Jerry Tipton: “You could just walk into the Kentucky coach’s office.”

Jerry Tipton 2 edited transcript

PBA_Jerry Tipton

Speakers: Todd Jones & Jerry Tipton

Todd Jones (00:00):

Jerry, welcome back to Press Box Access. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

Jerry Tipton (00:06):

Yeah. It seems like only yesterday I was with you.

Todd Jones (00:10):

Yeah, it seems that way. Actually, a couple years ago, we had a great time taping an episode for this show in the summer of 2022, shortly after your retirement. And now, here you are, back in our tavern. Do I owe you beers or something? I thought I paid that last round.

Jerry Tipton (00:27):

Well, I think a glass of wine and we're even.

Todd Jones (00:31):

Oh, a glass of wine. I forgot you're a little artier than I am. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You don't owe me anything.

Todd Jones (00:39):

Actually, I owe you a lot, Jerry. Since we first met 38 years ago in 1986, think about that. I was just a kid at the Kentucky Kernel, the student newspaper at the University of Kentucky where I graduated from.

Todd Jones (00:52):

And you were an important mentor to me then, and have been a great friend ever since.

Todd Jones (00:57):

And I'm thrilled to have you back on the show, especially to talk about your new book, Deja Blue: A Sportswriter Reflects on 41 Seasons of Kentucky Basketball. I think it's coming out in April. Tell us a little bit about it.

Jerry Tipton (01:11):

Well, it was something that I thought about a little, a memoir. And there was a lot of anxiety because I'd never written a book, and it's a lot longer, obviously, than a newspaper story, and I would have some anxiety with a newspaper story, but this was like a whole new world and can I do this?

Jerry Tipton (01:38):

And then I thought, “Well, 41 years, there's a lot of memories and so, okay, I think I can do it.” Then the anxiety was, “Well, then how do I do it? How do I organize it?” And-

Todd Jones (01:52):

Then it's work.

Jerry Tipton (01:54):

Yeah. I'm not kidding about anxiety, and I won't say sleepless nights, but interrupted sleep as I checked-

Todd Jones (02:02):

Wait a minute. This is how you spend retirement, battling anxiety. Come on, Jerry.

Jerry Tipton (02:05):

For this one thing, yes. And the rest of it has been fairly calm. And it was time. I felt very lucky to be covering ... I think any reporter wants to cover something that the readers or the listeners or the viewers are really interested in.

Jerry Tipton (02:23):

And as you know, Kentucky fans are interested 365 days a year, and 366 this year, I suppose,

Todd Jones (02:36):

That's right. They get an extra day of passion.

Jerry Tipton (02:37):

Right, absolutely.

Jerry Tipton (03:39):

And I mean, as you know, Kentucky basketball, there's a lot of events. I mean, it's seldom boring, even every double dribble is a possible controversy, so you were always engaged.

Jerry Tipton (04:00):

And it was fun to revisit that in a way. I felt lucky to be covering something like that the whole time. And it was fun in a way and challenging to kind of go back over that and try-

Todd Jones (04:16):

Sort through just, yeah, think about it, 1,200 games. I mean, three national championship teams, nine Final Fours, six coaches from Joe Hall to John Calapari. By the way, those coaches, do you have their heads mounted above your fireplace at home?

Jerry Tipton (04:31):

That's a straight line if I ever heard one, but I'm just going to pass on that, but yeah. The good thing about it is that every time there's a coaching change, it's almost like starting a new beat. So, it's kind of refreshing in a way to a coaching change.

Jerry Tipton (04:51):

I hated the process though of finding the coach, and there's a lot of tension and pressure, but once a new coach was named then it's like you're starting over and it's a refreshing situation.

Todd Jones (05:06):

Well, you're able to look back on your career in a refreshing way, now, two years removed.

But when you think about covering that, do you look at it any differently now than when you were in the heat of the day-to-day journalistic battle of trying to cover something as big as Kentucky basketball?

Jerry Tipton (05:28):

Well, the best thing about it was every so often, you felt like you were witnessing history. And like the cliche goes, you're writing the first draft of history, and that was nice.

Jerry Tipton (05:41):

But I felt like I had a good long run, 41 seasons, and Ben Roberts is the new beat person. He's in his second season, and he does a really good job. And so, that makes me feel good, and we get along. So, that's helpful too, I think.

Jerry Tipton (06:02):

And every once in a while, he might say something, "I'm thinking about working on this story." And there might be a moment of envy, like, "Ooh, that's an interesting idea, that would be fun to try to put together a story on."

Jerry Tipton (06:17):

But for the most part, for almost totally, I had a good long run. I'm very lucky, I thought, and grateful to be covering something like Kentucky. So, all good.

Todd Jones (06:54):

Your job really was to answer the questions of people who didn't get to go there, and yet sometimes they didn't always agree with you, right, Jerry?

Jerry Tipton (07:04):

Yes. I mean, somehow I got a reputation for asking hard questions. And I did a chapter on that in the memoir.

Jerry Tipton (07:14):

And I wasn't trying to ask “hard questions” quote unquote, I was just trying to ask good questions. And it wasn't unusual for me to kind of put myself or try to, in the mind of the reader.

Jerry Tipton (07:28):

And you're hearing, you're interviewing and so on, and also thinking about the story. And you would think, "Well, if I'm reading this, I'd want to know X." And so, then I would ... that's why. That was the motivation. It wasn't to try to press somebody into a corner.

Todd Jones (07:51):

Was there a story that touched a nerve more than any because you asked that hard question?

Jerry Tipton (07:58):

Well, I know the most famous one was the one with John Calipari. It was in October. And I think I was asking about they had a player who wasn't eligible yet.

Jerry Tipton (08:15):

And so, the question I asked was, would this be like — I think John Wall had to sit out two games, and then he was fine. Or is it more like Enes Kanter, he had to sit out the whole season and then went turn pro. So, he never played for Kentucky.

Jerry Tipton (08:35):

So, I asked, "Which one is the example you think this one's going to follow?" Well, John Calipari, maybe he didn't like the idea of bringing up past players who had eligibility issues.

Jerry Tipton (08:50):

So, he basically scolded me. He had a scolding tone to his voice and told me I had no right to ask that question, was the gist of what he was saying.

Jerry Tipton (09:01):

And all I said was, "Well, I have every right to ask the question. You don't have to answer, but I have the right to ask the question. After all, this is media day, not coaches day." That was a memorable thing that kind of became associated with me.

Todd Jones (09:26):

You should have trademarked it. It's media day, just kind of like Pat Riley did with Three-Peat.

Jerry Tipton (09:30):

Well, he had done that a few years earlier in a media day where he had told me I didn't have the right to ask that question. And so, that stuck in my mind. And so, when it happened again, I had kind of thought it through, and that was going to be the punchline.

Todd Jones (09:50):

He must have thought you were like employed by Pravda.

Jerry Tipton (09:53):

I was just, again I'm just trying to cover, I'm thinking of the reader and trying to write a good story. That was the gist of it. It wasn't to pin somebody into a corner.

Jerry Tipton (10:05):

But the coaches have a different agenda than the media does. And that's become more and more apparent over time, over my time.

Todd Jones (10:18):

How has that changed, Jerry? How did you generally get along with the coaches, say back to Joe Hall and then through Eddie Sutton, and Rick Pitino, and on Tubby and on and on, how did that change?

Todd Jones (10:29):

They knew what your job was but again, they had the leverage of the fan base behind them.

Jerry Tipton (10:39):

Right. And they could withdraw access or not. They had ways of getting back at you.

Jerry Tipton (10:48):

And back in the day with Joe B. and Eddie Sutton, especially back in the '80s, the media was more a part of the program. You could go to every practice or almost every practice you wanted to.

Jerry Tipton (11:06):

And with Joe B. and I think with Eddie some, but definitely with Joe B., if they were playing an afternoon game on the road, I would go with the team on the team plane and then get back late afternoon.

Jerry Tipton (11:19):

And then I had plenty of time to go to the office and write my stories. The deadlines were a lot better back then, I would say. It was like 10:00 at night, something like that.

Jerry Tipton (11:32):

So, I had plenty of time to get done. Now, nowadays, and more recently, you're almost on a constant deadline, so there was no time to get on a plane and fly back before you did your story. You had more access, you got to know each other better back then.

Jerry Tipton (11:54):

In my latter years, it became more of a you only got the coach when he wanted you to have him, when he had something he wanted to get across, that he had an agenda, it seemed like, rather.

Todd Jones (12:09):

Yeah. I remember even as a student reporter in the '80s one time I called Dale Brown's office and he answered the phone and he talked to me. And I remember just being in awe of the fact that wait a minute, we can just walk into Rupp Arena and watch practice.

Todd Jones (12:26):

Again, growing up as a kid who followed Kentucky basketball, all of a sudden you're there. And that taught me a lot about how to be a journalist and not a fan. And that access was really like eye opening to me. How did that access help you do your job then?

Jerry Tipton (12:45):

Well, again, I think it helped in the sense of getting to know each other. And so, hopefully you could get across that you were just trying to do your job. You weren't against Kentucky or trying to prevent the team from winning.

Jerry Tipton (13:00):

I remember one Thanksgiving when Eddie Sutton was coach, they practiced three times that day, and I went-

Todd Jones (13:09):

Three? Happy Thanksgiving, boys.

Jerry Tipton (13:12):

And I went to all three because I wasn't married then. I didn't have family in Lexington, so I had nothing to do. I went-

Todd Jones (13:21):

That's a sad indictment, Jerry. I don't know if it's a tribute to your journalistic tenacity or a sad indictment on your life.

Jerry Tipton (13:28):

You make a good point. But I went to all three, and maybe you could get across that you were interested, that you were trying to do a good job. Maybe that would be helpful in a sense.

Todd Jones (13:43):

Well, you mentioned Eddie, and Eddie was the coach when I was there as a student reporter. And when I think about the passion of the fans and how important it is to the state of Kentucky, I think about my senior year in the spring of '88 when the Emory package opened, and Chris Mills the recruit, all of a sudden, it's alleged that he had money sent to him. And this huge NCAA scandal breaks out.

Todd Jones (14:11):

You're the beat reporter, you're the basketball reporter, and now, you've got this full on alarm fire breaking out. What was that like to cover a scandal like that when you're really, "I'm here to cover basketball," but all of a sudden, this huge news happened?

Jerry Tipton (14:27):

Well, it was not much fun, and there was a lot of pressure because you could get scooped and so on. And people are not in a good mood. And so, there's not that collegiality, if that's the right word, that there could be in better times.

Jerry Tipton (14:49):

And so, the one thing I remember about that is Eddie Sutton was available kind of every day. And of course, they were pointed questions, quote unquote “hard questions” to ask. And you did.

Jerry Tipton (15:04):

And there were several away games that I didn't go to because the thought was that something might break with that story and I'd better be here. I better be working on that rather than basketball.

Jerry Tipton (15:20):

And so, the paper sent other people to the away games. I went to some, but there were some I missed. It was just a different world that-

Todd Jones (15:32):

What was Eddie like to deal with during that time?

Jerry Tipton (15:35):

He was remarkably good. Is that the way I remember it was, was he wasn't happy. Obviously, no one's happy in that situation, but I don't remember him taking it out on the media. I don't remember it.

Jerry Tipton (15:49):

And he seemed to acknowledge that you had to ask about it and he had to respond to it. And so, we played that game, so to speak.

Todd Jones (16:03):

Well, speaking of response, I was there in Memorial Coliseum in the hallway. I had just graduated. A story had just broken in the LA Daily News about the package. And Eddie is in his office, he's working on his first response to the story.

Todd Jones (16:22):

And I happened to be in the hallway, and I was hanging out with Mike Embry from the Associated Press, and Brian Malloy from UPI, and you could see into Eddie's office, he's back there. And he had some, I think it was like a booster guy and the big cowboy hat on. And he's back there. And his secretary said he's going to have a statement a little bit.

Todd Jones (16:46):

And at one point while we were waiting in the hallway, Eddie come walking out to use the restroom down the hall. And when he came back, he said to me, and Mike, and Brian, "Do any of you boys have a dictionary? I need to look up the word absolve."

Jerry Tipton (17:03):

That's a wonderful story. And that kind of when you were telling that, I was thinking that back in the day, you could walk into the coaches' offices and if he was free, you could just walk in.

Todd Jones (17:22):

Yeah, exactly.

Jerry Tipton (17:23):

It's much more informal. Now, it's much more structured and you only get the coach in certain situations in certain ways, for the most part.

Todd Jones (17:34):

Yeah. I also remember Eddie showing up in practice in that full fur length coat.

Jerry Tipton (17:40):

He was like against the eight ball almost from the beginning. And I remember one of the ... and as you know, Todd, the Kentucky fans, it's not hard to displease them. And he didn't move soon enough, as I recall. He didn't have a home, you know what I mean? He was unsettled and that [crosstalk 00:18:05].

Todd Jones (18:04):

So, when he first took the job, you're talking about moving from Arkansas.

Jerry Tipton (18:08):

Right. And so, the fans complained about that. And it's almost always something that they're not happy about.

Todd Jones (18:16):

Well, one thing that didn't change is at that time, the attention was such that this was only a couple years after the Harold Leader, and the Pulitzer, and the investigation, and I remember there was a bomb threat on the newspaper office. And so, the passion was definitely there.

Todd Jones (18:31):

So, when Eddie was looking to absolve himself, it was totally understandable.

Jerry Tipton (18:37):

Yeah. That it was also, during that Pulitzer Prize period, what was said to be a bullet hole in one of the windows.

Todd Jones (18:45):

Really?

Jerry Tipton (18:47):

Now, I don't know if it really was a bullet hole or not. I don't know. But there was a hole that, you could imagine about the size of a bullet going through the window.

Jerry Tipton (18:57):

When I think about today, where scary where there's mass shootings and all that stuff, that would be interesting to see how that would play out nowadays.

Todd Jones (19:13):

Well, Eddie took the bullet and was moved aside. Dwane Casey really took the bullet and got the blame. And then scandal leads to NCAA sanctions.

Todd Jones (19:26):

And then the third coach you covered, comes in Rick Pitino who resurrected what he called the Roman Empire, and the famous Sports Illustrated cover, Kentucky Shame. And made all things right.

Todd Jones (19:39):

But really, he almost didn't get hired because of your great reporting work. I know in the spring of ‘89, when Rick was in town to interview, you had dug up an NCAA case file about his time as an assistant at Hawaii when they committed some NCAA investigations. And then you had to go approach him at dinner or something?

Jerry Tipton (20:05):

Right, at the Coach House, kind of a famous restaurant in Lexington. And his first coaching job, I think as an assistant was at Hawaii. And somehow, I found out that there was NCAA trouble and that he was part of it.

Jerry Tipton (20:25):

So, I got in touch with the University of Hawaii, and they sent me documents, and I was hoping that it was next to nothing and we just kind of move on. Well, I read it and like, "Oh, no, I mean, this is not a little thing." There were multiple violations alleged and so on. So, obviously you have ...

Jerry Tipton (20:50):

And I wasn't going to do anything with it until he became a serious candidate. And so, I don't know if that's the right thing or not, but I put it in my desk hoping I wouldn't have to see those documents again.

Jerry Tipton (21:05):

But then he becomes a serious candidate, and he's coming in to interview. So, I felt like, "Okay, I've got to do this." And I did, I got him at a restaurant, and I found out the AD, Cliff ... no-

Todd Jones (21:22):

C. M. Newton.

Jerry Tipton (21:23):

C. M. Newton was going to be taking him to dinner. So, I got them outside, not in the restaurant itself, but in the area just outside and asked him about it and asked C. M. And then did the story. And I write about it in the memoir. And they decided to look past it.

Jerry Tipton (21:48):

And that first year, I remember that was when you asked about were there things you learned? I'd forgotten in that story that I talked to the University of Hawaii coach, and he kind of explained it was the first job. And he didn't excuse it, but he kind of said you just look on past it, these things happen. And so, anyway, that's what happened. And I wrote about it.

Jerry Tipton (22:22):

And as you know, that first Pitino year was amazing. It was for me, the most unusual Kentucky season in my 41, because it was more about fun, and the fans loved the style of play. Running, shooting threes, pressing constant action. And the fans loved it, I loved it.

Jerry Tipton (22:48):

And there was not that over that environment where Kentucky had to show its superiority constantly. They were preeminent, and you better not forget it. That was kind of the general way I thought of the atmosphere.

Jerry Tipton (23:05):

But that year, it was just about fun. We have a team, and they finished 14 and 14, which might-

Todd Jones (23:14):

That's incredible. Think about it, they lost 14 games and the people were having fun.

Jerry Tipton (23:18):

Yeah. They had just fun. And 14 and 14 is like a catastrophe usually.

Todd Jones (23:23):

Oh, yeah, right. Well, one loss is a catastrophe. Well, 14 of them-

Jerry Tipton (23:29):

Absolutely. But that year, it was fun. And I enjoyed it too in a sense that I fed off that fan enjoyment.

Todd Jones (23:44):

Well, they were shooting threes and running, and they had some Kentucky natives on the team. And again, Pitino brought all this to Lexington.

Todd Jones (23:53):

What was he like for you to cover that first year, especially in light of the fact that you had that meeting at the restaurant when he was still a candidate?

Jerry Tipton (24:02):

Yeah. I don't remember any serious negativity after that. I would guess he didn't like the story, but he got the job and I didn't keep bringing up the story again and again.

Jerry Tipton (24:17):

We wrote it, it was news and it was dealt with, I guess, and okay, move on. I wasn't trying to prevent anyone from being hired. It was just a news event. And so, it was news.

Jerry Tipton (24:55):

And I mean, I didn't dwell on it, wrote the story, and then moved on looking for the next story.

Todd Jones (25:03):

Well, he handled it professionally and not personally, sounds like, and-

Jerry Tipton (25:06):

I don't know what-

Todd Jones (25:07):

That's really all you need as a reporter. You're not looking to make friends, you're just trying to have a working relationship with somebody you got to cover on a day-to-day basis.

Jerry Tipton (25:16):

Yeah. True or false was what more I was concerned with, not helpful or unhelpful. That was not my agenda. I mean, if a story is helpful, good, it's fine. Either way, helpful or unhelpful, that's not a consideration.

Todd Jones (26:07):

Why do you think that team of Pelphrey Feldhaus, Farmer, Woods, Mashburn, why were they so beloved then and now?

Jerry Tipton (26:16):

Well, as you mentioned, several of them are from Kentucky, and that's something that enshrines a player, especially if he's productive as a player, then he becomes an automatic fan favorite.

Jerry Tipton (26:29):

But I think the sweep of their time going from NCAA probation, and I remember going into '89, '90 Cawood Ledford, the iconic radio play-by-play guy said he didn't think they'd win 10 games. I think he said he thought they'd win about eight games, which would...

Jerry Tipton (26:50):

And then so 14 looked really good. I think that was maybe one factor that contributed to 14 and 14 being pretty good. But just that sweep of going from that.

Jerry Tipton (27:06):

Then the next year, if I remember right, they had the best record in the SEC, but they were not eligible to win the championship. So, they didn't win it.

Jerry Tipton (27:16):

And then the next year they have that great team and win. I think they won the SEC and go to the region finals and lose to Christian Laettner in maybe what some people think was the most riveting college basketball game in history.

Jerry Tipton (27:35):

So, it's just the sweep there of tremendous-

Todd Jones (27:43):

Like the Shakespearean drama of even how it ended-

Jerry Tipton (27:47):

Yeah. Tremendous lows but-

Todd Jones (27:48):

It ended in disappointment, but it ended in maybe the greatest, most unforgettable way for college basketball fans.

Jerry Tipton (27:56):

Yeah. I mean, even the most nonchalant fan, which I'm not sure Kentucky has any of those, would've been riveted by that Laettner game.

Jerry Tipton (28:06):

It was just such a great game, and it was almost the perfect explanation point on those Kentucky players, except for losing, of course, for their time going, what they accomplished over their college careers.

Todd Jones (28:26):

We touched on the Laettner game in your previous visit, and I'm still endlessly fascinated by that game because I was not there. You were in the spectrum in Philadelphia.

Todd Jones (28:35):

What was the atmosphere like during the game, and then when Laettner makes the shot?

Jerry Tipton (28:51):

Well, I did a separate chapter in the memoir, just on the Laettner game. And of course, I think Duke was number one and a defending champ.

Jerry Tipton (29:03):

And so, they were sort of, if you would allow the possibility of a team supplanting Kentucky as preeminent, Duke had it. So, you would add that to a region final, going to the Final Four. And I remember, I think the statue of Rocky Balboa in Philadelphia.

Jerry Tipton (29:30):

And so, it just added up to this it was too much for me. It was just like trying to comprehend this. And I always tried to not get caught up emotionally, but it was very hard not to, if not impossible in that game, just because of just the storyline.

Jerry Tipton (29:54):

And of course, like we said a moment ago, just the three-year buildup to this moment, which I've second guessed that since then about I wish I had-

Todd Jones (30:07):

Yeah, you mentioned that before, that you look at it like, "Maybe I didn't comprehend it as being as historic as it was."

Jerry Tipton (30:15):

I just treated it as this magnificent game with the Final Four in line, decided by a last second shot by a guy that didn't miss a shot the whole game. And just was totally blown away. Maybe I said that on our earlier podcast, just blown away by it, just feeling inadequate. My insecurity was showing.

Todd Jones (30:41):

Your anxiety, once again, it always gets back to anxiety, Jerry.

Jerry Tipton (30:44):

What can I say? That's one of my faults, I guess. But it was-

Todd Jones (30:49):

Well, you said it's about witnessing history sometimes. And that was definitely a moment that was historic. But there have been other moments too, and I think about the guy that followed Pitino, Tubby Smith.

Todd Jones (31:02):

Tubby comes into Kentucky as the first black head coach of the Wildcats. And Kentucky had had this history and race had been such a big issue when you think about the 1966 NCAA championship game when Adolf Rupp was the coach, and it was all white Kentucky losing to an all black starting lineup, Texas Western.

Todd Jones (31:23):

So, there was all this context and history. How was that handled? How was the topic of race handled when Tubby took the head coaching position at Kentucky?

Jerry Tipton (31:35):

I don't remember it being a big issue. I don't know. That's another thing that could be second guessed. I don't remember doing a story per se on that.

Jerry Tipton (31:48):

He had been an assistant for Rick Pitino. So, there was a logic to it. He knew Kentucky. He had some familiarity with Kentucky basketball, and he had done a good job as a head coach, he was at Georgia at the time that Kentucky hired him.

Jerry Tipton (32:07):

So, it added up and made sense and race was obvious. So, I don't remember it being a big issue. And I don't know.

Jerry Tipton (32:21):

I remember when they did win it in '97, '98, his first year, the national championship, it was brought up that, "Well, he won it with players that were trained by Pitino." And so-

Todd Jones (32:39):

That's always the problem that the guy who inherits a team doesn't seem to get the credit for taking that team to a championship.

Jerry Tipton (32:46):

And you could wonder if race was a factor in that because I remember I get into that somewhat in the memoir also. He didn't make an issue of it that I remember. And I just thought he thought of him as a gentleman and a good coach who was doing a good job.

Todd Jones (33:28):

Sometimes you get a guy who's the right guy at the right time, and it seemed like Tubby fit that for a while until people said, "Oh, he doesn't play fast enough. He plays Tubby ball. "

Jerry Tipton (33:38):

Well, there's always something I think especially when the fans are so into it. I've always thought, maybe I said this before, that coaches are like toys, that after a certain amount of time, the fans want a new toy to play with.

Todd Jones (33:58):

Pete Gillen, the old Xavier coach once told me that coaches should leave after about seven years. That's kind of the shelf life. And then people just get tired of you even if you're winning. So, maybe that's true sometimes.

Jerry Tipton (34:12):

Well, Tubby was here 10 years, I believe that's right. And did a great job and-

Todd Jones (34:23):

Did you like covering Tubby?

Jerry Tipton (34:25):

Yeah. I thought he was a gentleman and I felt like you could have a professional relationship with him. And I could approach him and I didn't have to just stick with just the press conference.

Jerry Tipton (34:40):

There were times that yeah, I'd like to get him aside and I could ask him a question after he left the podium, stuff like that. And I tried not to abuse it, but that’s when like-

Todd Jones (34:52):

Right. There are times when you feel like it's the right time for that.

Jerry Tipton (34:55):

Maybe there was a question or two that I didn't want everyone to hear, something like that. And you felt like you could do that. You felt like if he could, he would. It wasn't like his priority outweighed yours, so don't even approach me.

Todd Jones (35:17):

Yeah. Tubby struck me from afar as not having an agenda that some coaches seem to have as much. I mean, there's a built-in agenda when you're the Kentucky coach, or a high state football, or Alabama football, or any big giant program. But it seemed like he wasn't pushing himself out there all the time.

Jerry Tipton (35:36):

Well, the way I thought of it was that the other person mattered too. It wasn't just the coach. It wasn't just Tubby that had an agenda, that had things he had to do, blah, blah, blah. The other person did too. And so, if he could be helpful with the other person, then he would.

Jerry Tipton (35:57):

And I don't know how rare a quality that is in coaching, but I think it's a nice thing. And I've interacted with other coaches where you felt like it wasn't just about the coach.

Todd Jones (36:15):

Right. Well, let's talk about some other coaches because not only Kentucky basketball, but you saw quite a list of characters during your time that came through the SEC. Guys like Hugh Durham, Dale Brown, who I mentioned, Wimp Sanderson at Alabama. I remember Wimp had the plaid jackets.

Jerry Tipton (36:35):

Do you have some favorites opposing coaches that you encountered over the years that come to mind in any anecdotes or encounters with them that stick out?

Jerry Tipton (38:02):

Hugh Durham had a sense of humor and he kind of had a lighthearted approach to it. And I remember he coined the phrase Blue Mist and-

Todd Jones (38:14):

Blue Mist, like the mist in the air?

Jerry Tipton (38:16):

A Blue Mist in the air, especially in Rupp Arena. And this mist could affect people like those people in striped shirts that make calls during a game.

Jerry Tipton (38:27):

And the way he said it was that there was a game at Rupp, and if the ball went out-of-bounds and it was George's ball, the referee would just make the call, Georgia ball.

Jerry Tipton (38:46):

But if the ball went out-of-bounds and it was Kentucky's ball, the referee would get really excited and get wound up. Whoa, really be theatrical in making that call.

Todd Jones (39:00):

Well, didn't he once say that Don Rutledge, the SEC ref, the ball went out-of-bounds and he and Don pointed down the other end of the court and said, "Our ball."

Jerry Tipton (39:10):

I don't remember that, but I remember him ... I don't think this was at Georgia, although it may have been when he was Georgia coach, that a referee asked him ... he didn't say who it was. The referees wanted a ticket for his mistress and so, Durham ...

Jerry Tipton (39:32):

Now, I don't know if this is true, true, but this is the story he told. And so, they got the ref a ticket for his mistress.

Jerry Tipton (39:39):

So, during the game, Hugh is complaining about calls, and the referee goes over to him and objects to him questioning his integrity. And that was funny. I don't know if that was literally true or just a nice way to make a point.

Todd Jones (40:02):

Oh, that's great. That's great. Well, Dale Brown was another guy. He was funny, but he also got under the skin of Kentucky fans. And he stuck it to Kentucky sometimes in that game where they beat Eddie Sutton's first team, a really good team in the regional final.

Todd Jones (40:18):

Dale was quite a character too, right?

Jerry Tipton (40:21):

Yeah. He was really into it, you know what I mean? I think, my guess is, well, one, he had success against Kentucky. Two, he enjoyed having success against Kentucky.

Jerry Tipton (40:31):

And three, he really tried, you could tell he was into it wanting to beat Kentucky, which none of that goes over well with the fans. And he did a great job at LSU.

Todd Jones (40:48):

At LSU, yeah. He kind of pointed to Kentucky as that's the standard. That's what we have to achieve.

Jerry Tipton (40:56):

And he had moments of achievement. I think they beat Kentucky, I want to say like 74 to 51, something like that in Rupp. I don't know if it is, but it might be the worst loss Kentucky's ever had in Rupp Arena.

Todd Jones (41:11):

Actually, was there for that game. We're bringing up all kinds of negativity.

Jerry Tipton (41:16):

Well, then there's also that first year, I believe this is right with Pitino, they beat LSU and LSU had Shaquille O'Neal and Stanley Roberts, and Chris Jackson.

Jerry Tipton (41:31):

I mean, they were National championship good. They didn't win it, but they were good enough to win it. And Kentucky with this makeshift team beats them.

Todd Jones (41:45):

Right. That was like a huge landmark in the comeback of Kentucky program. You were also there that night that LSU had a 31-point lead on Kentucky with 17 minutes to go.

Todd Jones (42:11):

Their team brained down threes and wipe out a 31-point deficit to beat LSU at LSU.

Jerry Tipton (42:17):

Well, that game was in, as I remember, February, right around Mardi Gras time, and it was dubbed the Mardi Gras Miracle.

Jerry Tipton (42:23):

And I remember that year, and I think I get into this in the memoir, that year with the Kentucky Media, we got into this thing where if you thought the game was over, you'd lifted your hand and put it down like, "Okay, close the book, it's over."

Jerry Tipton (42:41):

And everybody else, when LSU was up 31 put their hands down, the game was over. I didn't.

Todd Jones (42:50):

Oh, you did not. Let the record show.

Jerry Tipton (42:52):

Not because I'm smarter or anything, I just thought like you said, with the three-point goal, and Kentucky shot a lot of threes, they happened to make a bunch, all of a sudden it's going to be game on. And LSU probably will feel pressure since they had the big lead. Is it going to get away?

Jerry Tipton (43:11):

And Pitino sat quietly on the bench. It looked like his body language said he'd given up, and-

Todd Jones (43:22):

Oh, he would never admit that.

Jerry Tipton (43:24):

No, probably not. But the players were still into it, led by, as I recall Travis Ford. He was very animated in huddles on the court. And lo and behold, they make a bunch of threes, get back in the game, and then they ended up winning it.

Jerry Tipton (43:39):

And yeah, I believe, I don't know if it's the largest comeback ever on the road, or maybe largest comeback ever from a second half deficit, but yeah, it was historic for sure.

Todd Jones (43:56):

How challenging was that on deadline as a newspaper reporter?

Jerry Tipton (44:38):

Back then, I don't remember the deadline being that pressing. I may be wrong, but I don't remember it being that bad and I mean, it was also, of course, very memorable. And it was exciting. And I felt good about not putting my hand down. So, it was a fairly pleasurable experience.

Todd Jones (45:00):

That's great. Let the Kentucky fans know that Jerry Tipton did not put his hand down that day.

Todd Jones (45:38):

Well, you're there for the Mardi Gras Miracle and you're talking about other coaches in the SEC, like Dale Brown of LSU, Hugh Durham. And my point is, you saw these other great players and you also saw so many great Kentucky players.

Todd Jones (45:55):

So, your beat really kind of grew and it grew into this thing called Sunday notes. And I know you write about it in your memoir, Deja Blue.

Todd Jones (46:04):

Sunday notes were a thing that the Boston Globe was known for back in the '70s and '80s, and then all of a sudden you started doing it in the Harold Leader, and you were doing these long in-depth Sunday notes, even in the off season, which really, to me, pointed out the insatiable hunger of Kentucky fans.

Todd Jones (46:23):

How did that whole thing of Sunday notes develop for you and what did it mean for you as a journalist to do something besides just the daily news?

Jerry Tipton (46:33):

Well, I should point out, growing up, I was a Celtic fan, so I was kind of, if I had access to the Boston Globe, that was a good thing. God, I wanted to read about the Celtics.

Jerry Tipton (46:45):

And so, I noticed the notes columns and various sports, and I liked them. They were entertaining and different from stories, quote unquote, but I enjoyed it.

Jerry Tipton (46:57):

And then traveling covering Kentucky back then, we flew to most away games. And on weekend games, I'd be flying through Atlanta, and the Atlanta paper on Sunday had notes columns. So, I thought ...

Jerry Tipton (47:11):

And there was always a frustration then. You were limited the space for the story to the space available in the paper.

Todd Jones (47:21):

Yeah. There was no internet. You couldn't just put it out there.

Jerry Tipton (47:25):

So, you were always having leftover stuff that you could maybe get in another story, a future story. But it was like day after day leftover stuff. And I thought a Sunday notebook would be a place to use that.

Jerry Tipton (47:41):

And the editors did not warm up to it immediately. They just thought it was taking up space. And I think also, they hadn't done that in Lexington, so it was something new and different. And so, there was some hesitancy.

Jerry Tipton (47:59):

But they allowed it. And it really helped me continue because it was a way to ease that frustration of stuff that you couldn't get in the regular story.

Jerry Tipton (48:16):

Plus, it was kind of an avenue to have enterprise and kind of extend something that you thought could be developed into an interesting story, but not maybe a daily story.

Jerry Tipton (48:31):

So, I came to really cherish that. I really liked doing it. And initially, I was worried like, "What about in the off season? It's July. How am I going to fill the space?" It was like 65 inches to start with.

Todd Jones (48:50):

That's a lot of words-

Jerry Tipton (48:52):

Yeah. Sometimes longer.

Todd Jones (48:53):

For off season coverage.

Jerry Tipton (48:55):

Yeah. But I discovered happily that there's no off switch on Kentucky basketball, it continues. The interest never wanes. And plus, it kind of motivated me to work, to call people and try to think up ideas that could be developed into notes and stuff like that. So, I liked it.

Jerry Tipton (49:24):

I had to make sure that I didn't put my opinion in there, which wasn't that hard, but that was a cautionary thing also.

Todd Jones (49:34):

Like you said, the spotlight never was turned off. It was always on. And what I always found interesting about players or coaches at Kentucky is some people thrive in that type of environment and others can't.

Todd Jones (49:51):

When you think about all the great Kentucky basketball players you saw and covered over those 41 years, were there's maybe one or two that stand out in terms of just they got it. They understood it. They were able to handle it in a way that maybe they thrived in it.

Jerry Tipton (50:09):

Well, I tell you, I'm not covering now, but Reed Sheppard strikes me that way, a freshman on this year's team. Both his mother and father played for Kentucky. He grew up in Kentucky wanting to play for Kentucky. So, I think he got it. And he's a big fan favorite.

Jerry Tipton (50:25):

I'm trying to think for a moment. I mean, they've had so many great players over the years, and-

Todd Jones (50:34):

I mean, the guys would come in with these legendary tales as recruits. Like a guy like Sam Bowie for instance, comes in and he was there when you were really just starting on the beat. He comes in with all this hype and attention and a guy like Rex Chapman comes in in the late '80s, or '86, or '87.

Todd Jones (50:53):

They come in with these storylines and the whole state expecting things, and some guys handle it and some don't.

Jerry Tipton (51:00):

Those guys handled it. And of course, my first two years covering were the two year Sam Bowie sat out. He had a stress structure. And then he finally played my third year was his last year. And if he felt any pressure about that, it didn't show.

Jerry Tipton (51:19):

But Rex always wondered. And he has a new book coming out, and I guess it's a memoir. And I think he gets into that part of it as being that iconic figure as a teenager. Which I find-

Todd Jones (51:40):

You're in the eye of a hurricane, basically.

Jerry Tipton (51:42):

Yeah. I find that fascinating. And as you know, I mean, I would think it's much worse now, with the internet and social media. And I didn't look at that stuff as it pertained to me or it pertained to anybody really. It was like almost a distraction, and I didn't want that on my mind.

Jerry Tipton (52:04):

At the beginning, if I felt like the story merited comment, I might look. And I did some, but then I thought I mean, if they send me an email, I'll read it, but I wasn't going to go on social media searching for it.

Todd Jones (52:23):

Do you have a favorite old fashioned letter or any type of reader response to you over the years, or a comment made to you that sticks out in your mind as almost like funny, even though it's like mean-spirited?

Jerry Tipton (52:37):

Well, one person and I think this is in the memoir, didn't like a question I asked of a player. I forgot that the post game press conferences could be accessed on social media and they could watch every question.

Jerry Tipton (52:56):

And so, I asked a player a question basically about his play not being very good, and how he felt that impact of the game that Kentucky lost. And the fan wrote in not happy about me. And he ... how should I put this delicately? He questioned the size of my manhood.

Jerry Tipton (53:19):

And I always tried to respond to the reader as long as I could think of a polite way to do it. But that one, I couldn't think of a way to politely acknowledge the protest.

Todd Jones (54:21):

As we wrap this up here, do you have a favorite team to cover, or a favorite player? I mean, I'm sure you get that asked a lot, but I'm thinking about it as a journalist, as somebody who was working the beat and not just watching the team.

Jerry Tipton (54:37):

Well, going into every season, I would be wondering, I hope there's going to be a player or two that you can engage and have a nice back and forth with. And that seemed to always happen for the most part. There was players that got it, so to speak.

Todd Jones (54:55):

Who were some of those folks?

Jerry Tipton (54:56):

Well, Jamal Mashburn was good and-

Todd Jones (54:58):

Really? Okay.

Jerry Tipton (54:59):

Yeah. I'm trying to think. Like John Pelphrey was good. Sam Bowie was good. Kenny Walker was good.

Todd Jones (55:10):

And what do you mean by good? I mean, I know what you mean as a journalist, but if a listeners' hearing this, what do you mean by a player who's good?

Jerry Tipton (55:16):

Well, I always wanted the interview to be more than question response, question response. Like I remember that year with COVID, we were on Zoom so much, we couldn't do anything about it. It was question response for the most part.

Jerry Tipton (55:31):

But I wanted to engage the person and have a conversation that hopefully there were quotable comments made during the conversation. But that's what I wanted. I wanted a conversation.

Jerry Tipton (55:46):

And I wanted to talk to the person as well as the player. And in the stories, I wanted to at least try to show the person to some extent.

Todd Jones (56:01):

To remind people that these are real people.

Jerry Tipton (56:05):

Yeah, right. Exactly. And I talked to Sam Bowie for the memoir, and he was good. He was very human in our conversation, which I appreciated.

Jerry Tipton (56:16):

But anyway, another favorite for mine, and this was almost on a much more personal level, was Erik Daniels, I think his name was, he was a big guy. He wasn't that big. And they were shorthanded that year. And so, he played center. He was about 6'8".

Jerry Tipton (56:32):

And one thing he did, he used a shot fake. He'd kind of throw up his arm like he was shooting, and then the defender would react and he'd go with the other arm.

Todd Jones (56:45):

Old school. Yes.

Jerry Tipton (56:48):

Yeah. And I had a buddy back in the '70s when I worked at the paper in Huntington, West Virginia, Chris Thompson. And we used to kid about arm fakes. We thought they were like comic props. Nobody's falling for that. But Erik Daniels made it work, and it worked. And I really enjoyed that.

Jerry Tipton (57:09):

See, I like cleverness in a player. And he had to use cleverness. He wasn't going to just overpower the other team's big guy, most of the it.

Todd Jones (57:21):

Yeah. That's what I mean, when you see so many players over the years, I mean, some stand out because of sheer talent. But some are memorable for cleverness on the court or the way they handle things off the court and the way they engage with you as media members-

Jerry Tipton (57:35):

Sense of humor. That was always nice to see that on display. I remember Kellan Grady, if you remember him as shooter.

Todd Jones (57:45):

I do not.

Jerry Tipton (57:47):

He played in I think '21, '22 was his last year, and he was a transfer portal guy. And his teammates were mostly freshmen called him Granddad. And I remember asking him, "What's it like at age 24 to be a grandfather?" And he laughed.

Jerry Tipton (58:10):

But he kind of went back into the, “I'm trying to help the players.” But it was nice, he played along.

Todd Jones (58:21):

Right. Well, this has been a fun conversation as always, Jerry. And I'm really looking forward to the book, Deja Blue: A Sportswriter Reflects on 41 Seasons of Kentucky Basketball.

Todd Jones (58:56):

And I wonder as one final question, if somebody said to you, “What was it like to cover Kentucky basketball for 41 years?” Is there one thing that comes to mind that maybe as a summation of what that is like?

Jerry Tipton (59:15):

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is good fortune. I felt very lucky. Like I said, everybody wants to cover something that the readers, in my case, would be interested in.

Jerry Tipton (59:28):

And the thought crossed my mind that there could be a lot of good reporters out there covering very well and writing riveting stories. But you're not aware of it, or not as many people are aware of it because they're not into that team. It's not a major team, so to speak.

Jerry Tipton (59:51):

So, I felt lucky. I covered Marshall for a year or two before I came to Lexington to cover Kentucky. And I thought I had a few moments there where a clever line in a story or something like that, but nobody would ever know it other than the readers of the paper.

Jerry Tipton (01:00:12):

So, I felt lucky to be covering Kentucky, and it was such challenging, and it motivated me to try to do the best I could do because I-

Todd Jones (01:00:27):

Right. Well, you did it well enough to be in the College Basketball Writers Hall of Fame, and Kentucky Journalism Hall of Fame, and you’re a alma mater Marshall.

Todd Jones (01:00:37):

So, again, I really appreciate the way you went about doing your job. You had a big impact on me and how I thought the job should be done. And I know the fans, even the times they were griping, they were just glad that you were actually asking the questions that they were interested in-

Jerry Tipton (01:00:51):

At times. Yes, I heard that.

Todd Jones (01:00:54):

... behind the scenes. At times.

Jerry Tipton (01:00:56):

At times, yes.

Todd Jones (01:00:57):

Well, thanks a lot. And I want to say to everybody, check out Deja Blue: A Sportswriter Reflects on 41 Seasons of Kentucky Basketball. It'll be a great read, not just for Kentucky fans, but for any fan of college basketball.

Todd Jones (01:01:09):

So, Jerry, thanks again.

Jerry Tipton (01:01:10):

Thanks, Todd.

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