Stash: My Life in Hiding with Laura Cathcart Robbins

Annmarie Kelly:

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[Music Playing]

As most of you already know, I'm a Gen X child of the ‘80s and ‘90s. I still know my way around a roller skating rink. And if you're looking to compile a playlist for an I love you, but I'm too afraid to tell you mixtape, I'm your girl.

But my age also, means I possess some other less cool attributes. I still text in grammatically complete, well punctuated sentences. I still write checks, and I'm still a product of the Nancy Reagan “Just Say No” anti-drug campaigns of my youth. That was the slogan we were taught. “Just Say No.”

There were cautionary afterschool specials and these commercials where some guy held up an egg and said, “This is your brain.” And then he cracked the egg and fried it in a pan and said, “This is your brain on drugs.”

I rewatched that ad recently. I'd forgotten its last line. Yes, the guy cracks and cooks the egg, but the last thing he says is, “Any questions?” Except he doesn't say it in a way that actually invites any questions at all.

I understand that we simplify things when we talk to children, but when I think back on what I was taught as a kid about drugs, the unintended consequences of that phrase, “Just Say No” were that it made addiction seem like a personal failing rather than a medical condition or something you could honestly ask questions about.

When we watched those brain fried commercials, we internalized that addiction was only a foolish mistake.

There wasn't any counter narrative, no discussion of childhood trauma, or intergenerational poverty, or the kinds of systemic forces that might have contributed to any one individual's drug use. We learned to blame and not to ask any questions.

We haven't talked much about addiction on this show, in part, I think because those stories belong to the people who choose to tell or not tell them.

But over the years, I've worked with students who've battled addiction, and I've had members of my own extended family contend with their difficult relationships to drugs and alcohol.

And what I can firmly say is I've never met anyone who said, “I think I'd like to destroy my brain today.” Rather, people are a product of their circumstances. Expose anyone to enough abuse, trauma, neglect, or fear, and booze and pills might feel like a kind of harbor in a storm.

So, I'm honored today to welcome our guest who is choosing to tell her story. Laura Cathcart Robbins had everything going for her. A beautiful home, great kids, a Hollywood marriage, but she still found herself trapped inside secrecy and addiction.

And she's here to talk to us about it. And I'm grateful to listen to her story and to even be able to ask questions. Laura Cathcart Robbins is the bestselling author of the memoir, Stash: My Life in Hiding, and the host of the popular podcast, The Only One In The Room.

Her essays about race, recovery, and divorce have garnered worldwide acclaim. She is a 2022 TEDx speaker and LA Moth StorySLAM winner.

Currently, she sits on the advisory boards of The San Diego Writers Festival and the Outliers HQ Podcast Festival.

Laura Cathcart Robbins, welcome to Wild Precious Life.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Excited to be here.

Annmarie Kelly:

Well, we're grateful to be sharing time and space. I mean, of course, as a woman in the podcasting world, I know your name, I know the show that you co-host, The Only One In The Room.

And now, you've written a memoir. It's in entitled, Stash: My Life in Hiding, about an addiction to drugs and alcohol and your difficult, difficult journey through that and into sobriety.

Thank you for your willingness to be here today, and talk about this really vulnerable and beautiful story.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Well, thank you for teeing that up with those kind words. I really appreciate that. It is an addiction memoir, but I also, like to let people know that for me, it was more of a memoir about my departure from living authentically and my journey back toward it.

And in its essence, the addiction was absolutely important to write about in a huge part of my life. The book takes place in a 10 month time period in the year 2008.

And during which time I ended a marriage and entered treatment for drug and alcohol addiction, and started a new relationship, which is actually my current relationship almost 15 years later.

I was a mom of two spirited boys, very energetic, very fantastic, fantastic kids who really just didn't sleep very much when they were babies. And I was the Parent Association president. I had just been asked to join the board at this very elite private Los Angeles school.

The life I lived was the life that I thought, “If I have all this, if I have the access to private jets, if I go to premieres, if I'm at dinner parties seated next to celebrities, then everything will be great.”

And I never dreamed I would have that life. I always thought but if I did, all my problems would be solved.

And I did. I had this life, I was married to someone in the entertainment industry who made that life possible, and I was dying inside.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah. And so, in the book, you talk about this addiction to a sleeping pill, correct?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Yes.

Annmarie Kelly:

It was that your kids were little, you weren't sleeping. Any parent who's had children knows the nightmare of that. You're just at your worst self.

And so, you come to this drug, I felt like quite honestly. A doctor says, “You're not sleeping? Here, why don't you take this pill?”

What did that feel like to take this pill at first and then what did it transform into?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Yeah. I did come by that pill, honestly. I was not drug seeking at the time. I really thought that I was headed for some type of massive breakdown because I just hadn't been able to sleep. And my nerves were so frayed and I was so on edge all the time.

And the way I describe kind of the year and a half leading up to that first pill was as if I had an alarm bell ringing in my head as loud as it could all the time. Like it was never quiet. Whether I dozed off or not, the alarm bell was still ringing there and then taking that first pill silenced it.

And I hadn't experienced that in so long. It was bliss. It was silky, it was squishy, it was warm. I describe it as like golden oil coating my throat and my head.

Like I can still feel in my body how that pill felt. Again, it was something that I didn't even know was possible. I didn't even know somebody could feel like that.

And then when I woke up the next morning or came to … I don't know, I feel like I just don't remember anything from the time that I felt that to the time that I woke up. I was full of energy and I could be warm, and compassionate, and giving to my kids. I felt like the mother that I'd always wanted to be, the mother that I knew that I could be.

And I was given a bottle of 30 pills. Those 30 pills lasted me for a year. I took them as treats. Like I took probably three in a row as the doctors prescribed to reset my system. And then I would wait until I could really enjoy it. It was like a mini vacation for me. And I would take one of those pills.

And then the following year I was … and these aren't like neat 365 day periods. But approximately a year later, I was taking one per night because he said it was okay. And by the way, he wasn't wrong. This was not a doctor that over-prescribed drugs. He was not one of those doctor feel goods at all.

I had a legitimate case. I presented very well. I was better with the pills than without them. And so, he's like, “That's fine, you can take one a night.”

But by the second and third year, it was like one and a half to get to sleep, and then sometimes a half a one in the middle of the night to get back to sleep because my tolerance was growing.

I didn't know much about that, but I could feel it happening. It happens in areas of my life. Like it happens with exercise now. I'll do the same thing over and over again, and I'm not any stronger or I don't have any more stamina because there's a tolerance that's happened.

But by year six, and that's the year I write about, that's the year 2008, I was taking as many as I could strategically getting them from different doctors of mine. So, I was taking 10 Ambien mostly at night. But in a 24 hour period I was taking 10 Ambien.

And I couldn't take them during the day because I would go to sleep, but I would need something in my system all the time. So, I would kind of chip at them like a corner here and a corner there.

Before I gave that big parent association speech, I would need a corner of one so that I could not have shaky hands and no eye contact because the withdrawal was horrendous.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah, no, I thought that your description of being a parent who's just exhausted. I have three kiddos, I remember just the full on torture of that. The sitting on the edge of the bed, not sure if you're getting up or going back to sleep because you're so tired, you can't remember, “Am I getting up to feed the baby or did I already do that?”

And in the daytime, you aren't the vision of yourself that you thought you'd be. You had all these plans, at least I did, about the mom I was going to be.

The one who made her own baby food, the one who never watched television with the children. We were only going to read books and sing song. And you can't do any of it because you're just so tired.

So, your way into this just made so much sense to me. I could understand it, I could picture it. And then the needing a little bit more. Did it ever feel scary to you? Or were you always so kind of like on the Ambien that you didn't feel scared of it?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

So, there was absolute terror and fear, but it was conflated with the fact that my marriage was going badly. That we weren't connecting, just that things … I was headed for a divorce basically. So, being scared all the time, I couldn't ID what that was exactly.

I know now, with the perspective I have, that I was absolutely scared of where that was going. And I was also, scared of losing my marriage. But at the time, it was … and probably the addiction that I was now, deeply in by this sixth year.

So, in my mind, the what my experience, my addiction talked to me and soothed me and said things like, “It'll be okay. It's not that bad. You can just do it tonight. Tomorrow will be different. We won't take any.”

So, it was like this rationalization, minimization, and justification that would come along as soon as I had the thought that maybe this is something I should really look at. So, those three things would intervene right away.

So, all I was really aware of was the fear of losing my marriage and what that might look like. But I know that deep down I knew that this was something scary.

Annmarie Kelly:

That decision to end a marriage is difficult enough when you're at your best. And when you do realize it's time to check yourself into rehab and you do this brave thing, you set a date, you pay your money and you tell your legal team, you're going.

I understand where they were coming from, but at the same time they tell you, “No, no, no, no, no, you can't go to rehab. If you go to rehab, it's going to look like you're an unfit mother. If you go to rehab, you're going to risk losing your children. You have to wait.”

And I understood where they were coming from there, it's their job to fight on your behalf. But I was so angry at them because you finally had decided to get help and the legal team is telling you no. What did that feel like?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

It was shocking, honestly. I was so not expecting that when I walked in to tell my attorney that she was going to try to dissuade me from going or postpone it. And I hired someone with this shark reputation. I should have probably anticipated it.

But also, up until that moment, all I did was anticipate. Everything was strategy, everything was hustle for me. And so, I made this decision that I was going to go on July 4th of 2008. My check-in date was July 10th. So, for those six days … is that six days?

Annmarie Kelly:

Sure. We'll call it six days. Carry the one. Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

I had to do everything to get ready to go. Like that was my window. And with her, I was really thinking that she was going to be like, “Oh. honey, I'm so sorry. What can I do to help?” And instead she was pissed, she was angry.

And she finally was like, “Okay, we can spin this. Let's figure it out.” But yeah, I was shocked at her response.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah. So, they tell you, you can't go to rehab because you're not going to be able to be a mom. And you're like, you don't understand, “I'm not going to be able to a mom if I don't go to rehab.” And you held your ground. I was grateful that you fought for yourself.

I can envision some of the preparations you're making. You've got these children, who's going to take care of them? And then the schedule that we all … who gets to saxophone practice and all the things.

But another thing that you're doing in that six days is you're packing up your Evian bottles full of alcohol and you're hiding pills, not just in the box of tampons, but in the individually wrapped feminine products that you were then hiding the pill and then gluing it back together. At first that seemed bananas to me.

You're going to rehab, it was an expensive program, and you are sabotaging yourself. And then I remembered, “Oh wait, well, you're an addict. You needed help, of course. Of course you're doing this.” But this story was actually just more evidence of that.

But for folks who aren't understanding that, why did you bring drugs to rehab?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

So, it is comical and I wrote it knowing that it's funny. Like I'm aware of how ridiculous it is as I'm writing about what I did. I hope it's kind of a lighter portion of the book because a lot of it is really heavy.

But I did it because what happened for me was every time I postponed getting well, stopping, my withdrawals would get worse. So, when I ran out of pills, the … and I don't know if I can properly explain how painful they were.

I talk about it like imagine the worst flu you can imagine with all the body aches, and headaches, and fatigue, but add in that the highest anxiety you can imagine. So, you're in this fatigue, basically dying body. My body was dying, but my mind was wired and hustling for more of what could get it well.

And so, I was jumpy, I was sleepy, but I couldn't sleep, I was in pain. And I was still the PTA president, I was still joining the board of this prestigious school. I was still throwing dinner parties, I was still playing tennis. I showed up for everything right up until the moment I left.

I had trainers, I had a tennis coach, I had lunch with the girls. Like I was doing everything. And then secretly enduring these withdrawals in private.

And I knew that when I got to treatment, they were not going to give me enough of whatever they were going to give me to keep me comfortable, that it was going to be excruciating.

So, my thinking was to soften that blow by bringing in stuff that would keep me comfortable while they were withdrawing me.

I know that doesn't make any sense, but at the time, it made perfect sense to me. The pills didn't work without alcohol for me. One, I had to have vodka, or I didn't have to have vodka, but I had to have booze in order for the pills to work. So, I had to sneak in booze. That was the tougher one.

Getting them in the tampons was very arts and craftsy, with my glue stick and my X-Acto knife. But I just didn't know like how am I going to … I can't walk in there with vodka. Like I don't know how I'm going to get that in there. So, that was a little trickier, but I figured it out.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah, yeah. I appreciated those moments of lightheartedness. You would think that if someone's cracking jokes about their time heading towards rehab, that it would somehow make this serious topic somehow less so.

But the fact is, it really, really hit home for me, the degree to which this was a 24-hour a day struggle that you were in.

And what is that everythingness about, do you think? Because you're right, you were killing it in all of these ways. You were doing what I guess we're told we're supposed to do.

Where does that come from? And have you ever been able to let go of some of that, do you think?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

I mean, I think for me, it came from my dealings when I was … my stepfather came into my life when I was five and who I was authentically really just rubbed him the wrong way. And it took me a while to see that while he wasn't a monster, I somehow unleashed the monster within him by me just being me.

So, this very performative aspect of my being happened. I started editing myself in front of him. I started adding in elements of myself outside of my home that weren't true.

Like for instance, my parents are happily married. My stepfather and my mother are happily married. Like we have this idealic home. That's what I presented outside of my home.

I didn't want anybody to suspect that he was like addicted to marijuana and put violent hands on my mom and was verbally violent toward me. So, I created this ideal life outside of my home and stayed as small as I could inside my home.

And I also, stayed outside my home a lot. I was very social. So, I was at friends' houses, I played soccer, I did pottery, I did guitar lessons. Like I did a lot of stuff to keep out of the house. I was very busy as a kid.

And I think I just carry that, the performance and the busyness with me throughout my life, because if I'm busy, people think I'm productive and therefore good. And if I present well, people put me on a pedestal and that's why I was brought into that leadership position at school.

I think that's part of the reason why my ex-husband married me, was because I presented this kind of perfect facade. It wasn't perfect, but I presented something that was really desirable.

I know now, that who I was authentically would have been just as desirable. Maybe not by him, who knows, but to other people. Like who I am authentically is dope, it's fantastic, but I didn't know that then. So, no one saw that person.

And thus, I think I built the scaffolding for my addiction because there was such a distance between who I was authentically and what I presented to the world. That busyness just kind of filled in that gap, it was part of it.

And the second part of your question, it was quite a process, letting that go. I'm still better when I'm busy, but I mindfully look at my day. I build in meditation every day. I build in time in my recovery. I build in time to read, which feels like doing nothing to me.

It really does. I'm reading and I think I should be watching the news too, or I should be on an elliptical while I'm read, like something. It doesn't feel like enough. It still feels foreign even almost 15 years later after getting sober. And not just from drugs and alcohol, but from busyness.

Annmarie Kelly:

Sure. When you get then to rehab, I mean, one of the things that they do is they slow all that down. Right? There's nowhere to go.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Yes.

Annmarie Kelly:

I mean, you're losing it there with the kumbaya circles. And you get there and like, “I'm going to have to leave.” Understandably so. You get there and like, “I've made a mistake. I don't want to be here anymore.”

But when you talk about vulnerability and the relationships that you made during that time, I think that authenticity that you're referring to, without those walls put up, without that illusion of busyness or perfection, the people who met you there during that time loved the woman you are.

And I think about the journey you've had since then, even while you were plotting how to move your Ambien script from California to Arizona, so you could pick it up on the way home from rehab, lady.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Of course, yes.

Annmarie Kelly:

The whole time I'm like, “Laura, no, no.”

[Music Playing]

Detoxing is no joke. And when you got there, one of the first things they did was continue to give you pills. I had not entirely fully understood the degree to which those were medically necessary for you. If you had just stopped, you probably would've died.

So, if you were taking 10 pills a day, they're like, “Alright, we're going to have nine today and eight tomorrow.” They stair stepped you down very, very carefully. And still, as you just talked about, that was excruciating for your body.

But one of my biggest red flags was that you met a gentleman there. You met Scott S. there. And I'm having the like … I'm like, “No, Laura, no. You can't meet a boy here. I'm sure that's in the paperwork.”

And yet I've listened to the podcast. I know about Scott S. Tell us about Scott S. just a little bit.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Oh, Scott S. So, yes, I arrive in rehab, it's 114 degrees. It's in Wickenburg, Arizona. There are tumbleweeds blowing around, the air taste like charcoal. Everyone in this orientation is a drunk, or a heroin addict, or has four DUIs, and I don't belong.

And I start to panic, like, “Oh my God, who's going to put my kids to bed tonight? They're going to miss me. Why didn't I plan this out better? I could've totally done this at home.” So, I want to leave.

And I end up talking to the director who like manipulates me into staying for a few days. I'm pissed about that.

And then there's Scott S. when I come back out in the waiting room, who grabbed my jacket in orientation where I bolted out of.

And he's this kind of young, blonde, blue eyed, Hawaiian shirt wearing dude. Absolutely not my type, like the furthest from my type that I could imagine.

Before I met my now ex-husband, I'd only ever dated black guys. I assumed I was going to marry a black guy. I had never been attracted to a white guy.

And then I met my ex-husband and fell in love with him. And we got married, but he's very like hip hop basketball, like a lot of his — he’s Brooklyn. Like he was just like he's that kind of like person.

And Scotty, was like coming from Utah and he was just like nobody that would've ever been on my radar. And he was pretty persistent about being my friend while we were there. Like he just kind of hung out with me.

And it's hard to describe and it might sound like I'm saying something to support like what I wanted to happen. But really truly, what happened for me there was he saved my life and he did it more than once.

Just by being there, by being compassionate, by reminding me why I was there, which was for my children. I was not there for myself. I was there for my children. And how was I going to return to them without being well?

And he never said it like that. He talked about his own two daughters and talked about how difficult it was. Like he was facing prison if he left early. And he really wanted to be around to raise his daughters.

And just something about him got through the chinks and the armor that I had built. And by the end, there was more light that I could see and there was possibility.

And I found myself being very attracted to him (especially toward the end of our stay) physically, as well as just like, “I want to sit next to this guy.” And I just didn't know how that was going to work.

He was going back to Utah. I was going back to LA. I had to finish getting divorced. My ex-husband still lived in my house.

Like there was no possible way a romance could bloom, but something was happening between us. Something that I had never experienced before. Something that wasn't happening with other people around us. I knew it was something special, but I didn't know what it meant or what was to come of it.

Annmarie Kelly:

Well, you guys met when a lot of your armor was down. You'd met people before with a certain look or with the mystique or the hustle and all these contexts. And you meet there surrounded by cows, and heat, and the smell of charcoal and there's nowhere to hide.

And I understand how that person could be important to you and continues to be. I won't give it all away since folks need to read the book.

So, you have done quite a bit of work to get to a point where you can tell this story. I feel like if you had written this in 2009, I don't know, I first off, that doesn't seem like it would've been safe for you to do, mentally or dramatically. That doesn't seem like it would've … the story hadn't worked through you yet.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

No, I could not have written this book in 2009. The other thing about writing this book is I really did want you to understand how it felt, which meant I had to go back and revisit those things to the point where I felt like I relived them.

Where I would sit there and I would say, “Okay, how did the glue feel on my fingers when I used that glue and the X-Acto knife? And what did it smell like? What did the glue smell like?”

I don't remember. I'll smell glue stick to see what it smelled like. Like really bring myself back to that, the terror that my kids are going to come up and catch me. Because they were downstairs watching Nickelodeon and I needed to get all these packed.

And where did I feel that terror? Was it in my stomach? Did it feel like fireworks? Did it feel like a gut punch? Like I would sit and meditate.

I wrote from 11:00 to 7:00 five days a week for six months. And that's how I finished the book. I wrote it from November of 2020, I finished it in April of 2021 and then turned it in.

So, during that time, I would meditate before I sat down at my computer and really think, “What am I writing today?” And then all those things I just mentioned, what did it taste like? What did it feel like? Where did I feel it? Where did I taste it on my tongue? What did I smell like?

All those things. And then I would just jot those things down and then I would start writing.

Annmarie Kelly:

Well, you managed to capture that sensory imagery. And I felt moments of this book very viscerally that when I found out how long it had been that your sons were grown for instant, I was shocked. Because you do successfully take us back there.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Oh, thank you.

Annmarie Kelly:

I'm thinking about sobriety in the circles that you would run with. Like you're in Southern California, it's always wine o'clock somewhere. I'm thinking of the auctions you surely must have had to attend for your son's school. And you probably were in charge of these things.

Any tips for how does the person navigate social drinking culture when you're trying to say sober?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

That's such a good question. I just went to a gala (Scotty and I went to a gala) on Saturday. And so, the first thing we do, I look at the schedule. There's cocktail hour from 6:00 to 7:00. I show up at 7:00, I avoid the cocktail hour.

There's just no point in me being there. It's not like I'm going to be like, “Oh, I want to drink the whole time.” But for a cocktail hour, I'm going to sit there and drink sparkling water with lime for an hour. It just doesn't make any sense. And I don't really care.

So, I avoid the cocktail hour, I cover my wine glass. Either I turn it over or I cover it. I ask them to take it away so people don't keep offering it to me.

I'm not tempted at all anymore. Now, if it were a party in a pharmacy, that might be a different story. I haven't been to one of those. But I'm not tempted by the alcohol at all. I just try to make it so that I'm not being questioned.

I'm also, plant-based and people are kind of … I don't say vegan because I wear leather, but I don't eat any animal products. And it's really similar. Like people will offer me something with cheese in it. And I'll say, “No, thanks. I don't eat animal products.”

And they're, “But why? And what about this? And have you ever considered this?” Like they really want to like get in there and fix it.

And it's the same thing with booze. It's like, “But wait, not even beer? Not even wine? But surely you have champagne when there's a celebration.” And I'm like, “Nope. That's all booze actually. And no, I don't drink at all.”

And they want to know why and they want to know how it is. And it's just so much easier when I don't have to give an explanation or even defend myself. And like I said, it's the exact same thing for being plant-based. People are like, “Can you eat that? And don't you miss cheese?”

Which I do, by the way. I miss it very much. But it's not helpful. That kind of conversation just isn't helpful. It's not helpful for me to get into my plant-based meal when everybody else is eating a steak. It’s not helpful for me to enjoy my seltzer when everybody else is enjoying a cocktail.

So, I like to just be kind of left alone and enjoy it the way I'm going to enjoy it. But I'm not tempted. If someone left their drink on the table, it's never crossed my mind like, “I should down that really quick before they get back.”

Annmarie Kelly:

And do you remember, was it always that way? Because I know that that was not technically your drug of choice. That was sort of a chaser for the pills.

But do you remember a time when you … I don't know, was it months, was it days, was it years, that that shift happened? Or was it right when you got home?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

No, it was definitely the first couple years were really challenging. The first gala that I had to go to one, without a husband and two, sober was just a few months after I got sober.

And I had turned my wine glass over because I had somebody in recovery that was kind of guiding me through the event, had given me a strategy beforehand.

So, I turned my wine glass over, went to the bathroom, and I came back, my wine glass was full. And I'm like, “Fuck. who did that? Why did they turn it over?”

And it was right next to my water glass, and I was like reaching for my water, and my water felt cold and sweaty. And the wine glass, which my hand like brushed against, felt warm and smooth, and it was red wine.

And I was so fragile. I was a trembling shell of my former self.

I had a speech to make. The head of school was retiring, and as the PA president, it was my job to give the speech that would honor him. And I had written the speech, I had practiced it, but I was shaking. And the wine would've helped.

It would've helped steady my nerves before I got up there. And I got through it. It was super uncomfortable. And I got through the next one. And I would definitely try to make sure I was busy when I had to go. And if I didn't have to go, I didn't go.

Annmarie Kelly:

I'm thinking so much about people asking you for an explanation, feeling like they're being helpful, seeking understanding when really what you needed from them was for them to just respect your answer upfront, whether it's food or drink.

And in our ways to be hospitable and welcoming to people, we can somehow do the exact opposite of what they need. That just, if they said no, they don't want to drink, leave it there. Allow them to be their own boss.

Oh my gosh. I'm thinking about a number of situations where you don't always know who's in that room with you. You don't know their story, you don't know what they need, and to respect their answer.

How do you stay loose at a gala or a thing without a drink? What's a sober technique for staying loose or fluid without wine?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Well, authentically, I'm a social creature. Authentically, I wake up happy, I go to sleep pretty happy. I'm pretty easygoing, so I have boundaries around my time. A time limit really helps for me, like I said, knowing that I'm going to arrive after cocktail hour and that I'm going to leave.

This particular one was bookended by salsa dancing and cocktail hour. So, I was leaving during the salsa dancing, and I would come after the cocktail hour and we could have a good time. It was, you can be curious and I can be warm and compassionate.

And curious is really helpful. Curious is the one thing that I left The Meadows with, (that's where I went to treatment) was listen with curiosity and generosity.

And when I can summon those things, which is a lot of the times, and I do it mindfully or intentionally before an event, I'm going in there listening with curiosity and receiving whatever they say with generosity. People love that shit.

Like you're curious about them. They want to talk all day. There's no pressure on me. It's just like two or three well-placed questions and they're on a roll and I'm the best person in the world. They may not know anything about me, but they know that I'm a good listener.

And so, it works really well. It's very easy, I found. And like I said, there's a time limit on it. So, I leave when time is up.

Annmarie Kelly:

I understand there how you're caring for other people in those situations, then how are you caring for you outside of those situations for what you need?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Yeah. I actually do a lot for myself. Like I said, I meditate every morning. That's a non-negotiable. I also, work out five days a week, which I hate. Oh my God, I hate working out, but I do it.

I am better when I work out. I sleep better, my appetite is better. It's better for healthier things. I am a better friend, a better girlfriend, a better mom. Like I'm just better when I work out. I worked out this morning.

I rest when I'm tired. I don't when I'm not. Like I don't kind of get pulled into my bed because I'm bored. I will do something constructive or I will get outside and do something, walk my dog. Sloth is a sticky place for me because I spent so much time in bed during my addiction.

And boredom, I think takes more people out of sobriety than traumatic events. I think people get bored when things get calm and they want to spice things up and they just want to change the way they feel. So, I'm really mindful of that without over busying myself.

Annmarie Kelly:

Got it.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

And I'm of service a lot. I sponsor 10 women in my 12-step program. We have a meeting at our house every week. I do a step study. I volunteer.

On a monthly basis, I do birthday parties at a family shelter that's near my home. So, whoever's birthday it is, that month gets their name on a cake and we bring like … like what do they call, like the party favors. Like so, I don't bring presents, but I bring party favors so everybody gets one.

And I do other stuff like that, but I stay of service. That's super helpful for me.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah. You have a heart that's outward bound and there are many ways to give those gifts. Oh, that's beautiful. I am just in love with how you're telling your story.

We always wrap with just some kind of quick questions here. I could talk to you so much longer, but I'm grateful for your time and respectful of it. So, I'm going to do these closing questions. These first ones, you just pick one. Okay?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Okay.

Annmarie Kelly:

Coffee or tea?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Decaf coffee.

Annmarie Kelly:

Me too. Mountains or beach?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Beach.

Annmarie Kelly:

Dogs or cats?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Eh, dogs.

Annmarie Kelly:

Not an enthusiastic. Is your dog in trouble with you?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

I'm not an animal person, but I have a dog. So, dogs.

Annmarie Kelly:

Alright. Are you an early bird or a night owl?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Early bird.

Annmarie Kelly:

Alright. Are you a risk taker or the person who always knows where the band-aids are?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Second. I always know where the band-aids are.

Annmarie Kelly:

That's good. Alright. These are a few fill in the blanks. If I wasn't working as a writer slash podcaster, slash change agent, I would be a …

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Oh, I would be a journalist. That's a writer though, isn't it?

Annmarie Kelly:

It's a little bit of a cheat, but so you would tell other people's stories?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Yeah, yeah.

Annmarie Kelly:

I could totally see that. What is something quirky? It could be a pet peeve, or a like, or a love, or hate? What do people don't always know about you?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

I have a huge, enormous, disproportionate fear of birds.

Annmarie Kelly:

Really? I don't think that came up in the book.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

No, it didn't. If you and I were walking down the street and a pigeon came toward us, I might be on your shoulders screaming. I cross the street to avoid pigeons. And if I were ever in sight with the bird, everyone in the neighborhood would be calling 911 because they would think I was dying.

Annmarie Kelly:

Alright. Noted. No birds. What's one of your go-to songs, a song that makes you feel some kind of way?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Oh, gosh. I love Stevie Wonder. So, I'm going to say Joy Inside My Tears.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah, love that song. What's one of your favorite books?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Gosh. Well, one of my all-time favorite books is A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.

Annmarie Kelly:

Oh, yeah. We read that for a book club. Actually, for when I lived in Los Angeles and we all revisited it. We'd all read it as young girls and then we revisited it and it absolutely — not just does it hold up, but there's even more there than you realize. That's one of those books I think you can read anytime.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

I agree. I've read it as an adult several times, but I read it countless times when I was growing up.

Annmarie Kelly:

That's great. Let's see. A favorite movie or television show?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Let’s see. I'm really liking Beef right now.

Annmarie Kelly:

I've heard good things. I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard good things.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

It's good, even for someone who's plant-based.

Annmarie Kelly:

That's right. Last one. If we were to take a picture of you really happy doing something you love, what would we see?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Writing.

Annmarie Kelly:

That's great. Oh, well, in this memoir, you share some of your most vulnerable parts with us. On your podcast, you invite other people to do the same.

Thank you for the gift of your storytelling and the way you have fostered connections. Really, wherever you go, you are a gift, Laura.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:

Thank you. Thank you so much for that and for this. This was fantastic.

[Music Playing]

Annmarie Kelly:

Oh, well, I'm grateful for your time.

Just folks, our guest today has been Laura Cathcart Robbins. You can find her book, Stash: My Life in Hiding.

We are wishing everyone love and light wherever this day takes. You'd be good to yourself, be good to one another. And we'll see you again soon on this wild and precious journey.

Wild Precious Life is a production of Evergreen Podcasts. Special thanks to executive producers Gerardo Orlando and Michael DeAloia; producer, Sarah Willgrube; and audio engineer, Ian Douglas. Be sure to subscribe and follow us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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