Hosted by top 5 banking and fintech influencer, Jim Marous, Banking Transformed highlights the challenges facing the banking industry. Featuring some of the top minds in business, this podcast explores how financial institutions can prepare for the future of banking.
Predicting the Unpredictable: Banking's Next Decade
As we stand on the brink of 2024, it is important to unravel the seismic shifts poised to redefine the industry over the next year and beyond. Digital disruption, shifting consumer behaviors, emerging technologies and evolving regulations are combining to reshape the industry at dizzying speed.
I’m joined on the Banking Transformed podcast by Brett King, a trailblazer whose foresight has continually heralded the next wave of financial innovation. Together, we dissect the advancements and upheavals that will reshape the banking world in 2024 and peer into the future, envisioning what banking might look like as we approach the dawn of 2030.
More than ever, bankers must understand these trends and harness the opportunities ahead of us in order to thrive in the years ahead.
As we stand the brink of 2024, it's important to unravel the seismic shifts poised to redefine the industry over the next year and beyond. Digital disruption, shifting consumer behaviors, emerging technologies, and evolving regulations are combining to completely reshape the industry at dizzying speeds.
As I often say, change has never happened this fast, and it'll never happen this slowly again. In just the next year, we expect to see rapid developments from open banking adoption to new AI applications. Looking out to 2030, the landscape may be almost unrecognizable compared to today.
Brett, you've been such an astute voice predicting the future of finance. What emerging technologies like AI and automation do you see having the biggest impact on reshaping retail banking over the next five years?
Oh, wow. Well, all the technology that's coming into the space right now, AI is going to disrupt not just banking, of course, but a ton of industries and disrupt our way of life in many ways, for the better in most cases. But there's some new paradigms that we're going to have to adjust to.
But AI, you know I've talked about the technological impact on banking, and I have a series of books I've written on that. So, I talk about Bank 1.0 being the traditional era, Bank 2.0 being the self-service era, where we extended branch operations to ATM machines, call centers, and then eventually basic internet banking.
And this produced a sort of whole suite of new startups in the space, FinTechs, that we call them today, that have gained massive market share. We just saw Wise's results this week, which are very impressive.
And then the, the fifth era, which I haven't really talked about broadly in the market yet, Bank 5.0, is AI based banking. And that's a trajectory we're on. So, Bank 5.0 is sort of around the 2050 era, but it's starting now.
And so, to illustrate, JP Morgan Chase today, has, what, 180,000 employees globally. So, what does JP Morgan Chase look like as a Bank 5.0? Maybe 2,000 employees, and the rest is AI. And so, that's the-
It's interesting because in the past, (I've been in banking for 40 years now) consumers pretty much accepted what banks provided them. The banking industry didn't move very fast, but neither did the consumer. They took care of trust, they took care of branding, all those elements.
There's still the expectation for many banks, particularly in places like the United States, where well, if you want a real banker, you have to go and speak to them face to face, and find a parking spot at the branch, and sign a piece of paper.
So, that's the immediate thing is that as a customer, I want to make it as easy as possible for you to execute on what you need to do. And the more friction I put in the way of you, then the harder it is for me to retain you, to keep engaging with you and so forth.
Yeah. And then if you look at the other overarching expectation, it's informational. And that comes from lots of areas in our life. And I should be able to know exactly how much money I have, whether I'm spending it well, all of those sorts of things. Those feedback loops around how I'm using my money.
And so, mobile wallets do a far better job of this than traditional banking apps. So, categorization, showing you predictive cashflow analytics, all of those sorts of things these are some of the features we see in these wallets.
And lending as a result is changing. It's shifting towards wallets in these markets or the super apps and so forth. So, in China, 40% of SME lending now, is on the Alipay platform. And that's a massive shift.
While, as you mentioned in China, you have organizations like WeBank can serve virtually everybody, because what they use is their way of deciding whether or not to serve a customer is their transactions on their mobile device.
And I'll tell you why is when we talk about generative AI, and we're talking about ChatGPT, Midjourney, DALL-E, these sorts of programs, you have these massive data models, which enables you to extract various types of either language or art or whatever the case may be that's generated based on this AI's broad data experience.
So, the equivalent of that in financial services would have to be the most obvious area, is some sort of radical personalization of your banking experience, which would combine advice and would combine the ability to give you access to core utility of banking in a highly or hyper-personalized manner.
And I think part of that problem is that you have to be embedded in the customer's life from a technology perspective in a fairly complete manner. So, the only I guess architecture we have for that today is a mobile wallet on a smartphone.
You do have voice-based smart speakers and things like that, which could obviously be an angle for that same AI. But imagine talking to your smart wallet in your phone and saying, "Hey, how much money have I got? Can I afford to go out with my friends? Or to the football game on the weekend?"
"Can I afford to go out for dinner on the weekend? What's my available budget given my goals of saving up for a new car or saving up for a house deposit next year?" Or whatever the case may be. And your wallet would be smart enough to answer that question.
Or your wallet would be smart enough to give you, say, "Hey, looks like next month you've got a car insurance payment coming up, and you may not be able to hit that because of your current cash flow. This is what you can do about it."
I mean, means being integrated into another platform, but when you look at just what a financial institution can do within their four walls, I'm not getting very much predictive ideas or what I should do in my banking from my current institution that owns enough Information to do that.
I mean, look, banks could do components of this no problem. And banks could own this part of it if they're integrated with the wallet ecosystem, like Apple Pay, Google Pay, and so forth. Because again, it's a largely behavioral.
And so, we do have financial behavior in a transactional level, but we don't have all of the other behavioral data that you'd need to give that. So, we don't have geolocation data. We don't have various psychological or behavioral triggers that sit outside of the banking system.
So, this is why I talk about the ecosystem of banking experiences no longer being driven by banks. Yeah, you have the surviving banks as a component of that, but you now, have the tech giants, the FinTechs, and the AI players who are equally as important in providing those seamless banking experiences of the future.
So, banks have to be integrated into that environment. And banks still think in terms of primary financial institution and you coming to the bank as a customer to ask for a product from the bank. And that is the fundamental shift that occurs with this move to embedded banking through the tech layer.
Talk about embedded banking. How will open banking trends like embedded banking and composable technologies change where and how consumers interact with financial institutions in the short term? And I'll say in the next two to three years, how do you see this all changing?
And they've got this new feature credit plus they call, which basically they can send you a message as you walk in a grocery store and say, "Hey, it looks like you don't have enough money for your groceries today. Do you want to switch into credit mode?"
Brett King (13:42):
And so, you can basically switch over your wallet from your debit card to your credit mode in real time.
That's an example of where if you are still thinking about banking, like provision of credit, like a credit card as a bank, then you're going to lose out in that scenario because that's all data decisioning. So, that's an example of something today.
An example I gave in Bank 4.0, the book that came out in 2018 was mortgage shopping. And so, how does a bank today know if you are going to buy a home or you're interested in buying a home? How it is that you come and ask for a mortgage, and that's the first the bank knows of your intent to buy a home.
So, they have a massive informational advantage when it comes to a home financing offer because as you walk into a listed property, a property for sale, it's a fairly safe assumption given your search history and behavior in the past that you're actually looking for home financing.
So, now, I can give you that offer contextually on your phone with a notification as you walk into the listed real estate property. Or if you walk into a Tesla dealership or something like that, the same applies, saying, "This is how much you can afford."
And at that point, why would you go to your bank and ask for a mortgage and jump through those hoops? But the technology plays a sort of acting as a gateway in terms of that based on their data and informational advantages.
It's interesting because we already have that data around auto purchase, because basically when you do a test drive at any dealership, they do a pinging on your credit bureau to make sure that you'll be able to buy what you're driving.
Yet for the most part, financial institutions don't take advantage of that same data to offer something on a proactive basis. What holds financial institutions back from using the data that is available to be my GPS of financial service? What's your perspective on that?
So, for example, if I'm going to offer an alternative credit product, which is a real-time credit experience, such as the grocery experience I talked about, immediately, if you're in a major bank that issues credit cards, the credit card team is going to say, "No, no, no, no, you can't do that because that's cannibalizing our credit card business."
So, that's the problem you get, is that you sort of have this reinforcement of the existing product structures and org chart, because that's the way budget flows throughout the organization. Breaking that is extraordinarily difficult. It's rarely a technological issue.
Yeah. It's interesting because I've tried to talk about the fact that buying technology will not get you out of a hole if your leadership doesn't envision what the future's going to bring. I mean, it sounds logical, but we play it every day. It's why both of us are in business to a degree, is that banking runs slower than we think it should.
When we're talking about speed overall, how do you see the role of speed within the ability to compete and drive digital experience excellence? I mean, you see both traditional nontraditional finance institutions, you see financial institutions in the US and abroad.
Even real-time payments. We kid about the payments industry in the United States, but we don't see all the financial institutions, even all the big financial institutions embracing and pushing real time payments. This has got to be more than culture, doesn't it? Or is it still just culture that gets in the way?
The US is sort of a unique market, and that's a very protectionist market for the oligopolies that sort of run the different industries. And they get to write the rules, the regulations in respect to industry. So, banking lobbyists are basically writing the rules about FinTech adoption and crypto.
And you can see that in the US because we don't have a FinTech charter. We're the only country in the G20 that doesn't have a FinTech license for a bank. And that restricts very heavily the ability for challenger banks in the US to compete because you can't get a license unless you go the full license route.
For what's happened with the SEC going after crypto, again, that is the fact that the regulations are being written to support the existing Wall Street firms and investment strategies rather than allowing this opening up.
So, that's the biggest problem in the US. But you also have legacy behavior. So, let's look at checks, for example. Although they're in constant decline and have been for 20 years, checks are still used quite broadly in the US for things like payroll.
And there's not an imperative for banks to incentivize people away from that system as yet, because they still have a lot of reliance on people coming in and getting a checking account, opening a checking account and so forth. So, it needs to be a bit of a cultural shift there.
I am increasingly frustrated by the lack of real-time payments and so forth that's here in the US market because you can go anywhere else in the world essentially and use your phone to pay at least in developed economies and developing economies as well.
Well, it's interesting because the consumer in many cases feels like they do have real-time payments, Venmo, and things like this, give the visual of having real-time payments, but it’s not really there.
But it's not a standard where the US has said, "We're going to have real-time payments, we're mandating it, we're going to make it as cheap as possible for banks to make that switch. And we are going to do these things to phase out checks and the ACH met payments methodologies because those legacy systems aren't helping consumers. They're increasing fraud, et cetera."
So, Brett, we've seen a lot of dynamics with regard to regulation. How do you see the regulatory environment changing over the next few years when we're looking at things like data privacy, and we're looking at AI and the risks and bias, and when we're looking at CRA, which is interesting when I talked about what's going on there.
We visited the White House in what, 2013, ’14. I mean, a long time ago. And we talked about CRA and they just came out with a new regulatory decision on CRA, which looks more adequate than it did before.
And that got put into law, meaning that if a bank was the last bank in a town that served a certain population of people, they couldn't remove that branch because there was a social expectation as to financial access in that city or town.
And so, we have a large portion of regulation today concerning digital banking is framed in respect to the CRA in that, well, if we create a digital banking license that doesn't require a branch, those banks that have a digital license are no longer subject to the CRA. So, that's not a level playing field for the banks that are already in the United States.
But if you step back from that and say, "If you were to think about financial inclusion in the United States today, and it's still a problem because over 20% of households in the US are financially excluded. If you were to think about financial inclusion solving that problem today, is the CRA the answer to that?"
And the answer is absolutely not. The answer is mobile. We've had more financial inclusion globally out of mobile than we've ever had from bank branches. We've had the fastest ever growth in financial inclusion as a result of mobile phones.
So, you would have to say, if the purpose of the banking system is to include as many Americans as possible, then you need CRA reform. You also need to accommodate these digital pure play mechanisms to enable innovation in financial inclusion to occur. So, we don't have that either.
And that's, as we know in the current political environment, going to be very difficult, particularly when you've got the bank lobbyists saying, “Don't get rid of CRA, because that's going to be an unlevel playing field.” So, I think there's definitely a regulatory issue here.
But you also asked about identity. So, what we know today, and it might shock your listeners, particularly if they're in the US banking system, is today, if you use your US based credit card online in the US to purchase something, you have a 10,000 times higher chance of fraud than a person in China purchasing online using Alipay.
0.006 basis points of fraud at 500,000 transactions per second for Alipay. Visa and MasterCard combined globally can do about 50,000 transactions per second, maybe a little more. And the cardinal present fraud rate is 11.2 basis points of fraud in the United States. So, those are the hard numbers.
So, this is a twofold problem. Primarily it's identity, is that your 16 digit card number, your CVC, and you know, the expiry date, these data points are no longer securable. And so, we can tokenize, but that is a stopgap measure.
What we really need is digital identity infrastructure. We need biometrics, we need biometric heuristics. And this is where China, with the facial recognition and so forth, has been able to radically reduce fraud on the mobile payments rails.
Let's put aside that immigration and border patrol already have facial recognition for passports, and it's integrated. There are 600 federal databases already that use facial recognition. So, let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're not using this tech.
But at the same time, in a 21st century ecosystem, think about the pandemic. If you want to get access to telehealth, you want to get access to tele-education services for your children, you want to get access to ongoing financial services in the world of the future, it's always going to be based on digital identity.
So, I would say that if you start talking about AI now, if you are going to have an AI agent act on your behalf, the ability to tag digital identity deeply to you and to your Ai, creating a separate digital identity for your AI that is your agent, that's part of the infrastructure we're going to need to keep these ecosystems safe.
So, you've talked a little bit about the competitors, about the FinTechs and big techs, what competitors or models pose the biggest threat to incumbent banks. And alternatively, what types of FinTech partnerships and collaborations do you see happening in the next year and then in the future?
Well, I mean, in terms of collaboration, we do have more and more FinTechs partnering with banks particularly on the infrastructure side. And with AI, I wouldn't necessarily say FinTech collaboration, but AI. Startup collaboration with banks is obviously going to be a big thing.
You are also going to see banks acquiring FinTechs, FinTechs acquiring banks, sort of this cross pollination to some extent. In specific areas where there are specific capabilities that you want to get.
Like if you want to do buy now, pay later, rather than completely reinventing the wheel there, you might integrate with a partner on that front, on the wallet side. You're not going to build a competing wallet to compete with Apple Pay. You really have to be integrated with Apple.
So, there are plenty of tech and FinTech type collaborations that are necessary for you to be present and connected to customers in the digital sphere. And that's even before we start talking about Central Bank digital currencies, or the metaverse, or AI based agency and so forth.
So, welcome back to Banking Transformed. So, I'm joined today by Brett King, good friend. Been in the business longer than I have in many ways. And truly as a person that we look at for a view into the future, but also, with grounding in the present.
So, Brett, can you expand a little bit around the idea of responsible banking and the importance of this in this current client and how much we have from the standpoint of financial institutions walking the walk as opposed to just talking the talk?
In terms of responsible banking, I would start with a very basic premise, which is what is the main thing a bank should do for you, particularly as a customer? But the same is true of a business. What's the number one thing a bank should do for you as a customer?
And I would argue philosophically not from a regulatory perspective is that the bank should help you save and manage your money. And we lost sight of that a long time ago in the banking system globally.
If you look since the 1970s, since the emergence of credit cards, there was an epiphany that credit access was where the money was to be made for especially in retail banking. So, pushing people to spend more money so they could increase their credit utilization is a fairly common aspect of banks.
And so, we increasingly have this posture where spend, spend, spend is the approach that we push from a product and revenue perspective as a bank, when actually it should be exactly the opposite for a consumer, which is, we should just help you save money. We should help you manage your money.
And so, this is what I would say is AI's biggest contribution is that it's creating the smart bank account. It is creating a bank account that will help you manage your money, and your AI will be on your side. Your AI will be saying, "Don't use your credit card, don't use credit, you don't need to. These are the other options available to you."
And that, I think, is at a basic element, helping you manage your cash flow, helping you understand your goals and how micro decisions, like how many times you go and buy a Starbucks coffee every week, how those sorts of things are affecting your overall financial health and sort of managing that.
And so, you will see many banks who have to make this shift eliminating all but the most high net worth customers because of the margin and a lot of the lower to middle income customers shifting to rails like wallet systems and so forth.
So, that's my guess is that there is that sort of banks need to have that cultural shift that your bank account needs to help you save money. And to do so, it means a complete rethink of the product model and the revenue model in the bank. It's pretty significant shift, right?
And it's because there's trust, there's an empathy feel from the Amazon team. There's the feeling like you've gotten to know me, and I trust the fact that you're managing my data. Well, which finance institutions have lost that.
And it's no longer I want to work with a bank that's closest to me, because right now, it doesn't matter where that financial institution is located, but I really do want to work with a financial institution that seems to be looking out for my wellbeing or building products that I really need. And I don't care if they charge for them. If I'm getting a value back that's greater than the cost.
It's obviously a very big open question, but if we sort of limit it to the next five years, the reality is we're already starting to see some of this occurring in — look at Latin America, Nubank is now, the largest bank in Latin America 85, 90 million customers.
Eight years. And then WeBank in Shenzhen. Again, first account was open April, 2015, so yeah, eight years but they obviously started the tech earlier. 380 million, probably 400 million customers by now.
So, market share is already changing around these organizations. So, I think in five years time, you are seeing lots of different organizations giving people choice in terms of what we would traditionally call banking that aren't traditional banks.
And I think this just gets weirder and weirder as the future goes on, because you may have an AI bank launch sometime in the next 10 or 15 years as an example, that how do you license a fully artificial intelligence bank? Like how do you regulate that?
Well, you still have to have a corporation, and you need capital adequacy and all of those regular things. But a lot of those metrics that we had in the past, which was critical to create a healthy bank actually the biggest benefit and the biggest risk is now this algorithm itself.
And this requires regulators to have highly technical understanding and capabilities. It actually requires regulators to be tech organizations themselves, which we're clearly not in that situation as yet.
So, in answer to your question, I see that the traditional banking infrastructure, including the regulation, continues to get attacked mercilessly by these emergent properties and these emergent models.
And the markets that best adapt to this in terms of their regulation, in terms of their openness and their ability to absorb experimental models and things like that, are those that mature as an economy fastest and in the most productive manner.
So, like at a macro basis, we're moving from a situation with highly bureaucratic government systems and lots of these old paper-based systems that have been retrofitted under computers and things like that to autonomous government, autonomous markets, what I would call smart economies of the future, which are highly automated.
And the largest economies of the 2050s are going to be highly autonomous economies. So, the more resistance there is to that autonomy and that high level of automation, which is a way to keep government big, then you have significant problems in terms of decade long development as an economy itself. It makes it much, much harder to compete.
It also makes resource utilization and all of those things much more difficult to manage moving forward. So, you retain a level of complexity in the system that you just don't need moving forward. That's the key issue.
I think there's a few philosophical changes happening in the 2030s. I do think that you're going to start to see a lot more smart contract activity. So, smart contracts, the AI based components by which we run business commerce and marketplaces in the future.
So, maybe autonomous delivery of packages and things like that or ordering that's done and managed by an algorithm or two algorithms talking together. Those sort of things are managed by smart contracts.
And there's no bank in the US that I'm aware of right now, that has smart contract infrastructure. Maybe JP Morgan Chase with some of the work they've done on tokenization and so forth. So, it may not be fair to say no bank has it, but-
And that has implications because US dollars don't really work on smart contracts the way a central bank digital currency does, because if I send your US dollars out with an AI based agent, it's gone forever.
Whereas with a central bank digital currency, if an AI agent makes a mistake, you can roll it back as long as both parties agree, as an example. You've got that traceability and auditability and so forth that you have.
By the time we create enough smart infrastructure around the US dollar to make it work like a CBDC, it is a CBDC. So, a lot of people saying, we don't want the CBDC and in the US because it enables tracking and control over bank accounts and so forth.
Well, at some point the US has to decide, does it want to be the world's leading economy and use automation to keep that status? Or are they going to let that moniker of being the world's largest economy go to someone like China because of their automation?
So, 2030 at one point seems a long way away, but on the other hand, it's very close. Do you see that the way we do banking changing between now, and 2030, where maybe we're not doing it on a phone, we maybe are doing it on another device or another way, or there's some new technology that's being introduced right now that it's hard to embrace?
Like for example, "Oh, hey, bank account, can you check if I paid my car loan payment this month?" Or something like that. Those types of interactions. That's probably the most obvious area over the next few years.
But the other area is all of the fastest growing FIs again, are those that are digitally enabled digital acquisition. So, here's the thing is by 2030, you're going to see quite a market share shift in the US where the biggest banks are those that are really digitally competent and those that haven't made that switch.
There is nothing that we see in the future to reverse that trend. So, again, if you're a bank that's relying on a customer coming into a branch, a lot of that market share is going to shift away to banks that can onboard customers digitally. And we saw that happening during the pandemic.
Jim Marous (45:10):
As we talked about yesterday on your podcast, it already is. It's just that banks haven't recognized it. It's the silent attrition. It's upon us now. It's just really interesting.
Jim Marous (45:22):
Brett, you're a voracious writer. You're writing all the time. You're on the road all the time also, visiting organizations across the world. What are you writing right now? What are you working on?
Brett King (45:33):
Ah, well, we're working on a project together. So, it's called Branch Today, Gone Tomorrow. Hopefully this will be out in the first or second quarter of next year.
Brett King (45:43):
And it is really a definitive look at branch utilization globally, looking at a dozen or more economies and seeing the way branch utilization and branch traffic has changed. And really helping people understand that the era of the branch as the primary channel for banking is over.
Brett King (46:07):
And we know this because in 2013, the density of branches globally started to decline according to World Bank data. And we know that from looking at all of the major markets, that the number of branches globally started to decline around 2017 for the first time in 500 years.
Brett King (46:28):
So, this shift in posture means that banks have to have that mindset shift that (and regulators need this shift as well) if you are still going to maintain branches, their primary role moving forward is to support digital.
Jim Marous (46:47):
Not the other around.
Brett King (46:50):
Yeah. You can't think of them as the primary channel and digital as secondary because all of the fastest growth is coming from digital. And so, the more you rely on branches in that scenario, the less growth you have, the more market share you give up to competitors who are digital.
Brett King (47:05):
So, you have to really say, “Alright, well, how is branches going to work to support digital?” And there are good opportunities for that. The Genius Bar concept, the more technical help.
Brett King (47:18):
I often say in five years time, if you go into a branch, probably the number one reason you have to go into a branch in five years is your tech isn't working. "Can You help me fix my app? I can't use my wallet with the card in the app for some reason." Whatever the case may be.
Brett King (47:39):
So, again, this requires a different level of thinking about the skills and resources in branch. And even the size of the branch. Teller window becomes far less important than just having someone with presence with a iPad or something like that to help you.
Brett King (47:53):
So, that's sort of the example of what's happening in Branch Today, Gone Tomorrow.
Brett King (47:59):
I'm also working on a science fiction series, which I don't want to talk too much about yet, but there's some really interesting moves in that respect.
Brett King (48:09):
And the next book I'll do next year that I've sort of started working out is because you and I both have extraordinary access to the FinTech OGs, is, I wanted to tell the story of the emergence of challenger banking around the world.
Brett King (48:26):
David Velez from Nubank, Tom Blomfield at Monzo, and Anne from Starling, Henry Ma at WeBank, and basically-
Jim Marous (48:36):
Brett King from Moven.
Brett King (48:38):
Of course. And get these guys to tell us their story as founders. And so, the working title of that book is The Rise of the Challengers. And that includes also the mobile wallet structures and stuff like that.
Brett King (48:53):
And that is, I really wanted to document that period of history where banking sort of really fundamentally changed and the trailblazers that helped us through that process. Because we do have that for Silicon Valley in terms of the rise of Silicon Valley.
Brett King (49:13):
And we do have disparate information about individual challenger banks and so forth, but no one's really put together a historical perspective on the rise of all these different challenger models and what it will ultimately mean. So, that's something that I'll be working on next year.
Jim Marous (49:29):
And wherever you are at the time, I know that sometimes we touch base in coffee shops globally, and you are if nothing else everywhere and anywhere, so.
Brett King (49:40):
Well, I mean, I am starting to rethink that a little bit in terms of whether I need to slow down the travel a bit. I'm not recovering as quickly as I used to-
Jim Marous (49:50):
Oh, I know that one real well.
Brett King (49:52):
... from jet lag and stuff. Yeah, I'm sure you do. And so, I am sort of rethinking that to some extent. But having said that, I'm blessed to have really generated a global audience and global demand as a thought leader.
Brett King (50:10):
I do a lot of work with central banks around the world now, sort of helping them. I'm on the boards of some new FinTech’s and startups around the world.
Brett King (50:18):
And I spent a lot of time in the last five years, so including during the pandemic I've done 60 countries or so where I've toured and been able to talk about what's happening in this space.
Brett King (50:29):
But there needs to be antagonists. We need people like you and I out there helping the traditional players see the rate of change and what's happening, so they at least have enough warning to be able to adapt and make the changes they need.
Brett King (50:48):
As we've seen in many other industries, publications with Amazon and Kindle versus the bookstore, and blockbuster versus Netflix and so forth, rarely do incumbent organizations survive this transition. It normally is new entrants.
Brett King (51:06):
And the same is happening in banking. We can see today that the world's number one bank account is a mobile wallet. It's not a debit card issued from a bank branch. That's already happened. But the banks still think like, "Well, we've got all this money, we're still making all this profit, so we must be okay."
Jim Marous (51:23):
We must be doing it right.
Brett King (51:23):
Right. But in many ways, the pendulum has already shifted.
Jim Marous (51:28):
Brett, thank you as always. It's been a while since we've been on this show together. I really glad to have you on the show and keep up to date on what you're doing. Safe travels and have good holidays as they're coming up.
Brett King (51:40):
Thank you, brother.
Jim Marous (51:41):
Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking and the winner of three international awards for podcast excellence. We appreciate the support we received to make this endeavor a success.
Jim Marous (51:53):
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Jim Marous (51:59):
Finally, be sure to catch my recent articles on The Financial Brand and check out the research we're doing for the Digital Banking Report.
Jim Marous (52:06):
This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thank you to our senior producer, Leah Haslage; audio engineer, Chris Fafalios; and video producer, Will Pritts.
Jim Marous (52:17):
If you have not already done so, please remember to subscribe to Banking Transformed on both your favorite podcast app and on the YouTube channel for more thought-provoking discussions on the intersection of finance, technology, and leadership.
Jim Marous (52:32):
Until next time, remember, keep innovating and transforming.