Bonus episode: Addin' to your TBR (etc.)!

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

You are listening to Passions and Prologues, a literary podcast where usually each week I interview an author about a thing they love and how it inspires their work. Saying usually, because this is another one of my bonus episodes where we're going to do a whole bunch of book recommendations.

And I don't have an author on, but I have someone even better than an author. It is my buddy Tina from the very, very popular TBR, etc, Instagram. And extremely fantastic Book Talk, etc, Podcast.

Tina and I have known each other online for ever and ever and ever. And now we get to be book podcast buddies. First off, Tina, thank you so much for joining me today.

Tina TBR:

Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I'm so excited. It's fun to be a guest on a podcast.

Adam Sockel:

It's a different cadence for sure. It's a whole different process and everything is new. So, before we get into what we're going to do, which is going to be book recommendations back and forth for a little while, we're just going to give you six book recommendations. And I want to qualify for everyone.

We are doing Backlist book recommendations because Tina's podcast is one where they, and quite literally their most recent episode talks about this, they get distracted by new releases and they talk about new releases a lot.

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

So, in an effort to make sure that Tina didn't have to do something that was repetitive and cut out her own podcasting, I asked her to do Backlist stuff. So, that is what we're going to do.

But before that, do you want to tell everyone a little bit about your podcast, in case they're unfamiliar? And then yeah, we'll dive into some fun stuff.

Tina TBR:

Yeah, of course. Thank you. So, I am the co-host of the Book Talk, etc Podcast. I co-host with Renee at Its Book Talk. And she and I both met on Bookstagram, that was kind of our origin story.

And I've been talking books online for about seven years now, which is such a long time when you think about it. But it's been so fun, and I was really looking toward my Backlist, trying to find ones that I haven't talked about recently. And I'm like, “Wow, there is a lot of books that I've shared about online.”

But our podcast is every week, it's a book recommendation podcast and we call it a conversational podcast because it's just Renee and I talking about what we've read recently and we'll have a topic and I love our listeners, we have a very engaged listenership and our Patreon is very important to us too.

So, it's been a really fun endeavor. We've been doing it for about, coming up on a year and a half now. So, we're actually at about 89 episodes and I'm like, “Oh man, we got to think of something fun for our 100th episode. But yeah, that's Book Talk, etc.

Adam Sockel:

And I'm not just saying this because Tina's my friend, but it quickly became my favorite podcast to listen to for book recommendations as-

Tina TBR:

Oh, my gosh.

Adam Sockel:

People who know, I used to be in the literary world where I would get to kind of what Tina was doing. And a little bit now I get sent books ahead of time. But I used to get basically like a full rundown of like, from every publisher, every publicist, here's the books coming out for like the next six months.

And so, I got to be the person who was in the know, here's what you have to read.

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

And I both don't get to or have to do that anymore, depending on how you want to look at it. So, I literally listen every single week to Tina and Renee, and I cannot tell you the amount of books I have added to my TBR list because of you two. So, yeah.

Tina TBR:

Yeah, what a compliment. And I know y'all are fans of Adam, so he was our guest on episode 28, so be sure to tune into that. He was our very first guest ever. We don't do a lot of guests, but when we do, they’re high quality.

Adam Sockel:

Wow. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I had a blast. I think that, if I remember, at least at the time, it was one of your longer episodes because as people who know me, I'm a very chatty person.

Tina TBR:

Well, same with me and Renee. We just get excited. I'm like, “Oh, we'll keep it to an hour.” And it's like, cut to an hour, 15. Whoops. But all good fun.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. So, we're going to dive into some book recommendations in just a minute, but first I wanted to talk a little bit about whatever book we are currently reading or have recently read. Mine is, to give Tina a little bit of a lead in to get to talk about some more stuff about her podcast.

So, I'll go first really quickly. I just finished a book called Maame and I talked about it on my Instagram. So, I'm not going to talk too much about the plot here also because I don't want to undercut your guys' book discussion.

But basically, it is the story of a 25-year-old Ghanaian woman who is living in England with her father, who is very, very sick. She's taking care of him because her mother is in Ghana. This is like the shortest version of this possible. Her mother comes back, is living with her father.

So, at 25 she finally decides to move out and sort of start living her life really for the first time. She goes on dates for the first time, and she starts to smoke for the first time and go out and she drinks and she meets these new roommates. And a tragic thing happens that sort of throws her life into a sonder and she has to deal with all of these very, very adult things as a person who's still learning how to be an adult.

One of my favorite things about the book is she's constantly googling questions, very simple things like, “How do you puff your hair on a first date?”

But there's a lot of subtle things that aren't the main aspects of the plot, but she works in publishing and she deals with racism, which is something that's very, very prevalent unfortunately in publishing still and all these microaggressions and different things.

And it's a really, really wonderful book. The ending, I finished it last week and I've still been thinking about it. Definitely made me cry.

So, I've been reading Maame and the reason I will let you explain why I wanted to talk about that one first, and then you can get into your current read.

Tina TBR:

Of course. So yes, that's our community read for February. I had to stop and think. I'm like, “What month are we in?” But that is our community read. So, a part of our Patreon benefit is every month Renee and I, one of us chooses a book that we're all going to read together and then at the end of the month we go live on our Discord and discuss it.

So, it's kind of like book club, but it's fun because we chat throughout the month, like about our thoughts. And that book is so special because it takes you on a lot of different twists and turns. You described it so well and you pulled out some of the things that I really loved about it, like the googling and I'm thinking how brilliant, because I do the same thing.

I always joke, I'm an only child, so I don't know a lot and I'm always like googling things to figure out what's normal and the character is so charming, and I just love the ending. You're right. The ending made me cry and I was like, “I loved it from the beginning, but then, it was five-star territory by the end.”

So, I love when books get that kind of arc and she's getting a lot of praise too. This is her debut. It's a Read with Jenna pick. It was picked up for book of the month, so I'm really happy people are getting their eyes on it.

Adam Sockel:

I will say really quick, that was a bad job podcasting by me, it's by Jessica George, as the author and for everyone listening, I just realized I was like, “I didn't say the author's name.”

And I will say for everyone listening and every book we recommend today will be in the show notes. So, don't worry about fiercely writing them down. So anyway, now what are you reading, Tina?

Tina TBR:

Yes. Now we'll go into mine. Oh, my goodness. Okay, mine is The Writing Retreat by Julia Bartz. This is another debut. This book could not be more in my wheelhouse. It is psychological thriller and it's kind of about writers behaving badly, which I love. And it's a bit of a locked room mystery.

So, this is about Alex, who basically has had the worst case of writer's block for about a year. And then she receives a once in a lifetime opportunity to attend an exclusive month-long writing retreat at the estate of feminist horror novelist, Roza Vallo.

And this person, Roza has been her hero. So, of course she takes the invitation, but when they get there there's like five other girls or five other women and she realizes, “Oh, things are getting dark.” This book is very gothic, very feminist.

It took a lot of twists and turns to the point where — I like to take notes where I'm writing all caps, I'm writing, “Oh, my God,” once I figured out what was going on, I'm like, “No she didn't.”

So, I loved it. I just finished it last night with like one eye open as I was reading in bed. It was so fun. But yeah, if you like psych thrillers, if you like feminist novels, I think there were … no offense, Adam, there was like two males in this story at all and they were like very much in the periphery. So, it was kind of fun to read a book that's very, very female focused.

But I thought this one nailed it. If you like thrillers, I do think you'll like this one. And this is another book of the month pick, it's The Writing Retreat by Julia Bartz.

Adam Sockel:

I love how you said no offense, as if I'm going to be like, “Oh, there aren't men in that book? How dare?”

Tina TBR:

How dare? Literally there was like two little mentions of male characters. The rest was very female and oh man, I want to talk about it. So, somebody needs to read it and message me about it because it was fun.

Adam Sockel:

Well, I can read it and I will share my thoughts with you even though there's no man in that-

Tina TBR:

I feel like you’d like it. I know.

Adam Sockel:

Listen, I will say, because I knew you were the person coming om, one of my recommendations is a thriller and I have a specific reason why, because you were coming in.

Tina TBR:

Yeah. So, alright. So, like I ahead said the format of this is super relaxed, Tina and I are just going to go back and forth and do six book recommendations each. So, I will give you the floor, as the guest. So, what is your first all right Backlist recommendation for everybody?

Tina TBR:

Alright. I will happily start and I tried to bring one from each of what I consider my favorite genres. So, I wanted to give you guys a little bit of a wide range. So, number one for me is How It Went Down by Kekla Magoon. This one came out in 2014 and it's YA.

Oh, man. I read this, but probably when it was released, and I still think about it periodically. It's about 16-year-old Tariq Johnson who dies from two gunshot wounds. And of course, his community is absolutely thrown into an uproar. And Tariq was black and the shooter Jack Franklin is white.

And what I think is so brilliant about this book is that it's told from the point of views of the members of the community, so you're hearing about this from all different sides, including the girl who found him, his sister who has special needs, his mom, grandma, friends, the shopkeeper.

Everybody has something to say, but you can really see how no two sides actually are the same. And you're trying to figure out what really went down.

There's so many layers in this story. And through their viewpoints, we come to find out who Tariq was. Was he a good student? Was he a gang member? Did he have a gun or was he holding chocolate? At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Because at the end of the day, he didn't deserve to die.

Now I really recommend this book because it's YA and the author introduces really, really important themes, but they're so accessible to younger readers. She chose to use language that I think is very accurate of how young people might speak.

And I know some readers are like, “Oh, I don't know about the language,” but I thought it lent authenticity to the story. This is very, very thought provoking and very sensitive. But she does such a good job.

And of course, you can't help but read this and not draw parallels to the things we're still seeing today. But I loved this book. I recommend it at every chance I get. This was How It Went Down by Kekla Magoon.

Adam Sockel:

I have actually not read that. And I love that you mentioned about-

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

How they wrote in a way that is relatable to young readers. I actually had this conversation, but we're recording this on Wednesday, February 8th. So, I had an episode come out today with Nick Brooks who wrote this book called Promise Boys, which is everywhere.

Tina TBR:

Oh, my goodness. I can't wait to read that. Yeah.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. And he talked about how, because I asked him, I was like — he's still relatively young, his book is set in DC and it's a kind of a murder mystery where these African Americans get wrongfully accused of murdering their principal. And I was like, “So, how do you relate to the kids that you're talking to?”

And he said the same thing that Jason Reynolds just told me, which is a name drop and I'm sorry. Basically he said he’s like, “When I go and I present to kids, I shut up and I listen and I'm like, “Okay, what are the things you're saying?”

And I think it makes more sense for a young adult book to be written like a young adult would speak.

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

And to have them relate to it as opposed to us who are getting further and further away from being young adults.

Tina TBR:

Right. And I think parents might see this book and think, “Oh, this language is too harsh for my kid,” but guess what? They're seeing it. They have access to the internet, they have TikTok, they're going to hear it, so why not have it presented in this beautiful story that they'll actually be potentially relating to, hopefully not, but-

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, yeah.

Tina TBR:

Really good story.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, okay. So, my first one is Your Heart Is a Muscle the Size of a Fist by Sunil Yapa. This came out in 2016 and it's a story that is based in Seattle during the World Trade Organization riots. This actually happened, they called it the Battle for Seattle, which alright, it's fun to say, but you still don't want to … this happened.

Basically, what happens is the main character's name is Victor and he is really depressed after the death of his mother. And he spent three years wandering around and he is trying to kind of reconnect with his family and his home when he comes back to Seattle and this World Trade Organization riot is happening basically. And Victor is young and biracial, and he's caught on one side of the barricade and his estranged father is the white chief of police of Seattle.

So, it's basically a day spent with the chaos of everything going on in the streets and him trying to find his way home and figure out a way to reconnect with his father. And it's very, very heart-wrenching and kind of heartbreaking.

But it reminds me of I'm Not Dying with You Tonight, which is another young adult book. This isn't young adult, but it kind of reminds me of that same vibe where there's people trying to survive more or less a race riot. It is fantastic.

I'm a big, big believer in books about family relationships and this one kind of takes that and puts it in an extreme environment, which I think really kind of heightens the emotions, not only of each individual character, but how they relate to one another as well. So, just totally dynamite, that's Your Heart is a Muscle the Size of a Fist by Sunil Yapa.

Tina TBR:

Immediate download. I joke on the podcast, sometimes Renee brings a book. I'm like, “Oh, immediately I'm opening my Libby app, I'm getting in this book.” That sounds incredible.

And also, we didn't plan our picks in advance. In fact, I didn't even see that there was an outline for this until we started recording, because I'm the worst. But I love that our books, it sound like they would kind of go well together.

Adam Sockel:

Absolutely, yeah. These two would definitely pair. And I will say, I put these in an order, not in a specific order, but that was the first one I was going to talk about.

Tina TBR:

Yeah.

Adam Sockel:

So, I just think we're like-minded people.

Tina TBR:

I agree. I agree. I'm going to take a little bit of a, I don't know, heartwarming, weird turn, which two words that I typically like to read about.

Adam Sockel:

That's not very Tina of you.

Tina TBR:

Heartwarming, weird. Yes. Oh, my gosh. When I was writing this script, I was like, I want to reread all of my picks. So, these are like very, very high quality. If I may, I think these are very high quality books.

Next for me is The Humans by Matt Haig. This one came out in 2013 and it's science fiction, but don't let that disturb you. It's very accessible science fiction. And I love Matt Haig as a writer. He's so open about his mental health and he's one of those authors that when you're reading him, it feels like he's peeked into our head and grabbed our thoughts and put them on the page. He's so good.

And the cover of The Humans says, “Body snatching has never been this heartwarming.” And I couldn't agree more. It sounds so bizarre.

But what you have is an alien. He gets sent to earth and inhabits the body of Dr. Andrew Martin because Dr. Martin is a mathematics professor who just solved a previously unsolvable math problem. And this is going to have catastrophic consequences if the information gets out.

So, the alien gets sent to Earth to take over Professor Martin's life and stop the solution from being made public. Sounds bizarre.

But what the charm in this story is you're basically seeing the world through this alien's eyes. And he has such funny observations about the way earthlings think, act, look, dress, eat.

My favorite relationship in this book is between the alien and the dog. So, if you're a dog lover, you'll definitely enjoy that part.

I love this book so much. I still think about it years later. It definitely made me cry. I remember listening to it. It was one of the very first audiobooks I listened to. So, if you are somebody that listens to audiobooks, I do think this is a good one. It's The Humans by Matt Haig. Have you read it?

Adam Sockel:

I have not. But in keeping with us being so similar. I literally went to the library yesterday and just randomly borrowed the Labrador Pact by Matt Haig, which I haven't read, obviously. It was just another book of his. And I was just laughing because I was just like, you know what-

Tina TBR:

Random.

Adam Sockel:

Very, very random. And I was like, “Well, I'm going to grab this.” And as soon as I saw your list, again, as you mentioned, we did not plan this because you didn't write yours in until just when we started to record.

Tina TBR:

I just shared it as we're recording. Yeah, he’s great.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. He is really, really great. Okay, so my next one, this is one that I specifically picked because of you, you told me to read a book last year that like … now I'm drawing a complete blank, but it's a mystery one where a dad goes and searches for the killers of his son. It was very brutal. It was one of your favorite books of the year.

Tina TBR:

That sounds like me.

Adam Sockel:

I know. I will find-

Tina TBR:

Oh, Razorblade Tears?

Adam Sockel:

Razorblade Tears. Thank you. Yes, so-

Tina TBR:

Oh, my goodness, S. A. Cosby. 10 out of 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam Sockel:

So, this book is called Revolver by Duane Swierczynski. It also came out in 2016 which is random, but it is the story of three generations of one family that is torn apart by bullets that were fired a half a century in the past.

So, it tells three different timelines. One in Philadelphia in 2015, one in Philadelphia in 1995, and one in Philadelphia in 1965.

So, the first one is the 1965. There's these two street cops, one is black, one is white, and they are gunned down at a bar while they're like, basically on a routine, just kind of a visit.

And one of the fallen officers, his name is Stan, he leaves behind a 12-year-old son. And that 12-year-old son then grows up to become a homicide detective named Jim Walczak. And he learns that his father's alleged killer was sprung from prison.

So, he goes on this hunt to search down his father's alleged killer and tries to figure out like, why did you kill my father?

And then there's 2015 where Jim, the homicide detective's daughter Audrey, is a forensic science student, and basically reopens her grandfather's case to do a research paper and digs deeper and deeper and kind of realizes that this person probably didn't kill her grandfather and her father may have done something terrible.

And so, it weaves these three things back and forth, back and forth. And it's just like, it shows another book about families, but it's also this crime thriller. And it shows how one single act can obviously affect generations and generations of a family.

And I think about this stuff all the time about if my grandfather didn't do X, Y, or Z, he never would've met my grandmother and then I never would've been here.

Tina TBR:

Oh my gosh, I know.

Adam Sockel:

I blow my mind about that. I freak myself out all the time about stuff like that and this is the top procedural version of that. So, it's Revolver by Duane Swierczynski.

Tina TBR:

Okay. You're so good at recommending books. I downloaded this immediately. I'm really glad you're doing these podcast, because I've never heard of this book, how long have I been looking for books on the internet?

Adam Sockel:

Listen, I will tell you, I specifically grabbed this one and I was like, this is … we're recommending books for my entire audience, but this one was for Tina. This was specifically for you.

Tina TBR:

For me, specifically. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And you nailed it because you're right, that is in my wheelhouse.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah.

Tina TBR:

So, speaking of forensics, I'm going to take a turn and take you to non-fiction. This book is called Working Stiff: Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner by Judy Melinek and T.J. Mitchell.

This is a memoir about a young forensic pathologist, rookie season in New York City as the medical examiner and all of the curious and heartbreaking and impossibly complex cases that helped shaped her both as a physician and as a mother.

She began her training as New York City forensics pathologist just two months before the September 11th terrorist attacks. Talk about baptism by fire. Yeah, she gets literally thrown into the fascinating world of death investigation. She's performing autopsies, investigating death scenes and counseling grieving relatives. I never would've thought all of that would be involved.

Her stories would be interesting on their own, but of course being in New York City during that time just added an extra layer because she shares a firsthand account of the events of September 11th. And then if you remember, there was a subsequent Anthrax Bioterrorism Attack. There was another plane crash and oh my gosh, chilling stories. And to think that it's true is even more mind blowing.

Now, I like nonfiction, but I do need it to be interesting and well-written. And this was super propulsive. She actually has this dry sense of humor, which I really liked. So, she tells the stories of course with a lot of respect, but also there's a little bit of humor to it just at life, at just the craziness that we all go through.

And she also shares a little bit about the inaccuracies in shows like CSI and Law and Order. But she brings you in the real morgue. I thought this was fascinating. If you like science, if you're somebody that's really fascinated by this type of thing, I think you'll totally dig this book.

And she wrote it with her husband. And they also have a medical examiner, detective fiction series that I have my eye on. This was her first book, but they like then got into fiction, which sounds so interesting.

So, this book is Working Stiff: Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner by Judy Melenik and T.J. Mitchell.

Adam Sockel:

Have you ever read the Poisoner's Handbook?

Tina TBR:

No.

Adam Sockel:

Okay. So, this was not one of my recommendations originally, but The Poisoner's Handbook came out in 2011 and it's by Deborah Blum. And the subtitle is Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in the Jazz Age New York. It's also non-fiction. But it is written like fiction. Again, this might just be another Tina book, but everyone else should read this too.

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

So, Deborah Blum is the director of the Knight Science Journalism program at MIT. Just absolute flex of a genius.

Tina TBR:

Right.

Adam Sockel:

But this book, every single chapter goes through a different murder case that took place in the Jazz Age. First, that aspect is written like murder mystery, where it's this person was murdered and they used rat poison, they basically talk about all these different poisons that were used and how during the Jazz Age, they were untraceable.

If a wife wanted to murder her husband or if a mob boss wanted to murder another mob boss, the ways that they would do were just untraceable because they couldn't do this.

So, it literally goes through the birth of forensic medicine through each of these different poisons and how they discovered that they could detect them in the blood. It's crazy. Yeah. The Poisoner's Handbook is such a fantastic book.

Tina TBR:

I need to get this immediately. When you started describing it, it sounded like fantasy almost or like a fiction book.

Adam Sockel:

I know. But it’s not-

Tina TBR:

I did not think you were going to say that it was real. Oh, my gosh. Alright, perfect. Thank you.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. So okay, so that’s The Poisoner's Handbook. That is not the next book I was going to recommend.

The next book I was going to recommend is called Quiet Until the Thaw by Alexandra Fuller. This one came out in 2018 and it's the story of two Native American cousins Rick Overlooking Horse and You Choose Watson, and they end up being kind of on opposite sides of a dispute.

I'm just now realizing that every single book I think I recommend has to do with families being up against something. Or at least these first three.

Tina TBR:

That’s alright.

Adam Sockel:

There's this situation that happens within their tribe and they have to decide how they're going to resolve it. And so, Rick chooses to stay with the tribe and basically reestablish peace amongst all the people staying there.

His cousin chooses a violent, unpredictable path of his own and he just takes off. He spends three decades behind bars after doing something pretty horrible. And he comes back and he basically threatens the peace of the tribe.

And so, his cousin has to determine how he's going to handle it and what he is going to do. And so, it's this really complicated relationship, but also what I really, really love is it's set in the Sioux Nation in South Dakota.

And so, I love reading books from other cultures that are separate from mine that you learn a whole lot about how they live their lives. And it's really beautiful and it's really heartbreaking, but it is absolutely fantastic. So, that's Quiet Until the Thaw by Alexandra Fuller.

Tina TBR:

Now Adam and I are on Zoom together right now, and I can see him and he kept looking over his shoulder while he's talking about it. I'm like, “Is he looking at the book?” I was like, “No, I bet the dog came in.”

Adam Sockel:

Yep.

Tina TBR:

And then, sure enough, you have a visitor.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, my dog, he's not feeling good today.

Tina TBR:

What's his name? Holden?

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, that's Holden. Yeah. He can't decide if he wants to lay with me or if he wants to go be someplace else. So, he's moving on down the road for a little bit.

Tina TBR:

That's alright. He was so quiet when he came through, I was like, “Oh, hey. Alright. Bye.”

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tina TBR:

That does sound good too.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. So, what is your next book?

Tina TBR:

So, my next book is also family drama, specifically mother-son drama. It is The Nix by Nathan Hill. And I spoke about audiobooks earlier. Okay, if you're going to listen to one book via audio, let it be The Nix. The narrator is Ari Fliakos and he is a genius. He performs this novel. Did you listen to it when you read it?

Adam Sockel:

I read this one because I interviewed Nathan, years and years and years ago and they sent me an advanced reader copy.

Tina TBR:

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's so good. It came out in 2016, but the audiobook of this is fantastic. The story is fantastic as well. But anyway, I had to put a quick plug in for that narrator because he is so good.

But the book is about Samuel Andresen-Anderson. He's a writer whose career is kind of stalled. He is a adjunct professor at a community college or at a local college. And he's obsessed with this online video game.

He hasn't seen his mother's face since she walked out on him when he was a child. But then one day there she is all over the news because she threw rocks at a potential presidential candidate. And the media paints Faye as this militant radical with a sordid past, but Samuel's like, “My mom has never left her small town in Iowa. So, what are they talking about?” He becomes kind of obsessed with figuring out what happened naturally.

And at the behest of his publisher, he agrees to write his mother's story. It's going to be a tell-all biography and a book that will air all of her dirty laundry. But first he has to find her and talk to her without crying because he has not seen her in years.

The story is sweeping, I didn't say, the genre is literary fiction, kind of historical fiction, but it starts in the Midwest in the 60s, you go to New York, you go to Wall Street, there's the 1968 Chicago Democratic National Convention. And then finally you end up in Norway.

And through all of these places, Samuel unexpectedly finds that he didn't know his mom as well as he thought he did. And she is a woman with an epic story to tell and one that she kept hidden from everybody.

This was a debut, which is crazy to think about because it's so well done. It's very ambitious, but I thought it was completely readable and very entertaining and funny. I laughed several times while reading this, so I kind of went through the range of emotions. It's also got one of my all-time favorite covers. So, I just love this book. It was The Nix by Nathan Hill.

Adam Sockel:

It is such a good book. And I remember asking Nathan because it's such a … I'm always curious when I interview authors about like, if they talk about something that feels deeply personal, like the relationship in this book. I'm like, “So, how does your mom feel about?” And he goes, “No, this was not our relationship whatsoever.” So, I was like specifically-

Tina TBR:

I'm sure he gets asked that a lot because it felt so real. Oh, my goodness. He really nailed that kind of complicated push pull. So, I can see why it felt … you would think it might be autobiographical.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. So, my next one I had to do one horror novel. I'm a spooky book reader all year round. People who listen to my show know that, especially lately there's been a lot of spooky people coming on.

So, my next book is Ararat by Christopher Golden. And I like to describe this as like a horror novel version of Indiana Jones. It won the Bram Stoker award for Superior Achievement in a novel, which I didn't even know was an award. The superior achievement in a novel just sounds fancy.

It is the story of basically this adventure, these researchers are on top of a mountain, and they think that they find the actual ark from Noah from the Bible. And basically they're on the mountain. This earthquake happens and there's this secret cave that gets revealed on the top of Mount Ararat, which is a real place in Turkey.

And there's some historical aspects behind it where biblical scholars think that potentially if Noah's ark exists or existed, this is likely where you would find it.

This plays fast in … with history. So, don't like expect this to be a non-fiction. It is not, it is a horror novel where basically they think they discover Noah's Ark and then there is something very, very creepy that is like a part of — there's a monster that I don't want to talk too much about that reveals itself.

It's very much John Carpenter’s The Thing where it's like, there's something about being isolated but being isolated on top of a mountain where it's like this massive place but you are still isolated and not being able to escape this horrible chilling thing as it's kind of systematically running through the whole group and like just sort of terrorizing them. And it's very, very creepy.

But again, it definitely reminds me of the national treasure movies or like Indiana Jones where it's like very much that adventure archeological aspect, but with a horror twist. So, that is Ararat by Christopher Golden.

Tina TBR:

I love that. And I have never heard of it. I love horror too, but I find I don't read enough of it, so I feel like I need to flex my horror wings. What? I don’t know.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. I was just having a conversation yesterday with an author who will be on soon and we were talking about the fact that like, I don't love watching horror cause I hate jump scares-

Tina TBR:

Same.

Adam Sockel:

But I love reading for horror because I can control the atmosphere and the pacing and everything. And so, yeah, if I look back on my story graph, basically every other book I read I'm realizing is horror, more or less all year round. And I'm like, “Okay, this is getting ...”

Tina TBR:

Yeah.

Adam Sockel:

Ararat is-

Tina TBR:

I love it.

Adam Sockel:

Very good. Yeah.

Tina TBR:

You're in your horror era and there's nothing wrong with that.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, exactly. So, what’s your next one?

Tina TBR:

You know what's funny? My next one is horror a little bit. So, it's called Allegedly by Tiffany D. Jackson and I would call it horror. Boy, this book, it came out in 2017. It was her debut. I cannot believe, I was quickly looking it up as we're talking and reading age is 14 to 17 years. I do not agree at all.

So, I think it's technically YA, but like no, it's not, it's adult. Don't let your kids read this book. Once I tell you about it, you're going to be like, “Oh, I understand why you say that.” This is not for sensitive readers. Be sure to check trigger warnings on story graph. I thought it was brilliant.

It's about Mary B. Addison and she killed a baby, allegedly. Now she didn't say much in her first interview with the detectives and the media kind of filled in the blanks only where it mattered. A white baby had died while under the care of a church-going black woman and her nine-year-old daughter. And the public convicted Mary and the jury made it official.

But did she do it? She won't say. So, Mary survived six years in what she calls baby jail before being dumped into a group home. This group home is pretty brutal. It is a place where she does not feel safe. She fears for her life.

And she finally gets this job. They're allowing her to take on some work. And she meets Ted while she's there and she's at this nursing home and she and Ted start to have this relationship. He's the first person in a long time to see her as a person and things happen and it becomes more important than ever for her to find her voice and get out of the situation.

She has a really complicated relationship with her mother, but it looks like she's going to have to rely on her to set the record straight.

This book was so dark but so thought provoking. I really appreciate how it shed light on juvenile detention centers and these group homes and the side characters in this book are really great. I never quite knew what to believe. And I'm going to leave it at that because the fun in this book is the reveal and the understanding of what really happened.

I love Tiffany D. Jackson, and I highly recommend the other books of hers I've read, specifically The Weight of Blood and Grown. She is so amazing. And that was Allegedly by Tiffany D. Jackson.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. I agree with you in the sense it's like young adults should be able to read advanced stuff, but yeah, this one is dark. It is-

Tina TBR:

I’m like, “I'm going to keep this for adults.” Yeah, I agree. Normally I'm like, “Yeah, read whatever.” But I don't know, this is pretty dark as far as things go.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. Pretty brutal. Yeah. But it's incredible. And you're right, Tiffany D. Jackson is one of those just auto purchases, if I see that they have the new book coming out.

Tina TBR:

Yes, yes.

Adam Sockel:

It's like, yep, absolutely. Just put it in the cart. Just put it in the cart.

Tina TBR:

A hundred percent. Yeah. I love her.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. Alright, so my next one is called The Best We Could Do by Thi Bui, this came out in 2020 and there's so much about this book. I'm sorry. It actually came out in 2017. They reprinted it in 2020. Because I was looking, I was like, “That's not right. I've had this book for way longer than that.”

It is a graphic novel, but it's like a 400-page graphic novel, which I mention only because Thi Bui did all of the writing and all of the illustrations herself, she did the entirety of this book. It's incredible. It was a national book, Critics Circle finalist. It won a whole bunch of awards.

What it is, is Thi Bui’s family in the 1970s escaped South Vietnam in a very, very daring and harrowing way. And this tells the story of their family once they've kind of settled in California and at the heart of the story is like Thi didn't know much about her family's escape.

And what ends up happening is she becomes a mother for the first time. And she's wrestling with this really weird thing where she is now a parent, but she also feels very much like a child at the same time. And so, she's like wrestling with these emotions.

And she slowly tend to unveils the story of how her family escaped South Vietnam, while she's also talking about just the different struggles of being a parent. And then she wrestles with like, are my issues with not being able to put my baby down at all relatable to the things my parents went through.

And so, then she feels this guilt of like, should I be struggling with this? And trying to get to know her family while trying to be a mom.

And it's written very poetic and very hauntingly. But again, the thing that I always go back to with this book is the story is beautiful. It would be beautiful and heartbreaking if it was a novel, but just the sheer work that went into this, it's like a 400 page graphic novel.

And when you are reading it and looking at the imagery and you're like, “This human being did all of this,” it's described as an illustrated memoir.

Tina TBR:

Wow.

Adam Sockel:

And it's one of those moments where, as a person who is aspiring to be a published writer, I'm like, “I've written a book. So what? That's nothing.” This person created 400 pieces of art in addition to her story. It's so good. So, that's The Best We Could Do by Thi Bui.

Tina TBR:

Oh man, that sounds really good. And I don't read a lot of graphic novels for no real reason other than I just don't think of it. But yeah, on occasion I'm like, “Oh, I should get that.”

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. I'm the same. I don't read a ton of them, but this one, I remember when it came out, I think the publisher sent me a copy of it and I was like, “What is this?” And I flipped through it, and I was just sobbing onto the book as I was reading it, so-

Tina TBR:

Oh, my gosh. And I love motherhood stories too, so I'm like, “Oh yeah, this one sounds right up my alley.”

Finally, I'm going to wrap things up with my favorite book from one of my favorite authors. It's, I Found You by Lisa Jewell. And this one came out in 2016. It is a mystery. And the story opens up with single mom Alice Lake, and she finds a man on the beach outside of her house. She's in England. And this man has no name, no jacket, and no idea what he's doing there.

And against her better judgment, she invites him in to her home. And it then goes on to tell into an alternate point of view that of 21-year-old Lily who's only been married for three weeks, and her new husband has failed to come home from work one night. She doesn't know what happened to him. She's new to the country and she doesn't know anybody.

So, she goes to the police, and they tell her that her husband never existed. So, you've got these two women, there's about 20 years of secrets. And a man who cannot remember his story, he doesn't know who he is. And that's the jumping off point.

It's more of a slow burn. But I loved it. It's very complex and captivating, but funny too, I remember really liking Alice as a character because she's fully aware of like, “Why am I inviting this man into my home? Like, what am I doing?” But does it anyway.

And you just know that these two women's lives are going to collide, but you're not sure how. I love how Lisa Jewell tells a very thrilling story without relying on the outrageous or over the top. You're just going to get a well-crafted, clever mystery. I would really like to read this again for the first time. So, this is, I Found You, by Lisa Jewell.

Adam Sockel:

Lisa Jewell’s fantastic.

Tina TBR:

Yeah.

Adam Sockel:

She's such a master storyteller.

Tina TBR:

Have you interviewed her?

Adam Sockel:

Yes. A long, long time ago. And it was like when I was new to interviewing authors, so it was one of those where like, I think one of my questions was like, how do you do that? How do you make stories like this?

Tina TBR:

How do you make up stuff?

Adam Sockel:

How you do it pretend? How you do it? And she's like, “Hmm. Okay.”

Tina TBR:

Like great. Funny.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. “Thanks for interviewing me, Adam, please don't ask questions anymore.” So yeah, that sounds fantastic. That's another one, if I see a Lisa Jewell book, I'll just pick it up and be like, yep.

Tina TBR:

Oh, yeah.

Adam Sockel:

This is for me.

Tina TBR:

No, you're going to get a good story. I don't care what it's about, it's going to be good.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, okay. So, my last one is called He by John Connolly. This is a fictional reimagination of the life of Stan Laurel, who is one half of Laurel and Hardy, a very, very famous old Hollywood comedy duo.

A fun thing about me is I'm actually like 92-years-old in my soul and I love old Hollywood stories. There's a very good podcast called, You Must Remember This, that comes out … I think it's like twice a year.

Tina TBR:

Yes.

Adam Sockel:

And You Must Remember This did a story about Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi, these very famous horror actors who played like Dracula and Frankenstein in the early 1920s and 30s. And I just gobbled it up, like any story that has to do with this time, and I'm sure a lot of it comes with when I was younger and I would watch these things, but we don't need to get nostalgic.

Basically, He is the story of Stan Laurel, who's now old and he is kind of in a retirement home and he misses the life that he had. And it's the story of this person who he was kind of the butt of most of the jokes when it came to Laurel and Hardy. They were very physical comedy troupe and like he was the bigger guy and he had basically all of these things happened to him. He was very much a physical comedy person.

And so, he knew both adoration and humiliation in that adoration. It's the story of how the two of them basically came to be and all these different things.

But it's definitely fictionalized in the sense that it's written in a really interesting way where he never really says his name, which is why it just says He, but it's obvious who they're talking about.

And it just kind of recreates that Golden Age of Hollywood as they call it, and this very, very deeply intense study of the tension between the two of them and artistic integrity and all these different things.

And yeah, I'm just a big nerd when it comes to old Hollywood stuff and He, by John Connolly very much scratches that itch.

Tina TBR:

Oh, my gosh. You just unlocked memory. I listened to that specific podcast, not just, You Must Remember This, but that episode and I started listening to that podcast because they did a fantastic deep dive on Charles Manson's Hollywood and like the murders that took place.

So, I started to really get into the podcast after that and I remember just kind of letting it play and listening to it and I'm like, “Oh, my gosh, they can talk about anything and I'm going to be intrigued.” But I remember listening to that episode, but wow, what a good story.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. And as a weird small connection to it, the person who hosts it and does all the work on that, her name is Karina Longworth and she is the partner of Rian Johnson, who's the film maker who did Knives Out and Glass Onion and Star Wars and Looper and all this sort things. So, it made a lot of sense when I learned that I was like, “Oh, so they're both-

Tina TBR:

Well, I was just scrolling through, I'm not a Star Wars girl. And I was scrolling through. I'm like, “Oh, my God, there's like 16 episodes on Star Wars.” But that makes sense if that's her connection. Okay.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. But I'm with you. I'm also not-

Tina TBR:

That's a-

Adam Sockel:

Whole nother thing.

Tina TBR:

Star Wars girl.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. No, I'm also not a Star Wars girl. Exactly, yeah. So okay. So, that's a whole bunch of book recommendations. I hope everybody enjoyed this.

But before we go, Tina, tell everyone where they can find you and your podcast and all that good stuff.

Tina TBR:

Of course. So, I am at TBR, etc or TBR, etcetera on Instagram and on TikTok. And then my podcast is called Book Talk, etcetera. I co-host with Renee, and you can find us on Instagram at Book Talk, etcetera. And kind of go from the rabbit hole from there.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah. So, normally I tell people subscribe to the podcast of anyone who's on my show, but follow both them on Instagram. You both, in addition to being my favorite podcast, I get so many book recommendations just from your guys' Instagram and your TikTok.

Tina TBR:

Oh, my gosh-

Adam Sockel:

Is Renee on TikTok?

Tina TBR:

She's not on TikTok, no. Renee, that is where she's like, “I just can't.” I said, “Please don't. You have … she's so good at — talk about finding good book recommendations. I'm like, “Where in God's green earth did you come up with this?”

I just started having fun on TikTok and I'm like, “It's kind of addicting now.” And that's not a good thing. But when a video takes off, I'm like, “Why have so many people looked at it? It's like creeping me out a little bit.”

Adam Sockel:

I'll say you're very, very good at TikTok. I'm happy to admit that you're fantastic at it.

Tina TBR:

Gosh. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh, my goodness.

Adam Sockel:

This was so, so much fun, Tina. Thank you for joining me today.

Tina TBR:

Anytime.

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

Passions and Prologues is proud to be an Evergreen Podcast and was created by Adam Sockel. It was produced by Adam Sockel and Sean Rule-Hoffman. And if you are interested in this podcast and any other Evergreen Podcast, you can go to evergreenpodcasts.com to discover all the different stories we have to tell.