A Front-Row Seat with the Sportswriters Who Sat There
Sit down with host Todd Jones and other sportswriters who knew the greatest athletes and coaches, and experienced first-hand some of the biggest sports moments in the past 50 years. They’ll share stories behind the stories -- some they’ve only told to each other.
Tim Kurkjian: “This is Why Baseball is so Beautiful.”
Tim Kurkjian’s love of baseball radiates as he recounts his four decades of covering our National Pastime. The ESPN stalwart takes us to his early days as a newspaper beat reporter when terrible teams couldn’t extinguish his joy. Tim recalls Don Zimmer’s wisdom, Earl Weaver’s unforgettable greeting, and Cal Ripken Jr.’s ferocious competitiveness even off the field.. He puts us there for a Game 7 that Jack Morris wouldn’t leave, and a Game 7 when the Cubs broke a curse. We hear about Tony Gwynn’s favorite bat, an odd request from Mickey Rivers, and a shared fascination for the APBA board game. There’s a memorable moment with Johnny Bench sitting lakeside in Cooperstown. And, yes, that sausage mascot race . . . Yikes.
Kurkjian was named the 2022 Baseball Writers’ Association of America’s Career Excellence Award winner (formerly the J.G. Taylor Spink award), presented annually to a writer “for meritorious contributions to baseball writing.” He was recognized at Baseball Hall of Fame ceremonies in July of ’22. Tim has been a senior writer for ESPN.com and a baseball writer, analyst, host and reporter for ESPN TV since 1998. He has served as an analyst for “Monday Night Baseball” and “Wednesday Night Baseball.” Tim earned an Emmy Award in 2002 for his work on “Baseball Tonight,” and he was honored with a second Emmy for his contributions to “SportsCenter” in 2003-04.
Tim was one of the first sportswriters to appear on TV as an analyst. He spent the first half of his career at newspapers and at Sports Illustrated, where he was a baseball senior writer for nine seasons (1998-97). He also worked as an on-air reporter for CNN-SI in his final two years at the magazine. His journalism career began at The Washington Star in 1978. He then worked briefly for the Baltimore News American in 1981 before joining the The Dallas Morning News to cover the Texas Rangers as a beat reporter beginning in the 1982 season. Tim moved to The Baltimore Sun in 1986 and covered the Baltimore Orioles as a beat writer through the 1989 season.
Kurkjian is the author of three books: “America’s Game” (2000), “Is This a Great Game or What?” (2007), and “I’m Fascinated by Sacrifice Flies” (2017). He grew up in Bethesda, Md. and attended Walter Johnson High School, named for the great Washington Senators pitcher. Tim graduated from the University of Maryland with a BS in journalism in 1978.
Follow Tim on Twitter: @Kurkjian_ESPN
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Tim Kurkjian edited transcript
PBA_Tim Kurkjian
Speakers: Todd Jones & Tim Kurkjian
Todd Jones (00:01):
Tim, welcome to our humble pub. I'm really glad you could join us.
Tim Kurkjian (00:10):
Well, I love talking to sportswriters. Been a sportswriter my whole life. Deep down inside, I'm a baseball writer at heart working for a newspaper on deadline, and few things have changed since then, but those were my best days.
Todd Jones (00:23):
Well, I'm looking forward to reliving some of those days. Tim, it's really a joy to have you join us.
Todd Jones (00:28):
Like a center fielder, we got a lot of ground to cover. You spent more than 40 years covering a national pastime. You're one of the best known, well-respected reporters covering baseball.
Todd Jones (00:40):
2022, you were in Cooperstown to receive the Baseball Writers’ Association of America's Career Excellence Award, which is the highest honor given to a baseball writer.
Todd Jones (00:51):
And I must say you're the only writer we've had on this podcast who has participated in the Sausage mascot Race at the Milwaukee Brewers, home game.
Tim Kurkjian (01:08):
Alright. I'm not doing the podcast anymore.
Todd Jones (01:09):
Yeah, I do want to know what happened to-
Tim Kurkjian (01:12):
Let me quickly explain what happened there. Okay.
Tim Kurkjian (01:16):
Well, this is not how we should be beginning this podcast, but now we are. So, Mike McQuade was my boss at ESPN, and he said, "Tim, you're running in the Sausage Race." I said, "No, I'm not." He said, "Yes, you are."
Tim Kurkjian (01:27):
And since I was afraid of my boss, I did what he told me. So, I show up to run in the Sausage Race, and I get to pick whatever costume I want, which is ridiculous.
Tim Kurkjian (01:37):
And I get in this costume, it's the hotdog costume, and it's six times as big as me. I asked them if they had anything in a breakfast sausage, and they said, "No, all of these are this big." And then the guy who's fitting me for the costume actually looks at me and says, "These costumes are built for bigger men and you're not very big."
Tim Kurkjian (02:00):
Thanks so much. I wasn't sure about that at 5'5, at 140 pounds. So, long story, I think that since I'm the guest in the race, that they're going to let me win the race. Like the other sausage products are going to let me win.
Tim Kurkjian (02:17):
Instead, I find out it's a competition, a real competition every night, they're actually keeping score. And if you win the race, you don't have to walk work from the seventh and on.
Todd Jones (02:28):
Right.
Tim Kurkjian (02:28):
So, I thought they were going to throw the race for me, so I could win. And as it turns out, I got off to a really bad start. I got a little confused as to which direction I was supposed to run.
Tim Kurkjian (02:40):
Needless to say, I finished way last in this. In fact, I did so poorly that a girl down the right field line had to yell at me, "Get off the field, the next inning is going to start any second." That's how slow I was. Todd, it was like a little guy running with a gigantic patio umbrella over his head, in the middle of a hurricane while he was drunk. That's what it felt like for me.
Tim Kurkjian (03:12):
I was so embarrassed. And thank God I didn't put this down as an athletic competition, otherwise I would've jumped off the roof of Miller Park. That's how bad it was.
Tim Kurkjian (03:23):
And the two kickers to the whole thing, after the game, I'm still a working reporter. I had to go in and interview these guys, and they all knew that I ran in the race, and I embarrassed myself.
Tim Kurkjian (03:36):
And one of the pitchers came up to me, Kyle Lohse, former red came up to me and announced in front of the whole clubhouse and said, "And here he is, the worst hotdog ever in the hotdog race." I went, "Oh my God."
Tim Kurkjian (03:53):
So, I do my work in the clubhouse and no lie, I go back to the compound at ESPN where there's always a post-game meal for everyone. And of course, what are they serving at the post-game meal? They were serving, bratwurst.
Tim Kurkjian (04:08):
Just to remind me how terribly I did in that. So, thanks very much for bringing up one of the most embarrassing nights of my life. And yet it was, I must say, it was-
Todd Jones (04:18):
I just like the fact that the game was nearly delayed by a meandering hotdog.
Tim Kurkjian (04:28):
Oh, it was so bad. It was so bad. And they asked me if it was interesting-
Todd Jones (04:32):
No, there you go. So, the one and only, but hey, you know what, Tim, you did it. How many sports writers would've done that unless they were like going to dress up as a giant beer?
Tim Kurkjian (04:42):
Yes.
Todd Jones (04:43):
So, you did it. I appreciate that. And I think in all seriousness, your willingness to do that, to put on a giant hotdog suit and run around the field, it really does show a love for the game.
Todd Jones (04:55):
And I do mean that because your love for the game, is shown in how you've covered the game for all your life. It goes back to really your childhood, right? The love of baseball.
Tim Kurkjian (05:11):
Yeah. Oh yeah. My dad, Todd, was a really good player, and baseball was the primary language spoken in my house growing up. This isn't something I just got interested in after college. Okay? This was with me my entire life.
Tim Kurkjian (05:26):
My dad taught us three boys how to play the game. He gave us a great feel for the game. He taught us to love the game. My two brothers, Andy and Matt, are in the Baseball Hall of Fame at Catholic University because of their baseball exploits.
Tim Kurkjian (05:40):
Again, my dad was a really good player. And my dad was also a PhD in mathematics, MIT undergrad. So, he took that love of statistics and that love of baseball and merged them.
Tim Kurkjian (05:53):
Can't tell you how many times we would sit in between games we were playing. And my dad would show me the baseball encyclopedia and say, look at Ted Williams 1946 season, or look at that Stan Musial had more triples than strikeouts one season.
Tim Kurkjian (06:10):
And this is stuff I learned when I was eight, and I'm still using this stuff today because my father gave me that love of the game and that feel for the game that I have never lost, because I've always been so fascinated by the sports.
Tim Kurkjian (06:27):
So, unlike you, Todd, who got to go to the Super Bowl and the Masters and everything, I had a much more narrower focus. And I said, I love all the sports, but I need to cover baseball. And I've made a career out of it. Nothing can make me-
Todd Jones (06:39):
Well, I can relate, in that my love for sports writing began with baseball. I grew up in the Cincinnati area, the big red machine. I was age 10 when they were rolling.
Todd Jones (06:48):
And I used to play this dice game, APBA, the cards. And I would play entire seasons, and I would write out little game summaries after I would play a game. And I think that's where my love for sports writing began with baseball. It's got to start there, right?
Tim Kurkjian (07:08):
Oh Todd, but nobody played more APBA than I did growing up. In fact, my mother (God bless her, the greatest mom ever), used to say to our boys once in a while, "I'm going to burn that game." Because that was the only thing we did when we weren't actually watching a game on TV or playing the game.
Tim Kurkjian (07:27):
We played APBA, I could tell you a thousand stories. I merged that into Strat-O-Matic, which I played for years and years.
Tim Kurkjian (07:35):
Again, all by myself, Todd, just like you, up in my bedroom, my friends are out in high school drinking beer and chasing after girls, and I'm playing the game by myself in my bedroom.
Tim Kurkjian (07:46):
I'm announcing it softly, out loud and routinely. I would do what you did. I would write a little recap of the game and it was really important to me.
Tim Kurkjian (07:56):
But me, don't be me. I thought, well, I must be the only sportswriter that did this. As it turns out, you and dozens of other baseball writers that I've met did this.
Tim Kurkjian (08:05):
But it was really encouraging when I found out that Keith Hernandez once told me, "Oh, I played Strat-O-Matic all the time when I was in high school." And he told me, "I got drafted to go play pro ball," he said, "And when I'm packing my suitcase to go play pro ball, I packed my Strat-O-Matic."
Tim Kurkjian (08:26):
And he said his father came to him and said, "Keith, you're a professional baseball player. You're not taking that game with you." And he said, "But dad, I'm halfway through the 1970 season."
Tim Kurkjian (08:37):
So, it was so encouraging to see that others did this. In fact, I covered a game in Minneapolis once with Jon Miller, Hall of Fame, broadcaster was the play-by-play of the game that night. I was the beat guy covering the Orioles, and Jon was the play-by-play guy.
Tim Kurkjian (08:53):
So, I accidentally left something in the press box, my notebook or something. He called me to say, "I have your notebook. Come on upstairs and get it." When I go up to his room, it's midnight. He has just called a major league game. And he's up there playing Strat-O-Matic by himself.
Tim Kurkjian (09:10):
He loves the Blue Jays teams. And he would say, yeah, "I love to put Duane Ward in the eighth, and Tom Henke in the ninth. And I was just so struck, here's a guy who's on his way to the Hall of Fame, is still playing Strat-O-Matic after calling a major league game.
Tim Kurkjian (09:26):
So, I love those games with all my heart. And every once in a while, Todd, I will run into an old-time player and I will think I know exactly what his 1970 APBA card looks like. He has no idea. But I know what he did in '70.
Todd Jones (09:43):
A seven was a single, and 14 was a walk, 13 was a strikeout. We could go on and on about APBA.
Todd Jones (09:50):
Yeah, well, that's where I started writing. And that's where you started writing it sounds like. And actually, you went on. You grow up in Bethesda, Maryland.
Tim Kurkjian (10:01):
Exactly. Exactly.
Todd Jones (10:01):
And you even went to a high school named after one of the most famous baseball players ever, Walter Johnson. And you write for the newspaper, The Pitch.
Tim Kurkjian (10:11):
Right. And there's no doubt. Yeah. I always thought there was some destiny involved here that I went to a high school named after the greatest pitcher of all time.
Tim Kurkjian (10:22):
And you're right, I worked for the school paper, The Pitch, I did some work for the yearbook. It was called The Windup.
Tim Kurkjian (10:28):
So, I never quite understood Todd. We were called the Spartans. We were the Walter Johnson Spartans, which I never quite understood. We should have been the big train or the cut fast ball or the whatever.
Tim Kurkjian (10:42):
But yeah, I always thought that was the coolest thing. And that's where I truly got my writing start, was at The Pitch.
Tim Kurkjian (10:49):
I was terrible, by the way, in high school. Oh, my gosh. After one especially bad story, one of my gym teachers, Mr. Klein, came up to me and said, "Tim, that might be the worst story I've ever read in the school table." He said, "I hope you're not planning on making this your life's work."
Tim Kurkjian (11:07):
And not only did I make it my life's work, I ended up go to Cooperstown with it. It was just an unbelievable journey that I went on. But we have friends of ours (maybe you're this way, Todd), who were absolutely born to write, that was not me. I had to figure this out. Took a long time, but eventually I figured out how to do that without embarrassing myself.
Todd Jones (11:26):
Well, you certainly did. It took you all the way to Cooperstown and to win the award, the old Sphinx Award as it used to be known. That's the highest honor you can get as a baseball writer. And it's so well deserved.
Todd Jones (11:38):
I'm thinking about those days of trying to write early, and like you said, it was difficult. Baseball is a game of failure too. You got to keep at it, 7 out of 10 failures, you're a pretty good hitter.
Todd Jones (11:51):
And even in 1981, early in your career, two of your newspapers that you worked for, both folded the Washington Star and Baltimore News American. So, your career was off to kind of a shaky start there, right?
Tim Kurkjian (12:07):
My gosh, I had planned on working at the Washington Star my entire life. That was a great newspaper. It's in my hometown. I'm covering baseball. I'm doing all sorts of stuff. And then suddenly out of the blue, the paper folded. That's it.
Tim Kurkjian (12:21):
So, two days after it officially folded, I went to the News American, in Baltimore. And after two months there, 44 people got laid off. I was the first guy laid off because I was the last guy hired. So, I lost two jobs in two months through no fault of my own.
Tim Kurkjian (12:38):
And then I got a call from the LA Times, not to offer me a job, unfortunately, but they were doing a story about the demise of the newspaper business. A writer calls me to ask me, because he said, "We noticed that you lost two jobs in two months."
Tim Kurkjian (12:54):
So, I jokingly said something stupid like, "Look, if I go to another newspaper and it folds, I'm just going to join the circus." And that quote-
Todd Jones (13:03):
It was a good quote. Come on.
Tim Kurkjian (13:05):
Front page of the LA Times, that I was right … I guess it was because they used it. But yeah, I got off to a rocky start in the newspaper business.
Tim Kurkjian (13:15):
But again, those days, Todd, were the greatest days of my whole life being a young writer, trying to learn the ins and outs of the newspaper business.
Tim Kurkjian (13:26):
And then when I became a beat writer, which I was for 10 years, that was the greatest exercise ever to learn how to work. It taught me how to write quickly, how to write on deadline. It taught me how to talk to people. It taught me how to find a story and then what to do with that story.
Tim Kurkjian (13:45):
So, I think back about what I do on TV now, I'm always a writer first, but anything I do on the radio, on TV, on podcasts is because the beat writer days taught me how to do all of this.
Tim Kurkjian (13:59):
If I started another way, I was just like a TV guy. And then at age 40, I became a beat guy, I'm not sure it would've been as easy.
Tim Kurkjian (14:07):
I think I started in the perfect place. I've said it before, if you could do the beat, you could do just about anything at the newspaper because it is relentless. But I loved every second of it, no matter how difficult it was.
Todd Jones (14:17):
Let's talk about those days of being a beat reporter. Baseball writers are a different breed, especially if you're on the beat.
Todd Jones (14:24):
And in 1981 to '85, you cover the Texas Rangers for the Dallas Morning News, and then you move to the Baltimore Sun from 85 to 89 and cover the Baltimore Orioles as a beat reporter.
Tim Kurkjian (14:36):
When you think about those days in the 1980s, no internet, things were different, right? What was it like to cover a baseball beat on a daily basis then?
Tim Kurkjian (14:50):
Well, I loved every second of it, but it wasn't a 24-hour news cycle like it is today. Of course, when you broke a story in the 80s, you had that story for 24 hours. And of course, if you got beaten on a story, you had to wait 24 hours to get your version of the story you just got beaten on.
Tim Kurkjian (15:13):
And I think we could all remember that terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you picked up the other newspaper and realized, oh my God, they had something that I didn't have.
Tim Kurkjian (15:23):
In fact, Todd, this is pathetic to acknowledge this, but I was so competitive and so worried about the other guys on my beat, which by the way, I was in a fistfight every single day. The competitive nature of Dallas, and then Baltimore, oh my God, the people I went up against, it was just a nightmare.
Tim Kurkjian (15:43):
Richard Justice, Ken Rosenthal, Jim Reeves, Paul Hagen, Randy Youngman, it was brutal. If you weren't ready for the day, you were going to get your brains beat out.
Tim Kurkjian (15:53):
So, I routinely, when I was home, I would read the newspaper in my car, I would drive to a park, I would take my two dogs with me, and I would let them run free because I just couldn't put them on a leash. They needed to run free.
Tim Kurkjian (16:10):
But I would sit in the car and read the paper because if I missed anything, I would be so upset, so despondent that I would just windmill the paper across the backseat of my car. Like, how did I miss that?
Tim Kurkjian (16:24):
So, those were some heady days for me trying to get through a beat in a very, very competitive situation. But I repeat, it really taught me how to do just about any job in this business.
Tim Kurkjian (16:38):
And I loved every second of it, but I've never worked harder in my life, and I've never worried more in my life. I've never traveled more in my life. And I spent more time at the ballpark than I did at home.
Tim Kurkjian (16:49):
But several times I covered 162 games a year. The teams I covered Todd, were terrible too, for the most part. So, Sheldon Ocker, who covered the Indians all those years, he and I had a debate who wrote the most losing game stories in the 80s, me or him.
Tim Kurkjian (17:09):
And he looked at me and he goes, "Tim, hey, not even close. I had the Indians the whole decade. I actually did the math rep once." He was right. But I wasn't far behind at writing-
Todd Jones (17:18):
Well, you had a couple teams. I looked at all a bunch of Rangers teams that had losses of 92 and 98. You had the Orioles who had losses of 89 and 95 and 107.
Tim Kurkjian (17:37):
Todd, the 107 season, as you remember-
Todd Jones (17:40):
Right, 1988.
Tim Kurkjian (17:42):
They started out losing their first 21 games, the record was always-
Todd Jones (17:48):
They were like Bob Beamon in Mexico City. They just leaked right past it.
Tim Kurkjian (17:51):
They just kept going. Oh, they did. They completely lapped. It was unbelievable. It was so bad. Fortunately, we had Frank Robinson who took over at Owen six when Cal Ripken Sr. was fired in a terrible manner, by the way.
Tim Kurkjian (18:08):
So, Frank takes over and he's hilariously funny. He's freaking Frank Robinson. He's got the greatest stories ever.
Tim Kurkjian (18:15):
So, after loss number 18, I want to say he takes the writers on an off day out to dinner in Minneapolis. This has never happened before or after, he took us out to dinner. I think he just needed some support, or I think he just wanted to get away from his team and his coaches.
Tim Kurkjian (18:33):
So, about halfway through the night, again, pre-internet, all that and it's Richard Justice, Ken Rosenthal and myself, we're out to dinner with Frank and halfway through dinner I say to Frank, "Has anyone interesting called you during this losing streak?"
Tim Kurkjian (18:49):
And he said, "Yeah, the president called me today." So, Frank was always a big kidder. So, I thought he was BS-ing us. So, I pressed him three times on it. I said, Frank, be serious.
Tim Kurkjian (18:59):
Finally, he looked at me and he said, "Goddamnit, the president of the United States called me today." I said, "Frank, what did he say?" He said, "Frank, I know what you're going through." And Frank said, "Mr. President, you got no idea what I'm going through."
Tim Kurkjian (19:13):
So, the three beat guys, you can appreciate this, Todd. We went running to the payphones at the restaurant and called in this beautiful bright box that went on the front page of all of our newspapers, that the beleaguered manager of the Orioles had received a call from the president of the United States.
Tim Kurkjian (19:36):
So, that was as bad as it gets for a beat writer. Terry Kennedy told me after 14 games, he said something like a high school team couldn't lose 14 games in a row. And then it extended to 21. And then they won a game. And then they lost two more. And they went home, now 1 and 23.
Tim Kurkjian (19:57):
And we're thinking, oh my God, they're 1 and 23 and we got 140 games to go. How are we going to get through this?
Tim Kurkjian (20:04):
But we did, and as we know, Todd, the lesson is cover a really good team or cover a really bad team because it's ones in the middle, you're not sure what to do with. But unfortunately, it's very easy to write-
Todd Jones (20:16):
That year was so bad for that team that even the team owner died in August. Edward Bennett Williams passed away. So, you just had endless news going on despite the fact that they were losing so much.
Tim Kurkjian (20:32):
Yeah. Right, right. And we had endless news in Texas also when I first took over. Again, I'm an East Coast guy who moves to Texas to go cover the team. And I'm not sure what to expect in my first spring training as a full-time, full-time beat guy.
Tim Kurkjian (20:48):
Mickey Rivers, the great center fielder, one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. I've known Mickey now for three weeks in my life. Spring training, 1982-
Todd Jones (20:59):
2000.
Tim Kurkjian (20:59):
He goes up to me and goes, "Tim, can you loan me $2,000?" I have to explain Mickey, I'm making $14,000 a year. I don't have $2,000. I'm 24-years-old. I can't help you.
Tim Kurkjian (21:16):
And a couple of the veterans saw this and called me over later and they loved Mickey, but they said, "Tim, whatever you do, don't loan Mickey any money because you're never going to get it back."
Tim Kurkjian (21:25):
So, later that year, 1982, and again Todd, this was a really seminal moment in my career. I'm covering the Rangers and they've lost 11 games in a row and it's May and Don Zimmer is the manager of the team.
Tim Kurkjian (21:40):
And I've already grown to love Zim at this point because he was the all-time great baseball man. So, I stagger into his office in May of '82. The Rangers are horrible and they've lost 11 games in a row. He looks at me, sees that forlorn look on my face and goes, "What's wrong with you?"
Tim Kurkjian (21:57):
And I said, "Well Zim, I must tell you, covering this team isn't nearly as much fun as I thought it would be." Then he looks at me and I'm quoting here, he says, "Ah, quit complaining." And he said, "Look at yourself. You're young. You're good looking. You got your whole life in front of you."
Tim Kurkjian (22:11):
He said, "Look at me. I'm old, I'm fat, I'm bald, I'm ugly. I got a plate in my head, and I've got this team managed. I'm the one with all the worries. So, quit complaining and recognize how lucky you are at your age to be covering major league baseball every day."
Tim Kurkjian (22:29):
And as always, Zim was right. It was a great lesson for me to not worry about the team I was covering. Just do the job because you're covering a big-league team. It doesn't matter if they're good or bad.
Todd Jones (22:42):
Right. You mentioned like rat racing to payphone, it was like you had to keep change in your pocket, right? There was like little tricks you had. Do you remember back on some of the things that you would do to make sure that you were on top of things?
Tim Kurkjian (23:00):
Of course, I used to keep a bag full of dimes in my computer bag because just in case, in case the only phone I could get to was a payphone.
Tim Kurkjian (23:12):
Because sometimes if you remember Todd, the team would put a phone right next to you. But if the other beat guy from the other team is sitting right next to you and you need to make a private call, you don't want him to be here, you got to go find a payphone somewhere.
Tim Kurkjian (23:27):
And we all did this for a living. We found a payphone or a quiet place. And even in the cell phone era, this is changing the subject a bit. I was out with some friends; I want to say maybe 15 years ago.
Tim Kurkjian (23:41):
And I needed to reach Tony Gwynn and I called him earlier in the day and he didn't call me back, which was very unlike Tony Gwynn. But I got to have Tony Gwynn for this story.
Tim Kurkjian (23:52):
So, I take my notebook with me out to dinner just in case he calls back. And of course, he calls right in the middle of dinner.
Tim Kurkjian (24:00):
So, I leave the table and I go into the quietest place in the restaurant, which is the bathroom. I close the stall door and I'm literally sitting on the toilet and I'm talking to the greatest hitter since Ted Williams about a story that I'm writing.
Tim Kurkjian (24:17):
One of my buddies from dinner wanders in. He hears me talking on the phone in a closed stall. I get back to dinner and he says, "Who were you talking to?" I said, "Well, that was Tony Gwynn." He said, "You interviewed Tony Gwynn in a bathroom stall? What's wrong with you?" I said, "Well, I didn't have any other choice. It's the only time I could get him."
Tim Kurkjian (24:38):
And recently, like two years ago, this is terrible. I tried to reach Ken Griffey Jr for a Willie Mays story that I was writing for espn.com. And sorry, you can't write a Willie Mays profile without talking to Ken Griffey Jr. because he was supposed to be the closest thing to the next Willie Mays.
Tim Kurkjian (24:59):
So, I couldn't find him. I couldn't find him. Finally, he called me back and I'm with my daughter who has just gotten into the backseat of the car with her infant son, my grandson. And she has just begun the breastfeeding process to feed my grandson, when Ken Griffey Jr. calls.
Tim Kurkjian (25:20):
It was not ideal by any means, but I get one shot at this guy and I'm not missing. I looked at my daughter and I said, "I need to take this call."
Tim Kurkjian (25:29):
And fortunately, I told Junior, I said, "Junior, look, thanks for calling back. This might get a little dicey. My daughter's in the backseat breastfeeding her son, but we're doing this interview, anyway."
Tim Kurkjian (25:40):
He laughed his ass off. He thought that was the greatest thing ever. And I've interviewed him dozens of times. I promise you Todd, that was the best interview I've ever done with him. A, because it was about Willie Mays. But B, I think he recognized the … position I was in, and how he helped me-
Todd Jones (25:58):
Well, I think he also recognized the due diligence. The work ethic. Because let's face it, if you're going to do this baseball beat and you're going to do it day after day after day, you've got to A, love it and you got to B, work it.
Tim Kurkjian (26:18):
Look, that's common denominator of every great baseball writer I've ever met. They have a relentless work ethic because they have to.
Tim Kurkjian (26:28):
Dan Shaughnessy was my mentor at the Washington Star. I watched him as our primary baseball guy, and I said that's what I want to be. I'll never be that good, but that's what I want to be.
Tim Kurkjian (26:39):
Then I met Peter Gammons, who was completely out of his mind. And I mean that in the best possible way. He is the greatest baseball writer of all time. He taught all of us how to write a game story, how to do a Sunday notes column, how to do a regular notes column daily.
Tim Kurkjian (26:55):
He taught us how to do running. He taught us all of that. And the only Peter story, he taught about work ethic. I'm covering the Rangers, they're my team. It's my beat. No one is supposed to know more about my beat in 1984 than me.
Tim Kurkjian (27:09):
But I know the Rangers are making a trade, but I can't figure out what it is. I can smell it, I can feel it, but I can't figure out who's going where. And I called Peter, who's the beat guy for the Red Sox, and I said, "Peter look, something's going on with the Rangers. I can't figure this out. I just needed to talk to someone."
Tim Kurkjian (27:28):
He said, "Oh, you guys are getting Cliff Johnson later this afternoon." And two hours later the rangers got Cliff Johnson from the Blue Jays. And I'm thinking, "Oh my God, the beat guy for the Red Sox knows more than I do about my team."
Tim Kurkjian (27:43):
That's where I learned what work ethic is all about watching our greatest beat writers in baseball do their job, and Peter Gammons, certainly was the one that I watched the most.
Todd Jones (28:06):
Tim, what lessons did you learn as a young beat writer then that you still carry with you today?
Tim Kurkjian (28:19):
The first thing I learned as a young writer in the newsroom at the Washington Star was keep your eyes and your ears open. Listen to people who know better than you about all things and keep your curiosity. No matter what.
Tim Kurkjian (28:36):
Ask questions. If you see something that you don't understand, go ask somebody who knows better than you. And it's okay to say, "Hey, that tricky play in the sixth inning tonight, here's how I saw that. Did I see that correctly? Did I see that properly?"
Tim Kurkjian (28:56):
Those players, the manager will appreciate if you show them, I was actually watching the game, but I need a little help because I'm 24-years-old and you know so much more than I do. Help me with what happened on that play. You must be curious. You have to look around-
Todd Jones (29:14):
Do you remember a specific story that curiosity paid off?
Tim Kurkjian (29:17):
Every day in the clubhouse and make sure everybody's there because what if-
Tim Kurkjian (29:22):
Yeah, I wondered one day, it doesn't matter who it was, but one of the guys for the Orioles wasn't at the ballpark one day. It might have been Alan Wiggins, but that's not the point.
Tim Kurkjian (29:34):
I looked at the locker and I couldn't find him, and I looked around and I couldn't find him. And then finally I was the only one that asked, "Where is this guy?" And the answer was, "Well, he's not with the team today." And he had a personal problem he had to take care of.
Tim Kurkjian (29:48):
So, that's the first curiosity. You got to check every locker to make sure the 25 guys are on the team are actually at the ballpark that day. Those are the little checks and balances that I made every day.
Tim Kurkjian (30:00):
So, when I got in the clubhouse at 3:30 for a seven o'clock game, and Todd, back then in the late 70s, early 80s, you could stay in the clubhouse from 3:30 to 6:30 if you wanted to.
Tim Kurkjian (30:11):
In fact, I heard a story the other day about Bob Klapisch, great New York baseball writer, was in the Mets clubhouse once, and it was 6:40 and the game started at seven. And Davey Johnson, the manager of the Mets, said, "Klap, you got to get out of here. We're having a team meeting."
Tim Kurkjian (30:30):
And then Davey looked at him and said, "Don't worry, you could stay." So, he stayed for the team meeting and then he went up and covered the game.
Tim Kurkjian (30:37):
And Todd, as you know, now, before a game, if you get 45 minutes in the clubhouse it's a gift, otherwise you got to go to the antiseptic interview room, talk to the manager, with 30 other people in the room.
Tim Kurkjian (30:54):
When I first started covering, I would get to go sit next to Earl Weaver on the bench, sometimes for an hour at a time, sometimes by myself for 30 minutes. And I would pick-
Todd Jones (31:06):
Okay, give us a Weaver story that you recall.
Tim Kurkjian (31:08):
The greatest experience of my life. Of course, well, there are a million of them, but the first one-
Todd Jones (31:15):
That's fine.
Tim Kurkjian (31:15):
First one is a bad one. It's going to require a bad language here, but it needs to be said. Dan Shaughnessy took me to the ballpark. I'm 23-years-old and I'm covering baseball really in the major leagues for the first time.
Tim Kurkjian (31:31):
And he introduces me to Earl Weaver for the first time and says, "Earl, this is Tim. He's going to be covering the team occasionally when I'm off for a day." Earl Weaver looks at me, third greatest manager of all time, looks me and says, "Fuck you, Tim." And walks away.
Tim Kurkjian (31:50):
And I almost started to cry right there. And Dan looks at me, he goes, "Don't worry. That's what Earl does with all the people that he likes." And I say "Likes, he just met me three seconds ago."
Tim Kurkjian (32:00):
Earl was the greatest, Todd, he was the greatest. And the only danger with Earl was he was so good after a game, that all the beat writers would go down with an idea, this is what I'm going to write about.
Tim Kurkjian (32:14):
But every once in a while I didn't have a great idea on how to write this game story. And I would go downstairs and say, "Well, Earl is going to carry me. He's going to carry all of us. He's going to give something that's so quotable or so interesting or so crazy. That's what I'm going to write about." That was the only danger with Earl.
Tim Kurkjian (32:31):
But the other great story, the only other one you need to know about Earl is not all of his players loved him, but he was great at what he did. And Earl could be a little bit rude and crude at times, but I loved every bit of it because he was an old school baseball guy. So, he had a player on his team-
Todd Jones (32:47):
No, I remember Pat Kelly.
Tim Kurkjian (32:48):
Pat Kelly years ago, long before you Todd, who is an outfielder. Of course, you do. So, Pat Kelly is an outfielder on the Orioles and while still playing, he has made this decision to join-
Todd Jones (33:02):
Wait, wait, wait, wait. He's going to join the ministry?
Tim Kurkjian (33:04):
So, he waits for the proper moment.
Todd Jones (33:08):
Okay.
Tim Kurkjian (33:09):
While he's still at outfielder on the Orioles. So, he's waiting for the perfect moment, the most poignant moment to go tell Earl about his big plans now for his life.
Tim Kurkjian (33:23):
He finally gets the moment he goes to Earl, and he says, "Earl, I'm going to walk with the Lord." And Earl said, "I'd rather you walk with the bases loaded," which classic Earl somebody opens their heart to him, and he only cares about we going to score a run on a walk.
Tim Kurkjian (33:41):
That was Earl. I have a million Earl stories. It would cover the rest of the podcast for two days. That's how enjoyable it was. But again, he taught me so much-
Todd Jones (33:52):
Well, that's the type of access-
Tim Kurkjian (33:54):
Stuff that I remember and-
Todd Jones (33:55):
That played into learning about covering your beat. And again, I feel for people who don't have that type of access now and are just joining a beat at a young age.
Todd Jones (34:04):
But when you're young and you're around a clubhouse and you got guys willing to talk to you and teach you about the game, you just become a better reporter, which is ultimately better for the fans.
Tim Kurkjian (34:20):
Absolutely, we're the eyes and ears of the fans at home. And I took that responsibility very seriously.
Tim Kurkjian (34:27):
And again, Todd, you know this, but you go into a clubhouse today, and I'm not being critical because I really do enjoy talking to the players today, but they're not standing at their locker like they did 42 years ago when I first started.
Tim Kurkjian (34:40):
They have a lunchroom; they have a private room to go to. They have no obligation to be sitting at their locker.
Tim Kurkjian (34:47):
Back when I covered the Rangers in the Orioles, they had nowhere to go. They were sitting at their locker. There's Buddy Bell, there's Larry Parrish, there's Charlie Hough. I had a pick in the litter every single day.
Tim Kurkjian (34:59):
Same with the Orioles. There's Cal Ripken, there's Eddie Murray. So, those things have really changed and I think, sorry, it has hurt the reader. Hurt the viewer because we just don't get as much time with these guys as we used to.
Todd Jones (35:10):
You mentioned Ripken and I wanted to ask you specifically about Cal Ripken Jr. Now, here is a guy that you didn't have to check his locker. He was there every day, day after day after day, obviously famous for the streak.
Todd Jones (35:23):
What was he like to cover as a beat guy? And then later at your time at Sports Illustrated, you would come in. So, you had a working relationship with him, like a foundational relationship. What was it like to cover a famous guy like Ripken?
Tim Kurkjian (35:41):
Well, I loved every second of it, first as a beat writer, because I recognized very quickly just how observant and analytical he was. There wasn't a play in a game that he could possibly miss.
Tim Kurkjian (35:58):
And then when I went to Sports Illustrated and I covered the whole Lou Gehrig chase, it was still the most powerful night I've ever spent in a ballpark. Cal Ripken just showed baseball, this is how you're supposed to conduct yourself.
Tim Kurkjian (36:13):
But, if I may, Todd, this is very self-serving. I accidentally ended up in a basketball game with him and I ended up playing a bunch of basketball with him in the off season, which is a raging conflict of interest.
Tim Kurkjian (36:26):
I shouldn't have done it. You're not supposed to socialize with guys who you are covering on the beat. But it seemed okay because it was an athletic competition.
Tim Kurkjian (36:34):
But let me just show you how much I learned about him, the baseball player, by playing basketball with him. We're playing in the dingy dinky little gym. There are only 10 of us, so it's five on five if you lose the game, you get to play the next game.
Tim Kurkjian (36:50):
In other words, there's no pressure. You don't have to sit if you lose, everyone will do whatever it takes to not sit in a pickup game.
Tim Kurkjian (36:57):
So, it's 14 to 14, the game's straight to 15, and Ripken literally calls a timeout in the smallest pickup game ever, calls his team over to the side to try to formulate a plan where they're going to score the final bucket and win.
Tim Kurkjian (37:14):
Well, they miss the shot, we get the rebound, we score. And he is furious that he lost a pickup game in the dingiest dinkiest little gym, in a really low-level pickup game.
Tim Kurkjian (37:27):
The other thing I learned from him is, if we were on opposite teams, he would occasionally love to pick me up at one end line and guard-
Todd Jones (37:41):
Full court pressure, huh?
Tim Kurkjian (37:42):
Face to face all the way down the court. And I repeat full court press in the smallest pickup game ever. He's a foot taller than me, weighs a hundred pounds more than I do. And he enjoyed seeing, and-
Todd Jones (37:55):
Could he? Wait a minute. Could he?
Tim Kurkjian (37:56):
He could stay in front of the dinky little sportswriter down the court. Finally, I just I was a little too small for him.
Tim Kurkjian (38:03):
Now, once I got to the rim, he would swat it into the third row. But the point is, finally, I just looked at him and I said, "Would you please just leave me alone? Would you please stop trying for one second?" And he said, "No."
Tim Kurkjian (38:18):
And that's who he was. That's who he still is. If there's a competition, we're going to play it correctly and my team's going to win.
Tim Kurkjian (38:28):
Joe Orsulak, former player, covered him with the Orioles, told me not too long ago that in retirement, way into retirement, he played Ripken in ping pong. And I didn't know that Joe Orsulak was like a three-state champion in high school and he beat Ripken in ping pong, 24 games in a row.
Todd Jones (38:45):
24 games.
Tim Kurkjian (38:46):
And he said, "He would not leave my house until he won." And he said, "He won the 25th game at two o'clock in the morning and then he went home."
Tim Kurkjian (38:56):
Todd, as you know, it's a common denominator of every great athlete we've ever met, whether it's Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods-
Todd Jones (39:04):
You mentioned the night he broke the streak. And some of the writers that we've interviewed, a couple of them have mentioned that night also. And they said it was a little weird because you knew it was going to happen.
Todd Jones (39:14):
It wasn't something, a guy hits a home run, you don't know when it's going to happen. You know he is going to walk out under the field and it's going to break the record. And still it had the impact that it had on you. Why?
Tim Kurkjian (39:32):
Well, because it was a story that was way more than a baseball story. It was a story about commitment and loyalty and discipline and neighborhood. And that's who Cal Ripken represented well beyond baseball greatness.
Tim Kurkjian (39:49):
So, my buddy Bob Elliott, who's from Toronto, one of my dear friends in the world, he comes down and shows up on the morning of 21, 31. And he doesn't know Ripken particularly well, so he hasn't been a part of all the buildup that led to the morning of 21, 31.
Tim Kurkjian (40:07):
He looks at me before the game starts, just like you said, he says, "Tim, I don't get it. I don't see it, I don't feel it, I don't get it. What is the big deal? He's going to run out and break the record."
Tim Kurkjian (40:18):
I said, "Bob, I don't know what's going to happen, but I promise you once that banner comes down from the warehouse in right field, something's going to happen. And I don't even know what it is."
Tim Kurkjian (40:28):
So, the banner comes down, Bobby Bonilla and Rafael Palmeiro push Ripken out on the field and he makes this unforgettable 22-minute run around the stadium.
Tim Kurkjian (40:41):
There are people patting their hearts, there are people weeping in the crowd. Ripken is absolutely — he can't even understand what to do. It is such a powerful moment for all of us.
Tim Kurkjian (40:54):
He points at his wife and children. It was so good. It's the most powerful night I've ever spent in a major league ballpark. And when it was over Bob Elliott, the same guy who said, I don't get it, I don't get it, came up to me and he said, with tears in his eyes, he said, "Okay, now I get it." That's what that night was all about.
Todd Jones (41:13):
I just got chills when you retold it.
Tim Kurkjian (41:15):
And it was-
Todd Jones (41:16):
Brought back memories for me. I was not there, but as a baseball lover, I was there in spirit and sometimes we're fortunate to be there as a worker. And you were there every World Series game since 1982.
Todd Jones (41:30):
Sports Illustrated from 1989 to ‘97 after your beat years, and then obviously onto ESPN where you've been 25 years, you have seen some of the greatest baseball moments of the last half century.
Todd Jones (41:43):
What else stands out, moments that when you think about it, and I'm thinking about it through the prism of working in that moment, maybe as a writer on deadline or doing a analysis at the game, what moments hit you because of the way they tied to your work?
Tim Kurkjian (42:06):
Well, the '91 game seven of the World Series was the one moment that I'll never forget as far as tying work to where I was. I'm sitting in the upper deck next to Steve Rushin-
Todd Jones (42:20):
What a great lyrical writer. Yeah, for Sports Illustrator then.
Tim Kurkjian (42:23):
Genius. The smartest and funniest person I've ever met. And I'm sorry, the single greatest writer in the world.
Todd Jones (42:32):
And this is Game seven. Twins are hosting the Atlanta Braves.
Tim Kurkjian (42:36):
At the Metrodome, and we're watching. Game seven, right. And remember both teams had finished in last place the year before, and now they're in game seven of the World Series.
Tim Kurkjian (42:49):
And the first six games had been spectacularly good and now we're watching Jack Morris end up throwing a one to nothing shutout in 10 innings.
Tim Kurkjian (43:02):
And I'm sitting right next to Steve Rushin, and he is yelling at me over what we're watching. And the Metrodome is so loud, I can't even hear him. I'm trying to work, and I can't even hear my buddy next to me.
Tim Kurkjian (43:18):
So, we decide afterwards that he's going to write the game story because no one, but no one wrote a better game story than Steve Rushin. So, I'm writing the sidebar on Jack Morris's tenanting shutout in game seven of the World Series, as we know, Todd, that-
Todd Jones (43:34):
It wouldn't even happen in May.
Tim Kurkjian (43:35):
Would never happen today. It will probably never happen again.
Tim Kurkjian (43:39):
Right. So, after the game, I go down and I talk to all the Twins and Randy Bush, one of my favorites on the Twins. I said, "Well what about that?" Because Tom Kelly came to get Jack Morris in the ninth inning of that game, to take him out.
Tim Kurkjian (43:55):
And Jack Morris talked him out of it. And Randy Bush told me after the game, he said, "If he had taken Jack Morris out of that game, it would've been the first time in major league history that a player ever killed his manager on the mound because Jack Morris was not coming out of that game."
Tim Kurkjian (44:15):
And of course, he finished it. So, all these people I understand, who look at Jack Morris's career numbers and say he's not a Hall of Famer, I get it. I know what you're saying. I voted for him every year as eligible.
Tim Kurkjian (44:28):
They needed to be there that night at the Metrodome to watch a guy in a nothing, nothing game saying, “I'm not coming out after seven, I'm not coming out after nine.”
Todd Jones (44:38):
What a performance.
Tim Kurkjian (44:38):
“This is my game and I'm going to finish it.”
Todd Jones (44:40):
It's an amazing thing to think about even now, all these years later, that a guy willed himself to that type of performance and his team.
Tim Kurkjian (44:48):
Inconceivable, inconceivable.
Todd Jones (44:51):
Well, sometimes you had a great moment and I think about like say the 2016 World Series. It's game seven in Cleveland.
Todd Jones (45:00):
Cubs, Indians, at the time they were called the Indians. I'm sitting there on deadline five minutes ago and they rolled a tarp out onto the field, five minutes before my deadline. And I'm thinking "You've got to be shitting me."
Todd Jones (45:13):
So, sometimes the greatest moments aren't so great if you're working the game. Right?
Tim Kurkjian (45:22):
Right. And Todd, I think, and I may be overstating here, but I think you could make a case that in some ways that was the biggest night in Major League history.
Tim Kurkjian (45:33):
More people of course, watched that game than any game in Major League history.
Tim Kurkjian (45:38):
And I'm not suggesting it was bigger in a way than Yankees, Pirates in 1960, game seven. But this is a team that hadn't won since 1948. And another team that hadn't won since 1908.
Tim Kurkjian (45:51):
We had six sensational games leading to game seven. The weather in Cleveland on that night was so perfect. Rajai Davis hit a three-run homer off of a rollers … he hadn't have hit a homer in two months and — hadn’t given up a homer in three months-
Todd Jones (46:04):
Yeah. That was basically a define delete moment. Defined those paragraphs and get rid of them.
Tim Kurkjian (46:12):
Right. And this is where I am slapping my forehead 10 times during a game. How can this happen? And then the tarp goes on the field.
Tim Kurkjian (46:23):
And the backstory is that now the Cubs are going into the clubhouse and Chris Bosio, the pitching coach for the Cubs, says to Jason Heyward, who's certainly one of the leaders on the team, you have to go talk to the team.
Tim Kurkjian (46:37):
So, he made this very short, impassioned speech that, we're the better team here. We've worked all our careers and all the season for this moment, so let's go out there and take it.
Tim Kurkjian (46:49):
And they ended up winning that game in one of the greatest game sevens in Major league history. I will never forget it.
Tim Kurkjian (46:56):
And David Ross, my dear friend, hit a home run in that game and then retired. He is the only player ever to hit a home run in game seven of the World Series and then retire after the series. It was filled with moments like that … one of the greatest nights I’ve ever-
Todd Jones (47:14):
Well, that nugget of information, it's one of the things that make you a legendary reporter on baseball because you have always been able to find these little tidbits of information, tiny details, and unearth them and then appreciate them and get us to understand and appreciate them.
Todd Jones (47:32):
And this is really something I think my understanding is that it began in the late eighties with you and your good friend Jason Stark, another Hall of Fame baseball writer.
Todd Jones (47:40):
You guys would basically do weekly notes and you had these phone calls, right? On Fridays you would call each other digging up information. And this is before the internet, before baseball reference even.
Tim Kurkjian (47:57):
Yeah. And we were looking up stuff on our own. There was no Elias Sports Bureau to call every five minutes like I do sometimes now, if I need something. Looked up from 1899, Jason is somebody that really taught me how to look for things and where to look for things.
Tim Kurkjian (48:12):
Now, I had this natural curiosity, as I said, Todd, when I was five-years-old, all sorts of strange things happened when I was a teenager. And I would say, "How can this happen in a major league game? I want to know the last time this happened."
Tim Kurkjian (48:25):
I just took that into my career as a baseball writer. And this is why baseball's so beautiful. One of the million reasons is these incredible coincidences that that happened.
Tim Kurkjian (48:36):
Prince Fielder finished his career with exactly as many home runs, 319 as his father. Seriously, how do you explain that? How do you explain that Dennis Eckersley picked off Kenny Williams in a game and then went three and a half years without picking off anyone. And then he picked off Kenny Williams again. That can't happen.
Tim Kurkjian (48:58):
It can't happen that Stan Musial had exactly as many hits on the road as he did at home. And it cannot happen that the Red Sox won. This is in the early 2000s, I'll be close, back-to-back games with a walk off homer.
Tim Kurkjian (49:13):
So, I started my research, "When's the last time the Red Sox won back-to-back games with a walk off homer?" And here's the answer I ended up coming up with in 1935, Wes Ferrell, who was a pitcher, hit a home run in the bottom of the ninth inn, a starting pitcher who's still batting in the bottom of the ninth.
Tim Kurkjian (49:35):
He might be the greatest hitting pitcher ever. He hits a walk off homer to win a major league game as a starting pitcher. And then the next day he comes up as a pitcher and hits another walk off homer. So, last time the Red Sox had done that was like 70 years earlier, it was one guy-
Todd Jones (49:55):
Well, back in these stone age date, how are you finding this stuff? How are you and Jason finding this stuff?
Tim Kurkjian (50:04):
Well, there used to be an encyclopedia, maybe it's still out. It's called the Cohn and Neft encyclopedia. And it's a soft bound encyclopedia. In other words, it's less weight than the real encyclopedia that came out, that I would carry around with me on the road. It weighed-
Todd Jones (50:24):
Oh, security loved you.
Tim Kurkjian (50:26):
And I would pack it, I would carry it with me pre-internet. Well, it was ridiculous. But yeah, so we would look up stuff by hand Jason and I, and I can't tell you how many times I would do just tireless work to look up a note that the Elias Sports Bureau now could find in literally a minute and a half.
Tim Kurkjian (50:49):
So, I have bowed to them on so many where I say, I don't have four hours to look this up. I'm going to go to the experts. I'm going to go to the official scorekeepers of major league baseball and they're going to help me.
Tim Kurkjian (51:00):
I've called the Elias more times than anybody in the history of the world because my natural curiosity still exists. And when I see something in the box score in the morning and I can't explain it, I will try to find it myself, if I can’t-
Todd Jones (51:13):
You have an Elias-
Tim Kurkjian (51:14):
I'll call the Elias, and they'll help me. It should be, I have a guy there, Frank, who's the greatest. He's like on call all the time. I never call him at three in the morning. I never call him after dinner time.
Tim Kurkjian (51:29):
But in the morning, he's used to getting a call from me to say, "Frank, we need to know the answer." And the good thing is he's equally intrigued. And that's what keeps me going is maybe I can't find the exact stat, but at least it's my curiosity-
Todd Jones (51:43):
Alright, Tim. My understanding is-
Tim Kurkjian (51:45):
That got him looking for this stat.
Todd Jones (51:45):
That your diligence and your curiosity led you to clip the box score out of the newspaper every day of every season from 1990 through 2009. Is that correct?
Tim Kurkjian (52:07):
Yeah. I'm ashamed to say yes, it's absolutely correct. And I will tell you that I never missed a day. In other words, I never forgot to do it one day and did two days the next day every day without missing a day for 20 years, which I think we can all agree is way more impressive than any streak by Cal Ripken Jr.
Tim Kurkjian (52:28):
So, I did this, Todd, because I became a national baseball writer in 1990 at Sports Illustrator. I'm no longer the beat guy and I only have to truly worry about the Oriole statistics. I got to know everyone.
Tim Kurkjian (52:41):
So, by cutting out every box score every day when I would take a trip from DC my home to San Diego and I'm going to see the Padres and I haven't seen them in a month and a half, I can look at every box score that they played.
Tim Kurkjian (52:54):
Now I know kind of how they're using their bullpen. I know what they're doing in the platoon and right field. It was absolutely imperative for me to do that. I took it of course, way too far.
Tim Kurkjian (53:07):
I estimated that I wasted 35 days of my life in the time it took me to get the box scores, cut them out, tape them in my notebook, like I was eight-years-old.
Tim Kurkjian (53:17):
And one night, this is so pathetic, you're going to hang up when you hear this. 11:45 at night, I have forgotten to do box score book. I mean my box score book. And I am in absolute horror that this has happened.
Tim Kurkjian (53:32):
I jump out of bed, my wife looks at me like, I know where you're going. I go into my office, clip out my box scores, tape them in the book, go back to bed. And she looks at me like, "How could I have married such an unfathomable geek?"
Tim Kurkjian (53:45):
That's what it was like when I cut out all the box scores and I only quit because as you know, Todd, the newspaper industry was dying at that point. I could only get five box scores, maybe six in my East Coast newspaper. And it took me way too much time running down the ones from the next day's paper. It was terrible.
Tim Kurkjian (54:07):
I should have quit, by the way, because I used to put all my notebooks up on the shelf in my closet above all my clothes. And I cut home from a trip once and the weight in my box score books had collapsed the shelf. And all of my suits and clothes are on the ground when I get home covered with plaster.
Tim Kurkjian (54:31):
And it's hard to find a 38 short on the rack by the way, and here are all my clothes on the ground cover with plaster, with weighed boxes, three for five and every other box score strewn among them.
Tim Kurkjian (54:44):
That should have been a reminder that I have to stop doing this. But two years later, I finally stopped, and I don't want to be corny about this, when I didn't have my box score with me that first year-
Todd Jones (54:55):
And you missed it. Do you still have those books?
Tim Kurkjian (54:57):
And I really missed it. And that's how it went.
Tim Kurkjian (55:02):
I have some of them. Again, I'm not going to collapse another closet here in my office, but I have several of them. But now that I have the internet, I can go back and check that game that the Orioles played on October 1st, 1987. And I can find it quicker than it would take, basically.
Todd Jones (55:20):
Well, Jason has said that they're like the Dead Sea Scrolls-
Tim Kurkjian (55:24):
And looking at a hard copy.
Tim Kurkjian (55:29):
Well, it's okay. Todd, it worked for me. And we all know on the beat and-
Todd Jones (55:34):
Well, it certainly did work for you. And-
Tim Kurkjian (55:36):
Whatever works for you, you stay with it.
Tim Kurkjian (55:37):
When you think about it, data stats, data analysis now has grown. It's just another way to appreciate the game. But really it also gets back to the characters who play the game.
Todd Jones (55:50):
It's the people and the moments that you witness. That's what ties it all together. And do you have a favorite all-time character, a favorite go-to guy in terms of just talking baseball?
Tim Kurkjian (56:08):
Well, Cal Ripken is probably that guy, but a very close number two is Tony Gwynn. When you go talk to Tony Gwynn, it would be like the conversation, Todd, that you and I are having. It's a conversation. It's not a question-and-answer period.
Tim Kurkjian (56:23):
It's Tony and I bouncing things back and forth. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I sat with him and I learned so much just talking to him.
Tim Kurkjian (56:33):
For instance, he told me in 1994, the area at 394 that he used one bat the entire season. Now he only kept it out for hard throwing left-handers who might get the ball in on him, someone like Jeff Fassero. But that was very few and far between.
Tim Kurkjian (56:53):
Otherwise, he used one bat, he used to call it seven grains of pain because of the damage that he did. One bat the whole year.
Tim Kurkjian (57:03):
Pete Incaviglia told me once he broke 144 bats one year, that's 12 dozen, 144 because he just overpowered the bat with the skinny handle and the barrel the size of a canned ham.
Tim Kurkjian (57:16):
But Tony had a little bat, big handle. And he just hit line drives all over the place. So, he broke that bat, the next spring training, hitting on a back field alone with Rob Picciolo, one of the coaches. He broke it in batting practice.
Tim Kurkjian (57:36):
And Tony looks at me and he goes, "I almost started to cry." And Rob Picciolo told me, "I almost start to cry also."
Tim Kurkjian (57:43):
That's how good Tony Gwynn was. And that's one of a million stories I could tell you about him. He was just the guy I wanted to sit down and talk to more than anyone because he was a character, but because his baseball IQ was-
Todd Jones (57:59):
Well, I do remember I was fortunate when I was working in Cincinnati years and the Padres came into town and I sat with Tony at Old Riverfront Stadium and had a one-on-one.
Todd Jones (58:08):
And I remember looking back on it now again with the time and perspective to think about this and thinking, “I'm this geek who's playing dice baseball games as a kid. And now I'm sitting here having a half hour conversation about hitting with Tony Gwynn.”
Todd Jones (58:25):
And that's where you start to appreciate what baseball can do for you if you are fortunate enough to have the type of access that we had and to do the work that we did.
Tim Kurkjian (58:37):
Right, right. And Todd, I I'm sorry I I'm going to have to be very self-serving here because you're in Cincinnati and you know this guy very well. But when I was honored by the Hall of Fame with the award that you referenced at the beginning, the next day, Johnny Bench called me at my house, at 8:30 in the morning and said, "Tim, congratulations. Welcome to the club. You're one of us, now."
Tim Kurkjian (59:08):
Let's be clear, Todd, I'm not one of them. I'm not in that club. They're the players. I'm a writer. I'm way over here.
Tim Kurkjian (59:16):
But still the greatest catcher of all time called me to congratulate me. And then his voice got very soft, and he said to me very poignantly, he said, "Tim, it's moments like this that take you back to little league." And I was just about ready to cry again.
Tim Kurkjian (59:35):
He said, "And let's face it, Tim you could-
Todd Jones (59:37):
Well then, I think last July when you were in Cooperstown after you gave your speech, at the hotel, Bench approached you. Tell us what happened.
Tim Kurkjian (59:47):
Right, yes. Oh God, Todd, most powerful professional moment of my career, I make my speech. Thank God, I didn't butcher it. I got through it. It was so difficult. I was so scared.
Tim Kurkjian (01:00:01):
We get back to the Otesaga and Johnny Bench comes up to me, gives me one of these and says, come with me. We go out on the back porch on the veranda of the Otesaga Hotel overlooking the most majestic lake you can possibly see.
Tim Kurkjian (01:00:17):
And he says to me, "I want you to sit down next to me." And he said, "I want you to look at that lake. I don't want you to say a word for one minute. I want you to think about where you are, how you got here, and who helped get you here."
Tim Kurkjian (01:00:35):
So, I sat next to the greatest catcher of all time, just the two of us. And I looked at that lake for one minute and I teared up again because this is what Johnny Bench does for all the first time Hall of Fame players. He takes them out there, so they can understand where they are and how they got here.
Tim Kurkjian (01:00:57):
This time he did it for a baseball writer. And I can't even begin to tell you how powerful that was.
Todd Jones (01:01:01):
Well, what a special moment. Again, chills just thinking about that and really this podcast with talking to writers about the moments like that, that they experience through their careers.
Todd Jones (01:01:12):
This is my chance to sit by a lake and talk to Hall of Famers such as yourself, Tim. And I really appreciate your time and I just appreciate your enthusiasm for love of the game and the work that you've provided fans for all these years, your real inspiration and one of the most respected and great guys in the business.
Tim Kurkjian (01:01:36):
Well, thank you so much for having me, Todd. And again, I am here because I love the game. This isn't any sort of great talent or anything else. It's a love for the game that has carried me this far and I hope it carries me for many more years because I-
Todd Jones (01:01:51):
Rock on, Tim,
Tim Kurkjian (01:01:51):
I just love to be at the ballpark.
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