Home restoration infatuation with Mimi Herman

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

You are listening to Passions & Prologues, a literary podcast where each week, I'll interview an author about a thing they love and how it inspires their work. My name's Adam Sockel, I'm your host, and if this is your first time joining in, thanks so much for being here. If you've been here for a while now, thanks for coming back.

Today's episode is with Mimi Herman, author of The Kudzu Queen. And her discussion is all about home restoration. She bought a very old house when she had just enough money to purchase the house, but not enough money to have other people come in and do a lot of the work that she needed to have done.

So, Mimi did all of the things you can imagine in a house, and I don't just mean wallpaper and maybe finishing a wooden floor. She learned how to do electrical and plumbing and carpentry, and all of the things that when they go wrong in a house that I am living in, I immediately call someone else because I don't want to mess it up.

Mimi is just a little bit more brave than I am apparently. She tells me the story of how she purchased this house, basically site end scene, and then how she came to step-by-step, start to build back up this century home into what she truly, truly loves today.

Her book, The Kudzu Queen, it reminds me a lot of The Music Man, which if you've been listening in lately, you know that I'm a musical theater fan, much like many of our authors that have joined. But it tells the story of a 15-year-old Mattie Lee Watson, who dreams of men not boys.

And then in their North Carolina small community of Cooper County, in the early forties, this stranger comes into town spreading the gospel of kudzu, claiming that it's this plant that will improve the soil, feed cattle, and do a lot of miracle things for humans as well.

What ends up happening, again, if you're familiar with The Music Man, a similar story, kudzu is a very, very not helpful plant. If you look up kudzu on a Google image search, you'll see how it can quite literally swallow up community's whole. It is a bit of an aggressive plant.

And so, this story follows what happens to the community as well as the people themselves and specifically, Mattie, when this ne’er-do-well comes to town.

So, that is her book, The Kudzu Queen. And I will say if you are looking for another book that you would like to check out — the one I'm currently reading is called Lazaretto by Diane McKinney-Whetstone. I just started, but it's really, really fantastic.

It is the story of Philadelphia's black community during the Civil Rights era — not during the Civil Rights era, it's a little bit before then. But the place that it takes place on is this island where two rivers meet. There's this quarantine hospital and it's really the first stop for immigrants who wish to begin new lives in Philadelphia.

The Lazaretto’s black live-in staff have a very strong social community. When one of them receives permission to get married on the island, everything kind of changes into a mood of celebration. And drama starts happening almost instantly. It’s really mysterious, it’s really interesting, it’s really fascinating. I’m really, really enjoying it so far.

It is just in the aftermath of the Civil War, not the Civil Rights Movement. But literally the opening stages of the book itself take place right after Lincoln has been assassinated and builds out this really beautiful but tragic story. I'm so far really enjoying. So, that's Lazaretto by Diane McKinney-Whetstone.

If you'd like customized book or book recommendations from me, you can always send me any reviews that you've left on Apple or iHeartRadio, or wherever you listen to the podcast. Just screenshot that, send it my way at [email protected], and I'll give you some customized book recommendations.

Every month, I also give out a bookshop.org gift card to anyone who sends me their passions, things that they're passionate about to my email. I pick one of those at random every single month as well. And lastly, you can find me on Tik Tok and Instagram, Passions & Prologues there as well.

That is all the housekeeping, I cannot recommend highly enough that you go get a copy of The Kudzu Queen. It's a really, really phenomenal book. And this conversation with Mimi Herman is extremely delightful and insightful if you are looking to get into some home restoration business of your own.

That's everything, that's all the housekeeping. I hope you enjoy this discussion with Mimi Herman on Passions & Prologues.

[Music Playing]

Mimi, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. What is the thing you are super passionate about that we're going to discuss today?

Mimi Herman:

Hey Adam, thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited too. So, the thing that I am passionate about is my house. When I turned 30, I bought this house, and it's coming up on its hundredth birthday pretty soon. And it's like my extra skin, it's amazing.

And when I bought the house, I had no money, so I had to teach myself plumbing and carpentry and floor refinishing. In fact, I painted the entire interior of the house before I'd even closed on it.

Adam Sockel:

I am fascinated by anyone who's able to do these types of things. Over the past like five years, I'm on this life journey to become more self-sustainable and be able to do things. But when it comes to home-related things, if it’s like electrical or plumbing, I panic and I call someone.

So, when you purchased this house, you said you did the painting before you even closed, but how much did you know you were getting into from a — like fixing it up/restoring situation?

Mimi Herman:

Well, I had never seen the interior of the house in a full light. Should I tell you the story about how I came to buy the house?

Adam Sockel:

Absolutely, yes.

Mimi Herman:

So, I was turning 30 and I'm like, you know what, I want to own a house. I'm tired of renting, it's time. And so, I told a neighbor who is a good friend, and she said, “Well, it just happens that the woman two doors up from you is thinking about selling her house. She's not putting on the market, but she's thinking about selling it.” And her name was Nancy.

And so, Nancy invited me up to the front porch and we sat down on the front porch, and she said, “Well, honey, you want to buy the house?” And I said, “Well, Nancy, I might but I kind of like to see it. Is that alright? And she said, “Alright.”

And so, she brought me into the front room with, I kid you not, a-ten-watt bulb. So, I looked around the front room, and then she ushered me back onto the porch and she said, “Well, honey, you want to buy the house?” Oh my God.

So, over the next week or two, I saw a room at a time. The only way I got to see the whole house was that I followed the inspector around, and that way, I got to see the attic in the basement. But I really did not know what I was getting myself into. I just knew that I could barely afford the house, but I couldn't afford to pay somebody to work on it.

Adam Sockel:

So, you mentioned the inspector — I having bought and sold a few homes at this point, I vividly remember I purchased a house that was flipped and they did 92% of a good job. They did a very good job. But there was some things where they didn't properly insulate a pipe here and there or something would be put upside down.

But I remember still to this day, walking through, and it was like a mistake in my mind to walk through with the inspector because their job is to point out everything that needs fixing.

And so, when you walked through with the inspector, did you have like “Oh goodness” like moment where you were like “Oh boy! There's a lot to take on here.” Or did it make you excited?

Mimi Herman:

He didn't really tell me too much of what needed to be fixed, and the house was pretty sound. So, no, I didn't have that feeling. I will say that I got it refinanced years later and I had this room that I called the ruin Tuscany villa dining room.

Because I had come back from Tuscany and I'd been in a cooking class and I thought, I'm going to throw a dinner party for 10 people, and I'm going to cook everything I learned how to cook. And I love cooking, that's my other passion.

And so, I made all this food and, in the meantime, I thought, I'm just going to strip the walls and repaint them while I'm organizing the dinner party. But I got to like two days before and I realized, you know what, I can either cook for my friends or I can strip about another square foot of wall. So, I'm just going to leave it.

So, it was all cracked and wallpaper here and there and everywhere, and I grew to like it. And then I had to have the house reinspected to refinance the house. And I thought, “Oh no, he's going to make me fix this room.”

And so, I used my shameless flirting skills (yet another passion) and I just charmed the guy, and I was like, “Oh, well this room, this is my ruin Tuscany dining room.” I keep saying living room — dining room. And he ended up not asking me to do a thing.

Adam Sockel:

First off, that's amazing, I love that so much. And when you're going through the house, you mentioned painting it. And then I also love that you're like, “While I’m planning this dinner party, I’ll fix this one room.” That is definitely the multitasking of a writer, that is something a writer would say. Like, "Oh, I'll just do a few things over here, and then also refix this whole house, this whole room rather.”

What were the first major projects other than, like you said, painting the entire inside of it? What were the first major projects you took on? Because I imagine there were a lot of them with a century old house.?

Mimi Herman:

Definitely. Well, the floors were in bad shape, so they all had to be refinished. So, that meant renting the huge sander and wrestling it into submission. There were also toilets that needed to be replaced, so I taught myself how to replace toilets, how to put in sinks.

I designed and built cabinets for my kitchen, I invented this really cool thing, which is half-depth drawers for under the sink. So, you know how there's always sort of disgusting stuff under the sink? So, instead of opening it up and seeing disgustingness, you have drawers.

And one is exactly the height of foil, and one is the height of short bottles. Anyway, so I built the cabinets, built the countertop. That all feels like it happened all at once. I know it didn't, it happened over several years, but it feels like it happened all at once.

Adam Sockel:

So, it sounds like (and correct me if I'm wrong) while you were going through this process, you didn't just realize you were capable, but it sounds like you seemed to enjoy, because I don't think anyone just says I'm going to basically invent a new type of shelving. It seems like you enjoyed this process.

Mimi Herman:

I love it, because I am crazy about design. I do a lot of website design now and other kinds of design, and I just love thinking through what's the problem and how can I solve it in a way that's interesting, beautiful, and most important, useful.

And so, that was a lot of fun. And I had my Bible, which you won't be able to see on a podcast, but you can see the Reader's Digest Complete Do-it-yourself Manual, and then it's companion piece, the Fix-It-Yourself Manual.

Adam Sockel:

That is amazing. So, this has become like a new thing. So, my father is in his early seventies, and he's retired, but he is — my parents are — I always joke that I can't tell how old other people are because my parents are in the early seventies, but my dad runs half marathons, he still runs with our running group, and my mom walks 5 to 7 to sometimes 10 miles a day. They're so active.

And one of the things my dad has taken up in his past couple of years since retiring is, he'll look up stuff on YouTube, he'll be like, “Oh, our washer isn't working, so I just looked it up” and he is getting pretty good at this type of stuff.

The books you just showed me are massive. And honestly, that almost looked overwhelming to me. So, you're doing the flooring and then you're doing this shelf work, did at any point you think to yourself, “Oh actually maybe I want to take up carpentry as a side project type of a thing?”

Mimi Herman:

Oh yeah, definitely. I love doing carpentry. I like doing plumbing, but plumbing's practical, water flows downhill, that's pretty much how it works. But carpentry's beautiful and yes, I want to live all sorts of alternate lives and in one, I'm a full-time carpenter, and I went to a hippy-dippy Quaker school for high school.

We did everything, we didn't have to wear shoes. My graduating class was 20 people or 10, I can never remember. Anyway, so we learned everything, and I always wanted to be a renaissance person, which means I do a lot of things moderately well.

Adam Sockel:

We are simpatico because I'm the same way. I always said I never wanted to be defined as one thing when I was younger and stubborn and trying to figure out … as I told you before I started recording and people who have listened to the podcast for a while — I am a marketer in tech, but I also am queering my own novel.

And like you said, I’m the same way, like you, I’m a home chef. I am a runner, I never wanted to be that one thing. So, I definitely appreciate that.

And I also feel like life is too short to become like — and the no shade anyone who does this, but spending like 50,000 hours knitting or spending 50,000 hours painting, I don’t know. To me, I’m like I want to explore all of the things.

Mimi Herman:

It's just so fun and I keep discovering things, and I have really high standards for myself, so I want to be really, really good at everything that I do.

Adam Sockel:

So, because of that, when you're fixing up this house that, like you said, needs a lot of TLC, was it trial and error to do, like you said finishing the floors? Plumbing, like you said, it’s either that toilet works or doesn’t, so that’s one thing.

But finishing the floors, I imagine you could always make it look a little bit better or a little bit better or a little bit better. As you’re learning these things for the first time, did you find you were capable of seeing a job well done and accepting it as a job well done? Or were you like me and you’re like stubborn and being like, “I can make this a little bit better?”

Mimi Herman:

And even when it's done, it's always like, “Oh, I could have made it even better.” And the other thing too about carpentry in me is I'm fine at math. I'm not brilliant at it, but I'm fine at it. But that thing measure twice, cut once? I had to measure about 15 times and cut once because I can't keep dimensions in my head.

Adam Sockel:

So, this is actually why I don't think I'd be very good at carpentry because while I love cooking, I want to love baking, and I do bake, but because baking is also like science, I get very stubborn when I'll see a recipe be like, “Use exactly two and one fourth cups flour.” I'm like, come on, really?

And then sure enough, when I'm making the dough, and the dough is either too wet or too dry. And I'm like, “Oh, they were right.” And that's the low stakes version. I feel like if it was me doing carpentry, I'd be like, “Oh, this this two by four is six inches short. This feels like a problem.” That would be my issue, I think.

So, there was the floors, there was the plumbing, there was painting. Were there other things in the house that you discovered because like you said, you were learning this on your own?

Mimi Herman:

Well, as I've gotten further along, I've started doing more optional things. So, I recently tore down and replaced a porch.

Adam Sockel:

Well, so let's dive into that. Like is it a wooden porch? Is it like stone, I guess, walk me through it.

Mimi Herman:

It's wooden, it's a side porch off the side of the house, off my partner's study and I wanted him to have a place that he could sit and relax without worrying about falling through rotted wood.

So, I tore it down and replaced it and taught myself how to do a concrete footing, that sort of thing (should we do that part together?). And actually, as I've gotten a little more money, it's gotten to the point where if something doesn't look like a fun project and it looks like it's going to take more time than I have, then I'll hire somebody.

Adam Sockel:

It's sort of like that thing when you get … because you mentioned cooking one of my passions as well. It's like once you get to a certain level of quality of cooking, it's like you make that decision about going out to a restaurant. You're like, “Do I want to go someplace and think the whole time? Like I could have made this and not spend the money.” I imagine it's probably similar to that.

Mimi Herman:

Yeah, it really is. With cooking, I've gotten to the point where it has to be — somebody's got to be a really good chef for me to want to go to their restaurant. Or it's got to be kind of diner food, which I love.

Adam Sockel:

It's so funny you say that because that's exactly my thought is like, I either want something that I would not make myself ever. I'm a pescatarian, so I don't eat meat, but I eat fish sometimes. And so, like sushi, like I wouldn't make myself sushi, so I might go out and get it.

Or the other thing I want instead of something really elaborate, is I want a simple plate of pasta but done flawlessly. You know what I mean? Like the pasta done perfectly and things like that.

Do you find now that you have these skills, when you are out and about, say like touring with your book, which we're going to get to in just a little bit, or visiting other people, like you see carpentry or tile work or something done at a different location and you're like, “Oh, maybe I want to take on that.” Or are you able to kind of …

Mimi Herman:

Oh yeah, I'm constantly looking at that stuff. I have a whole shelf of books of great design. I'm like, “Oh, wouldn't it be cool if I did this? And those cabinets have been around for a while, maybe it's time to start looking at redesign and what are some good ideas that I could get from ones that I'm seeing?” It's tempting, that's why I need a whole life to do each thing.

Adam Sockel:

It sounds like this is a forever home for you, or are you going — do you think you will one day like sell this thing that you've put so much heart and soul into?

Mimi Herman:

It's hard, it feels like my forever home, but also, I lived in Ireland for a while and I'm thinking about going back. My next book's going to be based on Ireland.

And so, I'm thinking about going back and spending some time there. We're spending a lot of time in New Mexico, which we love. So, I don't know. I don't think I ever want to sell this house, but I might rent it out for stretches at a time.

Adam Sockel:

When you were in Ireland, was it for — because I know you are a teacher and you've done a lot … was that for a writing workshop or what sent you that way?

Mimi Herman:

It was right after college and I wanted to learn to be a more independent person, so I wanted to go where I didn't know anybody and I didn't have a place to live and I didn't have a job, and see if I could make it on my own. And I'd always loved traditional music and Catholic boys. I was 22, what can I say?

Adam Sockel:

We are very similar, not so much the Catholic boys thing. The traditional music, and I'm very much — especially this time of year, it's like Irish Jigs and I want to make soda bread and …

Mimi Herman:

Oh, me too.

Adam Sockel:

Exactly. So, how would you say, or does these aspects of your life where you're spending so much brain power and honestly like manual labor, upkeeping and fixing things around your house, does that have any effect on your writing process?

Mimi Herman:

Yeah, it does actually, in two completely different ways. One is it sort of clears my brain like a wave clears the beach. So, it's not about words, it's not about people, it's not about characters. It's just about figuring out how to make something work and using my hands.

And so, it's great because it gets the clutter out so that when I go back to writing, I've got something to do. But the other thing is as I said, I'm all about design, and design has to work. And I'm not very patient with the idea of writing just for myself.

For me, writing is a gift to the reader. And so, I want a book that … I want to write anything: a book, a poem, a story, I want it to be of use to the reader. And so, I'm always thinking about how something's perceived.

As a writing teacher, one of the things that we talk about in Writeaways, which are these writing workshops that we offer in France and Italy and New Mexico. And as a writing teacher, we say we're not the author's advocate, we're the reader's advocate. And so, I want a book you can live in. That's what I try to create, it's a book you could live in.

Adam Sockel:

Which makes sense that you have a house that you're building that you can live in as well. And so, getting to your book and thinking about it with your house, like your house is this historical, like you said, it's over a hundred-years-old that's rich with stories and history in itself. And your book is also somewhat based on historical events, correct?

Mimi Herman:

Yeah, so many years ago (more than I'd like to admit, because that will tell you how long I've been working on this book), I came across an article on microfiche, which pretty much tells you how long ago it was. Very long time ago.

Adam Sockel:

You just revealed yourself.

Mimi Herman:

I know, I can't believe I did that. So, this article was about these men who toured the south promoting kudzu. Do you know about kudzu?

Adam Sockel:

I am slightly familiar, but for the listeners, the book is called The Kudzu Queen. And in the intro, you’ve heard me talk about it. But talk a little bit about kudzu, and then the article and then we'll get into the book as well.

Mimi Herman:

So, kudzu was introduced at the World's Fair around the turn of the last century, not this past one. And it's beautiful, it's a very beautiful plant. It's from Japan and China, and there, it has natural enemies, so it's kept in check, but here it doesn't.

And so, it takes over everything and I don't want to give away too much of the story, but it was heavily promoted in the U.S. And so, anybody who grew up in the South knows kudzu because you can't drive down the highway without seeing it.

Like basically bringing down large trees, covering tractors, covering houses. I call it southern topiary. And so, to find out after growing up with this stuff, that there were people who promoted it, that had kudzu festivals and kudzu beauty pageants. Well, that's irresistible. I had to write about it.

Adam Sockel:

And for people who don't know what kudzu is, think of seeing a beautiful Irish countryside where the house has moss on the roof, but instead of it being moss, it's these leaves and it covers literally everything. It does not stop overtaking stuff.

It looks almost like if you would see a majestic snow-covered area, but instead of snow, it's just all green. It overwhelms basically everything that it does.

So, talk about the article that kind of birthed The Kudzu Queen about. You said it was about basically people promoting this wildly growing situation.

Mimi Herman:

So, there was a man named Channing Cope who wrote for the Atlanta Constitution and also had a radio show. And he talked about how great kudzu was, and he invented the Kudzu Club of America which had many, many members.

And it was amazing because the CCC paid young men to plant it along railway embankments. The Department of Agriculture paid farmers to plant it and produce pamphlets on the proper propagation of kudzu. And it just seemed so interesting.

They really thought it was going to save the south. And think about the time too, in the thirties, people were worried about the dust bowl and about erosion. So here, was a plant that they thought would prevent erosion, that they thought would — did everything.

It was a food, you could make paper out of it, you could make clothes out of it, you could feed your animals, you could feed your family (I'm sounding like the Kudzu King). And it fed nitrogen back in the soil like bean plants do. So, it would've been wonderful if it could have been kept in check.

Adam Sockel:

But as so many things are that we bring over to the United States, it cannot be kept in check.

Mimi Herman:

You would think we would've learned our lesson by now. And I recently found out that unfortunately, it doesn't make a very good biofuel, but it makes a great beer.

Adam Sockel:

Well, that's something at least I suppose. So, you see this article, like you said, it's something where it's too fascinating not to write about and then you decide to write the story.

So, tell our listeners a little bit about the plot of The Kudzu Queen and again, as much as you would like to get into it, but just in your own words, like kind of chat about the book a little bit.

Mimi Herman:

So, the narrator of this book is Mattie Lee Watson. She's a 15-year-old girl. She's a bit on the sassy side. And she falls madly in love with the Kudzu King who comes to town to talk about how fabulous kudzu is. And she really wants to impress him. He is literally twice her age.

But she's got a huge crush on him, and she wants him to notice her, and she also wants to be the Kudzu queen, but she's not really the beauty queen type. I mean, she doesn't think of herself as particularly pretty, she's not girly.

So, the story sort of follows that process. It also follows her best friend Lynette, and her oldest friend Rose through their own stories and what happens with them and it gets darker and darker as more emerges about the Kudzu King.

Adam Sockel:

I was just going to say, it reminds me a little bit of a dark naturalistic music man, I suppose, because there's sort of like a conman who comes into town and offers something that seems too good to be true.

And obviously, it is but there's a lot of darkness. Not to say that there isn't darkness in the Music Man, but that's what I thought of as I was reading it. I was like, “Oh man, this has like Music Man vibes,” which as a Broadway Nerd, I very much appreciate it.

Mimi Herman:

Totally. I mean, think Music Man meets To Kill a Mockingbird.

Adam Sockel:

That's perfect. Obviously, you would've a better description than me of the book that you spent so much time writing.

So, having spent so much time on it, how does it feel now that it's out in the world? Like you said, you're working on your next novel, how does it feel having/being a person where you said you write stories for the reader, do you feel at peace with the book being out in the world or does it feel strange?

Mimi Herman:

Adam, it is glorious. I'm so happy. So, what you have to know about this book, as I said, it's been a really long time writing it. And my first draft that I'm like, okay, I've got a draft, it's done, I'm happy. this is great, was 680 pages.

Adam Sockel:

Oh, that's a lot.

Mimi Herman:

A little long.

Adam Sockel:

A little bit.

Mimi Herman:

So, I have this thing that I call playing pickup sticks where it's like can I take out this word, this phrase, this character, this scene, this subplot. And will the rest of the book still stand? So, it's now 320 pages. I took a book out of that book.

Adam Sockel:

I was literally just going to say, you basically took like 130,000 words, it sounds like, out of that book more or less.

Mimi Herman:

But I'm thrilled, I don't miss it at all. I also have another thing that I call the pantry. When I take something out of something I've written, I put in another file. It's like, “They're there, you're okay. I'm not throwing you in the trash.” But I almost never come back to it.

I think I took one scene and put it back in the book. So, I went over this book so many times. Even after it was accepted, I went over it again and did a continuity and anachronism search and basically, did all sorts of things like finding out that lemon bars (which were in the book) weren't invented till the sixties or the word sharp for a sharp dresser didn't come around till 1945 and the book’s set in 1941, so I couldn't use that.

Or calling up the Bosco Chocolate Company to find out that Bosco was sold in 1941 in the South. So, I'm happy with the book. I feel like it's the book I wanted to make, and now, I'm starting to hear from people that are reading it and who are living in this book, who feel like they're living in it. And so, it's such an amazing feeling.

Adam Sockel:

And I have to imagine being a professor who teaches creative writing, that is one of the things where I have found having interviewed like hundreds of authors over the years, and again, now querying my own novel, I think when I first started this literary journey of interviewing people and wanting to be a writer myself, the idea that you could write 100, 150, 200,000 words and then chop 70,000 of them, to me that sounded so impossible.

But now, I have such a deeper understanding of it, and it's like you can't be so precious. And I have to imagine being someone who teaches those concepts to other people, it has to be pretty helpful when you are going through that process yourself and understanding this is what getting that first draft down so that you can query and like sell your novel.

That doesn't mean that's probably not going to look much like what ends up getting printed years later as it tends to be. I have to imagine that helps being a teacher to be able to understand those things.

Mimi Herman:

As a teacher and also an editor, I'm ruthless with my own stuff first of all, and I'm nice when I'm teaching and editing. But ultimately, I'm pretty ruthless about other people's stuff because I think of it also as tuning, like with a music background, like tuning a guitar. If something's just a little off, you can hear it in the book.

If the dialogue doesn't sound quite like what that character would say or what a person from that area would say, it doesn’t work. And so, it always has to work. There should be nothing as John Gardner says, nothing that wakes you from the fictional dream.

Adam Sockel:

I love that, that's beautiful. And I imagine it has to feel extremely exciting to be researching and writing a whole new story now. Because you mentioned Ireland, that's obviously quite a different situation entirely. That has to feel wonderful.

Mimi Herman:

Oh, it's really exciting and it's making me really want to go back and live there. It's very different from the Ireland I lived in when I was 22.

Adam Sockel:

When you were — this is from nothing, but just because I have a deep fascination with Ireland and Scotland and that whole area. Did you live in a big city or on the countryside area?

Mimi Herman:

I lived in Dublin because that's where people told me the work was. But I knew even before I went there that I was going to love Galway.

So, I lived in Dublin, worked in a restaurant bartending and waiting tables, worked in a pub, the classic 22-year-old kind of post-college thing to do.

And then I did a cycle tour by myself. I used to do a lot of cycle touring. So, I went 670 miles around the southern part of Ireland and then back to Dublin. And then I went back to Galway and spent a month there, and Galway's where my heart is.

Adam Sockel:

Because that's very — like when you see photos of the strikingly green and beautiful aspects, that tends to be in the Galway area. Is that correct?

Mimi Herman:

Well, all over really, but Galway's just beautiful and the people there are amazing, the music there was fantastic. And I will tell you, as someone who has cycled through Ireland, the reason that it's that green is that it rains a lot.

Adam Sockel:

That is something I have been told as I'm thinking through taking a trip over there. They're not kidding when they say dreary and rainy, there's a reason it's so lush and beautiful, is kind of cuts the price you pay.

Mimi Herman:

But it's kind of a soft rain a lot of the time, it’s nice. Even if you're biking for eight hours in a — you just learn to live with it.

Adam Sockel:

So, the last question I always ask people before we end the conversation, is just to give a recommendation of anything you want to be. It can be a book, it can be a TV show, it could be … someone's recommendation was go for a walk.

It could be just something that you want to recommend people do or read or listen to or whatever it is. Just something you want to recommend that you think deserves a little bit more attention.

Mimi Herman:

Well, I will go back to my favorite book, my favorite author, who writes in a way that is nothing like the way that I write, but I just think he's brilliant. And the few times I've met him, I've just thought he was a really good person. I would say read William Gibson.

Read Pattern Recognition, go back in time. He's the father of cyber fiction. And I'm a cyber fiction nut. But it's not just that it's about cyber fiction, it's that every single word in every single sentence is right.

I guess that's the relationship that he takes the same kind of care that I like to think I take in writing, of getting it exactly right. And it's just from sentence to sentence, it's amazing. The characters are amazing, the plots are amazing, and the understanding of the world is amazing.

Adam Sockel:

That is a perfect recommendation. And I will just add one more recommendation of if you aren't already going to purchase it, go get The Kudzu Queen. It is so wonderful. It's such a great story. You will absolutely lose yourself in it.

Mimi, thank you so much for joining me today.

Mimi Herman:

Adam, thank you. This has been a delight.

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

Passions & Prologues is proud to be an Evergreen podcast and was created by Adam Sockel, and was produced by Adam Sockel and Sean Rule-Hoffman. And if you are interested in this podcast and any other Evergreen podcast, you can go to evergreenpodcasts.com to discover all the different stories we have to tell.