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking, I'm your host, Jim Marous. By far, the most critical challenge facing most retail financial institutions is how to accelerate the organic growth and customer acquisition in a more and more competitive and technology-driven landscape.

Jim Marous (00:32):

I'm joined today on the Banking Transformed Podcast by Sumeet Grover, the Executive Vice President and Chief Strategic Growth and Digital Officer at Austin-based University Federal Credit Union.

Jim Marous (00:44):

I met Sumeet at the Financial Brand Forum this year, and he immediately impressed me with the amount of knowledge he had from his background, but also what he's doing today. Sumeet is going to bring a very unique perspective to this conversation.

Jim Marous (00:59):

He is a renowned financial services thought leader with nearly two decades of experience at Citibank, where he held leadership positions, including marketing, digital transformation and client experience. And most recently, he served as the EVP and Chief Digital and Marketing Officer at Alliant Credit Union, the largest digital credit union in the United States.

Jim Marous (01:20):

In today's conversation, we're exploring the most significant obstacles that are hindering sustainable growth, identifying the most promising opportunities on the horizon and discussing how AI is fundamentally transforming the growth model for retail financial services.

Jim Marous (01:40):

Well, I'll tell you right now, Sumeet brings more to the table from an intelligence and perspective and energy level than we've had in a long time, and we've had some great guests. Be sure you stick on the line when he talks about the challenges he faces (even though he's running a really tight ship right now), and the opportunities he sees on the horizon.

Jim Marous (02:04):

On top of finding out what we did at the end of the podcast, also listen to how he sets up what he's achieving and what he has set out for himself as a goal at UFCU. It's really astounding where he wants to go and probably, mirrors the mission many of you are on as well.

Jim Marous (02:24):

Community financial institutions are facing an unprecedented challenge. While they've built the reputations on personal relationships and local trust, they're now competing against digital-first organizations that are billion-dollar organizations, and also billion-dollar tech firms that acquire customers at scale.

Jim Marous (02:45):

For credit unions and community banks, the question isn't just how to grow, it's how to grow while staying true to their member-first mission.

Jim Marous (02:53):

Rising customer acquisition costs, evolving digital expectations and the need for significant technology investments are putting pressure on institutions that have traditionally succeeded through community connections rather than marketing budgets.

Jim Marous (03:09):

So, Sumeet, it's been a while since we've met each other and where we last worked together at the Financial Brand Forum, but you've spent much of your career in financial services industry, including 20 years at Citi and four years at what I consider the most progressive digital only credit union, Alliant. What has been the biggest challenge the industry has faced from your perspective today?

Sumeet Grover (03:33):

Hi Jim, and thanks for having me, this is very exciting. Biggest challenge, let's narrow it down then. I think it's a foundational shift. One, from being a product centric financial institution to a platform-based engagement industry, which is driven by real time data, real time mobile experiences, and an open ecosystem. That I think is what's driving that change.

Sumeet Grover (04:00):

The future of finance isn't about managing money, it's about anticipating those life-altering experiences and providing financial wellbeing.

Jim Marous (04:11):

That's interesting because we all talk about personalization and the reality, is we don't do it very well. I just posted on a post by JP Nicols, a friend of mine who talked about the fact that we talk about personalization, we do it very poorly.

Jim Marous (04:25):

And I said, “Well, I'd like to raise my hand and tell you that my financial institution, while I don't believe they know me and understand me, I know they have the data to know me internally, they just don't show me that, except if I have an overdraft, and then they're immediate.”

Jim Marous (04:39):

They're immediate as far as real time, they talk to me as one person to one person, and they tell me, "I don't have enough funds in my account." So, they get personalization right sometimes, but the reality is right now, I think the biggest challenges that community financial institutions are facing is in the customer acquisition and organic growth.

Jim Marous (05:00):

This challenge, while they've been there, the reality is how to answer those challenges are brand new. So, what do you see as the biggest challenge facing organizations as they're trying to solve the problem of acquisition and growth?

Sumeet Grover (05:18):

Great question. I'll actually put it in three buckets. I would say the first is tied to what you just said, privacy-driven targeting and data. I think the challenges have evolved and so have acquisition and growth expectations. When we look at iOS platforms, third party cookie laws, et cetera, how do we think through those privacy-driven targeting limits and how do we manage around that.

Sumeet Grover (05:42):

Second, I would say is behavioral fragmentation. And one of the research studies I recently saw, 71% of Gen Z use two or more FinTechs, neobanks or financial institutions. So, that behavioral fragmentation doesn't make acquisition easier, it makes it more complicated and generates more noise in the system.

Sumeet Grover (06:02):

And third, I would say is commoditization. Most financial apps now offer similar features, table stakes, it's not about the bells and whistles. So, growth depends on that contextual relevance via either first party data or journey signals.

Sumeet Grover (06:17):

The challenge around cost of acquisition or CAC — that CAC isn't rising because of cost inflation, Jim, it's actually rising because of contextual decay, and that's where we need to break through that noise and personalize right.

Jim Marous (06:35):

It's interesting because it's obviously a challenge for every organization. You’re relatively new at UFCU, how are you approaching these challenges and what strategies are you trying to implement to improve conversion and growth while still managing costs? Because again, we have a finite budget here as a community organization.

Sumeet Grover (06:57):

I mean, every financial institution has a finite budget, it just depends on the size and how much they're willing to spend as part of their revenue.

Sumeet Grover (07:04):

But my focus is more from moving away from mass marketing, and that's been the case, be it at Citibank, Alliant or now, at University Federal Credit Union. How are we being extremely member focused and pivoting from that mass marketing to precision lifecycle modeling using that data.

Sumeet Grover (07:22):

So, let me give you a few examples there on how to think through this or how I'm thinking through this. First is, where can AI models analyze behavior to trigger the next best action and result in that right outreach? So, minimizing that mass marketing and being extremely focused.

Sumeet Grover (07:38):

Second is looking at that contextual onboarding and upsell flows, and reducing the turnover there. Let's engage with our members, we have so much data about them, maximize that acquisition and engagement and think through it from a lifecycle modeling perspective.

Sumeet Grover (07:55):

Third, I would say is we have trust. As a credit union, we have built trust with our membership base, and that trust results in brand value and brand recall. So, how do we use those influencer and referral programs to yield CACs that are way lower than paid advertising? Paid and affiliate marketing is expensive, let's maximize on referral and influencer marketing.

Sumeet Grover (08:22):

And then finally, I'll say let's also experiment as much as we can with predictive life event modeling so we can surface those timely offers. The lowest CAC isn't going to come from the best ads, it's going to come from the best-timed insights and delivery of that message.

Jim Marous (08:40):

It's interesting, you're relatively new as I mentioned to UFCU. You've worked at a very, very, very large financial institution and a relatively small but digital only credit union. You came into UFCU with a whole lot of hoopla from the organization talking about what you're going to bring to the organization, how you're going to reinforce your members obsessed culture, how you're going to use data to drive a more digital engagement perspective.

Jim Marous (09:11):

What was the first thing you did? Because I'm thinking about the listeners. The listeners are probably looking at themselves going, "How do I move from a branch-based organization to one that's digital, but still very human?"

Jim Marous (09:24):

What are the first things you did when you came to UFCU to make it so that the platform was ready for what you have on your plate?

Sumeet Grover (09:33):

Great question, Jim. So, the first thing to think through is embedding member feedback into every decision you make. And then this is agnostic of the channel; doesn't matter it's branch, it doesn't matter it's digital, it doesn't matter it's the call center. I want all channels to provide first contact resolution but I want all channels to build trust, and that comes from a place of understanding member feedback in the channel of their preference.

Sumeet Grover (09:59):

And clearly, look, as I want to manage my operating expenses, as I want to look at my acquisition cost, I'm going to switch between channels and I'm going to look at the most effective play over there, but I want to be member obsessed.

Sumeet Grover (10:11):

And being that member obsessed means looking at member data, understanding their needs, embedding that feedback into product sprints and into roadmap decisions, creating those journey metrics, which we usually don't look at.

Sumeet Grover (10:25):

Sometimes we look at across institutions, I'm just generalizing here, NPS (Net Promoter Scores) or OSAT scores or member satisfaction scores, but are we looking at journey metrics from an impact perspective? How do we drive a design and measurement that's impactful with the least possible effort, understanding the sentiment of the consumer and driving the outcomes we are focused on?

Sumeet Grover (10:54):

How do we create that closed loop personalization and use member interactions to shape both the messaging and the member experience? That's my primary focus. Being member-obsessed doesn't mean you listen louder, it means you adapt faster.

Jim Marous (11:11):

Wow. But it's interesting because the first thing you mentioned was that you reached out to find out what are your members currently saying. It wasn't about implementing a new personalization strategy, it wasn't about getting your data in order. First thing you mentioned was, "I first want to find out what my members thought about me today and what they're challenged with and build from there."

Jim Marous (11:35):

So, what I think you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you were trying to determine what is going to be the North Star for the organization from the members perspective as opposed to simply what you were told by your executive management before you came on board at the organization.

Sumeet Grover (11:52):

And the executive management had a good sense of the direction we wanted to be in. So, it absolutely informs, and the conversation we have had in the past, Jim, also implies that this is not a one man journey, this is the entire team coming together, 700 plus employees working towards that same North Star and understanding the role that we all, each one of us plays into that. So, you're spot on in how you summarize that.

Sumeet Grover (12:15):

And I'll also add that obtaining that member buy-in of course, because you understand their feedback and you know their needs, executive buy-in because you have to deliver together, the board buy-in, so there's clarity in terms of what it means for growth of the institution, the engagement we want with our members, the member obsession we have, and the purpose we want to drive.

Sumeet Grover (12:37):

As a credit union, I have that undue advantage, I'm making all my decisions with member first, we are owned by our members. Makes it so much easier because now I can very easily tie this impacts, drives positive behavior and makes their life better. It's a win-win.

Jim Marous (12:53):

We talked about this in the Financial Brand Forum. I think one thing that's really unique about the industry today compared to even five years ago, is there is more technology available to organizations of any asset size than ever.

Jim Marous (13:08):

There are more partners that you can partner with to get to where you want to go than ever, but it still takes the culture, the leadership to deploy against that. Because you can invest all you want in technology, but if you don't have the organization running at the same pace and the same road, you're going to fall off the road real quickly, it's going to implode.

Jim Marous (13:32):

What have you seen because again, you've came from various different environments — what have you seen from the standpoint of partner providers on what's available out there today to make it so you can achieve your goals that you've been set at your organization today?

Sumeet Grover (13:53):

It's a great ecosystem, it's evolving very, very fast. And as we are talking, I'm sure two or three new fintech ideas just came into mind. But this is where technology is giving us those capabilities to be able to advance and deliver for our members at a pace unprecedented.

Sumeet Grover (14:10):

The use of artificial intelligence, the use of blockchain, the ability to create new digital products much, much faster in a very agile environment gives us those flexibility. What I would say is, and Jim, our mission here is to be one of the most technologically advanced credit union in the country. That's one of the North Stars on the mission I'm targeting.

Sumeet Grover (14:32):

Now to do that, it's not about having the right software or the right hardware, the way I think about it, is it's about adaptability and working with that partnership and the ecosystem that you just referenced. I want adaptability when it comes to being cloud-native, I want it from a perspective of being API-first.

Sumeet Grover (14:50):

So, creating those stacks, composable digital layers, real time data mesh, plug and play FinTech integrations, and having very strong ethics and governance frameworks when it comes to security, AI implementation, et cetera.

Sumeet Grover (15:06):

That tech leadership isn't about how much I can build, it's about how fast can I evolve while building trust with my members. And that's where the partners and the ecosystem that's developing around me and that open finance and embedded finance concepts come into play and make it real.

Jim Marous (15:24):

It's interesting, you should bring that up because I don't know if you were able to attend my executive leadership session where I interviewed Dominic Ventura from U.S. Bank, a great friend of mine who I've known for over a decade, and he talked about the redefinition of resilience.

Jim Marous (15:38):

And I think what you just described is what he just said, which is it's not just about fraud and risk when you talk about resilience and making sure your systems stay up and running 99.99% of the time, it's much deeper than that.

Jim Marous (15:52):

It’s how well are you adapting to the marketplace? How quickly can you pivot as the marketplace changes? How was your technology going to adjust if a new product has to be introduced or if something comes up from a member response to a survey, you say, "We've got to fix this right now."

Jim Marous (16:11):

I think that's something that … this was out of the realm of even thinking about for a community-based financial institution. But now, I would imagine it’s how you select a lot of your partners, is their ability to be resilient with each other as well as with you and their organizations.

Sumeet Grover (16:29):

McKinsey estimated that AI would generate between 200 and $340 billion in annual value for the banking sector. How is your organization and you approaching the implementation of AI, and where do you see the most significant impact on member acquisition and experience?

Sumeet Grover (16:50):

Love that, Jim. We couldn't have a conversation without going deeper into AI, so I love you're going in that direction, and excellent data that you shared as well. So, let me touch on it from four perspectives. The first one is engagement. We spoke a little bit about acquisitions, so let me go a little deeper into engagement.

Sumeet Grover (17:07):

AI models can now predict lifecycle needs. How do we implement them and make that extremely effective so that next best personalization, be it an onboarding, cross sell, up sell, down sell, or even overall financial wellness, it's a no brainer. Let's use that modeling for predicting those lifecycle needs and let's be where our members need us.

Sumeet Grover (17:27):

Second, from an efficiency standpoint, we look at AI machine learning, RPA — we can cut processing time by 20, 30, 40, 50% (pick a process and we can go up to 80%), while ensuring that we have a net positive member satisfaction score, while flagging the right risk criteria, while minimizing fraud and delivering back end automation and efficiency so we can do more faster and seamlessly for the members.

Sumeet Grover (18:04):

Third bucket I would put in terms of data and intelligence, so that real time intelligence in using AI capabilities — a member context engine can trigger proactive offers. I'm looking at app browsing or a credit poll or a behavior on an action I'm taking either on my app, my browser site or even on third party web, and based on that, I can demonstrate what the next in-app offer should be for our members that'll be timely enough.

Sumeet Grover (18:34):

And then finally, I'll put it as being forward looking and thinking through how AI can drive dynamic underwriting with cash flow insights, how can I use AI coaching blended with advisors if I'm doing wealth management, and how can I use federated learning all within regulatory compliance and frameworks.

Sumeet Grover (18:55):

So, finally, what I would say is AI isn't about automation, it's not just about automation, it's about that orchestration, the right conversation with the right member at that right moment. That's my formula, I call it the three Rs. That's how I think through that.

Jim Marous (19:11):

It's interesting, you having worked at a digital credit union and this is your first branch-based credit union you've worked at, but you worked at a very big, branch-based large bank. There's often tension, especially nowadays between digital efficiency and the personal touch.

Jim Marous (19:28):

Not going too far, that balancing act of saying, "Where do we need to be?" And especially for a community financial institution that has been known for the personal touch, the ability to know customers by name, to really build their trust in the community, how are you balancing automation and AI with maintaining that community-focused, relationship-driven, inquisitive approach?

Sumeet Grover (19:54):

Hey, it's actually giving me tools to make it even easier. So, I think of it across channels. Doesn't matter if I'm on the phone or I'm in the branch, I know my member, I'm building my relationship through a one-on-one conversation, either in person or over the phone.

Sumeet Grover (20:09):

What's the key over there that I'm using? It's that data and information and insights that I know about my member. I know so much more in the digital landscape that once I feed that in, I can have very smart, interesting conversations with a member from a 360 perspective where I understand so much more about them.

Sumeet Grover (20:29):

When I'm at the branch, I can provide my folks at the branch the right tools to be able to service that membership. When they're on the phone, I can use those tools and capabilities.

Sumeet Grover (20:39):

The way I think through it, a true omnichannel success and what that's going to look like is one, having that continuity. You can begin in one channel and you can finish in another channel extremely seamlessly.

Sumeet Grover (20:52):

So, they're working together, they're not working, hey, is branch providing a more emotional relationship or does digital have empathy or not? Because in my framework, branch, digital and phones are working seamlessly together.

Sumeet Grover (21:10):

Second, contextually, looking at my CRM and other capabilities, do I have the right behavioral data that enables the next steps and the next action and the next message or the next conversation I need to have with a member.

Sumeet Grover (21:23):

Now, it all helps me (and that's where I started) because it gives me more control, because I know much more about the members and I can focus my tools on that but it gives the members so much more control. They can choose the channel, they can choose the timing, and they can choose the pace at which they would like to interact with me.

Sumeet Grover (21:41):

The challenge was or is for most of us legacy systems and siloed data. That is being solved through middleware orchestration platforms and some of the elements we discussed earlier. So, what does it result in? It results in an omnichannel initiative that promises continuity in the channel of the preference of the member across all segments.

Jim Marous (22:11):

You hit up on so many, I'm going to call them cliches, and that's not derogatory. But the reality is, everything you're talking about is what the industry is talking about quite a bit, but really having a challenge deploying against it, the proof is in the pudding.

Jim Marous (22:28):

As I said, my banking relationship with my commercial bank on my business side and on my personal side, I know they know me. I'm not sure if they understand me, but they do a terrible job of showing me they know me. How do you bridge that gap between what I can do and what I deploy against, and how do you get up to speed on that?

Jim Marous (22:51):

Because again, you're still relatively new at your organization, how do you get up to speed? Is it incrementally, is it with certain products? How do you bring that level of personalization that we want to deploy against to life?

Sumeet Grover (23:05):

So, Jim, I would like to give you an example of where all of us have smartphones or most of us have smartphones, and the smartphones have regular updates so that you can get the best software updates and it's safe, secure, but also gives you the right features that you're looking for.

Sumeet Grover (23:21):

Now, as we think through that model, how many times do we start thinking, "Hey, have I gotten the latest update and will I be able to use the feature that I'm looking for?" That is so seamless for us. So, if you have an iPhone and you get an update on your iPhone, it updates, now you can just set it on auto update, and you don't even know when it happened on the back end.

Sumeet Grover (23:41):

What's really happening is you're using the best technology at any given part of time to provide you the best service. And the reason I explain this to you is because I have an option where I can go start making small changes in different parts of my process and start refining them, looking at certain processes like fraud, collections, dispute and saying, "I can automate some of these."

Sumeet Grover (24:03):

Or I can just rip the band aid in all the places, and say, "We are going through a transformation across our business where we will digitize with empathy for our members, not looking at replacing channels actually, we'll be building our footprint."

Sumeet Grover (24:19):

And actually, we are adding more branches because there is a demand for branches and there is for traffic that's occurring, and members want to meet with us and talk to us. But I'm also advancing my digital strategies and I'm building the right onboarding and engagement frameworks there.

Sumeet Grover (24:34):

And then on the back end, looking at how do I run my business more efficiently? So, Jim, what's really happening is instead of looking at it from a band aid approach perspective, let's do true transformation.

Sumeet Grover (24:46):

Let's get our teams aligned, let's focus on that agility, let's get the right skillset. Because sometimes, talent is required, and we may or may not have worked on those projects in the past. But let's not go through incremental changes in all areas, in some areas we may just have to rip the band aid and go fast.

Sumeet Grover (25:04):

AI can automate routine, high volume tasks, ID verification as an example, knowledge bases that we use on our system, members want to interact with us either through chat or bots — human handles emotion-driven moments; declined loans, escalations.

Sumeet Grover (25:21):

I want to create a model that is warm and maximizes the usage between the both of them. Let's train our staff to read the digital body language, a dropped application, a proactive care call can solve.

Sumeet Grover (25:38):

Digital can remove those lines of friction, humans can read between those lines, let's bring them together, and at UFCU, that's where we would like to be. A true omnichannel platform powered by data, providing that personalization.

Jim Marous (25:53):

Let's take a short break here and recognize the sponsors of this podcast.

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (26:00):

Welcome back to Banking Transformed. So, essentially, to me that credit unions traditionally skew to older demographically pretty much because in the past at least they weren't keeping up to speed, so the more progressive large organizations were getting, the younger consumer, just the dynamics of flow of funds.

Jim Marous (26:20):

What specific strategies is UFCU using to attract millennials, Gen Z to balance out your demographic profile a little bit, and what have you learned about this process from the standpoint of how to change the composition of the financial institution?

Sumeet Grover (26:36):

That's an interesting question and I think a lot of credit unions and banks are asking themselves that: how do you cater to the younger generations that's going to be the bigger population that you serve? How do you bring them on board and how do you kind of handle them?

Sumeet Grover (26:50):

At University Federal Credit Union, I have that advantage. We are based out of Austin, we do have a very young population here, and we get the best of both worlds. We are catering to generational members and we are catering to the newer members that are either going through education or starting their first jobs and thinking through that.

Sumeet Grover (27:11):

And they have grown up being extremely digitally savvy. They have grown up in a digital world but I do see them coming to branches. Because Jim, when you’re taking your first auto loan, because now you just moved out of home and you're at a college, who's walking you through the process and helping you understand you're making those right decisions, the right financial decisions.

Sumeet Grover (27:32):

When you're renting a home and you're thinking through different elements of I need to do auto payment for my monthly rent or if I'm leasing a place, how would that work? And that translates into understanding the needs of the millennials, the Gen Zs — I cater to a very large younger population, and that population is growing at an incredible pace, which is great.

Sumeet Grover (27:56):

Understanding those bundles that you can create, aligning to their product and life stage needs. So, if you're a grad, you're renting, you're thinking about your first job, what are the financial wellness products or services you need?

Sumeet Grover (28:10):

Then we come into that actual account opening process or eligibility. Mobile on-boarding takes less than three minutes, the technologies are in place today. So, if I'm making it harder, I'm actually not serving the population to the needs of a faster, adaptable, flexible, safe environment.

Sumeet Grover (28:32):

But I'm also thinking through student ambassadors and creators that can help drive social media, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube because Jim, the social media has evolved. We do get financial advice from social media at times now and we want to maximize if we're getting the right information and we are catering to the universe in the right way.

Sumeet Grover (28:55):

So, one of the things that University Federal of course, focusing on all generations, but definitely looking at attracting millennials and Gen Zs, but emphasizing on that community impact, which is a key preference for Gen Zs.

Sumeet Grover (29:09):

And one of the recent researches I was looking at, 70% of Gen Zs actually align with value focused brands. Let's not forget the four Ps of marketing: product, price, plays, promotion. Price plays a key role, but at the same time, when we are looking at value and we are looking at the brand, do I connect? Gen Zs, I would say don't always want a credit union bank or financial institution, they want to co-pilot with values that align to their values. That's where we make a difference.

Jim Marous (29:43):

So, we mentioned earlier or you mentioned earlier that your role is focusing explicitly on making University Federal Credit Union the most technologically advanced credit union in America. What does that end state look like from your perspective, and what key capabilities or technologies will help to define that leadership position? That's a pretty lofty goal as you know.

Sumeet Grover (30:08):

Correct. It's when I become natural and organic. When I'm not focused on competition and when I'm not focused on, is my app downloaded on your phone or not? And it's not when you’re thinking about me … it's very different than social media apps.

Sumeet Grover (30:24):

Like if you're on one of the social media apps, you are there and you're consuming content. When you're at a financial services app, you are there for a transaction, you're there because a need has to be met, and how can I do it organically where you're not always thinking about, "Oh, I have to go to the branch or I have to call and I have to fix this situation, or I need to understand if my paycheck came in or not."

Sumeet Grover (30:45):

Let's drive that digital self-serve, it makes sense. Let's drive the education and the channel of the preference of the member. Let's understand their proactive needs and wants, and make it so organic that it's a part of their day-to-day life. Not for the sake of technology, but technology as an enabler that drives financial wellness.

Sumeet Grover (31:06):

So, when a member is thinking (we’re all members), “I have a financial need, the question isn't which brand can solve that for me because I would've built that trust through the infrastructure.” Traditionally, when we think of technology, we start thinking of do we have all the right features? Do we have the bells and whistles? How do we compete with the FinTechs, the neobanks, the big banks?

Sumeet Grover (31:30):

I came from the big bank, you mentioned that, and we were building features and capabilities and doing a lot of testing. The advantage at University and the advantage I had at Alliant as well, we can move so fast, we can be extremely nimble, and we can make those changes for our members.

Sumeet Grover (31:46):

At University, we're using the digital innovation labs, trying to understand the needs of our younger members and how they would react to certain product designs or certain messaging, or certain channel interactions that we would have with them.

Sumeet Grover (31:59):

So, technology is an enabler, it's an infrastructure, it's a need that's on the backend. I don't want my members thinking, "Hey, do they have the right technology? Are they advanced enough? Can they provide the security protocols that are needed?"

Sumeet Grover (32:13):

Jim, the end state, it's organic, they have a need, they go to my app, they go to the branch, they call it my call center or they use my automated chat, whatever platform is preferred to them, and their need is met, and the golden rule over here would be let it be a first contact resolution, and then it's a win-win.

Jim Marous (32:35):

So, I've gone through more job positions than you have as I look at your resume, I look at mine. And in each situation where I went to a new job, there was lofty goals, there was great intention, there was a great conversation, otherwise I wouldn't have gone to the organization, but not everything always went to plan.

Jim Marous (32:56):

You've been at UFCU for a while, what challenges have you seen within your organization, that doesn't mean it's a bad situation, but what challenges have you seen that maybe you weren't maybe necessarily ready for or if you were ready for, maybe it's bigger than you thought.

Sumeet Grover (33:12):

I think it's more on the maturity. Transformation is a journey, there's never an end state, and you know our processes, our products are in different phases of that journey, and I think the beauty of it is, let's pick on the top two or three that we would focus on, and that comes through understanding our members' journeys and the pain points in those journeys, and how do we simplify them.

Sumeet Grover (33:34):

And that's what I'm working on. How do we mature from a transformation perspective in the journeys where our members might have certain pain points or there might be certain frictions in the process.

Sumeet Grover (33:44):

And like you said, it might not be a bad thing, but can it be improved? Can we make it more seamless and secure where it's a no brainer, "Hey, this is a need, I know UFCU, you can meet that need for me," and that’s in diversity of products. So, having that right product suite, having the right digital capabilities where you can digital self-serve whenever you want, wherever you want it.

Sumeet Grover (34:06):

I sometimes say we have our 25 plus branches, but at the same time, we have over 400,000 branches in the palm of our hands, every single member has a branch in their hand at any given time, let's give them the tools and capabilities they need.

Sumeet Grover (34:24):

So, it's more about that evolution and how do we keep evolving and using the right capabilities. Some of the ones we discussed earlier like using artificial intelligence not just to drive operating efficiencies, but also to drive growth for the business.

Jim Marous (34:39):

So, honestly, you're one of the most visionary people I've ever met in the recent past around digital banking, what it can be, what it can become, and have a clear vision as to how to get there. That said, everyone around you has to get some level of that understanding, that passion, that vision, that motivation. How do you get the people around you to see the world the way you see it?

Sumeet Grover (35:06):

Yes. And that requires at times, upskilling and at times, also unlocking the doors of what's possible and sharing the right use cases. So, one of the things, of course, is a focus area for me over here is how do I bring the entire organization along that journey, understanding how we can be nimble and agile, and sometimes, that's how we operate and what frameworks we deal with.

Sumeet Grover (35:31):

Traditionally, financial institutions would always think in terms of, “I want to design a product and when that product is ready, I will test it, and when it's perfect, I'll launch it.” Truly, we are in the MVP world where let's try and test for the members, let's co-develop and co-design with the members, let's look at where that friction is in the process and remove it.

Sumeet Grover (35:50):

So, moving fast, being agile, it's okay to make mistakes but you're learning from them and making the process even better for the member. Bringing my team along is critical, and when I say my team Jim, it's the entire credit union because every single front end and back end employee plays a key role on that.

Sumeet Grover (36:07):

So, how do I showcase to them the right use cases, what role they play in this, and of course, also help them understand how we can move towards a more agile operating organization using sprints as we kind of build our digital products and services, being extremely product owner mindset-oriented, thinking through our project management infrastructure from a perspective of prioritization, and focusing on the right things that we can all align on and be fully focused on.

Jim Marous (36:38):

So, what's on your to-do list right now? What's the biggest thing you're working on that is the top priority on your to-do list at UFCU right now?

Sumeet Grover (36:48):

Quite a few things, I wouldn't say it's one top priority. Well, one, of course, so maybe if I could take the liberty of going more than one, it's understanding our data and ensuring we have a good grasp of our members data, insights, needs and wants.

Sumeet Grover (37:07):

Second is having the infrastructure around being able to understand the behaviors and learning from those behaviors, and iterating and using, in this case, generative AI and other capabilities to give us more informed insights from those behaviors. And then using the organization and its platforms to break silos, integrate those analytics, and then aligning the product strategies around them.

Sumeet Grover (37:37):

So, it's quite a lot, it's not just one — maybe if I put it in a nutshell, it's bringing the teams together on a focused vision, but then breaking that down into very clear projects that will drive the most value for our members, for our community and for our employees.

Jim Marous (37:57):

Finally, looking ahead two years, I used to say 10 years, sometimes I said five years — now two years is a long-term vision. If you had to identify the single most crucial factor that would determine whether or not a financial institution will be successfully growing and those that don't, what would it be?

Sumeet Grover (38:17):

Okay, single most, maybe I'll put it as strategic agility, organizing around the signals from our members and acting really fast, being dynamic. The future belongs to institutions that can turn those member signals into action before the competition even sees them.

Jim Marous (38:38):

Sumeet, it's very interesting, you hit all the hot buttons that I live, breathe and die by, and it's interesting because you've been involved in organizations that have done this. Sometimes, you have to adjust, I think I brought up to you one time that at Citibank, I remember the time when they had an account opening experience that was well beyond what it should be digitally.

Jim Marous (39:03):

And what they did, they fixed the personal part of that and said, "Okay, if we find something that starts to process but then abandons it, we will immediately get ahold of them and bring them back into it." That was not a three minute-process, but the reality is, a person's not going to hang up on a person that calls you if it's immediate, and they found a bridge until they got to the place they had to be.

Jim Marous (39:26):

I think it's interesting to also gives it Alliant — everything they did was to increase the value to their employees and to their members. Because they knew that from not only a tax perspective, but also a digital perspective, they were running much more efficiently than any other organization in the country and they were.

Jim Marous (39:47):

I think your organization here is kind of like a brand new sandbox, and I'm going to be looking at what you're doing because you're providing the guidance to any organization that is saying, “I've got to move my organization quickly to be a growth organization built on digital that still has human touch, and the only way you do that is to transform.”

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (40:11):

And as you continually said, in every answer with speed and with scale, be it in how you train your employees or how you generate new funding, the reality is speed and scale.

Jim Marous (40:24):

So, Sumeet, thank you so much for being on the show today, I'm glad we finally got you on. It took a little longer than I thought it was going to, but we're going to have you on again because I think that there's a whole lot of secrets that you have around how to grow in a FinTech first world that organizations of all sizes can learn from. So, thank you again for being on the show.

Sumeet Grover (40:47):

I appreciate the opportunity. Have a great day. Thank you.

Jim Marous (40:50):

Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the winner of three international awards for podcast excellence. If you enjoy what we're doing, we sure would appreciate it if you give us a positive review. Finally, be sure to check out my recent articles on The Financial Brand and the research we're doing for the Digital Banking Report.

Jim Marous (41:08):

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts, a special thank you to our senior producer, Leah Haslage; audio engineer, Chris Fafalios, and video producer, Will Pritts.

Jim Marous (41:18):

Finally, if you have not already done so, please remember to subscribe to Banking Transformed on both your favorite podcast app and on YouTube to make sure that we can hit you up whenever we have another thought-provoking …