Paul Hoynes part 1: “I'm Sweating Bullets, Shaking, Trying to Calm Myself Down.”

Todd Jones (00:07):

Hoynsie, it's a pleasure to have you take a seat in this tavern.

Paul Hoynes (00:12):

It's good to be here, Todd. Good to be here.

Todd Jones (00:15):

Have you told your attorneys that you were coming here?

Paul Hoynes (00:18):

No, no. They're on alert. I better have them on alert though. Speed dial.

Todd Jones (00:22):

We have alerted the 40s. Yes.

Paul Hoynes (00:25):

Yeah.

Todd Jones (00:25):

Now, I like talking to sports writers and I like talking baseball. And when I think about that, who else would be better to talk to than Paul Hoynes?

Paul Hoynes (00:35):

Oh, God.

Todd Jones (00:38):

Seriously, though, seriously, you've been covering the Guardians, formerly known as the Indians since 1983. Four decades. Now, baseball writers are a special breed. That's a tough, tough gig.

Todd Jones (00:52):

When you think about 40 years and you're still doing it, what comes to mind about being a baseball writer all these years?

Paul Hoynes (01:00):

Oh, sometimes I question my sanity. What exactly am I doing here? But I still like it, Todd. I still like the day to day. I still like to grind. I still like going to the ballpark every day, and talking to the players, talking to the coaches and the managers.

Paul Hoynes (01:24):

And I just I enjoy that because everybody says baseball's boring, but it's day to day, and to me, it always is changing. There's always something new to write about.

Todd Jones (01:37):

There's always a story.

Paul Hoynes (01:38):

Yeah. Win, lose, whatever.

Todd Jones (01:41):

And your office is Yankee Stadium one day or-

Paul Hoynes (01:43):

Not bad, yeah. Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, T-Mobile Park in Seattle. I mean, you're never in the office, which is a really good thing.

Todd Jones (01:56):

That helps. Baseball has so many stories, but when you think about it, being a sportswriter also has stories. When you think about covering baseball, is there something that you reflect back on that epitomizes what this job has been like?

Paul Hoynes (02:15):

Oh, man. Well, a couple things. Just kind of you're writing and you don't know who's reading it. You're just writing into the abyss. And you're just sitting there, "Does this matter to anybody sometimes?"

Paul Hoynes (02:39):

But the epitome of the job is that rush you get a deadline, I think. That adrenaline when you're trying to get something done and you have to file at the last pitch, last out of the game. And then you have to run down to the locker room.

Paul Hoynes (02:58):

And it's always pushing you. You're always getting pushed by the game, kind of.

Todd Jones (03:04):

Right. Do you have a favorite deadline memory?

Paul Hoynes (03:07):

I've got disastrous deadline memories.

Todd Jones (03:11):

Hey, we deal on disasters, so let's get a good one from you.

Paul Hoynes (03:15):

Well, the World Series I think the Braves, Yankees, maybe, I can't remember exactly. We're in Atlanta game one. Sheldon Ocker's sitting next to me, we're in the press box.

Paul Hoynes (03:29):

Sheldon has a glass of ice tea. He knocks it over, it goes right into my computer and it's boom, it's dead. And I'm sitting, "Oh, Jesus Christ. What am I going to do now?"

Paul Hoynes (03:43):

And so, Bud Shaw was there. That's when we used to cover the World Series. I'm go to Bud and he's sitting next to Dave Kindred. And Kindred was not writing that day, let me use his laptop.

Todd Jones (03:54):

Really?

Paul Hoynes (03:54):

Yeah. Let me use his laptop.

Todd Jones (03:55):

That's awesome.

Paul Hoynes (03:56):

And I'm sitting there thinking ... by this time, like I'm sweating bullets. I'm like shaking and I'm trying to calm myself down. I'm saying, "You've done this a hundred times. You've done this a thousand times. Take a deep breath and just write the goddamn story."

Todd Jones (04:08):

Well, if it's Kindred's computer, maybe you should have just hit F4 and a Dave Kindred column would come out.

Paul Hoynes (04:15):

That's exactly right. And then I was lucky because the computer came back to life the next day, so.

Todd Jones (04:21):

That's amazing. After the smoke came rising out of that. Now, I must say we taped Sheldon, and he didn't mention that story.

Paul Hoynes (04:27):

Yeah, I know why.

Todd Jones (04:31):

Alright. In all seriousness, besides being a bulldog on the beat and so respected among your peers, and rightfully so, (Cleveland Journalism Hall of Fame, by the way) there are so many stories about Paul Hoynes.

Paul Hoynes (04:45):

Oh, God.

Todd Jones (04:46):

Alright. Now, I'm going to turn the table a little bit, because I think being a character is part of being a sportswriter for some folks. Can we start with this? Can you give us a hawk call?

Paul Hoynes (05:02):

Oh. Right now?

Todd Jones (05:03):

Right now.

Paul Hoynes (05:05):

God. Well, okay. My wife isn’t here, so. I do this, she wants to kill me, but I'll give ...

Todd Jones (05:22):

We have it. We have the hawk call on record.

Todd Jones (05:28):

Now, the reason I brought that up is because that was part of a Friday night home baseball game in Cleveland, right? How did this originate? What's the hawk call?

Paul Hoynes (05:39):

The hawk call was like from college when we were studying. And we used to do this on our dorm room floor.

Todd Jones (05:52):

At Marquette.

Paul Hoynes (05:53):

At Marquette, yeah. And we used to do it at rugby parties so that was the gist of it.

Paul Hoynes (06:01):

But then one night in spring training we're in Tucson at the tainted rows, a hotel where the Sheridan Pueblo was attached. That's where everybody stayed. And we were at the bar and we had a few cocktails and-

Todd Jones (06:19):

Shocker.

Paul Hoynes (06:19):

Yeah. I started doing it. I did it once or twice, and Sheldon loved it. So, Sheldon taped it, but we said eventually it turned into every Friday night at home games everybody would throw in two bucks.

Paul Hoynes (06:39):

Everybody would either you get the top of the first, top of the second, bottom of the inning. Everybody would throw in like two or three bucks. And then one guy would tell me when to do it, what inning to do the hawk call.

Paul Hoynes (06:53):

And so, it was like a ritual. And sometimes I'd forget the innings. We'd have to go to the inquiry, like an inquiry board. Sheldon would've to make a final decision.

Paul Hoynes (07:07):

But we never picked the ninth inning, because that's when the game was ended. And I was like frantic on deadlines, so.

Todd Jones (07:17):

Well, I do remember coming up from The Columbus Dispatch, the first time on a Friday night. And I'm in there and I'm trying to type away, and all of a sudden that sound came from the front row below me. And I'm like, "What in God's name is that?" It's Hoynsie.

Paul Hoynes (07:36):

Yeah. But when Sheldon retired, thankfully it ended. The pressure was off.

Todd Jones (07:43):

Sheldon Ocker from Akron Beacon Journal all those years. I think he started covering the team in 1981. Jim Ingraham. You guys are like the three amigos. Jim started at The News-Herald in the mid '80s after you left and went to the Plain Dealer.

Todd Jones (07:56):

You guys have been traveling together forever, so they've got stories about you.

Paul Hoynes (08:02):

Oh, God.

Todd Jones (08:03):

So, I've done my research.

Paul Hoynes (08:05):

Alright. But I'm glad you mentioned that because those three guys, we traveled together when we were competitors. But I think that made the beat survivable and it made it enjoyable.

Paul Hoynes (08:19):

Because Todd, all I can think about when we were on a beat together was all we did was laugh. All we did, we just had a good time. And it was fun. We were always talking, we were going to dinner after the games, we would go on road trips.

Paul Hoynes (08:35):

Like in spring training, when they were trained in Tucson, we would go from ... every year, they did this one trip. It would go Tucson, Phoenix, Yuma, and Palm Springs. It would take like four or five days.

Paul Hoynes (08:50):

And so, the three of us would get in, Sheldon would always drive, and I'd be in the back with the cooler with the beer. Jimmy would be riding shotgun. And God, it was a blast.

Paul Hoynes (09:04):

And we'd always end up in Yuma, it seemed like every year we were there, they were honoring the Luftwaffe, the German Air Force, because it's a military base. It's an Air Force base. Yuma is. And so, I don't know, we were always there.

Paul Hoynes (09:24):

And like in some inning, they would roll out these guys and I don't know what the hell, but it was always blowing. It was always like there was nothing from Phoenix to Yuma. It was all desert. We'd stop at this place in Gila Bend, Arizona to eat. It was crazy.

Todd Jones (09:45):

Yeah. It's an interesting relationship among beat reporters. So, you and Sheldon, and Jim, you're covering the same team every day. You're competing against each other. I think people don't understand how the media works that way.

Todd Jones (10:01):

I mean, you guys are trying to like basically knock each other out. And then you like the sheep dog and the wolf cartoon, you clock out and then you go have dinner and have a beer and have some laughs.

Todd Jones (10:13):

So, what was that like for all these years together, the three of you guys?

Paul Hoynes (10:17):

I loved it. I'm older now, and the beat has changed so much, and everybody else is younger on the beat. I miss those guys. I miss those days. And it's kind of you have that little gap now between the younger writers and me, but I have a gap between everybody.

Paul Hoynes (10:33):

But yeah, that was fun. And some beats, the writers hate each other and they're always taking shots at each other, and that just makes a job miserable to me. I mean, why torture yourself? The job is hard enough. And if you hate the guy sitting next to you, what good is it?

Todd Jones (10:57):

Right. Even if they're poking fun at you.

Paul Hoynes (10:58):

That's right. Yeah.

Todd Jones (10:59):

Which leads me to this one. We're going to do the Hoynes greatest hits here. Just hold on a second. Two belts. Tell us a story about two belts.

Paul Hoynes (11:12):

I've never lived this down. We were in Tucson, in Spring training. And I was late to the ballpark or something and I jump out of bed, I'm getting my clothes on, get my pants on.

Paul Hoynes (11:27):

And the pants, there was a belt already in the pants, but I was in such a rush that I didn't think I had a belt on. So, I put two belts on and I'm walking around all day like that. No one says anything, then-

Todd Jones (11:43):

Wait a minute. The players, manager-

Paul Hoynes (11:44):

No, no one said anything.

Todd Jones (11:45):

Nobody says anything.

Paul Hoynes (11:46):

And then Ricky Mitch, one of the Indians PR guys, he goes, "Hoynsie, why do you got two belts on?" And I'm looking down and I got two belts on. So, years later, this becomes a legend this is like ...

Paul Hoynes (12:02):

And so, years later, I'm at the postseason in Boston, and I'm checking into my room and the bellman brings up my bag, and he goes, "Hey, somebody asked me, are you sure you don't have two belts on today?" And Tracy Ringolsby had bribed a guy to give that, to say that to him. I said, "Jesus Christ."

Todd Jones (12:29):

That's rich. That is rich. Well, while we're on the topic of pants, my sources tell me, there was a story involving Joe Carter.

Paul Hoynes (12:40):

Oh, God.

Todd Jones (12:43):

And you had a student following you around, like a young kid, right?

Paul Hoynes (12:50):

Yeah. Shadow. A shadow for the day.

Todd Jones (12:52):

Shadow how to become a baseball writer like Paul Hoynes. And this kid is following you around. And then you go to interview Joe Carter, and what happens?

Paul Hoynes (13:04):

So, come down after the game to the locker room, and we're going from player to player. And we go up to Joe Carter and I said, "Joe, how ..." Something about the game. And he stops, and he's looking at me, and he's looking me up and down. He goes, "Hoynsie, your fly's down."

Paul Hoynes (13:19):

I've been walking around the locker room with this kid, trying to impress this kid and my zipper's down. I was like, "What the hell is going on?"

Todd Jones (13:32):

I don't think he went into journalism.

Paul Hoynes (13:34):

No, he did not go into journalism. It's like, "Ugh."

Todd Jones (13:38):

Well, thankfully, Joe Carter's set you straight.

Paul Hoynes (13:40):

Joe gave me the heads up. Got it.

Todd Jones (13:44):

Alright. We've been laughing a lot about you at your own expense. One of the many, many things that I've always treasured about you, Hoynsie, is that you do have a sense of humor about yourself and many other things.

Todd Jones (13:53):

But in all seriousness, I mean, covering the beat for so many years, you saw so many ups and nouns, highs and lows.

Todd Jones (14:01):

When you think about it, do you feel like an historian of baseball in Cleveland in some ways, because you've been chronicling this on a day-to-day basis for four decades?

Paul Hoynes (14:12):

It is weird. I mean, you open the media guide, and you go back to the pages where all the players have played. And you start looking at all the As, and the Bs, and the Cs, and you're starting to know a big portion of these guys. And they've been playing since 1901.

Paul Hoynes (14:30):

And it's like you could tell a story about each guy, and that's a little scary. Every guy you recognize, you know something about them. So, I mean, in that sense, yeah.

Todd Jones (14:42):

But has it helped your storytelling, because your institutional knowledge, is there an example? Like because you knew somebody from years ago, it led to a story that you were able to produce now?

Paul Hoynes (14:53):

Yeah, a couple times. During the lockout, this last, what, 2000 ... couple years ago when they had the lockout in Spring training. Well, I would go back to 1995 when they had the substitute players, the replacement players in Spring training that we would go-

Todd Jones (15:12):

In '94.

Paul Hoynes (15:12):

We went through ... yeah, '95.

Todd Jones (15:14):

Spring training. Right.

Paul Hoynes (15:15):

Yeah. And we go through six weeks of having butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers, trying to play baseball. And then we go back, we go home. They play at one exhibition game at Progressive Field and then the strike is settled.

Paul Hoynes (15:31):

And they come back and we got to go back to Winter Haven. And they have like a reduced Spring training.

Paul Hoynes (15:40):

Long story short, 2022, I believe, the Spring training was reduced. So, I was able to call Kenny Lofton, and Albert Belle, and John Hart, to see how those guys got through a short spring training in 1995. So, I don't know. That's a long story, but yeah.

Todd Jones (16:03):

But it does show you the institutional knowledge pays off. I think sometimes we lose that today, and we're such an instantaneous knowledge society, everything's tweeting right now.

Todd Jones (16:15):

But sometimes if you go back and get the context of something, it leads to better understanding for a fan. This is what we're trying to do. We're trying to put the fans where they can't be.

Paul Hoynes (16:24):

Right, right, right.

Todd Jones (16:26):

So, you had that knowledge about baseball and Cleveland growing up, because you grew up here, you grew up reading the papers here in town. Do you have favorite writers or people you influenced?

Paul Hoynes (16:35):

Yeah, I grew up reading Bob Sandrick from the Cleveland Press, Russ Schneider from the Plain Dealer, Danny Coughlin from the Plain Dealer. Oh, man. Jim Braham, all those guys. Chuck Heaton, Bill Knowles. I mean, all-

Todd Jones (16:58):

Lebovitz.

Paul Hoynes (16:59):

Of course, Hal Lebovitz for sure. Bob August, all those great guys. I grew up, I delivered the press. I was a paper boy.

Todd Jones (17:06):

Did you really?

Paul Hoynes (17:07):

Yeah, when I was in high grade school or something, yeah.

Todd Jones (17:10):

You still deliver it now, once in a while.

Paul Hoynes (17:12):

That's right.

Todd Jones (17:14):

But growing up in the city, you had an appreciation for the sports scene, right?

Paul Hoynes (17:17):

Yes.

Todd Jones (17:18):

The passion of it. And I think a lot of people don't realize that you've been doing baseball for so long, but you did other things before then. You covered the Browns, for instance.

Paul Hoynes (17:25):

Yeah. I covered the Browns for The News-Herald and the Cleveland Press. Red Right 88. I covered-

Todd Jones (17:33):

You were covering that game?

Paul Hoynes (17:34):

Yeah. I covered Red Right 88.

Todd Jones (17:35):

What's your memory?

Paul Hoynes (17:36):

Just I remember Doug Dieken running off the field and his mustache was frozen stiff. I mean, it was so cold. And you couldn't even see out of the press box. It was so fogged up and iced over.

Paul Hoynes (17:52):

And I just remember the last play, Ozzie, diving in the end zone and just the end, just how quick it ended.

Todd Jones (18:01):

You were on the field at the end of the game. The writers would go out the field before they would go into the locker room. So, you're like right there. It's happening right in front of you.

Paul Hoynes (18:10):

Yeah. God, it was like devastating. It was just like because that was such a fun team to cover. And Sipe was so good. They had so many offensive weapons.

Paul Hoynes (18:20):

And I remember they didn't kick the field goal. They could have kicked the field goal. I'm pretty sure what they would lose 14-12, I think.

Todd Jones (18:30):

I think something like that, yeah.

Paul Hoynes (18:31):

And so, they could have let Cockroft try the field goal, but it was so cold I think he had missed one. And so, they threw the pass. And then at the awards bank with the next — like a couple months later, Cockroft got up and told Sam Rutigliano, "Sam, you should have let me kick it."

Todd Jones (18:50):

He's right. Who would've thought that we'd have Paul Hoynes on the show, legendary baseball writer and we end up talking about Red Right 88.

Paul Hoynes (19:02):

That's right.

Todd Jones (19:03):

Which leads me to this. So, you were covering the Browns. How did you end up in baseball? How did you make that move? Why? Were you a baseball fan? Is that what you always wanted to cover?

Paul Hoynes (19:14):

No, I did it out of necessity. I was working for the Cleveland Press, the Press folded. I was covering the Browns for the Cleveland Press. And then I kind of retraced my steps. I went back to the Painesville Telegraph with my first job.

Paul Hoynes (19:29):

And the Browns were training at Lakeland Community College then. So, I did training camp for them.

Paul Hoynes (19:37):

And then The News-Herald where I'd left The News-Herald to go to the Press, then they were looking for a baseball writer because I had worked at The News-Herald for six, eight years doing a bunch of different things.

Paul Hoynes (19:55):

And so, they're looking for a baseball writer. Every baseball writer I knew was an alcoholic, or was getting divorced, or was on the way to getting divorced. And I'm sitting there, "Boy, do I want to do that? I'm not sure about this. This might not be the best thing for me."

Paul Hoynes (20:16):

But I needed a job. So, Ted Diadiun hired me to do baseball. And Harry Horvitz, the owner, who owned the chain of papers, The News-Herald, the Lorain Journal, the Mansfield paper, a couple other papers. He told him, "Don't hire this guy. He's going to leave in two years. He's already left you once. Don't hire him again."

Paul Hoynes (20:41):

But Ted hired me, and I left out two years later. And we got into a fight in the press room.

Todd Jones (20:50):

Alright, alright. Well, wait a minute. Tell us this story. You got into a fight in the press room.

Paul Hoynes (20:56):

Yeah, I mean, Ted, he'd put his neck out for me. And-

Todd Jones (21:04):

Literally.

Paul Hoynes (21:05):

Yeah. And I took the job. I covered the Indians for two years, I think '83 and '84. And then the Plain Dealer called. And I told them, “No, I'm not doing it. And I'm going to stay here at The News-Herald.”

Paul Hoynes (21:24):

And then so, I'm talking to Jackie about it, this is a couple weeks past. She goes, "We could use-

Todd Jones (21:31):

Your wife, Jackie.

Paul Hoynes (21:31):

Yeah, my wife. And she goes, "We could really use the extra money." I said, "You're telling me now? We've talked about this for two ..." So, I go back in there and I called Tom Greer. You know bud Geracie?

Todd Jones (21:43):

Yes.

Paul Hoynes (21:44):

Bud Geracie is interviewing for the Indians job with Tom Greer, the former sports editor. He's going to get the job. So, I called Greer, the sports editor, I think that same day, and said, “Tom, is the job still open?” And Bud has never forgiven me. Well, I think he kind of forgave-

Todd Jones (22:05):

I think he did alright.

Paul Hoynes (22:06):

He did okay. He did a lot better than staying in Cleveland. But so, I ended up going to the Plain Dealer and I go in to tell Ted this. And he had this little glassed in office in the newsroom. And words came, push came to shove, and that was it. It was a baseball fight, a lot of pushing, but.

Paul Hoynes (22:30):

And yeah, him and me were really good friends. And then he becomes a sports editor of the Plain Dealer, and I'm still there. And we're good friends. We got past it. We're good friends. But it was not my best moment.

Todd Jones (22:45):

Did you get a judge's decision on that fight?

Paul Hoynes (22:48):

Yeah, that was a draw. The only thing, the typewriter lost. I think the typewriter got knocked over.

Todd Jones (22:55):

I thought it was a stone tablet.

Paul Hoynes (22:57):

Yeah.

Todd Jones (22:59):

Alright. So, you start covering baseball for the Plain Dealer after a couple years at The News-Herald. The Indians at the time were not successful, let's put it that way.

Paul Hoynes (23:11):

Yeah.

Todd Jones (23:11):

Let's put it this way. Alright. People think about Cleveland Baseball, it's been very successful since the '90s, obviously, when the new park opened downtown and the whole Renaissance. But in the '80s, they're playing at old Municipal Stadium.

Todd Jones (23:23):

I looked it up, I think your first three years on a beat, they averaged like 9,000, 8,000. And the place held like-

Paul Hoynes (23:32):

80,000, 75,000, 80,000. Yeah.

Todd Jones (23:35):

So, you're starting this beat as a baseball writer. What was it like to go to the park every day where the team's losing, there's nobody there. What were you thinking?

Paul Hoynes (23:44):

I loved it. I liked it. I liked the players. I was used to the NFL where it was kind of a little bit restricted. And there was some guys just a little paranoid to talk to you. Baseball writers didn't ...

Paul Hoynes (23:58):

I mean, the baseball players, access was great. You could talk to the coaches anytime you wanted. And they just seemed, there was like more freedom to the players. I thought they were looser, they'd tell you stuff. It was fun. It was fun to cover those guys.

Todd Jones (24:16):

They were right in front of you. They were there every day.

Paul Hoynes (24:18):

Right. And you had that tiny little locker room. Nobody could escape. So, if you waited for a guy, he had to come out eventually.

Todd Jones (24:27):

Well, describe it for us, because now it's like we have press conferences. They put them behind a podium and it's all controlled. But in these days, you're going into this old locker room in Cleveland Stadium. How big was it?

Paul Hoynes (24:37):

Yeah, I mean, it's not too much bigger than this room. Maybe two of these rooms. There was like 30 lockers, and it was just crammed in there. And then the training room was about this big.

Paul Hoynes (24:52):

They had like a whirlpool tub. It was named USS Thunder for Andre Thornton, because that's where he spent most of the time. And Jimmy Warfield was back there, and Paul Assenmacher were back in the trainer's room, one table back there.

Paul Hoynes (25:12):

The only thing was, it was really if you wanted to talk to somebody the guy next to you, they're hearing the whole interview, and they're dropping wise cracks or f-bombs. And so, that was kind of bad. But it was fun. It was a fun place.

Todd Jones (25:26):

What did you learn as a young reporter to strike up a rapport with these guys? Because the thing about baseball, it is every day. It's a game built on failure. If you fail 7 out of 10 times at the play, you're a good hitter.

Todd Jones (25:39):

How did you deal with that day to day and then trying to get guys to open up to you at a game where they're not always trusting of the media?

Paul Hoynes (25:49):

I learned there's no such thing as a dumb question. And I asked so many dumb questions. I think, I don’t know if they felt sorry for me or not, but I like talking ...

Paul Hoynes (26:02):

The thing that really interested me was the Latin ball players. A guy like Julio Franco came from the Dominican Republic. They acquired him from the Phillies. And I really liked him. I liked talking to him. And-

Todd Jones (26:21):

What did you like about it?

Paul Hoynes (26:23):

I just, it was a different culture, a different world. They're coming from a different kind of part of the world and baseball is all they had. I mean, this is the only thing that got him off the island, was baseball. And I really liked that. I admired that about them.

Paul Hoynes (26:39):

And Julio was a trip, man. He was-

Todd Jones (26:43):

Well, tell us about him.

Paul Hoynes (26:44):

He was one of the best right anti hitters I've ever seen. And one time he got arrested down in the Dominican for carrying a gun and Gabe Paul was the GM or the president, he told me.

Paul Hoynes (27:02):

And so, I figured he's done in the Dominican, I got to try to call him. And I don't speak Spanish. I still don't speak Spanish.

Paul Hoynes (27:11):

So, somehow I get a number to the jail where he is being held. And I figured the louder I spoke in English, the more they would understand me in Spanish. So, something happened where I got ahold of Julio and I said, "Julio, what are you doing?"

Paul Hoynes (27:28):

And he goes, "Nothing. I'm fine." I goes, "Well, how are you staying in shape?" And he goes, "Oh, my brother comes by every day and hits me ground balls, but he's in jail." I'm just saying this is a different culture we got going here.

Todd Jones (27:47):

Did you ever learn Spanish at all?

Paul Hoynes (27:48):

No, no. I know-

Todd Jones (27:50):

But you talk loud.

Paul Hoynes (27:50):

[Foreign language 00:27:51] That's the extent of my Spanish.

Todd Jones (27:57):

Who were some of the other players on those teams in the '80s that you recall covering and having like a good rapport with? Or maybe a bad one?

Paul Hoynes (28:05):

Ernie Camacho.

Todd Jones (28:07):

Oh, the relief pitcher.

Paul Hoynes (28:07):

Oh God.

Todd Jones (28:08):

Tell us about Ernie.

Paul Hoynes (28:09):

He was a trip. He said he bought a waterbed, but he said he couldn't use it because he got seasick when he slept on the water bed.

Todd Jones (28:18):

Wait a minute.

Paul Hoynes (28:20):

One year, he's got a bad right elbow and he's complaining about it. And nobody believes him. Corrales didn't believe him.

Todd Jones (28:34):

Pat Corrales, the manager.

Paul Hoynes (28:35):

Yeah. They're kind of making fun of him. "Come On, Ernie, pitch through it." So, Ernie gets the operation, gets the bone chip out of his elbow. They give it to him, and he puts it in a specimen cup and tapes it to the top of his locker, just to make sure everyone knew he was really hurt.

Todd Jones (28:53):

Here's proof.

Paul Hoynes (28:53):

Yeah. Oh God. Those guys.

Todd Jones (29:01):

You mentioned Corrales as the manager. A year or two, they were decent with him. But he also had a team that lost 102 games, I believe.

Todd Jones (29:09):

What was Pat like to cover as a manager, again, because the accessibility was so great, and yet the failure was constantly piling up. What was Pat like to cover?

Paul Hoynes (29:19):

Pat was fun. I think I was thinking about this. I've covered 13 different managers, like interim, full time. But I loved Corrales. He was like the first. Mike Ferraro was the first manager I covered in '83, and he didn't make it through the season.

Paul Hoynes (29:36):

But the poor guy, before he even took the job, he had cancer. He had his kidney removed. And so, he's driving around Spring training in a golf cart. But halfway through the season, he gets fired.

Paul Hoynes (29:50):

Corrales comes in because he'd just been fired in Philadelphia where they kind of had a players revolt because he was such a hard guy. And so, he comes in and he's just great. He tells his stories.

Paul Hoynes (30:05):

And he was telling us once that when he was coming up with the Phillies as a player, they said, "If you get into one more fight, we're releasing you." And then he goes, "But what are you going to do when somebody comes up to you, you're sitting in a restaurant and puts his hand right in the middle of your pizza?"

Paul Hoynes (30:23):

Now, but he never explained why the guy did that. That was part of the story.

Todd Jones (30:29):

Seems like a key detail.

Paul Hoynes (30:30):

Yeah. And he could sense when you were struggling for a story, he could sense when you needed some help.

Todd Jones (30:40):

Oh, that's like a godsend. That somebody's trying to help you. Give us a memory of a time when he helped you with something, with a story.

Paul Hoynes (30:47):

Yeah. They're in Yankee Stadium. Tommy John is pitching and beats him 2-1. Tommy John's like 40 years old, coming off the elbow injury. And so, we go into the locker room and go into Corrales's office after the game. And he's got six baseballs sitting on his desk.

Paul Hoynes (31:08):

And he goes, "What do you see about those baseballs?" And I can't see anything. They're all scuffed up. And he goes, "They're all scuffed in the same spot because Tommy John was cheating. He was cutting the ball on his-

Todd Jones (31:20):

We had breaking news-

Paul Hoynes (31:21):

... on his field." Yeah.

Paul Hoynes (31:24):

Another time Neil Heaton pitched for him. Corrales went to get him out, he got hammered. And Corrales went to take him out of the game and heat and flips him the ball up in the air. And Corrales smoke is coming out of his ears.

Paul Hoynes (31:39):

So, after the game, he's packing his equipment bag. He goes, "That motherfucker ever does that again, he's going to go back to ..." I think wherever they were, Columbus or something. He's throwing his shoes against the wall.

Todd Jones (31:53):

The passion and the energy or something like that. Oh my God. Do you have a favorite blow up of a player or manager in a setting like that?

Todd Jones (32:05):

Because again, it's kind of like you're in this little room, and people are on top of each other and there's a lot of emotion because of a win or a loss. But is there a night where something went awry?

Paul Hoynes (32:16):

Well, unfortunately, I was-

Todd Jones (32:19):

Oh, excuse me. Mel Hall, perhaps.

Paul Hoynes (32:20):

Yeah. Mel. You want to hear that?

Todd Jones (32:25):

Yeah.

Paul Hoynes (32:25):

Mel Hall was an outfielder for Indians. Came over from the Cubs with a Joe Carter deal.

Todd Jones (32:33):

It was in the '80s.

Paul Hoynes (32:34):

Yeah. Nice guy. I mean, good guy. Funny guy. But a woman filed a lawsuit against him saying back child support or something. And he had also been in a car accident the year before or something with a traveling secretary, Mike Seghi.

Paul Hoynes (32:52):

They got in a car accident coming back, and he got hurt. He was knocked out for the season, Mel. And his company sued Seghi's company or insurance company. So, I write this story about combining the two things, the woman and-

Todd Jones (33:11):

Hey, this will make a good meatloaf. Let's combine this with that.

Paul Hoynes (33:15):

Yeah. And so, I come in Sunday morning into the locker room, and Corrales goes, "You better get out of here. There's a bounty on your head." So, I'm turning around to get out of the locker room, and I run right into Mel, and he is like screaming and yelling at me.

Paul Hoynes (33:32):

And he goes, “If I'm not wearing this uniform, I'm going to kill you. I'll kick your butt. I'm taking you outside.”

Paul Hoynes (33:37):

And this is going on and I'm sitting there, "God." And I'm sitting in the middle of the locker room and I don't know what to do. Do I just turn around and walk away? Everybody's in there and I'm sitting there thinking, "You turn around and walk away."

Paul Hoynes (33:53):

So, finally, I made a mistake. I just opened my mouth and goes, "Mel, I'm sitting right here." And he goes staring across the locker room, and we slam into each other. And I end up in the bottom of Carmen Castile's locker. And Otis Nixon is on top of me.

Paul Hoynes (34:13):

So, he saved my life. Otis Nixon pulls Mel off. Tony Bernazard put … and Mike Vetico was one of the writers, they kind of pushed me out the door. And that's the last time I did anything like that.

Todd Jones (34:30):

You realize this is the second fight you've been involved in that we're talking about.

Paul Hoynes (34:33):

I know.

Todd Jones (34:34):

I detect a theme here.

Paul Hoynes (34:35):

Yeah. So, that was-

Todd Jones (34:39):

Did you guys ever patch it up?

Paul Hoynes (34:40):

Yeah.

Todd Jones (34:40):

Again, because you got to come back the next day and you might have to interview him.

Paul Hoynes (34:43):

After the game, he's sitting there laughing. He's joking with me. It didn't matter to him. He goes, "Why did you do that? Why'd you say that?" And I just ...

Todd Jones (34:57):

Did you find guys who didn't hold grudges or those were the guys you could deal with? If you could be honest and they could express themselves and you might butt heads over something, fine, but if they didn't hold a grudge, we're just working here.

Paul Hoynes (35:10):

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean there was a lot of especially pitchers, I thought were like that. I mean, starting pitchers, those guys, they talked to after every game, win or lose. And they knew what you were doing. Some guys understood it. Some guys thought you were just taking shots at them.

Paul Hoynes (35:28):

But it just I think if you're fair, if you try to talk to them, try do both, give their side of it if something went wrong or you wait for them if they made a big error and ask them, or maybe ask them the next day. I think that's how you kind of navigate your way through those situations.

Todd Jones (35:52):

I mean, and the fact that you and Mel Hall were fighting at the bottom of a locker, and a few hours later after the game, you're laughing.

Paul Hoynes (36:01):

And we were good friends. I remember like not friends, but it's co-existent. And I remember like several years later, I'm at an all-star game and the post-game party, or the pre-game party in Texas when I'm walking along.

Paul Hoynes (36:18):

And Mel's there with his girlfriend. And he goes, "Hey, this is the writer I almost killed." He had the times with that.

Todd Jones (36:27):

That's tremendous.

Paul Hoynes (36:27):

Yeah, so funny.

Todd Jones (36:28):

I don't know. Well, I think that, again, a theme here is wrestling. You're a rugby player at Marquette. I think there was a rugby reference or something involving Bud Shaw and Albert Belle.

Todd Jones (36:45):

We had Bud on the show. And Bud recounted a tale where he wrote a column for the Plain Dealer about Albert, that Albert didn't quite like. They started going at it. And then you stepped in.

Paul Hoynes (37:01):

Yeah. Albert accused Bud of going into his locker and-

Todd Jones (37:08):

Which was not true.

Paul Hoynes (37:08):

Yeah. And because Albert had kept ... somebody, either Davey Nelson or Charlie Manuel or somebody had told Bud that Albert keeps a notebook of every umpire of what a strike zone is.

Todd Jones (37:21):

Yeah. His work ethic was incredible.

Paul Hoynes (37:22):

Yeah, right. And I think Bud wrote about that. And Albert just being Albert accused him of being in his locker. And so, I'm standing over at the other end of the locker room, and all of a sudden they're going nose to nose.

Paul Hoynes (37:38):

And so, I went over there and I was just standing there and I just felt like if something's going to happen, I'm going to tackle him. I'm going to take him low. But nothing.

Paul Hoynes (37:55):

I mean, John Maroon came, the PR guy came over, broke it up. Sandy Alomar broke it up. He took Bud and me over, he says, "You know that guy's crazy. Just stay away from him." (38:08)