Looking at Recruitment & Retention: Part 2 What is important to Employees? You might be suprised
Rob Matheis continues his discussion with Whitney Morris, this time focusing on what drives an employee to stay in their current position or move to a new one. Financial incentives are not always the most important factor, so what is taking their place? Whitney also discusses how to frame a conversation with a manager to improve your current position.
Our guest today, Whitney Morris, has worked exclusively in the scientific communications and Medical Affairs recruiting space. As Practice Lead for Medical Affairs at Medical Affairs Recruiting, she understands the field from both an employer and an employee perspective. Her practical advice and insights will help anyone involved in hiring, retaining talent, or searching for their next step in their journey. At Medical Affairs Recruiting, Whitney’s focus has been in the Medical and Scientific Communications space working on roles ranging from Director to VP.
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Rob Matheis (00:00):
In the continuation of our last episode, we're again talking with Whitney Morris, recruiting specialist at Medical Affairs Recruiting. Welcome, Whitney.
Whitney Morris (00:07):
Hello, good morning, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Rob Matheis (00:10):
It's great to have you back, Whitney. We had such a great conversation last time around, so I'm really excited to have you back to talk about our most freshest asset, and that's the people — the people that we work with.
Rob Matheis (00:19):
You know, today I was hoping we'd focus a bit more on what happens in a person's career journey when they decide it may be that time to look at other opportunities and to think about different roles they might take. We often talk about money as being one of those factors, but why don't we just start the conversation by finding out other things that go into that decision.
Whitney Morris (00:36):
Absolutely. Until COVID came along, financials were typically the driving force, titles, and financial compensation. And post-COVID a lot has changed. I would say flexibility is probably number one, if those two others are not the factor, and then very close to flexibility is going to come passion and value in a person's role.
Rob Matheis (01:07):
It's interesting you say those because they're not quite as easy to measure as compensation. So, I can look at my comp and I can know what I make and say I want to make more, what I think my value might be. But what are some things that a person's considering when they think about, let's just take flexibility right off the bat, what are they thinking about there?
Whitney Morris (01:25):
So, 9 times out of 10, when you hear flexibility, you're thinking relocation right now. So, can I stay where I am, and can I do my job? The majority of people are open to traveling as much as they need to. They just don't want to relocate. And it's not being necessitated these days because the majority of the companies are not making them relocate because they found ways to work remotely for a couple of years, and they're just utilizing those new those new means to then let people work remotely.
Whitney Morris (01:57):
So, that's the first one, but also, hour-wise. Long gone are the days you clock in at nine and clock out at five. But the interesting piece of that is you actually get much more effective employees, you get more work done, you get better work done when you allow them the freedom to work on hours that are workable for them.
Whitney Morris (02:20):
And I think that is specifically in scientific communications and medical affairs, people are often working across multiple time zones. So, again, allowing your people to — and the people that work for you or yourself, finding a position in which you can work when it works for you, and it works for your time zones. There's a lot more a lot more positive outcome there.
Rob Matheis (02:47):
Yeah. It's really changing the way people think about their roles and how they get work done, and even what they're compensated for. You see all these studies now about four-day work weeks and things of that nature that are current at the time of this recording.
Rob Matheis (02:57):
So, let me ask you a kind of a more pointed question: is the price point that it takes for a person to jump ship higher now given flexibility factors? Like if they have to relocate for a job, do they need to be compensated more now than perhaps in the past?
Whitney Morris (03:13):
Interesting point. I have not seen that change. And that's why I always tell companies (and I hate to say this) you're kind of getting the leftovers when you're making people relocate because the only people that I am aware of that are relocating are really either the people that aren't getting the remote jobs and/or they are people that are specifically seeking out that title or that position.
Whitney Morris (03:41):
So, if it's giving you the opportunity to move up or to move into a role that you really are passionate about, then oftentimes, if it necessitates a move, they'll move. But other than that, from a financial compensation standpoint, we really aren't seeing any difference there.
Rob Matheis (03:59):
Interesting. Whitney, you also mentioned another, what I'll call non-specific factor. You'd mentioned value, and that's another one that's a little bit difficult to measure, but can you talk more about what that means when a person's considering potentially moving positions or changing positions.
Whitney Morris (04:14):
Yes. I think this has so much more to do with the team and your manager than probably anything else. This is when a person really doesn't feel like their skillset is contributing to the overall good. They don't feel like, "Hey, I'm making a difference," or "I'm able to have an impact. "
Whitney Morris (04:34):
Because so often, people get into psycom and medical affairs you in general because you all have been in some sort of study, so whether that's PhD, MD, Pharm. D. — you have really been treating clinically a lot of times too. And so, the whole reason for leaving and coming into the industry was to be able to impact more people in a shorter amount of time.
Whitney Morris (04:59):
So, if you don't feel like you're doing that, you're really not feeling like the value of your skillset and everything that you've experienced is providing that. And your manager's the biggest person to be able to do that because they can give you stretch projects or they can give you different things to work on or work towards, or really acknowledge, "Hey, you're making a difference in this way."
Rob Matheis (05:22):
Yeah. And it's interesting advice. If I gave you a microphone and put you in front of a bunch of people, leaders, probably you're giving some advice along the lines of make sure that people see the bigger picture and understand how what they're doing day-to-day impacts things. So, you'd agree that that's a bigger factor than compensation right now? Or is it right up there?
Whitney Morris (05:39):
I am really seeing it right up there, especially with the people that have been healthcare providers in the past. They really want to make sure they're making a difference. Because let's be honest, nobody's making enough to just feed their children right now. You're making enough to live. And so, really, it's not looking at, "Can I just pay for my necessities?" It's looking for, "Hey, can I have a career where I have value and I'm able to provide financially?"
Rob Matheis (06:06):
Got it. So, let's say we're talking about a person, a candidate who they've made that decision, “I don't think I feel valued,” or “Maybe I could feel more valued” or “I'm not feeling good about my role,” do you recommend an instant get on the job market and jump ship, or what's your thoughts about a person who's starting to have those thoughts?
Whitney Morris (06:26):
I've given a lot of thought to different aspects of finding a new job or just the job search in general, and you can liken it a lot to a relationship.
Whitney Morris (06:37):
So, let's think about the fact that you have been at your current company for about three years. If you've been dating for someone for three years, and they don't take you to your favorite restaurants every Friday, you're not just going to jump ship and say, "Alright, we're done after three years, I'm going to find somebody new that'll take me to my favorite restaurant every Friday."
Whitney Morris (06:54):
You're going to give the person the opportunity to go to them, say, "Hey, I'm not feeling satisfied. I'd like to go to this restaurant every Friday. Can we give it a shot?"
Whitney Morris (07:04):
And so, I liken that a lot to your current employment. I think you owe them. If somebody took a chance on you to bring you into the company, maybe that was your past manager, previous manager, or current, but somebody took the chance on you, and you owe it to them and owe it to yourself to approach them first.
Whitney Morris (07:25):
Because if you're just going to jump ship, you're going to get an offer somewhere, and you're going to have to resign with that current employer. And what's going to happen is they are going to tell you exactly what they would tell you right now, if you would give them the opportunity.
Whitney Morris (07:41):
But by going retroactively, you're going to burn bridges. You're going to have to make a really hard decision, and you will have wasted a lot of your time and a lot of other people's time. So, I always recommend before you jump ship, you talk to that person who you report to.
Rob Matheis (08:00):
Interesting. So, first off, a note to our listeners, not only do you get interesting information about medical communications, but also dating advice through the InformED Podcast. So, we appreciate that, Whitney.
Rob Matheis (08:09):
But all kidding aside, are you saying what I think I hear you saying, which is if you're about to jump ship, you go talk to your manager first? I mean, the old way of thinking would tell you that that's just putting yourself in a really bad position with your manager. And so, is that something that you're recommending pretty directly?
Whitney Morris (08:26):
Absolutely. And it's all in the delivery. So, let's talk through the best way to do that. So, first of all, I would a hundred percent recommend really looking inside yourself? Why are you wanting to jump ship? Is it that manager? Maybe it is. If it is that manager, it's probably not going to help to go talk to that manager.
Whitney Morris (08:44):
Is it you are feeling like financially you're underpaid? Is it that you would like a higher title? Is it that you would like a bigger scope of work? Those are all controllables within your manager's scope.
Whitney Morris (08:56):
So, plan on having a conversation with them. However, the interesting piece to this is once you've really decided, "Hey, why am I looking to jump ship? And is this something that I can rectify with my current employer?" Really, that's when you need to start doing your homework.
Whitney Morris (09:15):
And that's when you start doing your prep work. Any big decision, I do not recommend on a Wednesday, you think, "Oh my gosh, you know what? The bills are tight, I'm not getting paid enough. I'm going to call my manager on Thursday and ask for some more money.
Whitney Morris (09:28):
This is a really important piece of the puzzle, I would say even more so than the conversation, is the prep work. So, the first thing you're going to want to do is you are going to want to get your CV up to date. And that sounds like, "Wait, if I'm going to leave, I'm going to get my CV up to date?" But no, it's actually going to work for both avenues, whatever the avenue is that you end up taking. So, you're going to update that CV.
Whitney Morris (09:56):
From an internal perspective, that's going to let you look at, "Hey, what value am I actually offering the company? What have I done since I've been here? What are my achievements and/or where are some soft spots or some areas in which I may need to expand before I actually have this conversation?
Whitney Morris (10:12):
Now, the flip side is that the conversation with the manager does not prove to be productive. You've got an updated resume and you're ready to go out into the market. So, there's really no downside. That would be my first piece of advice to do that.
Whitney Morris (10:26):
The second thing you're going to want to do is benchmark yourself. So, the talk of compensation, there was just a study done by the National Society of HR Management, and 80% of people are actually ... what's the word? They actually admit that they are uncomfortable going to their manager around compensation or job title change or things like that.
Whitney Morris (10:51):
So, first of all, it's not personal. Second of all, it's professional and it's just business. You're not going to your manager saying, "Hey, Danny, I really would like for you to give me more compensation financially, and I want you to take it out of your pocket and not send little Susie to camp this summer." You're not asking your boss for a piece of their pie, you're asking for a budget that they have set up internally within the company.
Whitney Morris (11:18):
So, a big piece of that is benchmarking yourself. And you can do that a couple of different ways. So, you'll do it internally. First of all, if you happen to know what others in your area of work are doing within your company, that would be one place to do that. The other place to do that, which I think is a lot more professional, I just always advise not to not to talk to colleagues about what they're making, but sometimes people do that.
Whitney Morris (11:51):
And then the second thing would be externally. So, do some homework. Ask others in your field where they are compensation-wise, and nobody has to give you a specific number. A range is just fine. Call a recruiter.
Whitney Morris (12:05):
Feel free to call me. I'm happy to tell you what others in your area are making on an average. And so, I would say getting that CV ready and benchmarking yourself so that you have some data going into the conversation, are really the two biggest pieces to prepare yourself for that.
Rob Matheis (12:24):
Yeah, it makes good sense. And they seem to go hand in hand. So, you're getting yourself prepared to understand your value and putting it on paper, and then tying that into, okay, so I have this level of value. Do I feel like I'm being compensated appropriately and benchmark-wise for what I'm bringing to the table?
Rob Matheis (12:37):
Do those other factors, Whitney, come into play too? Like the things we talked about earlier in our conversation around flexibility? I guess if I was trying to make an assumption, I would hear you saying, let's be real specific about what you're asking your manager for.
Whitney Morris (12:50):
Yes. And so, I always recommend, yes, going into the conversation knowing exactly what your goal is. So, the question in your head is what is my end game? Start there and then go backwards from there. So, your questions should lead into that.
Whitney Morris (13:05):
So, something like, for example, if it is a promotion, let's say you're trying to go in and get a title promotion — talk to your manager about "How can this be a win-win for both of us? I've been here for two years now, what would it take for me to move up to that next level? How can we make this ..."
Whitney Morris (13:28):
You also want to make sure you're always thinking about … obviously, selfishly you're thinking about what you can get out of it, but we also want to make sure your manager's getting something out of it.
Whitney Morris (13:36):
So, from a financial perspective, if we're talking about that, your boss, at the end of the day, if you walk away with more money, you're happy and feeling valued, your boss is walking away with someone who is more motivated, more committed to the company as a whole, and everyone wins.
Whitney Morris (13:50):
So, flexibility one we talked about, that's a different conversation to go in with, "Hey, let me show you what I've done for the team, how I'm contributing to the team, how I'm contributing to the company overall, and this is how I've been working, and here's what I propose to work. Can we set it up as a trial? If you're nervous about it, let's give it six weeks, six months, whatever you're comfortable with. Is there any reason you would not be open to me working more flexibly this way?"
Whitney Morris (14:22):
A lot of times you just have to ask because managers are busy. And a lot of times, whether it's from the perspective of your accomplishments or what you're doing for the team, quiet work is not always better work, unfortunately.
Whitney Morris (14:35):
It's kind of like having kids, and you pay attention to the kids that are setting things on fire. You're not paying attention to the kids that are making their beds every morning unless they're telling you they're making their beds every morning. So, I think really being specific with what you're asking for is very important.
Rob Matheis (14:54):
Absolutely. Good advice. And it sounds like yes, being specific, knowing what you want and asking questions seem to be a best practice that I hear you saying.
Rob Matheis (15:05):
We have a couple more minutes. I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you maybe a real nuts and bolts question that hopefully, you can answer, which is, okay, so I'm thinking about having this conversation and I'm wondering like how do I initially approach that meeting? Do I tell my manager upfront, I want to have a conversation about my comp, I want to have a conversation about my development — like what's the meeting title?
Rob Matheis (15:23):
Like give us a little bit of the nuts and bolts as to how to go about that uncomfortable piece.
Whitney Morris (15:27):
So, like I said, it's not you that's uncomfortable. So, A, know that going into it, this is very normal to feel weird about this. B, go into the mindset that this is a business talk. It's not a personal talk. You're not attacking your manager by any means at all. And that's where that preparation comes into play so much.
Whitney Morris (15:49):
Because if you have a CV of your accomplishments, you have a benchmarking for what you're looking for, whether that's flexibility and how others are working in your area or their financials, what they're doing in that area, whether there's title and scope of work in that area. You've got all that.
Whitney Morris (16:05):
So, you have the tangibles, so that takes the personal out of it. It's almost like you're presenting a scientific evidence to them as to why you're trying to get to this point.
Whitney Morris (16:15):
So, the best way to handle that is to get on their calendar, catch up call with Whitney and Rob, meeting with Whitney and Rob, and yes, that is going to make them wonder. But the interesting piece of this is so many people do it backwards that when they realize you're not setting up that meeting to resign, they are going to be elated.
Whitney Morris (16:38):
They're going to be so happy that, "Oh my gosh, he's just calling me to ask if he can work more flexibly." And usually, if it's within their powers, they're more than happy to work with you to be able to facilitate that positive environment for you. They want you to be in a good working manner. I mean, I don't think there's a manager out there that has a person on their team that they don't want that for.
Whitney Morris (17:06):
So, it really is just getting the gusto up to do it, knowing that you've got the evidence, it's not personal, and you just want to have that conversation with them.
Whitney Morris (17:15):
And so, opening that up, I think softly asking them how they're doing, and then just saying in light of, especially right now — we could say "In light of the fact that I just got my bonus, I was a five on everything that you asked me about, I really wanted to talk about where I am from a flexibility standpoint, or where I am from a financial standpoint, because I've talked to some others in my area, and I just wanted to come to you and talk to you about that."
Whitney Morris (17:43):
Because that doesn't at all imply that you're looking outside, it just implies that, "Hey, I want to have a conversation with you.
Rob Matheis (17:50):
Whitney, this is great. I mean, what I hear you saying, and I think it bears repeating, is you're almost doing your manager a favor. At the end of the day, it's going to cost your manager more to offboard you, recruit, bring somebody on, hire, train, and so on. The time, effort, and money that goes into that is just unbelievable.
Rob Matheis (18:07):
So, you coming in and saying that you're thinking about your own career is probably a relief to that manager in many cases. So, great, great perspective on that.
Rob Matheis (18:15):
So, Whitney, I think we've had a great conversation. You've given our listening audience a lot of good, very specific advice, I really appreciate it. I want to thank you for your time. We hope to get you back on a future episode, and thanks again for joining us today.
Whitney Morris (18:29):
Absolutely. Thank you.
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