David Jakubovic presents, "CBD Nation"

B.C. Wehman:
The United States makes up 75% of the world's prescription drug usage.

Heather Grayson:
And we are prescribing opioids upon opioids for pain management.

B.C. Wehman:
But what if there was a substance that could help with chronic pain, but it's illegal?

Heather Grayson:
Riley was your typical kid until a large aggressive tumor began to eat away her teeth, cheek bones and eye sockets causing her to have surgery that left her with seizures.

B.C. Wehman:
Jayden suffers from a rare form of epilepsy, giving him seizures so severe that he cannot speak or play.

Heather Grayson:
And [Cio 00:00:41] has suffered from depression and anxiety her whole life.

B.C. Wehman:
In all of these cases, prescription medications weren't treating all of the symptoms and then they found CBD.

Heather Grayson:
Hi. I'm Heather Grayson, writer, producer, and director who craves passion in filmmaking, and documentarians are just that. I write fiction, but I love to watch the truth.

B.C. Wehman:
My name is B.C. Wehman. I'm an actor, a writer, and entertainer, all sorts of creative endeavors. But what I love most? Being a storyteller. It's why I love documentaries. They're extraordinary stories from everyday, extraordinary people.

Heather Grayson:
This is Behind the Doc. And today, we are behind the scenes of CBD Nation.

Movie Clip:
When I was really young, I had an issue with depression and anxiety, so I had a really hard time at school because I was having panic attacks all the time. I used to take pills to help things, but then take other pills to help other things. I was given Zoloft, Effexor, Clonazepam, Ativan, Xanax. What else was there? Wellbutrin, Trazodone, Lyrica, which is actually an anti-seizure medication, but they ran out of medications to give me, so they gave that to me. Then, my nose started bleeding at nighttime. Because I was on antidepressants that made me not focus, I had to take Dexedrine, which is an ADHD medication, which is for focusing. But then that would give me crazy anxiety. I went to different doctors. Every time I told them that I wanted to be either off the medication, because it wasn't working for me and causing side effects or lower the dose, they would actually double the dose. I felt like a zombie all the time, just not myself until I went on Facebook and I saw things about CBD.

B.C. Wehman:
Here on Behind the Doc, we watch a lot of documentary films. Some of them are happy. Some of them make you feel sad. Some of them are lighthearted. Some of them could be life changing. That's what we hope this next film may do whether whatever side you fall on. When it comes to the legalized cannabis argument, there's a lot of arguments to be made on the side of what Director David Jakubovic has talked about in CBD Nation. We're very excited to have him join us today on Behind the Doc. David, how are you doing?

David Jakubovic:
I am excellent. How are you?

B.C. Wehman:
I am well. I am well. Thank you for joining us very much on Behind the Doc. Just a little bit of background before we ended up going into the film, so our audience get to know you a little bit.

David Jakubovic:
I'm a filmmaker. I was an editor for many years and edited a lot of different types of movies and TV shows. Then, in the last few years, I've come to really love directing documentaries and found that that is a good creative home for me. I started focusing very intensely on that and specifically on science related subjects, I found that those are really interesting to me because they're so hard. They're so hard in terms of learning the content and figuring out how to talk about it in a movie to a layperson audience, and I find that very gratifying.

B.C. Wehman:
I think a really interesting note from your past and let me make sure I read this right, that you picked up filmmaking or began when you entered into the Israeli Air Force. Is that correct?

David Jakubovic:
I made films in high school, which is why when I went into the Air Force, because in Israel, everyone has to go into the military for three years. All men have to do three years. All women have to do just under two years. Because I did it in high school, my job ended up being to make training films for the Israeli Air Force, which is an interesting way to start your career because you're making movies about highly technical things that you'll never understand, right? You're like how to make this plane fly basically, right? Or how to make this plane do a certain type of thing, which as you do it again and again, you start understanding what you need to know and what you don't need to know, what the content experts can know without you really understanding it, and you start getting a feel for how to make movies like that in a way that's going to be entertaining.

B.C. Wehman:
CBD Nation has done a really good job. As you mentioned, your background, and I think maybe all the way back to your Air Force training videos, how to explain something, which can seem technically overwhelming sometimes to everyone. That's what I think CBD Nation did very well. When this investor got to you or approached you, were you apprehensive? Were you thinking, "I'm not making a stoner film?" Is this like the reality show of Dazed and Confused?" Were you a little nervous when you heard it, or what were your preconceived notions on whether it's CBD or THC or any sort of legalized cannabis heading into this when they approached you?

David Jakubovic:
I actually had a funny reaction. I got a little bit bummed out about it. The reason is because I thought, "Well, here's an opportunity to make a movie," but I couldn't care less about the subject. I definitely had preconceived notions about cannabis. I've never been much of a user. I had it a bunch of times and throughout my life always got... Because I never built any sort of tolerance for it, every time I did, I got stoned beyond belief. I didn't really like it. I had my preconceived notions about people who use a lot of cannabis. Now, sort of ashamed to admit that, that I used to find stoners annoying. I used the word stoners with quotes, and probably CBD, I thought then is some kind of... It's just another wellness fad that people are probably touting as some miracle drug bullshit out there.

David Jakubovic:
It's just not going to be really interesting to do a documentary on, but then I started... But I thought, "Let's do some research." I started doing research and really with cannabis, it's fascinating. All you need to do is minutes of real research. You go on Google Scholar and you start looking up scientific papers and you start listening to some TED Talks by real scientists and not by just random people who want to talk positively about the plans. All you need to do is a little bit of research and you start very quickly to realize that this is very, very real.

Movie Clip:
What we find, however, is cannabis can have pain blocking effects.

Movie Clip:
There's a pretty big body of research that says cannabis is effective for chronic pain.

Movie Clip:
I reviewed thousands of pages of the literature, and I really looked at it carefully.

David Jakubovic:
When I think of all the cannabis related movies and documentaries I had seen, they all seem to be... Or often. I don't want to say all. They're often made within the context of cannabis culture somehow. They're not serious entirely. I think that that was my wake up call was I think if I can make a movie that's about science where the science itself is emotionally... You can connect emotionally to it, and the science is being supported by the stories of people and not the other way around, that there could be something here that would be viable.

Heather Grayson:
I cried so much during this film just for the subjects that you have in the film. How did you come about in meeting them and deciding to put them in your film? Because they were absolutely some of the driving force where I was like, "I have to pay attention to this."

David Jakubovic:
It's my favorite thing with documentaries is how you come to the stories because there's no textbook about it. Right? One of the very first things I did when I realized I think this is something I'd like to explore is I was going to go to Israel because I go there all the time, because I'm from there. They had this big conference in Tel Aviv called [Kenetech 00:08:25] and I thought... They had a lot of speakers, and scientists and stuff like that. I thought I'll go and listen to some lectures. I was blown away by the technology science vibe of the whole thing. This did not feel like a weed conference, right? It felt like a tech conference. They started listening to these speeches. I was just, again, just like my research online, blown away by the science. But one of the things I saw was a panel in which [Janie Mailer 00:08:52], who's the mother of a seven-year-old... Well, she was seven at the time named [Riley 00:08:57].

Riley:
Okay. It all started the summer before I started second grade and it turned out I had a giant cell granuloma tumor.

Janie Mailer:
It's considered a benign bone tumor. Even though it's aggressive, it would still just continue eating away the structure of her whole face, and it's life-threatening, and it has a high recurrence rate.

Riley:
My mom, she was looking online, seeing what she could do, and she found cannabis and she started giving it to me.

Janie Mailer:
Very quickly after she started the oil, her teeth started getting firmer and that gradually got better and better each week.

David Jakubovic:
They went on this amazing legal battle with the state of Delaware in order to get minors to be allowed to use medical cannabis.

Janie Mailer:
But at the time that all of this was happening, it was illegal for children in Delaware.

Riley:
Then, there was another problem where I couldn't take my medicine on school grounds.

David Jakubovic:
I saw this woman Janie doing this panel, and I was blown away by how touching it was like. I had tears in my eyes. I ran up to her after the panel and introduced myself and said, "Oh, I think I'm going to make a movie about cannabis, about CBD and stuff like that. Can we talk?" She was an American woman who was in Israel for this conference. She gave me her card and that was it.

B.C. Wehman:
Riley's story is I think a good linchpin throughout it. It brings science together with laws and just emotion. As you said, the film does an amazing job of throwing out a lot of scientific information and we'll get to that in a moment, but Riley's story was... It almost seems incredible. Too good to be true. Then, the simple fact of even if it is helping her, if CBD does help her bone tumors regress, if it does change her life literally. That is a literal statement, changed her life forever, it seems odd that so many people in hearing her story would just look the other way or ignore it. I was really excited because sometimes politicians, particularly on the conservative side will not listen to these arguments. To see those from her home state support her, put Riley's law into action, that was a nice moment on scene to see those lawmakers interact with Riley, see her walking the floor of her local legal institution and shaking hands and kissing babies. It was a really good part. I'm glad to see that law pushed forward with her being the driving force behind it.

David Jakubovic:
The parents and the children's stories are unbelievable. One of the first and important stories, I think in a modern cannabis legalization is that of Jason David.

Jason David:
I have a son named Jayden David. He was born perfectly fine. At four months old, started having seizures. My son has Dravet syndrome, a very rare form of epilepsy, the most life-threatening epilepsy out there.

David Jakubovic:
This man was just so desperate, and he finally found his way to a cannabis store in Oakland called Harborside. He convinced the people who owned it, the DeAngelo brothers to give him cannabis for his kid, which they were very afraid to do at first. Right? They ended up deciding, "Okay. Let's give him CBD and see if it works," because that won't get the kids stone.

Jason David:
I remember giving it to him that morning. I remember that day vividly, Jayden smiling, Jayden happy, Jayden dancing. It was the first day I ever seen my son not have a seizure in his life.

David Jakubovic:
These stories of the parents and children are... I get emotional thinking about it now, and it's been a year since I finished the movie. The Riley story is touching in that you have congress people just saying, "Well, there's nothing I can really do in the face of this child." Right? There's nothing I can say. Anything I can say is going to make me look like a complete psychopath basically. It's clearly helping her, so what am I going to do? Say like, "No, go die?"

Heather Grayson:
We have so many decades of research so far. For me, it's almost awful to hear that there are some doctors, there are probably neurologists that know that this can help and you are not helping the parents and showing them that, "Hey, this poor baby who at four months old is having these awful seizures," and they're not introducing this. To see Riley story with them taking her off the CBD and the reactions that she had...

Movie Clip:
Then, I began losing a lot of veterans in my practice to suicide. That was when I had this real epiphany that all these lousy pharmaceuticals that I'm writing for patients every day are not helping them. Often, they were causing more toxicity than this natural plant. The military veterans in my practice who were using the plant were actually describing this as life saving for them. I started to finally examine the scientific literature and I regretted how judgmental I was over these past many years because I probably could have saved more lives. All these vets who killed themselves may have... Who knows? I wonder if they could have benefited from this plant.

Heather Grayson:
I loved that you found that doctor who agreed with you. A lot of doctors are a little bit apprehensive in talking about this and saying, "Hey, I was wrong. I probably should have went ahead and prescribed them CBD or told them where to go." Where did you find yourself in this?

David Jakubovic:
There are many doctors out there. Okay. There are many doctors out there who just don't know the science at all. Right? They don't know anything about how the body interacts with cannabis and they have preconceived notions that they've grown up with just like everyone else. When you meet doctors who are obviously serious people who tell you, "I regret not helping people earlier with cannabis," is very powerful. These doctors exist. There are many of them, right? It's increasing. The numbers are increasing the more the knowledge gets out there. I'm hoping for this movie to just increase that exponentially if we're lucky and people see it, so that more and more doctors know about it and that more and more patients feel like they want to tell their doctors about it, "Hey, go see this movie."

B.C. Wehman:
One of the most poignant parts was this moment where you presented all these different scientific reports that clearly stated that CBD or even THC cannabis has effects that can help people potentially eliminate diseases that they may have, or at least tone down the symptoms. It was year after year and every decade, it would seem a new report would come out or even one commissioned by Richard Nixon who was very anti-cannabis. All these reports came out and they weren't just kept hidden from the public, but seemingly from these people, these doctors, so I almost feel for them because the information was available, but it seems like it was tucked away. Were you surprised to learn how much factual science research was done on the improvements that cannabis CBD, THC could have in someone's life and how they just seemingly put it away and just hit it away, so no one could have access?

David Jakubovic:
I was utterly shocked by it.

Movie Clip:
Stop saying that there's no evidence. There is evidence and it's documented. It is out there for everybody to take a look at. If we choose not to look at it, it's no longer ignorance. It's arrogance.

David Jakubovic:
The first big one that I, that I learned about is the patent. The US government, the US health department has a patent on which the main signatory scientist is a Nobel prize winning biochemist. This patent is for cannabis compounds. The main one that's in that patent is CBD for the medical efficacy of these cannabis compounds. The government has a patent on this while at the same time, it's illegal. How corrupt is that? Not only that. Here's another fun one. Dr. Raphael Mechoulam is an Israeli scientist who is in the film and he's considered the grandfather of cannabis research, right? He discovered THC in the 60s and in his lab, a lot of scientific work was done into cannabis and into the way that cannabis interacts with the body.

Movie Clip:
We have seen that in epilepsy, it blocks epileptic attacks. We published that 35 years ago. Cannabidiol blocked epileptic attacks in patients that nothing else was helping them. What happened? Nothing for 30 years.

David Jakubovic:
It's crazy. This guy is sitting there saying 37 years ago, we all really showed that CBD is helpful for epilepsy and no one listened, but do you know who funded Dr. Mechoulam for decades via grants? The National Institute of Health, NIH, the US government. While it's illegal here, it's being researched, paid for by American taxes in other countries. It's just disheartening. It kind of makes you crazy, but it also makes you realize, "Oh, this is real."

B.C. Wehman:
Real quick, were you pretty excited to learn that the grandfather of pretty much all scientific knowledge when it comes to cannabis was also of Israeli descent? Was that like [TMU 00:18:24]? Are you excited for that?

David Jakubovic:
That was fun because first of all, it's another excuse to go to Israel, but also it was fun to conduct interviews in Hebrew because I had been in the US since I was 21. Other than in the military, I never really worked in Hebrew except for on the occasional moment. That was, that was fun. Also, Israel is one of the leading places in the world in cannabis research, and that's a cool thing to show.

Heather Grayson:
In looking at the film, it's wonderfully done and the really great parts about it too, is that you kind of have fun with it. We have these great illustrations and these animations. Tell us about the artist.

David Jakubovic:
Yeah. Her name is Sarah Winters. She lives in Colorado. I'd met her... This was with a third project we had done together. We made two short documentaries on quantum physics before that.

Heather Grayson:
Fun.

David Jakubovic:
Yeah. Very fun. They were made for a client. They're both about like what is reality at its most fundamental level? She just has this beautiful way of using cartoons and sort of imagery that feels almost... I'm afraid to use this word, but like almost spiritual, but not. I don't know. Her stuff is very evocative and beautiful.

B.C. Wehman:
I think part of what I also appreciated was viewers, people who are watching it are going to see those names pop up. They're going to listen to the people on screen, talking about how cannabis has altered their life and the lack of pills they're taking and realize... I was like, "I know family members on all of them or is..." I think her name was Sierra Rodriguez talked about like the pill stacked upon stacked upon stacked of each other and then pills to offset the pill she's taking. Then, to realize I'm just taking CBD now and my life is better. That was, I think, a reality check, seeing those name brands and not the scientific names. That was really powerful.

Movie Clip:
It just started working really well for me. I stopped getting panic attacks. I felt more social because the anxiety was more calm. I felt happier, more uplifted, more positive. It also helped with my digestion. I didn't have any more stomach issues from the anxiety. I am completely off of pharmaceuticals now, and I only take CBD twice a day.

David Jakubovic:
Yeah. By the way, her story about being on 12 different different drugs is a recurring story that I heard from hundreds of people that I came across making this movie, right? All of the people in the film, Colin, the veteran with PTSD was also in the same exact boat, right? Just one drug after another.

Colin:
I am the founder of a group called Veterans Walk and Talk. We hike three times a week all around Southern California.

Movie Clip:
It's so beautiful.

Colin:
We get out in nature. Those barriers we have built up. We're like we don't want to talk about certain things. All of a sudden, those barriers start to break down. We start sharing really important things that we probably needed to share for a long time.

David Jakubovic:
All these veterans that he works with, same boat. I don't want to make any statement whatsoever. I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to make any statements about pharmaceutical drugs not being good for you because I don't feel the need to make that statement. All I want to show is that there are people for whom they have been problematic in the way that they've been taking them.

Heather Grayson:
Getting back to Colin and his story, that was a powerful message. We know so many people who are coming back with PTSD. We know so much more about PTSD than we used to. For a while, it was just soldiers coming back from war. Then, it was our first responders. Then, it was police. Then, it was us just going through a traumatic situation, and we revert back. But what was so clear to me was when he was talking about Wellbutrin, one of the pills he was on, not currently, but was, and how the side effect was actually suicidal thoughts yet he was taking it to be not depressed any longer.

Heather Grayson:
It was so easy for me to follow and understand. Everything was put together with pictures and graphics, so I could understand just regular old me who can't season science, to tell you that much. I could understand and follow along with the whole thing, and I felt for him. I felt for all of them, but his story in particular in how he's doing things to help veterans and for free just on his own time. It was just so wonderful because they have nowhere else to turn. That's so sad in our healthcare system.

David Jakubovic:
Not only on his own time, his entire life, he's devoted to this. It's become his mission, and he's such a beautiful soul. He talks often about how much he loves living because he really earned that, because he hated living and everything was hideous. Growing up in Israel, something that strikes me about veterans in America that I find strange is that in Israel, because everyone go or most people go in to the military, everyone gets what the military is. You come out and most people you meet have had that experience, right?

David Jakubovic:
Clearly, not everyone has had the PTSD experience, but everyone understands what that means broadly. Here, it feels like veterans are very dissociated from the rest of society at least New York and LA, which are the cities that I have lived in. I think there's this sense that Colin talks about a lot, the feeling like no one around understands you, so no one understands your pain and your history. He's devoted his life to helping these people. I just found it so beautiful that I had to film with them.

Movie Clip:
Remember how he said that CBD and THC are both compounds in the cannabis plant that are called cannabinoids? Well, this is the most fascinating thing that I've learned making this documentary. Our human bodies appear to be built to require cannabis. I know that's a really over the top sounding statement. I'll explain it in a little bit more detail. Our bodies are full of tiny receptors that are activated by cannabinoids. What does activated mean? Well, it means that when cannabinoids come in contact with these receptors in our body, the receptors get to work on an incredibly important job regulating many of the body's systems and maintaining or restoring something called homeostasis, which is just a fancy word for the body's natural balance.

Movie Clip:
Basically, this system of receptors plays a huge part in keeping the body working properly. These receptors are everywhere in the body. Most of them are in the brain and in the nervous system, but they're everywhere. In the immune system, many of our organs, the blood, the skin, everywhere.

Movie Clip:
This is the reason that cannabis is effective for so many seemingly unrelated diseases.

Movie Clip:
Okay. Now, we're going to tell you all of that in a little more detail.

B.C. Wehman:
The endocannabinoid system is an interesting part. We know that it was discovered a long time ago. It's something that's not well-known that our bodies have this kind of inherent desire to connect with cannabis, kind of makes our own cannabinoids inside of us and looks for that to activate. Once again, lovely animations describing it, making it very easy for people like Heather and I, and everyone that watches it to understand. How exciting was that, I think to learn? Then, as you talked about into animals and every living creature almost having that, how exciting was that and how mind blown are people when they understand that or see that portion of the film,

David Jakubovic:
It was shocking to learn. It was beautiful to learn. It was humbling to learn and it was cool to learn.

Movie Clip:
Then, the craziest discovery was made. Our body makes its own cannabinoids.

B.C. Wehman:
One of my favorite parts of learning the story was going back in the focusing on the breeders of the plant. Focusing on how in the 60s and 70s, we're really the growers. Right? We're working under the radar. We're completely illegal to a point the growers are growing this THC heavy cannabis, trying to get people high, get people stoned and breeding out the CBD, and then over the course of time, and it seems a spot now where CBD is available everywhere you go, literally everywhere I go, I can buy some version of CBD.

B.C. Wehman:
To see the story being bred back in, the DeAngelo's having a big part of that. They're a large part of legalization of cannabis. Proposition 215 in California, they're a big part of that. They're a big mainstay. It was exciting to hear that story, not only how they worked with Jayden and Jason to help him out and introduce CBD into it, but just the breeding part and the growing part. That was a really interesting aspect to bring in that I didn't expect in something that I thought would focus more on the science and data. We get into the actual growing of it.

David Jakubovic:
Often, people who have stigmatized this plant and think of it through the lens of stigma, talk about it as being a gateway. That's the word that they use, right? A gateway into harder drugs. I wanted to take the word gateway and use it in the opposite way and use CBDs story as a gateway into learning about medical cannabis, because CBD is not scary. If you explain immediately that CBD is not something that gets you high, it immediately is less scary than weed, marijuana. These words that sound creepy. The story of CBD as such involves that whole thing you described about it being bred out of cannabis just naturally by trying to get people stoned and it coming back because people wanted to have it medically effective cannabis. That's why that that... It also happened to be one of the very first things I learned, so it just became a natural part of the story for me.

B.C. Wehman:
David, as this film goes out, it'll be released on Amazon Prime by the time this podcast airs. People are going to watch this and they're going to have their opinions. What do you hope, David? What do you hope they take away when watching this?

David Jakubovic:
I want people to feel empowered because they have more knowledge than what they had before. I want you to come out of this movie ideally with a sense of, "Oh, I didn't know all of this information and is it useful in my life, in my medical journey, in someone else's medical journey who I care about?" I wanted to help shatter the stigma because the stigma is based on nothing. The stigma is based on political nonsense and it's just not really based on reality and real facts and science, right? Sure, you can take too much THC and get very stoned and sure, you can take too much THC regularly and have some anxiety problems. But if that's going to be the way that we view this enormous plant, that's silly. We can take too much aspirin and do damage to ourselves too. Right? I think water has a higher toxicity level than cannabis somehow too. I want people to just know about this, so that they can see if it's useful for them and if they can help themselves with problems they have.

Heather Grayson:
Just to go back a little bit to the people that are in this film, these emotional stories, we see that a lot of them are on opioid-based pill prior to taking CBD or cannabis. We see a lot of repercussions from them coming off of these pills. What your films showed is that what could be so bad about this very natural plant. I loved that a couple of them, instead of them saying medicine or pills or whatever, they were saying, "This plant, this is what this is." It might be in pill form at that point, in an oil or whatever, but it is derived from a plant in natural form that has grown here for obviously centuries, centuries, centuries, centuries. Have you talked to Jason, Jayden, Riley, Riley's mom, Colin? Do we have any kind of update on how all of them are doing?

David Jakubovic:
I know Riley's doing well. I'm regularly in touch with her and with Janie, she's doing excellently. Colin is doing beautifully. Jayden is non-verbal because he had so much damage to his system from years of seizures and all these medications. Jason has been very slowly still weaning him off of the last pharmaceutical drug he was on, the name of which I cannot remember right now. He have to wean it off really slowly over years. Jason is still confident that one day he's going to speak and say, "I love you, daddy," which is his dream for years. Yeah. I think we should all wish him the greatest luck in that.

B.C. Wehman:
You made an amazing film, David. We want to thank you for joining us. David Jakubovic, director of CBD Nation. It is available now on Amazon Prime video. Thank you for joining us. I hope your film gets out there. Whether people, whatever side of the argument they fall on, I like your word empowerment, education, knowledge because it can't hurt. Right? It can't hurt to learn more to maybe change your opinion. Sometimes people believe everything they're told. Hopefully, maybe they'll believe a little what you told them as well besides maybe what they already know. Thank you very much for joining us.

David Jakubovic:
Can I say one last thing? Like a summary, which is the conversation about this plant is often very, very big. Right? There's so many topics like it makes you high, criminals use it, all these stigma things that we've learned over the years that are not true necessarily. Really, what we should talk about, what the conversation's baseline should be is what does it do medically? What does it not do medically? Who does it help? Who does it not? What do we know, and what do we not yet know? That's it. That's the conversation, right? If you can answer those questions, you can have a real honest conversation about this subject that has been so fraught with lies for so many years.

B.C. Wehman:
Thank you for giving us real, honest talk about it. I think that's a fantastic way to end the interview. Real honesty. It's a good thing for us these days.

David Jakubovic:
Thank you everyone.

Male:
This is only here as a treatment 100% because of patients, because people wanted this.

Male:
We've all taken control of our own medical journey in a lot of ways.

Female:
We have an option now to get the facts now, to get informed and make a choice.

Male:
I think we are going to see an increasing number of people who start to take responsibility for their own health and become present in their own wellbeing.

Male:
The first step of taking your power back is to educate yourself.

Female:
Healthcare practitioners really need to educate themselves on the endocannabinoid system and on medical cannabis very quickly.

Female:
Physicians need to learn to trust the patient.

Male:
If a physician cannot help you, you have a right to [inaudible 00:33:32].

Heather Grayson:
Thanks for listening to this episode of Behind the Doc. If you liked us, because we all know you did, leave us a review in your Apple podcasts app.

B.C. Wehman:
Behind the Doc is produced by Evergreen Podcasts in association with Gravitas Ventures.

Heather Grayson:
Special thanks to executive producers, Nolan Gallagher and Michael DeAloia.

B.C. Wehman:
Produced by Sarah Willgrube.

Heather Grayson:
And audio engineer, Eric Koltnow.

B.C. Wehman:
And you'll find us everywhere and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.