00:07 Frank Hello, and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. And for each episode of Novel Conversations, I talk to two readers about one book. And together, we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's conversation is about the novel, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, by Jules Verne. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Katie Porcile and Gregory James. Katie, Gregory, welcome. Thanks for having us, Frank. Glad to have you both here for this conversation. Before we get started, let me give you a quick introduction to today's novel. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is a classic science fiction novel by French writer Jules Verne. The novel was originally serialized from March 1869 through June of 1870, and finally published in 1871. It tells the story of Captain Nemo and his submarine, the Nautilus, as seen from the perspective of Professor Pierre Aranax after he, his servant Concile, and Canadian whaler Ned Land wash up on the ship. On the Nautilus, the three embark on a journey which has them going 20,000 leagues around the world, under the sea. It is regarded as one of the premier science fiction adventure novels and one of Verne's greatest works, along with Around the World in 80 Days and Journey to the Center of the Earth. Its depiction of Captain Nemo's underwater ship, the Nautilus, is regarded as ahead of its time, since it accurately describes many features of today's submarines, which in the 1860s were comparatively primitive vessels. The book itself is divided into two parts. Part one of the novel, consisting of 23 chapters, begins in the summer of 1866. Part two also takes place in 23 chapters, starting up two years later than part one in January of 1868. So Katie, how does our story start?

02:03 Katie It begins in the summer of 1866 when something enormous and mysterious is sighted at various locations on the ocean. This sea monster is treated as a tall tale at first, but when shipwrecks start to occur, Admiral Farragut of the U.S. Navy is sent on a mission to find the monster.

02:22 Frank No one is sure if it's an animal or an object. It can travel at impossible speeds and shoot columns of water 150 feet in the air. At first, the object slash animal is the subject of gossip, humor, and speculation. But when incidents happen that threaten passenger ships, any wreck or loss is blamed on the monster.

02:41 Gregory Admiral Farragut enlists the help of ocean expert Professor Pierre Aranax of the Museum of Natural History in Paris, along with Aranax's servant, Concile. Farragut also enlists a master harpooner from Canada named Ned Land, who has an unparalleled eyesight and a quick hand. Katie, tell us a little bit about Professor Aranax.

03:01 Katie Dr. Pierre Aranax is the novel's principal narrator and assistant professor in the Museum of Natural History in Paris. He narrows the possible explanations of what the mystery could be to two, a colossal monster or an enormous submarine.

03:16 Gregory Aranax is highly intelligent, curious, and well-educated. He appreciates the opportunity to observe oceans and their life all around the globe. And Katie, what about Conceal?

03:25 Katie Aranax's servant and assistant, Conceal is the archetypal faithful servant who has risked his life to save his master. He remains calm, patient, and remarkably strong even in the face of death and despair, the embodiment of contemplative composure. He has traveled all over the world with Aranax and is well-versed in ocean species and habitats. Of the three captives, Concile is the most patient and optimistic, sometimes seeming indifferent. He has a good sense of humor, too. Concile means counsel in French.

03:59 Frank You know, Katie, he reminds me of the character Passepartout, the manservant of Phileas Fogg from Verne's Around the World in 80 Days.

04:06 Katie I was thinking the same thing.

04:08 Frank And finally, what do we know about Ned Land, Gregory?

04:11 Gregory Land is the opposite of conceal. He reacts with anger, suspicion, and a willingness to use violence if needed, the archetypical embodiment of brute masculinity. He's a classical male adventurer who loves harpooning meat and sailing the seas. Land can be hot-tempered and violent if he is challenged or insulted.

04:28 Frank His surname becomes metaphorical since he will be the one who most longs for land. So, Katie, monster or submarine?

04:36 Katie All major governments reject the idea that the mystery is a submarine, as the technology of a craft such as this seems too impossible. Aaron Axe writes an article in which he states the phenomenon could be a giant narwhal, a hypothesis that prompts the U.S. Navy to commission the Abraham Lincoln to pursue such a creature.

04:56 Gregory Farragut's ship, the Abraham Lincoln, is described as a well-armed frigate with a passionate crew and the presence of the world's finest harpooner, the Canadian Ned Land. Farragut has offered a reward to the first man to sight the monster.

05:09 Katie Land and Aranax develop a friendship because of their shared French heritage, and Land is the only crew member who doubts the existence of the monster because of the damage it did to the iron plates of the ship Scotia.

05:21 Frank True, but to Land's doubt, Aronox argues that a creature who lives in the greatest ocean depths would require a structure of enormous proportions and strength to withstand the pressure. His points seem to sway Land's opinion.

05:33 Gregory The Abraham Lincoln sets off from New York City, and after searching the Atlantic, the frigate rounds Cape Horn and heads for the Pacific. There they find something.

05:42 Katie Slowly, the frigate approaches a phosphoric phenomenon that Aronax judges to be an electric narwhal. The ship and the monster zigzag through the waters all day and all night. In the morning fog, the monster surfaces and blows jets of steam high into the air. Farragut orders full steam as they pursue the monster with land poised and ready, harpoon in hand, but the frigate cannot overtake the monster.

06:08 Gregory The crew tries to shoot it, but the bullets bounce off. They fear they have lost it until they see the monster again and approach it while it appears to sleep. Lan throws his harpoon and hits the monster, but it sounds and appears as though the harpoon hit a hard body.

06:22 Katie Quickly, the monster's light goes out and it sprays two enormous water spouts at the frigate, creating a fearful shock, damaging its rudder and knocking Aranax, Conceal, and Land into the ocean.

06:35 Gregory To conserve energy, they take turns swimming and holding up each other. Despairing and exhausted, they see the moon rise and spot the frigate about five miles away. They call out for help and soon hear a human voice respond.

06:46 Katie Aranax collapses and wakes up on a hard surface with Land looking at him. The men are resting upon the exposed roof of a monster. When Land observes that the beast is covered in metal plates, Aranax begins to understand that the monster is not a creature, but a man-made vessel.

07:04 Gregory In the morning, when the vessel begins to descend, land stomps on the hull and a metal plate slides open. Soon, eight masked men take aeronauts, conceal, and land into the submarine.

07:14 Frank The captives try to communicate in French, English, German, and they even throw in some Latin, but they get no response from the men.

07:21 Katie Aronax, Conceal, and Land descend into darkness and confusion. Land is ready to fight, but Aronax and Conceal argue for diplomacy and patience. The room is soon lit by a bright bulb revealing a table and five stools. The door opens and two men enter, the taller man clearly in charge.

07:41 Frank Aronofs exquisitely describes the taller man as cool and confident, handsome and observant, quote, certainly the most admirable specimen I had ever met. Significantly, the taller man, the character Aronofs believes to be in charge, is not described in negative terms at all. Although this man will soon take his place as the novel's antagonist, Arinox's first impressions are admiring.

08:03 Gregory The two men speak an unknown language. Soon, the captors exit. Later, a steward appears with fresh clothes and sets the table for a meal. The food served is of exceptional quality, and each utensil and dish is engraved with the motto, MOBILUS IN MOBILI, and the letter N. Arinox, Conceal, and Land eat and soon fall asleep. The storytellers have not yet revealed the identity of N.

08:26 Frank When the steward appeared within an elaborately served meal, the captives and us readers learned that the vessel is inhabited by wealthy men with refined taste. The engraving on the dishes likely reveals the initial of the person who commands the vessel. And the motto, mobilis immobili, means moving in a moving medium, which suggests the nature of their mysterious environment, a place that moves through a surrounding fluid.

08:51 Katie Once the three prisoners wake after being captured and fed, Aronax surmises, based on the sensation of not being able to breathe normally, that the vessel must rise to the surface to replenish the air inside as if to breathe, like a whale. He experiences a wave of fresh air immediately upon the vessel's rising.

09:10 Gregory When Land wakes, he is famished, but the steward does not come for a very long time. When Land loses his temper, Concile and Aranax try to pacify him. When the steward finally arrives with a meal, Land attacks him and tries to strangle him. A voice in French orders Land to be calm.

09:25 Katie The second time this man appears, he introduces himself in French as Captain Nemo, the language he has pretended not to understand earlier.

09:33 Gregory He has taken his time deciding how to treat the captives. Nemo considers them enemies who are now prisoners of war, but he offers them a deal. He offers them total freedom on board the Nautilus, except for times that he will determine when they must remain in their cabins. However, they can never leave. Such a deal.

09:52 Katie The alternative, should they not agree to this offer, is that they will be put on a hull while the vessel descends and left to drown. Given the choice between life and death, Aranax, Conceal, and Land reluctantly agree to remain on the vessel as captives. Nemo calls for a steward to take Land and Conceal to their quarters and invites Aranax to follow him for a tour of the Nautilus.

10:15 Frank All right, so Gregory, tell us a little bit about the Nautilus.

10:18 Gregory Sure. The vessel has an abundant library of books, art, and ocean specimens enticing to Aeronauts. The crew prepares elaborate meals from sea products.

10:27 Katie NEMO explains all the instruments and machinery on the Nautilus and how they function. Electricity runs the engines, the measurements, the lights, the clocks, the kitchen, and the drinking water.

10:39 Gregory All of this electricity is powered by minerals from seawater. The Nautilus can reach speeds of 150 miles an hour. They use a small fishing vessel as a fishing or pleasure boat.

10:49 Katie Nemo shows Aronak's drawings that reveal the design of the Nautilus, a cigar-shaped cylinder 232 feet long and 26 feet wide, composed of two holes that give the vessel its strength. He explains how the submarine sinks and rises because of its reservoirs of water pumped by powerful electric engines.

11:09 Gregory The Nautilus can be steered vertically and horizontally, and a powerful reflector lights the ocean for a half a mile. Nemo considers the Nautilus a perfect vessel and loves it as if it were a human. He describes its building, which parts from many countries assembled on a desert island by skilled workmen at a tremendous cost. He also indicates that the site of the construction was burned to eliminate all evidence. Nemo tells Aranax that he is immensely rich.

11:35 Katie Nemo shows him his library of 12,000 volumes, his collection of 30 works by art masters, sheet music of the world's greatest composers, and a remarkable collection of ocean specimens. They smoke cigars made from seaweed and share a sumptuous meal made entirely from sea products. Nemo even shows Aranax his private quarters.

11:57 Frank So Gregory, tell us a little bit more about Captain Nemo.

12:00 Gregory Meeting Captain Nemo is the dominant event in these chapters. In his own words, he is, quote, at once captain, builder, and engineer of an incredible ocean vessel that he considers perfect and loves as if it were part of myself. It is not yet clear whether this Nemo is friend or foe, and perhaps he's a little bit of both. He will continue to be an enigma, a man who, in his own words, has broken all ties with humanity. He has abandoned humanity entirely, including its laws and norms, but does not divulge his reasons for doing so.

12:30 Katie The name Nemo is Latin for nobody, which shows Nemo's mysterious reluctance to reveal his past. Usually, he is confident and authoritative, but Nemo does give in to bouts of solitude. As Aranax encounters the intricacies and miracles of the vessel and its captain, his thirst for knowledge overtakes his thirst for freedom. Despite being captor and captive, Nemo and Aranax are becoming friends.

12:57 Frank Readers, we probably should mention here that these chapters establish the fact that whatever challenges, successes, and failures this mission may hold, the narrator, Aronox, will survive long enough to tell the tale. Aronox is not telling the story as it happens in the present tense. He uses his journal to look back on events that he can recall, interpret, choose, and even exaggerate as he sees fit to serve the tale he tells. This approach doesn't necessarily mean that Aronox is an unreliable narrator. But it does emphasize that he will be able to edit the narrative to serve his own needs. OK, readers, with that start, let's take a break here. And when we come back, we'll continue our conversation about the travels and adventures of the Nautilus and its crew. We'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Novel Conversations. All right, readers, when we left, we introduced our main characters and started the Nautilus on its journey of 20,000 leagues. Chapter 13 begins with a geography lesson about the oceans, the enormous amount of water they contain, and the underwater rivers and currents that Nemo uses to travel. Nemo takes Arinox to the vessel's platform after it has risen to determine their exact location, apparently near the coast of Japan.

14:12 Katie When land asks how many men are on the Nautilus, NEEMO will not answer. When the lights go out inside the submarine, panels slide open to reveal windows that make the transparent sea and its abundant life visible, illuminated by the light outside.

14:28 Gregory Days pass without any sign of NEEMO. From November 6th to the 19th, there's no sign of Captain NEEMO at all. Aronox spends his time studying the ship's specimens,

14:38 Katie Eventually, Aranax finds a note on his desk inviting him to participate in a hunting party the following day on the island of Crespo. They will hunt underwater while wearing underwater breathing and lighting suits. They will use special guns that use little power but kill any animal on contact.

14:56 Gregory Arinox and Conceal agree to wear the heavy and impervious suits, but Land refuses. The others don their helmets, examine the guns, and enter a cabin that fills with water. Once the cabin is full of water, the men safely exit to the ocean floor, able to breathe and see.

15:10 Katie After much walking, the men reach an underwater forest filled with large, motionless trees that grow straight upward. Beneath the trees are sea shrubs with fish that fly from branch to branch. After another long walk, the men grow drowsy and take a nap.

15:27 Gregory When they wake, Aronax is faced with a terrifying giant sea spider, which Nemo kills with his gun.

15:32 Katie In shallow waters, one of Nemo's men shoot an albatross flying above the surface. As they approach the Nautilus, Nemo and his companion knock Aronax and Conceal to the ground to protect them from two large sharks. Soon, the hunting party members reach the Nautilus, enter and undress, hungry and weary.

15:53 Gregory The morning after their forest hunt, Aranax goes to the platform where he sees Nemo and observes crew members hauling in nets. He observes that the crew are of many different nationalities, just as the nets contain many species of sea life. Much of this chapter describes myriad types of fish, testimony to the expertise and interests of the author.

16:12 Katie One day, Conceal tells Aranax to come see something. They observe several shipwrecks. They observe one vessel that had been sunk for only a few hours, with corpses bound by ropes. Among them are a mother and infant, members of the crew, and even the steersmen. As sharks approach, the gruesome sight haunts the onlookers.

16:34 Gregory The next chapter begins on New Year's Day. Conceal wonders if they shall ever see home again, but also admits that, while on the Nautilus, they have seen wonders beyond belief. The Nautilus continues to the Torres Straits, north of Australia, and situated with dangerous coral reefs.

16:50 Katie The weather is rough, and the Nautilus runs aground. The ship is not damaged, but it is stuck. Nemo intends to wait a few days for the full moon's high tides to release the vessel. Land and Conceal convince Aranax to ask Nemo's permission to go out onto dry land while the vessel is grounded. Nemo surprisingly consents. Land is anxious to kill and eat some land meat, and the threesome take a boat to the island of Gilboa.

17:16 Gregory Aranox, Conceal, and Land are more than happy to spend some time on dry land. On the first day, they gather and eat breadfruit, coconuts, bananas, and cabbage palms, but no meat. They return to the Nautilus and unload the food, but they see no one.

17:29 Katie The next morning, they return to the island. They see many species of tropical birds, including a bird of paradise, and they hunt, kill, and cook several. Finally, in the afternoon, Land shoots a hog with an electric bullet and then several small kangaroos. The three men gather on the shore and cook a magnificent meal, musing about whether they should ever return to the Nautilus when a stone falls at their feet.

17:55 Gregory The men come face to face with the Papuans and retreat to the Nautilus. When Aranax tells Nemo about the natives, the captain is unconcerned. The next morning, Aranax goes to the platform and observes hundreds of natives gathered on the shore. He describes their various appearances and costumes.

18:11 Katie The next day, when Nemo opens the hatch, natives storm the vessel and try to get inside. However, Nemo has cleverly set up an electrical cable on the stairs so that anyone who touches it is shocked. The Papuans retreat, the tide pushes the Nautilus out to the sea exactly as Nemo has planned, and the vessel continues its journey.

18:32 Gregory The Nautilus continues at full speed toward the Indian Ocean, and Aranax wonders where Nemo is headed. On January 16th, the vessel floats calmly in the waters while the crew performs minor repairs. However, Aranax realizes that they are in a dazzling phosphorescent bed in which he can observe sea life naturally illuminated.

18:50 Katie Two days later, Aranax observes Nemo and his lieutenant on the platform, looking toward the horizon through a telescope, agitated by what they see. When Aranax fetches his own telescope and looks too, Nemo angrily pulls it away and commands that the three prisoners be confined to their cabins as they earlier agreed.

19:09 Gregory When Aranax questions the reason, Nemo quickly ends the conversation. Aranax, Conceal, and Land go to their cabins and eat breakfast, but soon realize that the food contains a soporific substance that puts them directly into a deep sleep.

19:22 Katie The morning after their confinement, Nemo solemnly comes to Aranax and asks if he is a medical doctor. When Aranax replies that he is, Nemo takes him to a crew member who has been mortally wounded, his skull broken and brain partially exposed. Nemo evades telling Aranax what happened, but Aranax suspects the head wound is connected to the events of the previous day.

19:46 Gregory The man dies and Nemo sheds tears for him. The next day, Aronok's Conceal and Land agree to go on another ocean floor excursion. After walking for hours, they reach a kingdom of marvelous corals, varied and gorgeous.

19:59 Katie Members of the crew dig a grave equipped with a coral cross. They bury their fallen comrade and hold a funeral in his honor. Back on the submarine, Nemo remarks that the cemetery is safe from both sharks and men.

20:14 Gregory Nemo proposes an expedition to the Cylon pearl fisheries. Nemo warns that they will likely encounter sharks, which frightens Aranax, but he agrees to go anyway, and Conceal and Land agree to accompany them.

20:26 Katie Aranax explains pearls to Land, including their value, shape, size, types, and method of harvesting. When Aranax brings up the sharks, Land is interested in harpooning them. Conceal is only interested in accompanying his master.

20:42 Gregory The pearl harvesting expedition begins at 4am. The four men, Nemo, Aronox, Conceal, and Land, go into the rowboat, which approaches the pearl bank as the sun rises. They put on their heavy diving suits and helmets, but Nemo explains that they will not need their lanterns because they will not dive deep. He adds that they will carry daggers instead of guns, and Land brings his harpoon.

21:03 Katie At 7am, they reach the vast oyster bed and follow Nemo to a deep grotto where he shows them an enormous oyster, weighing some 600 pounds. With his dagger, Nemo opens the oyster's shell to reveal a pearl the size of a coconut. When Aranax reaches to touch it, Nemo stops him, revealing his intention to allow the giant pearl to continue to grow.

21:26 Gregory Soon, they spot an Indian diver attached to a canoe, but the diver does not see them. The diver reacts to an approaching shark, which stuns him with its tail fin and might have cut him in half if not for Nemo's advances.

21:38 Frank The shark turns on Nemo instead, which turns into a terrible combat that threatens Nemo's life. Lan saves Nemo by harpooning the shark. He finally got to kill something. Nemo carries the Indian back to his boat, revives him, and hands him a bag of pearls.

21:53 Katie Nemo and Aranax discuss the dangers of the Red Sea, recorded by the ancients. Nemo describes the ancients' view of these seas and their commercial value in connecting parts of the world.

22:04 Gregory When Nemo suggests that they will be in the Mediterranean in two days, Aranax thinks it's impossible, for the Suez Canal is not yet built and the path to the Mediterranean is long. Nemo replies that there is a subterranean passage that he has named the Arabian Tunnel.

22:19 Katie This is the first time I looked up to see if that was real. Before that, I hadn't looked up any information about the book. Was it? It's not.

22:26 Frank Not real. Okay.

22:27 Katie It's impossible.

22:28 Frank Like the Northwest Passage. Yeah.

22:31 Katie The Nautilus is floating in the Red Sea. Land and Aranax see a dugong, an animal like a manatee, that Land wants to—surprise, surprise—harpoon. Nemo grants permission, but he warns that dugongs sometimes turn against their assailants, so Land should not miss. Land throws his harpoon at the dugong, but only wounds it. The enormous animal plunges, and they begin the chase. The animal nearly capsizes the smaller boat Land rides in, but Land delivers a mortal wound to its heart and wins the battle.

23:03 Gregory The Nautilus continues towards Suez and they prepare to pass through the tunnel, steered by Nemo. The current is swift and the tunnel walls are close. The sea roars as they move. Aronax's heart beats fast. In less than 20 minutes, the Nautilus passes through the tunnel and enters the Mediterranean.

23:19 Frank And now that they're back in the Mediterranean, Land wants to escape, but Aranax feels no desire to leave Nemo and the journey. Aranax argues that they might profit by waiting, perhaps six months or so.

23:30 Katie Land says that Aranax is talking about the future, but he is focused on the present. They discuss their differences and agree that Land needs to take advantage of a favorable opportunity if they are above water and close to shore.

23:43 Gregory Aronox predicts that Nemo will never give them the chance, but that if Nemo does, he and Conceal will follow land.

23:49 Frank One night, Aronox and Nemo are in the salon together, and Nemo opens the panels. As they observe the sea life, a living diver appears just outside the Nautilus. Nemo knows him. Nemo opens an iron chest, fills a strong box with ingots of gold worth nearly 2,000 pounds, and writes an address on the lid. Four men carry the chest out of the salon and Nemo bids Aranax goodnight with absolutely no explanation of what has just happened.

24:15 Katie It becomes clear to Aranax that Nemo feels uneasy and cramped in this sea between Europe and Africa and has lost his confident swagger. The vessel surfaces only when necessary and moves at 25 miles an hour, a speed too fast for land to attempt escape.

24:32 Gregory Tensions mount when Land announces his plan to escape while the Nautilus moves only a few miles from the Spanish coast. He has stocked and prepared the canoe. Aranax tries to argue that the seas are rough, but Land says that they must take the risk, reminding Aranax that he has given his word to follow Land's plan. Aranax feels distraught at the thought of leaving the Nautilus and upsetting Nemo.

24:53 Katie Aranax observes the Nautilus' passage past a summit, noting the fish and geography along the way, and then sleeps. When he wakes, the Nautilus is floating, but everything is dark, and Aranax is confused. Nemo explains that they are inside an extinct volcano, floating on a lake in its interior. His crew is extracting coal from the volcano's walls that will be used to make electricity they use, But they will only stay there one day. So, if the captives want to explore, they must do so immediately.

25:27 Gregory As Aronox, Conceal, and Land walk up the inside walls of the volcano, rocks give way to shrubs and land plants. And they even see and smell some violets. Land spots a beehive and harvests some honey. He also throws rocks at land birds and kills one. They return to the Nautilus, which leaves port the following day.

25:45 Katie For 19 days, until March 12th, the Nautilus traverses the Atlantic at a constant speed. During this time, Aranax wonders if Nemo will ever release them. There is certainly no means of escape while they are here. Aranax sees little of Nemo, and they spend much of their time on the surface. They have traveled about 13,000 leagues since they left the Pacific.

26:08 Gregory Nemo orders that the vessel descend to a great depth, where Erinox observes the uninhabited parts of the ocean. Nemo takes a photograph and then orders that they ascend to protect the vessel from such enormous pressure. They rise very quickly, bursting onto the surface like a flying fish.

26:24 Katie Land and Conceal question how many crewmen are on the Nautilus, and Aronax calculates that a huge number could breathe with the air on board. Land is losing patience with his captivity. When he spots several whales, he becomes overwhelmed with the desire to hunt. When Land asks Nemo's permission, the captain refuses, claiming that it would be killing unnecessarily since they do not need whale oil.

26:50 Gregory When a group of cachalots, another kind of whale, appears, Nemo calls them terrible animals because they are predators headed for the unsuspecting whales. The Nautilus approaches the cachalots as they attack and begin to ram them, killing them for more than an hour. When the carnage is finished, the vessel surfaces and the men find a mass of cachalot bodies floating on the water.

27:10 Frank At this point, Land accuses the captain of being a butcher and a hypocrite, but Nemo defends his actions. One whale that has been killed floats in the water, two crewmen draw gallons of milk from it, and Nemo offers Aronox a drink. It tastes good. So let's take a break here, and when we come back, we'll continue our conversation about Nemo, the Nautilus, and this amazing voyage under the seas. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Novel Conversations. When we left, our characters in The Nautilus were headed to the frozen sea around Antarctica. Gregory?

27:44 Gregory The Nautilus continues its southern trek, approaching Antarctica. Aranax is astounded by both the beauty of the ice islands and how Nemo can navigate around and through them. It is extremely cold and daylight is dwindling in mid-March.

27:57 Katie After a few days, they encounter a massive iceberg with no way around it in sight. Also, ice is freezing behind them, so the vessel appears to be caught. Nemo argues that the nautilus can proceed under the iceberg, although they risk running out of air. They estimate that it will take 40 hours to cross the pole and descend.

28:18 Gregory Several times as they begin to rise, they strike the bottom of the iceberg, and Aronox begins to get nervous. He sleeps fitfully, and when he wakes, the ice has grown thinner. At six in the morning on March 19th, Nemo proclaims that the sea has opened.

28:33 Katie Nemo, Erenax, Conceal, and two others set out for an island, proving that the South Pole exists as a landmass, not just a floating iceberg. Erenax lets Nemo be the first out of the boat, the first human to set foot on this ground. Nemo claims the South Pole as his own and unfurls a black flag bearing a gold N. Six months of darkness begin.

28:58 Gregory In the middle of the night, Aranax is awakened by a shock, and everyone soon realizes that the Nautilus has struck ice and lays on its starboard side, motionless. Nemo reveals that an iceberg has turned over and one of the blocks has struck their vessel.

29:12 Frank With the pumps running, they right themselves, but still trapped between the blocks of ice. When they feel another shock, Neno confirms that their course is barred in every direction.

29:21 Katie The situation intensifies. The vessel and all on board are prisoners of ice. The Nautilus has been underwater for 36 hours and only has 48 more hours of air in its reservoirs. The only way out is for the crew to dig out the ice wall in their diving suits.

29:39 Gregory Aronox panics when he learns that they only have one day of air remaining. The crew continues to take turns digging. Their suits offered more oxygen than inside the submarine. Inside the vessel, they experience symptoms of oxygen deprivation. Only two yards remain between the nautilus and the surface, and the crew is dizzy and suffering.

29:57 Katie Nemo decides to try to break through with the force of the submarine itself. It first dives, and then rises with force. In the meantime, Aranax passes out, but Conceal and Land give him the last drops of air from their breathing apparatus. The Nautilus breaks through the ice, and at the last minute, the air rushes in.

30:16 Gregory Arinox, Conceal, and Land are gulping fresh air on the platform while all the others are below. Arinox thanks his friends for saving his life and says that he is forever in their debt.

30:25 Frank By March 31st, they are at Cape Horn. Again, Arinox enjoys observing and cataloging the flora and fauna as they realize they are headed into the Atlantic. Nemo is absent as the Nautilus speeds northward, too far from shore for them to plot an escape. They pass the mouth of the Amazon River and the equator.

30:43 Gregory The Nautilus makes its way to the Caribbean by April 20th. Nemo continues to be absent, which concerns Aranax, who works on his journal, his notes, and his observations.

30:52 Katie As he, Conceal, and Land discuss the legends of the colossal squid of the region, one of these monsters appears at the window. An enormous beast with a parrot's beak and long tentacles. Seven more pulps chase the Nautilus until it stops in the water.

31:08 Gregory Nemo appears and explains that one of the squids has gotten tangled in the engine blades, and that they must fight them man-to-beast, with hatchets and land's harpoon. The vessel has surfaced, so the men fight the beasts from the platform. When a tentacle grabs a crew member, Nemo hacks off the arm with an axe, and the squid ejects a stream of black ink, which blinds the men.

31:29 Katie The crew member is lost in the confusion. When the men recover, the squids are still upon them, and one grabs land. Again, Nemo steps in and saves him. The pulps, finally defeated, disappear into the sea, and Nemo cries at the loss of one of his men.

31:47 Gregory Aronax reads his account of the squid attack to his friends. Nemo remains sullen and absent, and the Nautilus floats without any movement until May 1st, when the vessel resumes its northerly course.

31:58 Katie Land asks Aranax to ask Nemo when they might leave. Land is losing patience after seven long months in captivity. Reluctantly, Aranax goes to Nemo's cabin, where Nemo shows him a manuscript, written by him, that contains the story of his life, to be shut in a waterproof case and tossed into the sea by the last survivor of the Nautilus. Nemo flatly refuses to release the three men and orders that they never discuss the topic again. Aronax informs the others of Nemo's decision.

32:31 Gregory A hurricane approaches and hits on May 13th. Instead of descending, Nemo stays on the surface. He ties himself to the platform while the wind and waves rage. At midnight, when the storm has subsided, he returns to the inside of the submarine and orders that the vessel descend below the agitated waters.

32:48 Katie To land's great disappointment, the storm blew the Nautilus away from New York City and an opportunity to escape. The men spot the electric cable that engineers built to relay telegrams from Europe to North America, an enterprise that has twice failed.

33:04 Gregory While Aranax muses on the history of the cable, now covered with shells, they near the British Isles. Nemo remains aloof, and the Nautilus strangely circles in the water with its captain taking measurements with his sextant. When they spot a large steam vessel, Nemo announces, it is here. The Nautilus descends and rests on the ocean floor beside a shipwreck.

33:25 Katie Nemo emerges from his solitude and recounts the history of the unfortunate ship, the Marseilles, which fought bravely and often. When it faced certain defeat, the captain ordered it to be sunk with all of its men on June 13, 1794, exactly 74 years before this day. The French had changed its name to the Avenger, a detail that Nemo relishes.

33:49 Gregory Arinox comes to realize that Nemo is motivated by a hatred, either monstrous or sublime, which time could never weaken. Arinox sees this feeling manifested in the way Nemo looks and speaks, watching the glowing wreck of the Avenger. The Nautilus surfaces and landspots an approaching warship.

34:08 Frank Arinox surmises that the ship is searching for what everyone now knows is a submarine. Land wants to escape and waves a handkerchief as a signal, but an angry Nemo appears and stops him cold.

34:20 Katie Nemo unfurls his black flag as the Nautilus takes a shot. Nemo orders the three captives below and says that he will sink the approaching ship. The Nautilus speeds away with the ship chasing. Nemo yells, quote, I am the law and I am the judge. I am the oppressed and there is the oppressor. Nemo then reveals that he has lost his entire family and country and hates what this ship represents. Through the night, they watch the ship approach, and then they flee, again and again.

34:52 Gregory The captives plan to jump from the Nautilus in daylight, but the submarine descends before they do. The Nautilus rams the ship underwater, tearing a hole in its side. They watch as the ship sinks and explodes, leaving a dead crew in the waters as even the masts disappear. Nemo, filled with hatred, goes to his room. The scene ends with Nemo in front of the portrait of his wife and children, sobbing.

35:15 Katie Anorax is haunted by the scene he has just witnessed and horrified at Nemo's dreadful retaliation. The Nautilus continues through the English Channel and northward. Neither Nemo nor his crew appears. Land is desolate and silent.

35:31 Gregory The ship is almost always underwater. Two weeks pass. One night, Land proposes that they flee that very night at ten, and Arinox agrees. Anxious yet resolved, Arinox waits in his room for the appointed time, torn between having a final conversation with Nemo or not, thinking back over the entire journey on the Nautilus.

35:51 Katie As the time draws near, Aranax hears Nemo playing his organ and worries that he will encounter Nemo as he flees. As Aranax leaves, he sees Nemo with his arms crossed saying, Almighty God, enough, enough!

36:06 Gregory As Aronox, Conceal, and Land meet on the platform to escape, they hear an awful noise. It is the maelstrom of the Norwegian coast. The captain has steered the vessel there, voluntarily or involuntarily. As the vessel swirls in the storm, Land tells them to hold onto the Nautilus. As Aronox's head strikes metal, he loses consciousness.

36:25 Katie Aranax, Conceal, and Land are in a hut on Norway's Loftin Isles. They do not know what happened to the Nautilus or to Nemo. In 10 months, they traveled 20,000 leagues, and Aranax has his manuscript to attest to the wonders they beheld and the horrors they witnessed. He quotes Ecclesiastes, that which is far off and exceeding deep, who can find it out? And answers that only he and Nemo have the right answer.

36:55 Frank And readers, just that quickly, just that surprisingly, our story ends. We don't know what happened to Nemo. We don't know what happened to the Nautilus. We don't really even know how these three men got onto the land and into this hut, but that's the end of our story. Now, let's take a final break and then head into our last segment, where I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or perhaps a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right, Katie, Gregory, before our break, we ended our story, and now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment, or a character, or perhaps a quote, that we really haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Katie, do you have something for us?

37:45 Katie I do. In our conversation, we've completely left out all of the scientific information that Aranax and Kuntzil and Nemo himself give us throughout the novel. And I found myself falling into these very calm moments of just scientific identification of animals and plants and all the wonderful things they see. And then all of a sudden, something exciting would happen, which is kind of what it would be like if you were on a submarine and your days just kind of floated on and then all of a sudden you were encountering a giant squid.

38:18 Gregory Yeah, for the listener, I kind of mentioned earlier that it reminded me of the moment in Forrest Gump when Bubba is just naming every type of shrimp dish that he knows. That's kind of what it feels like at times where they're just listing every type of crab and genus and species as they catalog. It definitely relaxes you and also it surprises you when something else happens.

38:43 Frank But unlike the Forrest Gump descriptions of all the various ways to cook and make shrimp, both Arinox and Concile go into genus, kingdoms, related species. I mean, they give us scientific details, to me as a reader, perhaps even a little bit too much. But Gregory, do you have something you want to share?

39:03 Gregory Well, I don't want to steal thunder, so I… Oh, steal away. On that note, I read the foreword. I always read the foreword. And it was a very small description about Jules Verne's life and about how he was very well brought up and went to study at school and his father wanted him to come back and be a lawyer. And he decided, no, I want to write. I want to do these things. And the whole book just kind of felt like a letter to his parents being like, I might not be a lawyer, but look at all the stuff I know. I'm going to write 400 pages about all the stuff I know. And so yes, at times it seemed excessive. Like I was being mansplained to the ocean for a very long time.

39:49 Frank You know, and I'll just continue to jump on your statements as well. I did get a bit of a feel that Jules Verne was showing off. I guess I didn't think about him showing off for his dad. But he wanted us to know how much he knows about all of these, as you said, the species, the flora and the fauna of the sea. And again, that's part of what I wanted to bring up. I was joking earlier that if we took out all the descriptions of the flora, all the descriptions of the fauna, all the descriptions of the science, we'd have a novella. instead of this 400-page novel that we worked our way through. But it is fascinating, maybe in smaller doses, but to learn some of what we learned about the geography of the oceans, about, again, the flora and the fauna, I did find that illuminating.

40:40 Gregory Yeah, even with that, I found myself getting told too much, but also not getting enough information. It's one thing to hear about what is out there versus what is it doing out there. I wanted to know more about the things he was seeing, and it seemed like he was so busy listing things that he lacked the descriptive nature of… Well, he's a naturalist.

41:05 Katie Right, yeah, that's true.

41:07 Frank Good points. And I would have enjoyed more information about the crew. We talked about how we don't know how many crew they were, where they came from, what their attraction to Nemo or the sea was. And I would have wanted perhaps a little bit more of that and less about the fish that had 14 fins. But anyway, guys, really great stuff. Certainly been a great conversation, and this is a good way to end our conversation about 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. Katie, Gregory, I do want to thank both of you for coming in and having this conversation with me today. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

41:42 Katie Of course.

41:43 Frank Always a pleasure. I'm Frank Lavallo, and you've been listening to Novel Conversations. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversations. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. Thanks to our readers today, Katie Porcile and Gregory James. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Foutz, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lavallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.