Euro-road trippin right along with Paige Toon

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

You are listening to Passions & Prologues, a literary podcast where each week I interview an author about a thing they love and how it inspires their work.

I'm your host, Adam Sockel, and today's guest is Paige Toon. Paige’s new book, Only Love Can Hurt Like This is out in both the UK and the United States now.

Paige is an internationally bestselling author whose books have sold millions of copies all around the world. And while we do get into that in this discussion, the first thing we talk about is her joy of going on road trips to see bands all across the UK.

We opened with a discussion about her last few trips going to the Netherlands and it’s super fascinating to hear her talk about it. I actually recently just got back from the UK, so it was nice to hear someone talking again about all of the wonderful things that that area of the world has to offer.

It was a total joy, I'm a huge live music fan as well. And so, it was fun to hear about all the different bands she's got to see and the different venues, and just basically how her and her partner got into this concept, why they love doing it, and what their travel process tends to look like.

In honor of Paige's discussion about traveling and music, I wanted to give you a book recommendation that is somewhat adjacent to that idea. It is about music, but it's also a little spooky.

I will say Paige's books definitely are not. Paige's books are fantastic rom-coms and you're going to love them, but I am in full pre-spooky season mode. So, I want to talk about briefly, We Sold Our Souls by Grady Hendrix.

It is a delightful book that came out in 2018, I believe, right around the fall time, and our main character's name is Kris. She's a downtrodden woman who is kind of struggling to get by, by working at a Best Western.

She used to be a good guitarist in a very popular heavy metal band. They were growing in popularity until their lead singer decided to become a solo artist. The solo artist makes it huge, but what ends up happening is Kris ends up finding out that the lead singer, Terry, sold his soul for success.

And so, basically, Kris is like, “I have nothing left to lose.” So, she goes on a road trip to Las Vegas to confront Terry, and it's written by Grady Hendrix. So, as you can imagine, there's a lot of spooky things that happen along the way. There's lots of fantastical horror-demons, all sorts of creepy crazy stuff that goes on. Really, really loved it.

It was actually the first book by Grady Hendrix that I ever read, and I've since read just about everything he will put to print.

So, if you are a fan of Grady Hendrix, I think you'll really like it. It is absolutely a left turn from Paige's writing, but like I said, I'm in spooky season mode now, and we're in the middle of July. That's just the way my brain works, and it's got a little bit to do with music, so there's a connection there.

As always, if you want to reach me, you can find me on TikTok and Instagram at Passions & Prologues, can also shoot me an email anytime you like at [email protected]. I appreciate all of you who have been doing that over the past couple of months.

As I always say, if you want to send me the things you are passionate about, I randomly send a bookshop.org gift card to one listener every single month for just reaching out, connecting, I really appreciate it.

It's the reason I do this podcast, is to talk to authors and to get to connect with readers and do book recommendations. So, it means the world to me when you all reach out.

Also, if you want to give me a rating or review, you can always do that wherever you're listening to your podcasts. I know every podcaster asks for those things, but it really does help people find us just a little bit more easily.

But yeah, basically, I really, really appreciate hearing from all of you. I appreciate you listening. It really means so much to me that you listen in every week and get some book recommendations from me.

So, okay, I am going to turn over this conversation to my discussion with Paige Toon, author of Only Love Can Hurt Like This on Passions & Prologues.

[Music Playing]

Okay, Paige, what is something you are super passionate about that we're going to be discussing today?

Paige Toon:

One of my favorite things to do is to drive to Europe from the UK, and go and see bands in the European locations.

Adam Sockel:

Oh, I have already like 50 questions out of this. So, first things first, I am an American, I live in Cleveland, Ohio, so I know that you lived in these states as well. And so, the states and the UK are vastly different, in the sense that it could take me a whole day to drive anywhere of consequence from where I am.

So, for starters, where are some of the places that you like to go drive, and then we’ll get into the specific bands and stuff? Take me through the process, where do you like to find these bands?

Paige Toon:

Okay, so the last two bands I've been to see have both been in the Netherlands, but in two different cities. Went to Utrecht back in November to see Woodkid, which was just amazing. He was so incredible live.

And then we went to see Wolf Alice, which is one of my absolute favorite bands. And we went to Nijmegen, which is a city that I'd never really heard of until we went there. But the joy of getting to go and see them in these smaller cities for start, it's lovely to go and hang out with fellow Europeans, and just go out with a different crowd.

But also, you get to go and see bands that would sell out major venues in the UK, and you get to see them in smaller venues. So, another one of my absolute favorites was Catfish and the Bottlemen where we saw her in Amsterdam.

Adam Sockel:

So, okay, so it's a lot of Netherlands drive. So, first off, how far, because again, I am a woefully uninformed American. How far of the drive for you is it from where you're at in the UK to, let's say, to the Netherlands, for example?

Paige Toon:

It can be about eight hours from where I leave, because it is a couple of hours to drive down to the Eurostar, the Euro tunnel, and get across to Europe, to France. And then it just depends on traffic.

And quite often, we go and see them on a Friday, and then you end up stuck in Friday evening traffic and only just making it in time for a quick drink before. This is my husband and I, we do this together. But yeah, it was just absolutely favorite thing.

Adam Sockel:

So, when did you discover this was something because eight hours — I have in the not-too-distant past, like in the last few months, I've driven like three hours both ways in a day to go see various bands that I love.

And even that was kind of pushing a little bit when it's like two in the morning and you're still driving, you're like, “Okay, it was a great concert, but boy am I exhausted.” So, when did you guys decide this was something you wanted to do to see these bands that you love so much?

Paige Toon:

So, I think it started with the Wombats who I was just loving their music at the time. I remember writing some books just listening to their second album, and just loving almost every single song on the album, which is quite rare, I think, to find a band you love every song.

And I think it might've been approaching one of my, like a big birthday and I said to my husband, “Oh, they're playing in Amsterdam.” And he just decided that he'd take me there for my birthday, and we'd go and have a mini break and his parents looked after our kids, and that was really fun.

And then yeah, just to sort of go, like we love doing mini breaks in Europe anyway. We sort of trying to get over there and see different cultures. But yeah, it's just such a fun thing to do.

Adam Sockel:

So, is that sort of like eight hours? Is that as far as you've gone, or have you driven further than that to see bands?

Paige Toon:

I think that's probably about the longest that we've ever done. But we've been to Copenhagen and Sweden, and that's just flying there. You have to jump on a plane to go and do that sort of thing.

In fact, I think the first time we went to Amsterdam, we did fly, go and see them. But now, I really love long car journeys. I think it’s since we got a camper van as well. We don't go in the camper van necessarily, like we have done that too.

But when you are in that mindset that you are going and traveling and seeing all these amazing sites and just taking your time to get there, it is just something I've really started enjoying more in later years. Whereas when I was younger, it was all about just getting there. The holiday starts once you're actually there, but now, we'll take the scenic route.

Adam Sockel:

No, I love this so much because where I live and I like to joke, Ohio is like three cities in corn. It's not true, but it's not-not true. I live in Cleveland, Ohio, there's Columbus and Cincinnati, and then the rest of it is just a big giant cornfield.

And then depending on where in the Midwest I want to travel, it's mostly corn. I'm seeing mostly corn for like four hours in any direction. And so, to me, I have to go pretty far to see different examples of culture. I can stop in small cities and things like that.

But for you, I have to imagine like, because the traveling around Europe, everything is so close by comparison for me anyway. I have to imagine you are truly seeing different cultures and different locations in a relatively short timeframe, is that right?

Paige Toon:

That is the most incredible thing, is that you can literally drive for a couple of hours and be in another country and then everyone's — I mean, I just find Europe absolutely astonishing that everywhere you go, you just cross over a boundary and suddenly, everybody's speaking a different language.

You know, architecture's different, the food is different, is just insane to just be driving 100 meters across a border and suddenly, everything is different.

I remember, for our honeymoon, my husband and I, we did this drive. We went and started off in Australia and did a drive across Germany and we touched into Switzerland and went to a few different places, and it is honestly just nuts to cross over a river and suddenly, the houses look different. It is exciting, I love Europe.

Adam Sockel:

I love this so much. So, what is the best concert you would say you guys have seen, let's just say like in recent memory? Asking someone their favorite concert ever is impossible. But in recent memory, what is the best show you guys have traveled to?

Paige Toon:

I think my favorite actually was Catfish and the Bottlemen. That was in Amsterdam, it was just so, so good. The energy, Amsterdam's a great place to go and see a concert. They're like a more toned-down UK but still really go for it. You'll still get a bit of a mosh pit and God knows why I like a mosh pit at my age.

But I'll sort of be right there at the front jumping up and down, and singing along with everyone else. But in the UK, that would've just been a crazy concert. Like for start, they sell out stadiums and we saw them at a venue that was about 5,000 big, so difference between that and 10,000 — 10,000, more than that. It was a really small venue.

So, it was just really exciting to be quite close to the stage and able to see their faces. There's no need for big screens because it was a small place and yeah, they were brilliant. They had a really, really good energy and the crowd was just fantastic because a lot of it is down to that.

No making crowd was very sedate. And so, seeing Wolf Alice was fantastic, but the crowd was sort of quiet, they just wanted to listen to the music, sing along and singing.

Adam Sockel:

It’s so interesting you say that, because I'm thinking back to all these different concerts I've seen in my life. There's one that definitely stands out to me. Here in Ohio, or in Cleveland where I live, there is the Cleveland Orchestra, is one of the better orchestras in the world. It's actually quite world renowned.

And so, they have a beautiful orchestra house where they play. And I saw Ben Folds, who's a piano player, and he had this band called Ben Folds Five, which was very much like an early nineties, mid-nineties band.

But in addition to writing and singing these angsty songs, he is a classically trained piano player to the point where he actually plays with orchestras. I think he actually played with the Sydney Orchestra.

So, he did a show with just him at this orchestra house, and it has always stuck with me. My brother and I went … I was really young at the time, and it was just him basically, he just walked out and he is like, “This is weird, I'm a pop singer and I'm standing in this area.”

But it was very mellow, and people were sitting on couches and stuff, but I still remember it to this day because of the unique setting.

So, have there been any shows for you where it's like — I know sometimes bands will play like Glen Hansard, he's played in cathedrals and churches and stuff. Has there been any settings like that where you've just been gob smacked by where you were seeing this band?

Paige Toon:

Not really. I haven't seen bands in incredible settings, but you just reminded me of — I went to go and see a screening of Romeo and Juliet, the Baz Luhrmann one in this incredible setting, it's called Union Church, and it's inside this church. And they had live gospel singers and that was absolutely stunning.

And it's just reminded me that Wolf Alice did this recording in the same church and just the acoustic and they're so incredible. So, I've never seen a band in that setting, but, oh God, I'd love to.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, there's a place here in Cleveland, it's called Nautica. It's an outdoor venue and it happens to be right on the Cuyahoga River, which is the main river we have that flows into Lake Erie. And there's something very surreal about it because every once in a while, you'll be watching a band there.

And like a giant freighter will go behind them, and so you're watching this band as a huge freighter behind them. And then there's the city behind that. And I do always find myself getting excited about venues and wondering what they're going to look like.

And I mean, I have to imagine, even if you've never seen like you said, an abandoned cathedral or like a specific place, I have to imagine the breadth of places you're seeing bands. Like it has to be pretty cool to see just these different venues, right?

Paige Toon:

Absolutely, yeah. You’ve just reminding me of a theater that is on a clifftop in Cornwall called the Minack Theater, and they do plays and things there, but oh my God, that would be the most incredible place to see a band play.

And just imagining the beautiful, the colors of the sea down in Cornwall are just so stunning, so just the idea of looking out there at this gorgeous setting, I'd love to see that.

Adam Sockel:

So, speaking of setting and all the different places you guys have traveled, some of the questions I like to ask authors when they're talking about things they're passionate about, it's like if/how it inspires their work.

And so, how would you say all these traveling to see these different musicians, has it inspired the way that you write your stories, whether it's different settings or different types of people, would you say that any of this is baked into the way that you write?

Paige Toon:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I love to set my books and I've always set them in different locations around the world.

And so, if ever I'm going to a new place, and I often write it in. Like I remember going to Amsterdam and writing it into my book the minute I saw you just because I'd been there, and I wanted to talk about the canals and have him live in like a studio sort of apartment and stuff like that.

So, definitely, travel for me is a really big thing. I mean, it's a hobby but it's also … I love to incorporate real places into my books.

But to be able to write from experience and to write what you're seeing and imagine that your hero or one of your main characters is actually sitting in that situation and experiencing the same thing, I try to incorporate that as much as I possibly can.

And then I write to music. Like music is really, really important to me too. I know a lot of authors can't write when they're listening to anything, they have to be — whereas I will find playlists and put together playlists that inspire me and have like an emotional playlist that I'm playing when I'm writing like a really sad section or something like that.

Or an upbeat playlist because they've gone to a bar and I'm kind of wanting to imagine the sort of music they might be playing on the stereo. So, I always incorporate music into my books.

Adam Sockel:

Well, so here's an important question about this because like you, I also write to music, and I've had lots of people tell me they do the same. But here's an important question about that; are you able to listen to music that has lyrics while you're writing?

Because I have to do instrumental music or else, I find myself listening to the lyrics and being like, “Oh, I kind of want to write about that instead.” Are you able to disassociate those two things?

Paige Toon:

Sometimes, yeah, I mean, I do listen to lyrics. I do listen to all of my songs. I don't listen to any instrumental, only songs. Sometimes, it will be too invasive, and I might have to switch it off or I might have to switch it to a different type of artist who isn't so strong with their lyrics.

I've got what I called like a chilled writing playlist, which is kind of got things like Birdie and you know, it does have like Taylor Swift and Lana Del Rey, like they write incredible lyrics, but there's just something about some of their music that I can kind of just lose myself and the sound of it.

But then lyrics sometimes really inspire me and in fact, like Only Love Can Hurt Like This, that's inspired by the song by Paloma Faith, the title came from the song. And I just remember that song was on my writing playlist.

I listened to it occasionally and a couple of years ago, I just thought that would make a brilliant title for a book. And it's a sort of book that I write. I write emotional love stories. They’re not like lighthearted rom-coms, they're more sort of layered and have a lot more depth to them.

And so, thought, “Oh yeah, because I write about love hurting in all of my novels, but this one in particular, it definitely filters in.”

Adam Sockel:

Yeah, I would love it if you could dig a little bit deeper in that, because I know exactly what you mean. There are some specific songs for me.

Like there's an Iron & Wine song called upward over the mountain, which is just such a sad song, and he’s singing to his mom basically being like, “Remember all these things that used to happen when I was younger?”

And I keep thinking, I want to write a story that's connected to it, but it's just so brutally sad that no, my mom who listens to this would be like, “Adam, are you okay? What's going on?” But can you kind of dig a little bit deeper into maybe how that song inspired, if not just the title, like what aspects of this story came to be maybe because of listening to it?

Paige Toon:

Sure, I just had to write down that title of that song, so I can go listen to it, because I love songs that make me feel … yeah, so when I came up with the idea for the book, by that point, I'd already had this idea for this kind of this twist, this earth-shattering secret. That is the reason why my two characters can't be apart.

Like I love a forbidden love story or a love story, those are my absolute favorites. And so, in this book Wren meets Anders, there's definitely chemistry there, and she really fancies him, but he's keeping her at arm's length and he's still grieving the loss of his wife four and a half years ago.

And so, there's this whole sort of push and pull thing there. And then you find out the real reason why he's been keeping her at arms' length and that's like this kind of really emotional, heartbreaking, sort of impossible situation that they need to get through.

But with the title, I had this title in my head the whole time and it feeds through with the Wren’s in a situation as my main character, like the opening few pages of her witnessing the moment that her fiancé realizes that he's in love with somebody else. So, that's very, very painful, and really heartbreaking.

And then she goes three months later, we pick up with her again and she's on her way to Indiana to spend time with her dad. And her dad left her mother and Wren when Wren was only about five, six-years-old, because he was having an affair and got this other woman pregnant.

And so, Wren, has a half-sister and a stepmom who live in America, and she hardly sees her dad, maybe just a couple of weeks a year. And so, he doesn't really know her that well and she doesn't really know him.

And so, that relationship, was also a cause of pain now, and the way that she kind of gets to know her family over the course of the novel.

And then my main male character, Anders, he has an older brother Jonas, who is a farmer and he's struggling with his mental health, which is really common with farmers as a profession. And Anders comes home to spend the summer with his brother because he cares so much about his brother.

And then there's this whole sort of secret that Anders has and he's so duty-bound and so honor-bound, that that again has put him in a really, really difficult position and it's all related to love and so yeah, only love can hurt like this.

So, it could not be more a more apt title, I don't think for any of my books.

Adam Sockel:

So, obviously, like you said, there's so much emotion in this story and there's so much going on and there's so much love and hurt and all these different aspects of what happens when you truly, truly care about someone. It's what enables you to be so vulnerable with them.

And I'm curious for you, because I know personally, it's incredible how music can so influence our mood. Like I can be very sad and listen to like a very upbeat song and all of a sudden, I feel a little bit better.

But when I'm writing, I find that if I'm writing something very emotional, it tends to sit on my heart for a long time. So, as someone who is writing love stories that have to have aspects that can be very painful, do these things stick with you the same way that music does? Or are you able to kind close the laptop and say, “Okay, onto something else for the day?”

Paige Toon:

No, they stick with me. I mean, I do have to, to a certain point shut them out when I go back inside. I work from the camper van at the end of my garden, but when I come in, I'm mom again.

But it's hard, sometimes I will feel a bit melancholic because I'm thinking about the story, and I find it hard to go back to the places that I've written about without thinking about the story, and living the story again, and some of the more heartfelt moments that take place there.

Like the book that I've just written, which will come out next year, is set in Cornwall and I've written this, it's like an epic love story that takes place over several years and it's two love stories, and that was so painful, it was so emotional to write.

When you're writing about — it's a love triangle effectively, so someone's going to get hurt. And there's just so many levels of depth to that one that it just absolutely broke my heart. And I'm going back to this place in Cornwall in October, and I know I'm going to find it quite hard to be there because I'm going to be feeling like my characters are there, they feel so real to me.

Like I'm inside their head living and experiencing all of those emotions with them. Like I bawl my eyes out when I'm writing. If I'm writing a sad sort of moment or a sad scene, I'm literally there with dozens of tissues sobbing my heart out and just feeling everything.

But that's what I love about writing, it takes me on this journey, this emotional journey. I guess, it's quite cathartic.

Adam Sockel:

You took the word right out of my mouth. That's the word I always talk about, is catharsis for things. The reason I asked if it's able to stick with you, is for people who may not realize, like you have been basically releasing a book a year since the early 2000s.

Like you are kind of a machine at this point where it's like, okay, you're going to have a book come out and like these stories that you write, like you said, there's so much emotion in them, and I just am so not only impressed, but just curious as a person who struggles with mental health, docks my therapist all the time.

I have to imagine it could be a little challenging to feel not only the emotions of the stories you're writing, but like the pressure to have a new one out every single year. Is that something that you wrestle with, or does it help for you to be able to write and release the story every single year, kind of like clockwork like that?

Paige Toon:

I have to say, like I mean, I love writing. I absolutely, I feel like the luckiest person in the world to be doing the job that I'm doing because I absolutely love getting lost in the story. But the thing is, I tend to write my books very quickly.

I sort of start writing in the autumn, I don't even start writing until three months before my deadline. Like I won't kind of like start writing. So, the rest of the other nine months of the year, I'm doing research, I'm just thinking about it, I'm editing the book that I've just written.

And so, I have to let that book go first before I can start thinking about my next one. And so, I've just written really, really emotional book, which comes out next year, and I'm still in the editing process with that.

And I can't fully engage yet with the book that I'm going to start writing in September because I'm still too caught up in the one before.

But it'll happen this summer, like this summer I just have — now, I just kind of trust in the process, I don't try and write a book over a course of a year because I'd feel depressed, I really would quite blue if I wasn't feeling it.

But I tend to write, and I do a load of research for my novels, and that's when the story will kind of … basically, by the time I come to write it, it's really clear inside my head. And the first 20 to 40,000 every word, I have to think about most of the words that come out. But from 40,000 onwards, like in that last month, it just flies out of me. Like you cannot keep me away from my computer.

It's just about getting it out, and it's all structured already, I know how it's going to end, and you know what's going to happen. And yeah, so I guess kind of writing quick like that, but also, especially like I say with this last one, I've written this really emotional.

I wrote most of it in the last two weeks, and I think it was because I knew that the pain was going to come. And so, I was so immersed, I was waking up at 2:30 in the morning and sitting down working by 3, and sometimes going to bed at midnight for two weeks, and that's just not sustainable over any length of time.

So, I write quickly, but I'm immersed for a short amount of time and then I'm fully in it. And then I hope that that comes off … when the readers are reading it, they can kind of like be fully in it for those couple of days.

Adam Sockel:

Oh my gosh. So, logically, what you just described, is your process makes a lot of sense. And from a logical standpoint, like, okay, and you're doing all this research, you're cleaning up the other book, and then you kind of clear your mind and write the next one.

But as someone who also writes, that is an incredible process to sustain. Like that is truly amazing that you're able to do that every single year. And wow, this isn't even a question, I'm just blown away that you're able to sustain that.

You mentioned like you do a ton of research and then you said like this summer, you'll sort of, I guess flip the switch, kind of stop thinking about this and just sort of look to the new story that you're going to write.

But I have to imagine at least you give yourself some time away from thinking about words all the time. Like you have to take some time off where you're not thinking about one versus the other, or am I totally off base there?

Paige Toon:

Yeah, no, you're right. Because when my kids are at home, I am mom, like I'm really hands-on mom, and I also find that I can't write in the summer. Like my head just feels really foggy. Even go back to school and doing exams and stuff, my brain just feels like cotton wool.

I don't cope well. I only really sort of function in like cooler weather for some weird reason. And so, in the summer, like this summer, I'll just be publicizing Only Love Can Hurt Like This, and then I'll focus on my research because that's something that you don't have to think too hard about.

And then I'll have the six weeks of the school holidays off and I'll just be going on a holiday with my family and my husband and I are actually driving down to Portugal, and that's going to take us my parents are flying the kids down and say, “We're going to just take like four or five days just driving down.”

And I often come up with ideas on long car journeys when all I'm doing, or I come up with ideas when I'm walking, I'm out walking and I'm listening to music. And just to give your brain that head space where you're not doing anything other than just sitting there and letting your mind wander.

And it might just be processing boring things that have happened during the day, but after a while, it will start coming back to ideas and I imagine I'll come up with the idea — if I fully formed the idea sometime this summer; but if I don't, then we're in trouble.

Adam Sockel:

I feel like at this point, you have enough experience that you do know it will come to you. But I'm always curious as to why writers pick a specific genre that they love to write in.

So, clearly, you love writing love stories and books that are filled with emotions and these relationships and things like Only Love Can Hurt Like This. Like what was it that initially drew you to writing these types of stories? What brought you joy in these types of stories?

Paige Toon:

When I was a kid, it's weird, because when I was little, I've always wanted to write. I've always written stories ever since I can remember them. And I remember that the very first job I ever wanted to be was an author. So, it's always been there.

But when I was really young, I used to write stories that had sad endings all the time. Like it was weird, and I think I did it mostly just to sort of shock adults. Because adults would just think it was all going to be light and fairies and stuff like that.

And then the books that I really love reading are romances and love stories. You know, I do like a happy ever after, but I also like it sometimes when it's a bit bittersweet and you don't necessarily get the predictable ending.

And so, those are the books that I love to write and read. And I think for me, falling in love is like the most enjoyable emotion you can have. And I can't fall in love anymore, I'm very happily married with a really nice husband. So, I can't fall in love anymore, like I had all of my crushes when I was a teenager.

But I used to love sort of that feeling of having a crush on someone and sort of feeling butterflies and kind of like sensing chemistry and stuff. And so, now, I get to live vicariously through my characters.

Like, I literally, every year, I'm falling in love with another character, and he doesn't exist, so it's like hey, I'm not doing anything wrong. But it does amaze me when I think about it, like 20 books. And some of them have got more than one male love interest, who, it really could have gone either way.

Certainly, like the book that comes out next year, there are two very, very strong male love interests, and I just fell completely head over heels of both of them. So, it's super fun getting to live vicariously.

But I guess if I wanted to feel terrified out of my brain, then I'd be writing thrillers. But what I really love to feel are all the emotions that come with falling in love and the hurt that comes with it, the way you sort of ache. And so, I love to capture those emotions through my writing.

Adam Sockel:

I feel like I'm also gaining more insight into why you write something so quickly and then spend the rest of the year decompressing, editing, thinking about the next thing. Because it's almost like (this is going to be a sad way of saying it, so I'm sorry) you're breaking up with these characters after you've written the-

Paige Toon:

But you're obviously right. Absolutely, it's actually quite hard to let them go. And there have been times, like I wrote a book called Five Years from Now which actually my publisher Penguin in America have taken it on some of my backlist titles now. So, my books are available in America now, which is cool.

But Five Years from Now, like that was the most heartbreaking love story that I've ever written and probably will ever write. It is sort of told over so many years, and it's just, ugh, I don't want to ruin just in case anyone goes on to read it.

But it absolutely broke my heart and I found it very, very hard to write the next book. It took a long time before I was ready to start writing the next book. And that was one of the harder books that I have written because I was still so caught up in the characters from Five Years from Now.

So, I'm slightly worried that's going to happen with the book that I need to write.

Adam Sockel:

Oh man.

Paige Toon:

The one I've just finished, I think is my favorite book that I've ever written, and I'm so invested in them, so I have got to shut the door on them, in like a month or so when I finish my edits and then just focus on the next one, because I'll fall in love with them too, for sure.

Adam Sockel:

That's so funny. So, I always love to end our conversations by having the author give kind of a recommendation of any kind. It can be a book recommendation. I've had people recommend clothing that they like, I've had people recommend TV shows. I've had people recommend protein powder that they like to use.

It can be anything, just something that you want to recommend that you really love, that you think more people should know about.

Paige Toon:

Oh, that's a really good question. There are so many things that I would like to recommend. Do you know what, I'm going to recommend an actress.

Adam Sockel:

Yeah.

Paige Toon:

There's this actress called Lily Mae, I think is her name. Oh, oh actually, it might be Isabel May and she is in Yellowstone, the earlier one, I think it's 1986. This is not a very good recommendation, is it? I'm not even sure I've got her name right.

I remember watching this series of Yellowstone, and she is an actress who feels it all. And that's kind of like, that's the tagline I use for my books; feel it all because I'm living along with my characters and feeling all of the emotions and watching her.

So, one day my dream is have a book out that gets turned into film, and have her star in it. Because I think she'd be a really great fit. So, yeah, I'm recommending Yellowstone 1986 and this character in particular.

Adam Sockel:

I love that, I'm going to make you do one more. What is an album by a band that you really loved this year or so? Just to bring us full circle, what's the music that you really liked this year?

Paige Toon:

I would definitely recommend Wolf Alice's last one, I really, really love their new album. And the other one that I really, really love is Taylor Swift's latest one. And she writes the most incredible lyrics and lyrics that really make me feel, and one of her songs, Tis The Damn Season actually is part of the inspiration for the book I've just written.

Adam Sockel:

Amazing. Well, much like you, my niece is traveling with my sister to go see Taylor Swift in a couple weeks. So, they're doing a little journey just like you did. So, I'm sure I will get many, many text messages about it.

This was so much fun. Paige, thank you so much for joining me today.

Paige Toon:

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's been really great to chat to you.

[Music Playing]

Adam Sockel:

Passions & Prologues is proud to be an Evergreen podcast and was created by Adam Sockel. It was produced by Adam Sockel and Sean Rule-Hoffman. And if you are interested in this podcast and any other Evergreen podcast, you can go to evergreenpodcasts.com to discover all the different stories we have to tell.