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"The House in Between," A Film by Steve Gonsalves and Kendall Whelpton

Have you ever been inside a haunted house? Come, step inside Alice Jackson's home.

Alice built her dream house in a beautiful field filled with wildflowers, but from the beginning of construction, something seemed not quite right. Strange instances of doors closing, objects moving, and the chandelier dimming quickly became the norm for Alice. Day in and day out she knew that her house was different from other houses, but she was okay with that, until one night when everything changed. Alice awoke to an experience she would never forget, an experience so unsettling she vowed to never sleep in her home alone until she knew the cause of the occurrence. Fast forward 10 years and Alice has no answers, but she does have a team of paranormal investigators working vigorously to see what they can find. Welcome to The House in Between.

Cast of Characters:

Alice Jackson.........Home Owner

Steve Gonsalves....Professional Paranormal Investigator, Director

Kendall Whelpton...Co-Director, Cinematographer

Erin Brown.............Alice's Neighbor

Brad Cooney..........Paranormal Investigator

John Bullard..........Paranormal Investigator

Quilin Dai................Scientist

Mary Alice Hydrick.....Records Keeper

The House in Between is distributed by Gravitas Ventures (gravitasventures.com)

You can watch it on iTunes and Amazon

Watch the trailer here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpT2ku2H8s!

Visit the website https://www.thehouseinbetween.com/

In this episode, we are talking to Steve Gonsalves and Kendall Whelpton. Steve has a long history of working with the paranormal going all the way back to 2005 when he began working on the show Ghost Hunters. While working on that show Steve met and worked with Kendall on Ghost Hunters which is why he knew that he was a perfect fit for this film. Kendall has a long history of not only filming ghosts but also fighting and filming the open seas on shows like Big Tuna and Battlefish.

Be sure to check out Kendall's production company, Robot Ninja Media https://www.robotninjamedia.com/

Follow them @robot_ninja_media, @stevegonsalvesofficial, @kendallwhelpton, and on Facebook

Follow our hosts!

Heather on Twitter @ @broadwhowrites and Instagram @that_broad_who_writes

B.C. on Twitter and LinkedIn @bcwehman

Heather Grayson:
Warning. Everything you're about to hear is real. During the recording of this podcast, our studio began to have its own unexplained occurrences. Is it the paranormal? We'll let you decide.

B.C. Wehman:
When Alice Jackson built her dream house in 1990, immediately things weren't quite right.

Heather Grayson:
Doors would slam when no one had opened them. The doorbell would ring and no one would be there.

B.C. Wehman:
Objects seemingly moved from where they had been left with no explanation.

Heather Grayson:
The paranormal activity continued throughout the years, but it was nothing that Alice couldn't handle.

B.C. Wehman:
Until 2011. That's when Alice awoke during her sleep to a piercing, bright light that was quickly followed by pitch black with dancing red dots of light.

Heather Grayson:
That was something Alice had never experienced before. Alice sought out paranormal investigators to try and determine what was happening in her house.

B.C. Wehman:
10 years later, the investigation is still going on.

Heather Grayson:
Hi, I'm Heather Grayson. Writer, producer and director who craves passion in filmmaking and documentarians are just that. I write fiction, but I love to watch the truth.

B.C. Wehman:
My name is B.C. Wehman. I'm an actor, a writer and entertainer, all sorts of creative endeavors, but what I love most? Being a storyteller. It's why I love documentaries. They're extraordinary stories from every day extraordinary people.

Heather Grayson:
This is behind the doc and today we are behind the scenes with The House In Between.

Alice:
11:30 and I was probably in bed by 12:00 and it was pitch black dark in here and a light came on and I opened my eyes and it was light. It was a patch of tunnel daylight from the ceiling to the floor and it was daylight in this tube of Y and it was pitch black in the rest of the room. I just stared at it. After about 10 seconds, it just went out. I just turned my head, then I pulled back the covers and I saw, they were like real bright red buttons of light. I had a flashlight on the bed and I shined the flashlight all around the room and there was nothing unusual. I really did feel watched. I felt a presence, I felt observed. I didn't know if it was a religious experience. I didn't know if it was a UFO experience, I didn't know what it was. It scared me to death. That was a turning point in my life because I decided that I would not stay here by myself at night.

B.C. Wehman:
Welcome everyone to Behind The Doc where we take a deep dive into documentary filmmaking and the people that make them. Heather and I, we watch a lot of documentaries, you know that and very few of them elicit the conversations that we had prior to today's show. Let's break the fourth wall, we meet, we share stories about the film we watched and today was full of spooky ghost stories and that is because Heather and I, we just watched The House In Between and we are very excited to have director Steve Gonsalves along with co-director Kendall Whelpton. Welcome gentlemen, how you doing today?

Steve Gonsalves:
[crosstalk 00:03:28] Yeah, doing good.

B.C. Wehman:
Excellent. Well, let's get started and we'll start with you, Steve. Let's just get there. This is a movie. It is documentaring a real life haunting of a house and Steve, you've been on Ghost Hunters for many years. You have seen thousands, literally, of paranormal occurrences. Why, after all these years, make a documentary about one particular location?

Steve Gonsalves:
There are a lot of reasons, actually. The first just being the fact that I had never heard of a study, a controlled study lasting 10 years of paranormal phenomena, especially in a private residence. That just doesn't happen, but this house was just open to investigators. As you see in the film, John and Brad.

Movie Clip:
There's something there that lets you know it's there. This house, it's really grabbed me. It's got its hooks sinked into me. There's a lot of things that happen in this house that we can't explain.

Steve Gonsalves:
For 10 years and they studied it and collected data and I saw a woman, Alice, of course who is one of the nicest people, honestly, that you'll ever meet and so, once I got there, I did see some things and had a few experiences where I said, "Oh, this could be a revisit," and in just meeting them, you can't help but fall in love with them, honestly. So, I saw the opportunity to help somebody legitimately through this process, getting some real answers, but also to tell a different type of paranormal story, one that hadn't been told to a large audience before and that is the stigma that people deal with who are living with a haunting, how the town looks at them, how people perceive it.

Alice:
I never mentioned to hardly anybody in this town about the paranormal activity in my house because I wasn't sure how they would take it. It's in the Bible Belt and I didn't know how they would take it.

Steve Gonsalves:
And what they really go through. It's not just, "Hey, I live in a haunted house. This is awesome. Come check it out," and it's all smiles and super fun like you see on the TV shows and that sort of thing. It's a very real thing and this was a woman in crisis.

Heather Grayson:
Yeah. We met Alice in the film and she is very much a person who, she's a believer. She's definitely in and living in a house for as long as she has and seeing all these things, I bet she would be, but she's truly a believer. She is looking for help. Why didn't she just sell the house?

Steve Gonsalves:
That's a great question. The first reason is it is her house that she built, the house that she dreamt about and she really did build it thinking that she was going to raise a family and that sort of thing and that quickly crumbled and I think she held on to it in the hopes that hey, I can get back into that house, but then she said something to me, when she said, "I'm afraid that if I sell the house, I'll never get the answers. For as long as I have the house, I know that I can have people study it. I can maybe get to an answer."

Alice:
The reason I still have my house and I haven't sold it is because I really believe it has a purpose. I think opening it up to people is the way that something will be found. If I sold it, somebody else might not be open to that.

B.C. Wehman:
And Kendall, you've been with Steve almost since the beginning, I believe right? Since 2004 filming these paranormal investigations? When Steve comes to you and says, "We're going to do something a little different," what is the process like filming, say a documentary over this course of time, then filming maybe an episodic series? What's the biggest difference on your end on that technical side as you begin to prepare to put together a film like this?

Kendall Whelpton:
We had talked a little bit about the house and right away I started realizing that the claims there were very unique and different and I started getting excited and Steve and I threw a bunch of ideas back and forth on what we envisioned for a documentary and doing things different. The whole approach to the documentary was to do something different than had been done in the past in paranormal. So, we really wanted to approach it with a different lens and we literally took that all the way with cameras and lenses and just everything we did was different than you would shoot, say a documentary style TV show. For us, it was a whole new palette. I mean, just to be able to have a budget to put your ideas right in front of you and be able to fall through with a project from point A to B all the way to Z and put those creative ideas that we've always had into play.

B.C. Wehman:
How many cameras? You talk about lenses. How many cameras do you think you had going in that house? Because there seems to be a lot of them. Besides just you filming, the still cameras. How many do you think you had for that shoot?

Kendall Whelpton:
Well, we shot primarily with the red cam and then our B camera was a smaller 87 Sony. We had three GoPros and then all the house cameras, I think we have seven or eight DVR house cameras that are running 24/7. Every second of the day there was a camera rolling in the house just in case some paranormal activity happened.

Steve Gonsalves:
Do you believe in ghosts?

Movie Clip:
Believe in what? No, I don't.

B.C. Wehman:
And we had talked a little bit earlier about how Alice had dealt with maybe the outside community and you see some reservations. She didn't tell people for a while and then finally this new story comes out and that's when it becomes a little more common knowledge. How was it as you sat down and began to interview some of the town folks, some of the people living in the community who have been around it, some seem skeptical, some seem apprehensive. Did you have difficulty getting people to speak on camera about that? Were they pretty forthcoming? What was that process like finding people who lived in Alice's neighborhood or in her community? Because as a couple of residents said, it's a small town. Everyone knows everyone there and everyone knows their business, so to speak. So, were they excited to talk about it? Did they not want the attention? What was that like reaching out to that community about the story?

Steve Gonsalves:
It was difficult to be honest with you. When it was dealing with people that Alice knew, they were very open and honest, but getting into the town itself was a little more difficult. You see Mary Alice Heidrick, she's literally the town historian and official records keeper. So, she was amazing to deal with and very gracious and there was a facade there where the political people in the town would massage us a bit. We got hustled by the electrician. He was a little bit of a tough-

Movie Clip:
I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. I mean, I would have liked to have seen it doing what you all said it did though. That would be interesting to me. I think electrical's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. I think you're looking at something else.

Steve Gonsalves:
You know what was really difficult? Was the science community and I spent a lot of time in the pre-production of the film and in that year, I must have talked to 40 physicists to find one that would talk to me on camera about the paranormal. Luckily, he happened to be at Jackson State University, pretty close by and his expertise was exactly what we needed answers in. So, it worked out pretty good, but through that process I got a lot of great information for Alice and for what we were doing off camera. They just wouldn't be on camera. They were very difficult in that regard and same with geologists. We tried really hard to get some geologists on camera. No geologists wanted anything to do with it. They almost hang up on you. What's this for? [crosstalk 00:11:30] Prank call. Prank caller. Get out of here. We got made fun of, literally got made fun of. We had a geologist make fun of us. It was-

B.C. Wehman:
First of all, how's a geologist, the guy that looks at rocks all day, he doesn't have a lot of room to talk. Let's be honest. You're looking for ghost. He's staring at the ground. Let's see. Tomato, tomato there. I thought Steve and Kendall, that was one of Heather and I's favorite parts is the different approach, I think, to the paranormal investigations, almost that you tried, I don't want to say to debunk it, but you tried to prove scientifically every avenue and having those scientists in there who were clearly not believers, I should say, who were on the fence. I found that to be intriguing. It was not a fluff piece. Everyone believed in it. So, probably presenting that, by having a little bit of naysayers and some scientific evidence and you yourself trying to explain it scientifically, you and the crew, was an amazing touch to it that I thought really added. Was that an effort on your part to say, "Let's do this?" Is that something that has changed and grown in you as you've been doing this for almost 16 years now?

Steve Gonsalves:
Well, that's a good question. It wasn't part of the original conceptualization because you don't go in saying, "People are going to tell us they don't believe in this stuff," and you just don't know that, but when they were saying that, you have all these different people saying, "Look, even the historian says you guys go around and around in abandoned houses at night, I'll be asleep." They don't believe in this stuff, but it was important to me to make sure that stayed in the film because that shows that we're dealing with unbiased people here. There is no swaying. Disproving things, it's what I as an investigator and most of the investigators I work with, what we try to do. You don't want to fool yourself. You're not doing a service to anybody if you're misinterpreting what you're experiencing or if they're misinterpreting what they're experiencing. It needs to be a write up and be what it is.

Movie Clip:
We want [inaudible 00:13:28]. The earth cannot create any charge. Maybe because the lightning, something from nature, it can be charged, but they cannot create new charge. So, this is a law.

Steve Gonsalves:
That's what makes this doc unique and different than some of the other stuff that people have seen out there because I don't know if anybody's ever gone in and just documented a haunted house without a format, without a preconceived, "Oh, this place is haunted." We went in with the open mindness of well, what if this place isn't haunted? We're going to tell that story. We went in with the plans to document everything and see what the story is along the way and it turned into this really great deal, this format of just following each lead and then we'd go and try to see what science has to say about this or what this person has to say about this or what this device has to say about this and we really tried to keep it an even playing field for the skeptic and the believer. It was very important for us to tell both sides. That was our goal on the film itself.

Heather Grayson:
I absolutely agree with that. Actually, our little family here at Behind The Doc, we have some believers and we have some skeptics and so, I think that for this case of the documentary and just how you told the story, did something just happen?

B.C. Wehman:
Are you still there, Kendall?

Heather Grayson:
Hello?

B.C. Wehman:
Stand by real quick. Copy.

Heather Grayson:
Okay.

Kendall Whelpton:
Hello?

Steve Gonsalves:
I think we lost him.

Kendall Whelpton:
I think so.

B.C. Wehman:
If you guys can hear us, we're having a slight-

Kendall Whelpton:
Back on.

Heather Grayson:
Was there a power serge? Yeah, it was like-

B.C. Wehman:
It did sound, yeah. In my headphones and once again, Kendall, Steve, if you can hear us, just hang on. It did sound like a voomp and then it got silent. Heather called it. Right away you could tell there was a [crosstalk 00:15:40] vacuum in our headsets. You could tell everyone disappeared.

Steve Gonsalves:
Sure is.

Heather Grayson:
Steve and Kendall, can you guys hear us?

Steve Gonsalves:
They're everywhere.

B.C. Wehman:
There's a slight buzz when he's on and that you can hear.

Steve Gonsalves:
Oh, oh.

Heather Grayson:
If you guys can hear us, keep standing by. Something interesting has happened on our end. We're talking about ghosts, man. B.C., come on and we're in Lakewood. This is an old building. That was actually going to be my fricking question. That's what's making me so mad. You had everything stacked up against you. This was a brand new building.

B.C. Wehman:
What's going on? That's true. It was a newer house on old land.

Heather Grayson:
Yeah, it was. It was a brand new house. She built it.

B.C. Wehman:
Oh, we got something.

Heather Grayson:
I keep getting static. I keep getting shocked a little bit. Not kidding.

B.C. Wehman:
Well, if you're getting shocked repeatedly, that would be a potential electrical issue and there shouldn't be a charge coming through your headphones. It has a very low amperage that runs through them, but very tiny. You should not be able to feel it.

Heather Grayson:
What is happening?

B.C. Wehman:
I don't know, man. Some weird things happening right now. Okay. This has never happened. [crosstalk 00:16:58].

Heather Grayson:
This is crazy. I just got the thing again, B.C.

B.C. Wehman:
There's something through your head. That should not be happening. You should not be having shocks.

Heather Grayson:
It's not. It's like static. It's not.

B.C. Wehman:
Did it happen? It happened though right as you said it. That, I heard it in my headset and mine and I don't, I'm not-

Kendall Whelpton:
There we go. I'm going to hang up here.

B.C. Wehman:
Oh, wait. There's Kendall.

Kendall Whelpton:
Hey.

Heather Grayson:
We got one.

B.C. Wehman:
Kendall's back. I can't... Oh, there's Steve. I got both.

Steve Gonsalves:
All right.

Heather Grayson:
This has been weird, but I'm not even joking.

Steve Gonsalves:
I think it's gremlins.

B.C. Wehman:
It does. This stuff never happens. I was telling her, it never happens. We get a movie about the paranormal on and we are getting weird things and weird static charges in our room. This is weird and it's a very coincidental thing-

Heather Grayson:
And guess what guys? B.C.'s the skeptic. So, I'm just letting you know. [crosstalk 00:17:52]

B.C. Wehman:
I'm always willing to listen, but I am probably the most skeptical of the four of us here.

Steve Gonsalves:
That's good

B.C. Wehman:
In this room. The rest of them shared stories and I was just like, "We'll see." We're going to get to that though. We'll get to that in a second.

Heather Grayson:
We're all good. So, you guys can jump back in-

B.C. Wehman:
All right. Heather, do you remember where you were?

Heather Grayson:
I do-

B.C. Wehman:
We're going to kick right in and just keep going.

Heather Grayson:
Okay. So, what I was saying is out of our little family here we have some skeptics and we have some believers and what I wanted to really know, I liked how you guys in the documentary made that abundantly clear that we're looking for both sides. One of the things that we were looking at, was there any one of you or the other two, had they stayed in Alice's bedroom and slept in her bed to see those lights?

Steve Gonsalves:
Yeah. I actually offered to spend the night. One night I stayed there trying to document it and I was going to absolutely try to capture the lights and I stayed there all night long by myself. I did end up sleeping a few hours in the back bedroom back there where she had her experience and yeah. I slept really pretty sound, really good back there.

Steve Gonsalves:
Over the years, I've experienced one thing with lights. I was upstairs in the bedroom at the Mississippi house with the door closed. We were doing an EVP session. It was me and one fellow investigator and the bottom frame of the door turned bright white and it was almost like a camera shutter, two to three flashes of white. I sat there in awe for a few minutes. It was not raining. There was no thunder. The night was clear. I opened the door and it never happened again.

Heather Grayson:
This is a brand new house. So, it's not as though it was a house that's been standing there for 200 years. It's the brand new house that she built, that Alice built and that sort of how Poltergeist was, but it was built on something that it shouldn't be built on and in the documentary, you guys are going to people and you're looking at was there a cemetery there? Was there something that had happened? And it happened again.

B.C. Wehman:
Did you get shocked again?

Heather Grayson:
Yes.

B.C. Wehman:
Why are you getting shocked when that happens-

Heather Grayson:
It's not shocking, it's like static and it gives me goosebumps and it makes me-

B.C. Wehman:
Feeling that surge-

Heather Grayson:
I'm telling you-

B.C. Wehman:
Unless it's you. Unless you are putting out some weird electrical charge-

Heather Grayson:
I'm sorry if I am electrical, but that is just me.

B.C. Wehman:
That is bizarre. It's bizarre that you feel it. I can hear it, but you feel it every time. That's weird.

Heather Grayson:
I felt it whenever I put my headphones on. What is going on? And it's every time I talk.

B.C. Wehman:
I don't know.

Heather Grayson:
The Poltergeist thing, right?

B.C. Wehman:
Poltergeist-

Heather Grayson:
Yeah.

Steve Gonsalves:
There we go.

Heather Grayson:
Oh, hello.

B.C. Wehman:
I don't know what's going on, man. It's a weird... Heather can feel these surges through her body. This is a weird day.

Heather Grayson:
This is going as weird as expected.

Steve Gonsalves:
Hello.

B.C. Wehman:
Welcome back again, Steve. Thank you for being patient with us-

Heather Grayson:
Yes, thank you-

B.C. Wehman:
We are having things that have never happened before. I was just telling Kendall, Heather can feel these surges every time you guys, it cuts out. She's like, "I got shocked again." So, I don't know what's going on. We're trying to problem solve on our end too. Our producers like, "Do you have things plugged in? What? Do you guys have a hot plate back here? What is happening?" I don't know what is happening. I apologize. Thank you for being patient with us.

Steve Gonsalves:
No problem.

Heather Grayson:
I imagine this happens quite often-

B.C. Wehman:
She's the one that feels the shock.

Steve Gonsalves:
Oh, we lose cameras all the time.

Heather Grayson:
That's so strange.

B.C. Wehman:
So, we're going to try theory because Heather feels every time she asks a question, it cuts off. So, whoever's there. So-

Heather Grayson:
Yeah. I'm making B.C. ask you all the questions now.

B.C. Wehman:
There's an interesting parallel between the Poltergeist film and Alice's house. The fact that it's a new house, which seemingly may have been built on some previous tombstones or graveyards. In some houses, is that a common occurrence? How odd was it to you as someone, Steve, who was a fan of Poltergeist and had worked with people who researched it to be like this is a similar instance of a newer build on top of potentially relocated graves? It's very similar in ilk to Poltergeist. Was that something you were aware of while you were filming and is that a common thing?

Movie Clip:
This is a picture of the Florence Cemetery.

Steve Gonsalves:
Right. Yep.

Movie Clip:
This part, it's clear that is the original part of the cemetery.

Steve Gonsalves:
All this here?

Movie Clip:
All of this.

Steve Gonsalves:
Okay.

Movie Clip:
When the town burned, all of the records were burned and there is not any records anywhere on that part of it.

Steve Gonsalves:
I see. Do you think where Miss Alice's house is, that perhaps there could have been something like that before record keeping, before it all burnt to-

Movie Clip:
It could be, but if it is I don't think there's any record of that.

Steve Gonsalves:
So, if there was a grave of some sort or a burial where Miss Alice lives now, it would of have to have been before the fire?

Movie Clip:
Right.

Steve Gonsalves:
There have been some terrible things that have happened in that backyard there and we may explore that someday a little more in depth.

Heather Grayson:
We see that there are not only people, but objects that are trying to prove what is happening. One is the little girl who has now grown up next door, Erin, and her experiences with trying to go into the divide or the Oaks and the other dimension, we heard a lot, and we see her reaction to a certain spot. We hear her history, but then we see a baseball that ends up some things that normally baseballs don't. So, what was it that you saw these things and I mean, these are big indicators for not only you, but the audience and how is it that the baseball... Because I did see a couple of times that it was a different baseball. Is that sort of how you wanted to switch it up? And how was Erin at the end of this?

Kendall Whelpton:
Yeah. So for the baseball, those guys throughout their investigations at the house, they do switch things up. They'll put trigger objects along the stairs, all over the house really.

Movie Clip:
We use a lot of trigger objects inside the house. We started putting a baseball or two baseballs on the staircase in the Mississippi house and for awhile we set them up there and obviously we try to communicate to the spirits that we wanted them to move the baseball, to roll it down the stairs. We want nothing more than to hear the baseball bounce down those stairs and hit the floor. That baseball sat idle for days, but then one day just decided to up and move and fall down the steps by itself.

Kendall Whelpton:
That's one way they check to see if anything's happened at the house. They go back into the footage the next day and see if a trigger object has moved. If nobody's at the house or has been to the house in a while, they'll see those trigger objects and see if anything's been manipulated with them. So, as far as Erin, Erin was a very interesting story because I've always watched these shows and some of these documentaries and asked, "Well, what about the neighbor? What about the person... What's happening around this one location?"

Erin:
I've lived in this house next door since I was about five years old and ever since I've lived here I've always felt there was something different about next door even as a child. I would walk over there sometimes and one day I was over there and I just had a strong feeling of there's something different and I was probably six or seven years old and I was just convinced that there was somebody buried in the backyard and I told my parents for years that there is somebody buried in that backyard.

Kendall Whelpton:
It just fell into our lap that Erin next door was a bit sensitive growing up. She actually had found some old civil war burial mounds when she was a kid and she had that sense to her and she'd grown up next to Alice's house. She always had some feelings in those spots in the backyard and as far as the dimensional thing, I mean that is one of the theories is that ghosts could be, these things could actually not be deceased people, that there's a possibility that there could be something dipping in from another dimension showing itself with intelligence or whatnot and for the documentary we wanted to address and visit every possibility because there really is no rule book to the paranormal and I mean, there's good indicators. Steve's an expert at sniffing those out and we went and good for Steve for going outside the box on some of this stuff and visiting multi-dimension and some of these other things that are a possibility.

B.C. Wehman:
And I think a great way, Steve and Kendall specifically, you guys established this with some amazing drone shots. That footage really helped encapsulate the town and show me where we're talking about and I read Kendall that you are basically a self-taught drone camera person.

Kendall Whelpton:
Yeah.

B.C. Wehman:
Can you just talk a little bit about that and what drone filming? Because we like to talk to young filmmakers or experienced filmmakers and try and give them tips and clues too. What has that been like teaching yourself to fly the drone? Do you feel that's been a huge part as we move forward? Because it was beautiful footage. It really gave me a sense of the town. It painted this picture of where everyone lived and the graveyards. I really appreciate it and it was crystal clear too. It was beautifully shot, by the way. Your film looks amazing. So, how has that drone footage as you've gone forward been instrumental in some of the work you've done?

Kendall Whelpton:
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Drone is a pretty view. Another angle. It's the big wide. You can tell an amazing story, like you said, within just the huge frame that you can get in some of the moves. I've been drone operating and flying drones for about seven years now. It's been an amazing tool for storytelling. Those big drone shots, if I were to give anybody a tip it's you want to fly when the light is good. So, that golden hour, that magic hour, you want to utilize that and that's when I do a lot of my flying is when the shadows are dramatic, the trees are casting shadows on the land and in doing things that, that creates a uniqueness about it. I also like flying in bad weather. We tell a story about a town that has a lot of history. Of course I'm going to try to get out right before that rain storm and show the dark clouds.

Steve Gonsalves:
Can I add something onto that, Kendall?

Kendall Whelpton:
Yeah, of course.

Steve Gonsalves:
And this may be a bold statement. I know you would never admit to it, but you may be one of the first, if not the first person to fly drone for television and that sort of thing because I remember back in the early days of Ghost Hunters, when drones literally first pop on the scene, ones that you could buy, you would say, "I'm going to put a camera on that thing," and you did and I remember you had to get permission from the production company to really sort of hone that skill and see if they would include it into the show, that sort of thing, but you were doing it back then before it was a sanctioned thing. You were just like guerrilla style, put a camera on it. Let's hope it works.

B.C. Wehman:
If you were doing it, Kendall, back in '04, '05, in those early days of Ghost Hunters, that was definitely ahead of the curve. So, that's awesome. Especially since you taught and then built your own drones yourself.

Kendall Whelpton:
Thanks man.

B.C. Wehman:
I would be remiss before we let you go. Kendall, I have a question for you.

Kendall Whelpton:
Yeah.

B.C. Wehman:
Which is scarier? Filming potentially haunted house or filming people catching fish bigger than the size of your body? Because I feel like I'd be more scared with the fish on the boat than I would be in the house. Maybe I'm wrong, but that also looks super frightening. I know you work on Battle Fish and Wicked Tuna.

Kendall Whelpton:
Yeah. It's the fish, for sure. You're not going to get tossed out in a haunted house.

B.C. Wehman:
And then Steve, which traumatized you more? Seeing your first ghost or banging the skins for perpetual doom some 26 years ago? I listened to two or your EPs yesterday. That was pretty intense. What was that like? You've gone from a drummer back in the mid '90s to ghost hunting. Did that prepare you?

Steve Gonsalves:
Luckily being into that music, you're already into ghosts and the [inaudible 00:30:56] and the strange. So, I had a good foundation for it, for sure, but yeah. I've been a drummer my whole life. Metal, blues and all that stuff. Funk, whatever you want, I'm there.

B.C. Wehman:
And then finally, where do you got to go? What's the place? What's your, what's the word I'm looking for, right? What's your Holy Grail? What haunted place have you not been to-

Heather Grayson:
Your white whale.

B.C. Wehman:
Yeah, your white whale. Where do you want to go film next? What's your white whale you're chasing?

Steve Gonsalves:
I mean, it's very cliche to say, but like most investigators I think getting into the Amityville House would be pretty fascinating just because most of the people in the field don't really believe in what was happening there too much. It'd be nice to sort of put that to rest and that or the Coliseum I think would be pretty awesome.

B.C. Wehman:
Oh, yeah.

Steve Gonsalves:
400,000 deaths in just a few years is pretty intense

B.C. Wehman:
You talk about lasting impressions, Amityville Horror, when I was a child, a younger child, probably 10 or 11 watching that movie and there's a spot where the young boy gets his fingers crushed in the window sill from a window, since that moment and I am now 45 years old, I will not put my fingers in a window sill. So, that's the lasting impression. It is a fear, an unknown fear of mine. Just one of those things. It can make a lasting impression and I am never going to look at a baseball the same now after watching the House In Between.

B.C. Wehman:
Steve, Kendall, thank you very much for joining us on Behind The Doc. It was a great talk. If you're back in Ohio, I don't know if I believe yet, but give us a ring because we'll go on a ghost hunt. I've never been on one. Feel like I'm a scaredy cat though also. So, both skeptic and scaredy cat at the same time. I don't know if that works, but I really appreciate you having on and explaining to us a lot about the movie. It was great to watch. It was a great to see the scientific angle of it. I think it's unique. We definitely recommend everyone go check out The House In Between. Thank you very much. Heather, your final words? And we'll-

Heather Grayson:
Yes. Thank you guys so much. Steve, Kendall, it was really a pleasure to not only talk to you, but watch this film. I'm a believer for sure. I was definitely like, "Okay, tell me more." I was definitely that person and as far as ghost hunting goes, it seems so fascinating. It would just be something so fun. As a filmmaker myself, it would just be just an absolute joy. Thank you guys so much. Thank you for talking to us and I wish you well.

Kendall Whelpton:
Thank you.

Steve Gonsalves:
Thanks for having us. It's been very nice.

Kendall Whelpton:
All right. So, I was inside and I was running around. I'm trying to get this gear sent out because we have gear shipping out today. Got the camera, I'm messing with that and I'm just going inside of that house and nobody was right here at all. Nobody was in the house. It was just me and I'm walking by and all of a sudden I hear this ball falling down the stairs and there it is. We're checking if we have it on camera right now. Here's the ball. It came from up there.

Steve Gonsalves:
I like it, but the fact that there's people in the house moving around, all that stuff just makes me-

Kendall Whelpton:
I was the only one in the house.

Steve Gonsalves:
Yeah, that's true.

Kendall Whelpton:
You know what I mean? [crosstalk 00:33:57] And I promise dude, this whole thing's about honesty. I'm honest with you guys, I was walking with the ball as it was-

Steve Gonsalves:
We just saw-

Kendall Whelpton:
I heard a noise and I looked over and it was like dink, dink, dink.

Heather Grayson:
Thanks for listening to this episode of Behind The Doc. If you liked us, because we all know you did, leave us a review on your Apple Podcast app.

B.C. Wehman:
Behind The Doc is produced by Evergreen Podcast in association with Gravitas Ventures.

Heather Grayson:
Special thanks to executive producers Nolan Gallagher and Michael Dealoa.

B.C. Wehman:
Produced by Sarah Will Group.

Heather Grayson:
And audio engineer, Eric Coltmow.

B.C. Wehman:
And you'll find us everywhere and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.

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