Consultant Insights Rerun: Talent Development

Sara: Hi there, feedback fans. This is Sara from Can I Offer You Some Feedback and Business Bites. I wanted to give you an update on the podcast. We're taking a quick episode break to make some minor changes based on your feedback. We'll be back early October with more insightful interviews and bite-sized leadership content just for you. In the meantime, we'll be revisiting some popular episodes from the archive. We're looking forward to getting back to new episodes soon. And whether you listen every week or here and there, we wanted to say thank you for listening.

Sara: Welcome to a special episode of Can I Offer You Some Feedback? My name is Sara, and this is the podcast for those who have a complicated relationship with feedback and are looking to hear from real people across levels and industries with their ideas, perspectives, and best practices on feedback. Today, I want to share this special episode where I talk with another consultant and coach who specializes in leadership coaching and consulting.

In this episode, we'll be hearing their insights across the industries that they work with and what they wish they could give their clients feedback on. I want to welcome Sarah Eppink to the podcast. She's the Principal and Founder of Aisling Group. Welcome to the conversation today.

Sarah Eppink: Hi, my friend. Thank you so much for having me, Sara.

Sara: Absolutely. I'd like to dive into our conversation today and start off with a little bit about your specific perspective. Can you share a little bit on your primary areas of your practice and the work you're doing most often?

Sarah Eppink: Sure. Aisling Group has three primary solution areas. So the first is leadership coaching, the second is facilitated programs, and then the third is talent consulting. Leadership coaching provides dedicated one-on-one support for leaders at any level in an organization who really want to increase their competence to lead and also to engage their team to get the best results. I mentioned facilitated leadership programs. So we do that both virtually and in person. Those programs target specific leadership skills.

And then lastly, we also provide talent consulting. The goal there is to offer fresh perspectives and ideas that address talent needs within our clients' organizations. And really, Sara, that could be anything from just creating development plans to designing and rolling out an entire succession planning process if need be.

Sara: Yeah. I mean, you're getting the opportunity to kind of work on all aspects of the spectrum, from the individual to the group to thinking about the strategic side.

Sarah Eppink: Yes.

Sara: I'm curious to know, you know, you have many years of experience both working in-house and in your own practice, what feels different in this talent development space, either post-COVID or just over the past couple of years? Maybe it's not pandemic-related. What kind of feels or you're seeing that's different?

Sarah Eppink: Sure. It's a great question and I do think what I'm observing and what I'm noticing, what I'm feeling started because of COVID and is now starting to kind of take on its own genesis post-COVID. As you know, Sara, just by virtue of the work that you do, you and I are in similar work streams and talk shop a lot. There are so many things that feel different and that started post-COVID. You know, understatement of the year or of the decade rather.

But ultimately, if you think about it, we live differently, we work differently now. In the learning space, the appetite for professional learning and development has changed. The technology that supports shorter attention spans, which we all have is more widely used now. When it comes to coaching, though, I think this is where I've noticed the biggest shift in my clients in terms of how they're showing up in work, and in life.

I will say that the topics my coaching clients bring into our discussions have definitely evolved. I coach a number of senior healthcare professionals in my practice who had a much different COVID experience than anyone. I mean, obviously. You can imagine how complex those conversations can be.

Pre-COVID, regardless of industry, my coaching clients really wanted to stay focused on leadership behaviors in the workplace. And I bill myself as a leadership coach, but I've always had a whole-person approach to coaching. And so, the leaders I coach would say, I don't really want to talk about the life stuff. I just want to keep it solely focused on work. And I go, "Mm, okay."

And maybe perhaps they would dip their toe into the "life stuff", but really that was only when it started to get in the way of the work stuff or started to distract them or consume too much of their energy. Otherwise they just really didn't go there. And as you know, Sara, and I'm sure most of your listeners probably know as well, we in the, I want to say human support field in general, no matter what you do, if you support human beings, you recognize that we're all one person. There's not so much a work self and a separate personal self. And while you can create boundaries, there is still going to be carry over from one to another.

And COVID blew that wide open. COVID just blew that apart. And we're still seeing that. Even if you did still have to go into an office every day because you either worked in healthcare, or you're in public service or whatever your job is, you still took inventory of what you were doing and if you were able to do that job safely. What I've noticed is, we haven't really slipped back for the most part, which I'm happy about. We haven't slipped back into a separate work and life persona.

And even though I've always asked questions about the personal stuff, I find that my clients now are more willing to go there because they're recognizing how one impacts the other. And they're actually even bringing up the life stuff before I can even ask questions about it, which is telling to me that this is evolving in our HR space, in our talent space, and really just how we show up and support people at work and otherwise.

Sara: Yeah. As you were sharing, I was kind of hearing the parallels between, I'm calling them like personal silos, right? Like me as a person and organizationally, the desire to kind of break down silos, think of it as one entity, what are all the different components that build it? And as the person, as you're saying, COVID has really broken down that "silo" between work self, personal self, family self, and has blurred a lot of those lines.

Sarah Eppink: Yes.

Sara: Which is hard to put the lines back in place. And I think it's kind of just like a microcosm example of the organizational silos that have kind of been put in and thinking about how they're getting dismantled in different ways with different groups and people. I'm curious, sometimes a client you're working with isn't able to immediately appreciate kind of a gradual change that might've been building or what feels like a very obvious elephant that you're observing. What are some ways that you help them, whether an individual or an organization see what you're seeing?

Sarah Eppink: Yeah. It's such a great question because we all have blind spots. And I love how you framed this question as it's not just an individual blind spot. It can be an organizational blind spot as well. So I do see this in the consulting space. Anytime I'm doing an executive off-site or a leadership team off-site, I meet individually with every single person who's going to be there and we talk about their experience in the team. And I'm not sharing all of that. It's a confidential conversation. And I ask them as an outsider coming in and supporting this group for a day or two days or whatever it is, what are the elephants in the room that they think I should know about?

And what's so interesting and not surprising, as you know, Sara is everybody shares the same elephant and nobody wants to talk about it. So we spend that time talking about it. When it comes to my coaching clients, one of the first things that I do is I feed back to them what they've said. And I do that using their own words because words matter.

And sometimes we talk and we don't necessarily realize the words that we're using to articulate something. And so I'll say, "Can I replay what you just said?" Because I will write that down in a moment. I'll replay that and then I'll check for understanding that how I'm interpreting that message is what they actually meant. And sometimes people are a bit taken aback by that and they go, "Oh, my gosh, did I really just say that?" "Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did. So tell me about what's behind that?"

I'll also ask about how their words and actions are lining up with their values. So if we tie feedback to something someone values, we can instantly spark behavior change by creating an insight. For example, if someone values teamwork and collaboration and what they're telling me is giving me this thought process that if I'm on the receiving side of that, I don't feel like you're showing up as someone who values my collaboration, then that's a misalignment, right?

And so I can share that perspective with them of where I think they might want to explore doing things differently. And then of course, who can argue with data? And we all love data. And data quantitative or qualitative in the form of 360-degree reviews and other talent assessments gives us a lot of real feedback that we can build an action plan around.

Sara: I'm so appreciative of the fact that you are bringing up the value side to it in the sense that sometimes feedback is offered to us, which inherently, the feedback is good. But if I don't think that the other person values me, I don't value them, I don't value their perspective... it could be the exact same message, but the who of delivering it.

And I liked that kind of breaking out that you did of thinking about value in that way. Because I'm sure you've been in situations where you've said something hasn't gone anywhere, and then someone else says the exact same thing, and somehow it's the right answer and you're like, "Oh, that person who didn't hear me the first time must not value my perspective, my experience, my whatever it is in the moment." That can be really insightful for people I think to understand why is it not hitting in this example? Why is it hard to hear here? Why is this challenging in this moment?

Sarah Eppink: Yeah. And I think we need to hear the message from the right person at the right time. And so you could hear the same message from two different people at two different times and it resonates completely differently based on the rapport you have with the person sharing that feedback with you. I don't care if it's a boss or a colleague. I don't care if it's your partner, right? It depends on the rapport you have and are you open at that time for whatever reason? Do you have the energy and the brain space to really just even think through that at that point in time?

Sara: Yeah, absolutely. I'm wondering if you could share an example of either an individual client or an organization, it can be totally anonymous, who you feel is really committed to doing the work around, whether it's your coaching side, kind of really showing up and taking advantage of the opportunity.

Sarah Eppink: Yeah. So this is a difficult question just because selfishly every coach wants to say this. Honestly, I have such amazing clients, Sara, that picking one or even two is just incredibly difficult. But I will tell you I have two that I'll share quickly that instantly came to mind when you mentioned this. So a past client that I've worked with who was just so incredibly open to the coaching process. She was a senior leader who loved her job, loved her team. She felt like her job was her calling and she had arrived.

But she was just feeling in her life that there could be more than work and that that fulfilling this need would allow her to be an even more engaging role model and leader for her staff. She wanted her staff to be joyful and happy and she recognized she wasn't living that way. She had a partner and kids at home and obviously she adores them. She wanted herself and them to feel that they were all living their best lives.

And one of the things that I do with all of my clients, regardless of your level, regardless of what other talent assessment tool we're using is I always have my clients use an instrument that's a needs and values inventory. And it gives me a lot of insight on what's important to them and sort of what those needs are of where the gaps might be.

And with her, we also talked about when and where and how her family felt the most present and grounded and happy. And it wasn't here in the Cleveland area. And they thought they had to live here. They'd put these parameters and I just asked this simple question of what if it wasn't here? What if you didn't have this parameter?

And it opened this other world to her and her partner when she told them about that and they decided to move south. And they've been living there for almost a year now. I get pictures of their family all smiling around the swimming pool and that is just the best feeling. Currently, I have a current client who's engaged with me as her coach because she's newer to working at this level in leadership. She is a recently promoted C-suite.

And she reached out to her HR business partner and engaging with an external coach because she wants to approach this role very intentionally, right? Dream come true when someone doesn't wait for something bad to happen, then says, "Whoopsies, I think I need a coach." This was very proactive, which is the best-case scenario.

So we talk in the moment about things that are going on in her team, where to focus, how to ensure that her positive intentions come across to her team as she's communicating and showing up and delegating and all those things. And an interesting thing has started to happen in this dynamic as well. She's become so excited about coaching and so all in that when she hears of something that she thinks other people could benefit from, she shares it.

She shares a concept or a model or a thought process or a question with her team or people in the moment. And her ahas are kind of starting to cascade. And that's pretty cool because I'm coaching her but everyone in her team and potentially her peers are benefiting from our relationship, from our coaching dynamic. And that's pretty cool. I have not heard of that happening before I'm sure it may, but the fact that she's telling me about that, it's a really cool observation and cool to be a part of.

Sara: I think that it's so valuable to her and it's so impactful for her, she can't help but share it, right? Or help the connections into some other areas. That is very exciting.

Sarah Eppink: Yeah. She's like, I think this is cool. I have this aha. I want you to benefit from that too. You know, that's very cool.

Sara: Yeah. That's awesome. I'm curious, you've touched on this a little bit so far. I think sometimes when we talk about being coaches, that gets misunderstood or misconstrued. And I know that you have spent the time and a lot of rigor around your credentialing process for coaching. I'm hoping you can share maybe what is something that you wish others understood about the potential impact of coaching or the importance of coaching, either for themselves or for leaders in their organization.

Sarah Eppink: I wish others understood that coaching is unlike any other kind of professional and even personal development that you will ever have in your life. That taking a class and learning a model is very helpful when you actually apply what you've learned. And I deliver those programs.

I think those programs all have a time and a place of course, but there is no other experience that equates to sitting with your coach for a dedicated hour every other week to pause, to take inventory of how we're doing, to be reflective, and to think about what we'd like to do differently or better. And then, having a truly objective person support you with experimenting with new ways of doing, new ways of being. There's just no other type of development like it.

Sara: As you were describing, I'm just also thinking about my own practice. I think that giving space to reflect, to think about, I feel like the need increases as the pace of organizations increase, as the complexity of the work increases, as the different demands of our time increase. As we make things more complicated, we need spaces where we can simplify and take a moment and really think about, you know, to your example earlier, like what are the limitations that I'm putting on myself that maybe don't need to be there? And are there different ways of approaching the work or the way that I want to do things and what am I limiting myself on that can be a really nice benefit of coaching?

Sarah Eppink: Yeah, that's right. And even though we say, "Oh, I'm a reflective person. I pause and I think and I do an internal deep dive," we don't often actually do that. We think we do it in the moment, but it's very different to intentionally set aside that time and have someone ask you questions about it that maybe you hadn't thought about. And when you have that awareness, you just move through the world differently.

Sara: Well, Sarah, for our last question in our time together, can I offer you some feedback?

Sarah Eppink: Yes, I'm excited about this question. Actually, I would love you to offer me some feedback.

Sara: Well, I wanted to acknowledge, so we've known each other now for almost five years at this point, and I have been so appreciative, and you even shared it a little bit today, this openness and this spaciousness that you have around giving folks space, and I know one of our first conversations, we talked about the difference of abundancy mindset and scarcity mindset.

And I have been so grateful for your perspective on, what's the opportunity here? And seeing that there's no rush, there's plenty of time, plenty of work, plenty of opportunities, plenty of chances for us to use our skills and provide other folks with the benefit of our experience and hear from them what their perspective and their experience. Because we certainly have some expertise, but we're not experts on everything.

And I think that the feeding back that you mentioned earlier, I know I've benefited in our conversations where you have repeated back to me certain statements I've made or certain ideas or fixations that I've held and you've said, "But is that really true?" You know, like, did you just hear that?

I am so happy to hear that you're doing it with other people, not just me. We're so centered on our own experiences with folks that I think it's such a fantastic ability that you have to really push people in a very spacious and open way to think a little bit differently about the things that are saying and that they themselves have the insight they need to hear it and they need to own it and acknowledge it and unprocess it. So, I wanted to say thank you for that.

Sarah Eppink: Well, thank you for sharing that with me. And I do remember those initial conversations that we had about the law of abundance and that mindset versus scarcity. And you have supported me in ways since that initial conversation as well. So it's just been a reciprocal, mutual win, win rapport and friendship and relationship that we have. And so I'm incredibly grateful for that.

It's just been so much fun to see what you have done over the past five years and now even with this podcast. So I thank you for that and I thank you as well. This has been a real honor and privilege for me.

Sara: Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me, and thanks to you for joining us in another special episode of Can I Offer You Some Feedback? You can reach me at [email protected]. We would love to hear from you and your thoughts on feedback or any other perspectives you'd like to hear from next. As always, give a quick rating on your platform of choice and share this podcast with a friend. And I'm hoping that tomorrow you take a chance and offer some feedback when it's needed most.