00:09 Frank: Hello, and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. And for each episode of Novel Conversations, I talk to two readers about one book. And together, we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's conversation is about the novel Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Gregory James. Elizabeth, Gregory, welcome. Hey, how you doing today?

00:42 Elizabeth: Hey, Frank. Great to be here.

00:44 Frank: Glad to have you both here for this conversation. Before we get started, let me give you a quick introduction to Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. Treasure Island is an adventure novel written by Robert Louis Stevenson and first published as a complete work in 1883. The story is set in the 18th century and follows the young protagonist, Jim Hawkins, as he embarks on a perilous journey in search of buried treasure. The novel is known for its iconic characters, including Long John Silver and Captain Flint, as well as its vivid portrayal of pirate life on the high seas. The novel is anchored in the golden age of piracy, a period from the late 17th century to the early 18th century when piracy flourished in the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. Treasure Island is considered a classic of children's literature and a seminal work in the pirate adventure genre. Its enduring popularity lies in the timeless themes of treasure, betrayal, and the allure of the unknown. The novel has been adapted into numerous films, plays, and other media, contributing to its status as a cultural touchstone. Elizabeth, Stevenson begins his adventure tale with the unusual device of a young male narrator, which gives the narrative an innocent and straightforward tone, and we get this story after the fact, after the adventure has already taken place.

01:57 Elizabeth: At the urging of Squire Trelawney, Dr. Livesey, and others, a boy named Jim Hawkins records his Treasure Island adventures. He omits the island's exact location, as a portion of its treasure still remains buried there. Jim begins the story by recounting his first meeting with a ragged but imposing old seaman, who shows up at the Admiral Benbow, the inn Jim's father owns.

02:23 Gregory: As the sailor enters the inn, he throws down a few gold coins and moves in, staying at the inn for far longer than his payment covers. He hires Jim to stay on the lookout for a one-legged sailor whom he apparently fears. He terrorizes the others in the inn with his coarse sailor songs and heavy drinking. Dr. Livesey cautions the sailor about the dangers of drinking, but these warnings enrage the seaman, who threatens Livesey with a knife. Livesey subdues the man with his calm authority.

02:51 Elizabeth: On a cold January morning, soon after, a tall, pale man who is missing two fingers enters the inn. The man asks Jim if he has seen his mate Bill, or Billy Bones, as he is generally called, who is recognizable by a scar on one cheek. Jim knows the stranger is referring to the old seaman who is staying at the inn, and he tells the stranger that Bill will be back soon.

03:17 Gregory: Bill returns and he gasps when he recognizes his former shipmate, whom he addresses as Black Dog. The two launch into a violent conversation that Jim cannot hear. The conversation ends as Billy Bones attempts to kill Black Dog with his sword, but his attack is cut short as he suddenly succumbs to a stroke. Livesey cares for Billy in the inn and warns him to stay away from rum, which in his ill health would be lethal for him.

03:43 Elizabeth: Jim attends to the ailing Billy, who begs him for a swig of rum in return for some money. Jim is offended, saying he wants only what Billy owes his father for rent. He finally relents and gives Billy one glass of rum. Energized by the alcohol, Billy says he must quickly get moving to outsmart his pursuers. He explains to Jim that the former crew of the ship he sailed on, under the now dead Captain Flint, want his sea chest.

04:14 Frank: And that night, Jim's father, who has also been ill, dies.

04:17 Gregory: Returning from his father's funeral, Jim encounters a sinister blind man who asks to be taken to Billy. Billy appears sickened to see the blind man, who hands him a black spot, which Jim learns represents an official secret pirate summons. Reading the black spot, Billy cries out that he only has six hours left. He springs into action, but falls down, stricken with a fatal stroke. Fearful, Jim yells for his mother.

04:43 Elizabeth: When he calls out for his mother at the end of chapter three, we are reminded that he is just a scared young boy and a world apart from the sailors. Jim is meek and fearful of the pirate's drunken, swaggering, coarse language and tendency toward violence.

04:59 Frank: But using the device of a boy narrator also allows Stevenson to emphasize the fascinating, enthralling allure of the pirates. Jim is afraid, sure, but clearly entranced by these ragged, powerful, and outlandish men, much more so than by his own father, who is ordinary and unexciting by comparison. Jim hardly mentions his parents, even after his father's death.

05:21 Gregory: In these first chapters, Stevenson also begins to show the vast difference between the upstanding world of doctors, housewives, and small business owners, and the sinister world of pirates. Billy Bones bullies Jim's parents enough to frighten them out of collecting the rent he owes them, suggesting that the world of law and order is powerless against a pirate's brute force.

05:42 Elizabeth: Jim tells his mother about the pirate's plot to take Billy's sea chest, and he flees with her to the neighboring village to seek help. Terrified by the name of Old Flint, none of the villagers is willing to go to the inn to offer them assistance.

05:57 Gregory: Armed with a gun, Jim returns with his mother to the inn. He searches through the dead Billy's clothing to find the key to his treasure chest. Finding the key around Billy's neck, Jim and his mother open the chest and find gold hidden at the bottom, a portion of which Jim's mother claims as her due.

06:14 Elizabeth: They hear running footsteps in the street outside. Jim takes some papers wrapped in an oil cloth that he has found in the sea chest and then flees the inn with his mother. Weakened by fear, his mother faints outside. Typical women in the 1800s. Jim succeeds in dragging her under a bridge out of sight but within earshot of the inn.

06:36 Gregory: Terrified but curious, Jim looks out from his hiding place. He sees seven or eight men running toward the inn, among them the blind man who had visited before. The eight men are surprised to find the inn door open and Billy dead. They search the chest and seem disappointed that it contains only Billy's money. Only gold. Yeah. Clearly, they are more interested in something else that belongs to Flint.

07:01 Frank: The blind man, whom the others address as Pew, orders the men to scatter and find the fugitives. He reminds them that they could be as rich as kings if they find the missing object. Hearing a pistol shot, however, the men panic and flee, leaving the blind Pew alone in the road.

07:17 Elizabeth: Pew is accidentally run down and killed by men on horseback who have come to investigate. Returning home, Jim finds the inn ruined. He realizes that the oilcloth-wrapped papers in his pocket may be what the pirates sought, but he is reluctant to hand them over to the officer, Dance, who tries to take charge of the situation. Jim says he would prefer to show the papers to Dr. Livesey, and he sets off with Dance's party for Livesey's house.

07:46 Frank: Right. Dance isn't even a police officer. He's the chief revenue officer, a taxman leading some other taxmen in pursuit of the pirates.

07:54 Gregory: Jim, Dance, and the others arrive at Dr. Livesey's darkened house to learn that he is dining at the home of Squire Trelawney, a local nobleman. The group heads to Trelawney's residence, where they find the two men in the library. Livesey examines the oilskin packet that Jim has recovered.

08:10 Elizabeth: Trelawney claims that the pirate Flint was more bloodthirsty than Blackbeard and has accumulated a huge fortune. They open the book wrapped in the oil skin and find that it is a log of all the places where Flint acquired loot and of the sums of gold that he obtained in each place.

08:30 Gregory: The packet also includes a map of the island where the whole treasure now lies buried, with longitude and latitude detailed. Trelawney and Livesey are filled with glee and start making plans to sail to the island themselves, bringing Jim along as a cabin boy. Everyone present swears to secrecy.

08:47 Frank: Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, Livesey and Trelawney, the respectable members of the local society, become boisterously excited and, quote, filled with delight. upon seeing Flint's map. Rather than turn the documents over to the authorities and turn their backs on the dark underworld of piracy and thievery, they're thrilled at the idea of becoming pirate adventurers themselves.

09:09 Elizabeth: The upstanding Trelawney immediately launches into a schoolboy's fantasy of finding favorable wins, a quick passage, and not the least difficulty in finding the spot. The image the pirates have left in Trelawney's mind is not one of crime and murder, but one of fun, games, and riches.

09:28 Frank: The readiness of these responsible and professional grown men to become adventurous boys again is part of the theme central to this novel. Stevenson implies that there's a little pirate in everyone, older, young, nobleman, or beggar. In this sense, Jim begins to emerge not as the token boy in the novel, but as representative of all the characters, no matter what their age or position in life. OK, readers, with that start, let's take a break here. And when we come back, we'll get on with our journey to Treasure Island. You're listening to Novel Conversations. We'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Novel Conversations. I'm Frank Lavallo, and today I'm having a conversation about the novel Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Gregory James. All right, readers, when we left, our characters were about to embark for Treasure Island.

10:27 Gregory: After a frustrating delay in preparations for the journey to Treasure Island, Jim is pleased to hear that Dr. Livesey has received a letter from Squire Trelawney describing the ship and crew that he has obtained. The ship has been procured through one of Trelawney's acquaintances in Bristol.

10:42 Elizabeth: The ship is called the Hispaniola. Trelawney relates that he had some trouble finding a crew for the voyage until he had the good fortune to meet up with an old one-legged sailor named Long John Silver. Silver tells Trelawney that he misses the sea and wishes to set sail again as the ship's cook. Trelawney hires him and Silver helps hire the rest of the crew as well.

11:06 Gregory: After a sad farewell with his mother, Jim sets out the next morning for Bristol, accompanied by Tom Redruth, another man who will be on the ship's crew. At the inn in Bristol, they meet up with Trelawney. Newly clothed in a sea officer's outfit, Trelawney informs them that they will sail the next day.

11:23 Elizabeth: Trelawney gives Jim a note to pass on to Long John Silver at the Spyglass, a tavern in the town. Jim sets off happily to find the sailor. Silver is more clean cut than Jim expects, but Jim recognizes him and introduces himself. Just then, another customer in the bar suddenly gets up to leave, attracting Jim's attention. Jim recognizes the man as Black Dog and informs Silver.

11:49 Gregory: Jim is pleased to learn that Silver shares his negative view of Black Dog. Silver wins over Jim's trust, and they stroll by the docks as Silver tells Jim about ships and sea life. Silver is introduced to Dr. Livesey and treats him with respect. Livesey is quite pleased to have Silver as the ship's new cook.

12:06 Frank: Readers, we should probably mention that Long John Silver is aware that these men are on the treasure hunt. Trelawney has been talking out of school, and pretty much everyone in this town now knows that there's some sort of treasure map that they're following. And I think we should also mention that Jim has vague feelings that Long John Silver is the man that Billy Bones feared early on in the reading, but he never quite makes that connection for us.

12:36 Gregory: It's certainly that this moment when he's walking by the docks and teaching him all about sea life that he really just dissipates any concern from Jim whatsoever.

12:44 Frank: Right, Silver totally wins him over.

12:46 Elizabeth: While boarding the ship, Jim, Silver, and the others meet Mr. Arrow, the first mate, with whom Trelawney gets along well. There is some animosity, however, between Trelawney and the captain, whose name is Smollett. Captain Smollett is very opinionated and speaks openly about his dislike of most of the crew and about the fact that he has a bad feeling about the voyage. And he's also upset that the whole crew knows about this treasure mission, which apparently he didn't even know about. So he's hearing it from the crew.

13:18 Frank: Who heard it from Trelawney.

13:20 Elizabeth: Yes.

13:21 Frank: And or Long John Silver.

13:22 Gregory: Right. Right. The voyage begins on an ominous note, as the first mate, Mr. Arrow, turns out to be a hopeless drunk who is useless on board. He disappears mysteriously one night, leading the others to presume that he fell overboard in his drunkenness. The boatswain, Job Anderson, replaces Arrow. Jim continues to be entranced by Silver, impressed by his swift, one-legged maneuverings around the deck.

13:47 Elizabeth: Jim is also fascinated by Silver's parrot, whom Silver claims to be 200 years old. The parrot's name is Cap'n Flint, after the famed buccaneer. Relations between Trelawney and Smollett are still somewhat strained, but the voyage proceeds normally. One evening, Jim gets hungry for an apple and climbs into an apple barrel on board, where, unsuspected, he overhears an important conversation.

14:16 Gregory: Hiding in the apple barrel, Jim overhears Long John Silver telling several other crew members about some of his adventures with Old Flint. Jim learns that most of Old Flint's former crew members are on board the ship now, posing as ordinary crew but plotting to take the treasure for themselves. Jim watches the pirates partake of a secret stash of rum. As the men drink, the cry of Land Ho is heard from the deck.

14:42 Elizabeth: With the island visible before them, Smollett and his crew discuss the best place to drop anchor. Smollett consults a map of the island and Jim notices that it is an exact copy of the treasure map he saw before, but without the X marking the treasure's hiding place. Silver knows the island well and offers advice. Smollett congratulates the crew on a job well done and then meets with Trelawney below deck.

15:11 Gregory: Later, Jim goes below deck and warns Smollett and Trelawney about Silver's criminal intentions, telling them what he overheard while hiding in the apple barrel. Trelawney immediately admits that he has been a fool in hiring a crew and trusting Silver. Smollett urges everyone to stay vigilant.

15:27 Frank: Jim's role on the ship turns out to be very different than originally planned, as he quickly breaks out of the limited role of a mere cabin boy. Livesey calls Jim the most useful person on the ship, as he is perceptive and not suspected by the conspirators. It's an example of how Jim begins to grow during this adventure. He's moving away from the boy who yelled for help from his mom.

15:49 Elizabeth: Having approached the island in sweltering weather, the crew is irritable and discontent. Dr. Livesey warns the men that they may be at risk of contracting tropical diseases on the island. Silver, with his knowledge of the island's geography, advises Captain Smollett on a good place to drop anchor. After consulting with Squire Trelawney, he decides to allow the crew to go ashore for diversion, which would allow the honest men to reclaim control of the ship.

16:18 Gregory: Smollett takes Tom Redruth and several other honest sailors into his confidence and gives them weapons. Silver leads the pirates ashore, believing that they will be able to recover the treasure immediately. Jim, deciding that his assistance is not needed on board, hides in one of the pirates' boats. However, from another boat, Silver catches sight of Jim, who begins to regret his decision. Reaching the shore before most of the others, Jim quickly scrambles away.

16:45 Elizabeth: As Jim surveys the island, he is startled to hear voices nearby. He creeps closer and finds Silver addressing one of the sailors named Tom, trying to persuade him to join the mutineers. Silver makes it clear that Tom's life is riding on his decision, but Tom declines politely but firmly. They suddenly hear a piercing scream from far away, and Tom is greatly alarmed. Silver says coldly that the scream must be from Alan, another honest sailor who has refused to join the pirates.

17:20 Gregory: Tom tells Silver that Silver is his friend no more and starts to walk away. Silver flings his crutch at Tom's back, knocking him down, and then walks over and kills him with his knife. Jim is terrified, realizing that he has no way to get back to the ship without being spotted and killed by Silver and his gang. Jim starts to run deeper into the island.

17:41 Elizabeth: Fleeing the pirates, Jim sees a human figure in the woods, and he fears that it is cannibal. Suddenly remembering that he is armed, Jim gains courage and walks briskly toward the man who is hiding behind a tree. Jim asks the man his name, and he replies that his name is Ben Gunn, and that he has been on the island for three years. Jim asks Ben if he was shipwrecked, and Ben answers that he was marooned. Ben speaks in a deranged manner, making many religious allusions. Jim suspects that Ben may have gone mad.

18:18 Gregory: When Ben asks that the ship moored on the shore is Flint's, Jim realizes the wild man may have useful information. Jim learns that Ben once served on Flint's crew, and thus knows all the current mutineers. Ben was left behind on the island after a failed treasure hunt three years ago.

18:35 Frank: And from Ben, Jim learns that Flint buried his treasure and killed the six men who helped him bury it. Ben also mentions that he has made a boat, which he hides under a white rock. He assures Jim that he can locate the treasure and return for safe passage home, and guides Jim to his dwelling.

18:50 Elizabeth: Jim's concept of death begins to change in these chapters. The deaths Jim experiences earlier in the novel occur in natural or accidental fashion. Jim's father and Billy die of natural causes, and the blind beggar Pew dies in a road accident. Now, the possibility of unnatural death or murder arises. Silver's cruel execution of Tom is the most obvious example, and it forces Jim to become aware for the first time of the possibility that one man might wish another dead.

19:26 Frank: Now, since Jim is not in this part of the story, Dr. Livesey takes over the narration, beginning his story at the mutineers' departure for the island. Realizing that Jim is with the mutineers, Livesey and Captain Smollett fear for Jim's safety, and they agree that Livesey should go ashore along with Hunter, Squire Cholani's servant. Once ashore, Livesey comes upon a stockade that Flint's men built years earlier.

19:49 Gregory: Returning to the ship, Livesey tells the others what he has found. The men load two boats with provisions, taking the risk that they may arouse the suspicions of the mutineers on shore. Captain Smollett gives Abraham Gray, a sailor who has fallen in with the mutineers, a last chance to join him and his crew. Gray scuffles onto the boat and they head for shore.

20:09 Elizabeth: The little boat carrying Captain Smollett, Squire Trelawney, Dr. Livesey, Tom Redruth, and Abraham Gray is dangerously overloaded and thus hard to maneuver. The men begin to suspect that the mutineers might be planning an attack, aware that the pirates possess arms and gunpowder and that Israel Hands was once Flint's gunman. Hans fires a cannonball at the men's boat, causing it to founder. No lives are lost as the water is shallow, but the men are forced to leave half of their provisions behind when they wade ashore.

20:44 Gregory: Captain Smollett and his group make their way to the stockade and pause to reload their guns. Trapped in the stockade, the group is bombarded by cannon fire throughout the evening. Smollett makes an entry in his logbook for those in the stockade, while Livesey wonders what has happened to Jim. Just at this moment, Jim suddenly enters.

21:03 Elizabeth: Jim resumes the narration of the tale. Having seen a Union Jack flying above, he approaches the Stockade along with Ben Gunn. Jim is unsure whether it is Captain Smollett's crew or the mutineers who control the Stockade. But Ben, assuring him that the pirates would never fly the Union Jack, encourages him to enter. Jim enters the Stockade to join Smollett's group and tell his story.

21:30 Gregory: Later, Jim returns to the shore to see the pirate's black flag, the Jolly Roger, flying above the ship. The pirate's voices suggest that they have been drinking a lot of rum. A lot of rum. Smollett asks about Ben's sanity, but displays kindness to the deranged man. Jim sleeps, but wakes to hear someone say that Long John Silver is approaching with a flag of truce.

21:52 Elizabeth: Captain Smollett is wary of Silver's gesture of truce, fearing a trick. The pirate announces himself as Captain Silver and asserts that he wants to reach a compromise with Smollett. Smollett questions Silver's claim to the title of Captain and refuses to talk with him. Silver hoists himself over the stockade fence anyway and approaches. He demands the treasure map in exchange for a ceasefire. Smollett angrily reminds Silver that they are far more powerful than the mutineers. Silver tries again, promising the Captain and his men safe voyage in exchange for the map. When Smollett again refuses, Silver leaves indignantly.

22:33 Gregory: After roughly turning Silver away, Captain Smollett predicts that the pirates will attack the stockade in retribution, and he orders the men to prepare. They wait in anxious expectation, then hear shots and see the pirates scrambling over the stockade fence. Grey and Squire Trelawney fire on the pirates, wounding several of them. A fight ensues, and in the end, Smollett, Dr. Livesey, Jim, and most of the others return safely to the stockade, having lost fewer than the mutineers.

23:02 Elizabeth: Seeing no further signs of attack by the mutineers, Captain Smollett and his men relax in the stockade. Grey is startled to see Dr. Livesey go walking out into the trees, taking the map with him. Grey asks whether Livesey has gone mad, but Jim answers that Livesey is going to speak to Ben Gunn. Left inside to clean up the bloody mess of the earlier attack, Jim grows impatient, yearning to do something more heroic.

23:31 Gregory: On another whim, Jim decides to go search for the boat that Ben had mentioned he had built. After a bit of search, Jim finds the small handmade boat, which is a coracle, a type of boat once sailed by the ancient Britons. Jim decides he will sail out to the Hispaniola and cut it adrift. When darkness falls, he hoists the coracle on his shoulders and heads for the water.

23:53 Elizabeth: Jim finds the coracle hard to sail, but he eventually manages to reach the anchored ship. Grasping the anchor rope, Jim takes out his knife and starts cutting, waiting for the wind to lessen the rope's tension so he can finish cutting it. He sits and listens to the rude oaths and drunken nonsense coming from the pirate's ship.

24:14 Gregory: When there is a breeze, Jim is able to cut the last fibers of the rope and set the Hispaniola adrift. On a whim, he clutches the trailing rope and hauls himself to window level, peering in to see why no one has noticed the sudden motion of the ship. He discovers that the pirates are distracted as Hans and another sailor are wrestling. Back into the coracle, Jim realizes that he has drifted to the southwest end of Treasure Island.

24:38 Elizabeth: Paddling towards shore is useless, as he would be dashed to death on the rocks that form this edge of the island. Jim decides to try to make his way toward a friendlier shoreline to the north. After much effort, he finally reaches the cove he has aimed for, his throat burning from thirst. He spots the Hispaniola drifting aimlessly and concludes that the crew either is entirely drunk or has deserted the ship.

25:02 Gregory: Now Jim hatches a plan to try to board the wildly drifting Hispaniola, realizing that he can overtake the ship if he sits up and paddles hard. Though he runs the risk of being spotted, he thinks the idea has an air of adventure about it. So he starts paddling. Finally reaching the ship, Jim climbs on board and searches for water to quench his thirst. He hears the sound of the ship being blown into and destroying the coracle, and knows that escape from the ship is now impossible.

25:31 Elizabeth: Jim is surprised to see that no one is on deck. A bit later, however, he finds two watchmen. One is Israel Hands, who lies splashed with blood in a drunken stupor. The other one is dead. Jim addresses Hands, who begs for a little brandy. Descending into the cellar, Jim finds that most of the ship's store of alcohol has been consumed. He returns with a drink for Hans and asks that Hans consider him the captain, since Jim has taken possession of the ship. In a symbolic gesture, Jim throws the pirate's flag, the Jolly Roger, overboard.

26:06 Frank: All right, readers, let's take a break here. And when we come back, we'll find out just how much more trouble Jim can get himself into. You're listening to Novel Conversations. I'm Frank Lavallo. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Novel Conversations. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo, and today I'm having a conversation about Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Gregory James. All right, readers, when we left, Jim had named himself Captain of the Hispaniola.

26:44 Gregory: Hans then asserts his own navigational expertise and strikes a deal with Jim. If Jim gives Hans food, drink, and medical help, Hans will assist Jim in sailing the ship. They steer the ship towards the north inlet of the island, enjoying a favorable wind. Jim is delighted with his new position of command, though wary of Hans' careful watch over him.

27:07 Elizabeth: Jim and Hans approach the north inlet, but must wait for a favorable tide to cast anchor. Suspiciously, Hans claims that the brandy is too strong for his head, and asks Jim for wine instead.

27:21 Frank: Brandy too strong for a pirate?

27:24 Elizabeth: Yeah, and when Jim asks him what type of wine, he says he doesn't care. So Jim feigns innocence and goes to fetch some port wine, but watches hands in secret and observes him extract a long knife from a hiding place and place it under his jacket.

27:42 Gregory: Jim knows that he needs Hans to guide the ship safely into the inlet and remains wary of him. But as he becomes absorbed by the effort of maneuvering the ship into its anchorage, he relaxes his vigilance and Hans attacks him. They engage in a fierce scuffle. Jim climbs a mast and Hans follows. Jim pulls his pistol on Hans, who flings his knife, piercing Jim's shoulder and pinning him to the mast. Jim's gun goes off and Hans falls into the water.

28:09 Elizabeth: The knife still pinning him against the mast, Jim watches as Hans' body rises once in the water and then sinks down. Not seriously wounded, Jim initially feels faint and terrified, but manages to regain his composure. Shuddering, he frees himself by ripping the bit of shoulder skin that the knife has pinned to the mast. He climbs down the mast to care for his wound.

28:34 Gregory: Now alone, Jim decides that he is close enough to the island to swim to shore. He reaches the island and treks through the woods in search of Captain Smollett's stockade on the other side of the island. He finally glimpses the glow of a fire in the distance and finds that it is coming from the campfires of the stockade. Jim is surprised that Smollett would allow such a waste of firewood.

28:56 Elizabeth: Creeping into the stockade, Jim finds the men asleep. A voice suddenly cries out, pieces of eight! And Jim recognizes the voice of Silver's parrot, Cap'n Flint. Realizing that the pirates have taken over the stockade, Jim tries to flee but is held tight.

29:13 Gregory: Long John Silver addresses Jim fondly, telling the boy that he reminds Silver of what he was like when he was young. Silver tells Jim that Dr. Livesey is angry about Jim's desertion and is glad to be rid of him. Jim only partially believes this statement, but he is relieved to hear that his friends are alive. Jim also realizes that Silver is having trouble managing his men, who are surly and disrespectful.

29:38 Elizabeth: Jim boldly reveals that he cut the rope on the ship and killed Hans, and he tells Silver that he does not fear him. Silver seems merely amused by Jim, but his men threaten to become violent. Silver strives to assert his power over the mutineers, but they assemble in a far corner, leaving Silver and Jim in the other corner. Silver whispers to Jim that the men are close to another mutiny, and that he and Jim need to rely on each other to save their skins.

30:09 Gregory: He tells Jim to play the role of the hostage, to convince Silver's men that Silver is still in charge. Finally, Silver reveals that Livesey has given him the treasure map, which astonishes Jim. He and Silver await the end of the Pirates' Council. One of the pirates hands Silver a black spot—the official pirate judgment. Silver casually reads the judgment, which announces that he has been deposed from his position as a punishment for bungling the mission. Furiously, Silver retorts that if his wishes had been followed, the men would already be in possession of the treasure.

30:42 Elizabeth: He claims the failure is the fault of the men, because they forced his hand as captain. Silver also tells the men that they are all very close to being hanged. He insists on the usefulness of having Jim as hostage, and reminds the men that it was he, Silver, who arranged for Dr. Livesey to tend to them every day. As a final gesture, Silver flings down the treasure map Livesey has given him, and the men gather around his side again. Silver tosses Jim the black spot as a souvenir.

31:14 Frank: Jim wakes up the next morning as Dr. Livesey arrives to attend to the pirates. Livesey is visibly shocked to see Jim, but does not speak to him and proceeds to treat his patients. Finally, he asks to see Jim alone. One of the pirates voices a refusal, but Silver insists that the request be granted. Jim and Livesey advance to the other side of the stockade, still in view of Silver. Livesey expressed a surprise that Silver's not worried about losing his hostage, and Silver replies that he trusts Livesey as a gentleman.

31:44 Gregory: Livesey accuses Jim of being cowardly in deserting the captain at the moment of weakness. Jim begins to weep. Livesey suddenly suggests that they both make a run for it and flee the pirates. Jim responds that such an action would not be right. He tells Livesey that he knows the location of the Hispaniola. Livesey exclaims that Jim manages to save their lives at every step. He returns Jim as a hostage to Silver and warns Silver not to be in a hurry to find the treasure.

32:13 Frank: Silver thanks Jim for saving his life and for not running away when Dr. Livesey encouraged him to do so. Silver's men are happy, confident of seizing the treasure soon. But Jim is sad in his certainty that Silver will betray him at the soonest practical moment.

32:27 Elizabeth: After breakfast, the pirates set off on the treasure hunt, with Silver leading Jim on a leash. Reaching the top of a hill, the pirates are shocked to find a skeleton in Seaman's garb stretched out on the ground like a compass, pointing to the treasure. The pirates recognize the skeleton as a former mate, Allardyce, who served on Flint's crew because of its long bones and yellow hair. Following Allardyce's clue, they head on towards the treasure.

32:55 Gregory: Silver expresses his confidence that they are close to the treasure. One of the pirates feels uneasy thinking about Flint, and Silver says they are lucky the old captain is dead. The pirates suddenly hear a trembling, high voice singing the same song the pirates frequently sing, 15 men on the dead men's chest. One of the pirates claims the voice is Flint's, and the men grow terrified, thinking they have awakened a ghost.

33:21 Elizabeth: The pirates hear the voice again and it wails what all the men recognize as Flint's last words. Silver, the only one who remains undaunted, scorns the other men's belief in spirits and keeps focused on the search for the treasure. The pirates continue onward. As they approach the treasure site, Silver's nostrils quiver and he seems half mad. Suddenly, coming upon the site, the pirates are shocked to find it has already been excavated and only an empty hole lies before them.

33:53 Gregory: Silver and his men are astonished that the treasure is gone. Jim coldly accuses Silver of changing sides again. The men dig in the pit and find a few coins. One of them accuses Silver of having known all along that the treasure was gone. The angered pirates suddenly seem united against Silver and begin to move upon him. Suddenly, guns fire from somewhere in the surrounding thicket, cutting down several of the pirates. Silver draws his pistol, killing the pirate who had accused him. Dr. Livesey, Ben Gunn, and Abraham Gray emerge from the trees, their muskets smoking.

34:28 Elizabeth: Silver thanks Livesey for saving him from the uprising, and greets Ben Gunn affectionately. We learn that Ben, in his wanderings about the island, had come across the skeleton, dug up the treasure, and moved it to a cave. Livesey found out about Ben's actions and gave the map to Silver only after he knew it was useless. Learning that Jim would be among the disappointed treasure seekers, Livesey sent Ben off to imitate Captain Flint's voice, playing on the pirates' superstitions and slowing their progress.

35:00 Gregory: Finally, the group goes to the cave and finds the vast treasure of gold just where Ben left it. The next morning, the men begin the difficult task of transporting all the gold down to the Hispaniola. Jim is fascinated by the coins, far more by the variety of their designs and nations of origin than by the wealth they represent. On the evening of the third day of loading the ship, the men discover three of the mutineers, who are either drunk or crazy. The men decide to leave the three mutineers marooned on the island with a small amount of provisions.

35:32 Elizabeth: As Captain Smollett and his men finally make preparations to embark, the three mutineers kneel before them in submission, begging to be taken on board, understanding that they are being left behind. They fire at the departing ship, but no one is hurt. Smollett sets course for a port in Spanish America before turning home. The Hispaniola eventually returns to Bristol.

35:55 Gregory: Finishing his tale, Jim reports that Captain Smollett is retired from sea life, that Ben has spent his reward and is now a lodgekeeper, and that Silver crept overboard one night during the voyage with a few bags of the treasure, never to be heard from again. Jim wishes Silver well. He notes that the remainder of the treasure still lies buried on the island, but claims that nothing would ever entice him to take part in another treasure hunt. He says that he still has nightmares of Silver's parrot crying, pieces of eight, pieces of eight,

36:25 Frank: And readers and listeners, that's how our novel Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson ends. Elizabeth Gregory, now let's take a final break and then head into our last segment where I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. You're listening to Novel Conversations. We'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Novel Conversations. I'm Frank Lavallo, and today I've had a conversation about Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. All right, Elizabeth, Gregory, before our break, we ended our story, and now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or perhaps a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Elizabeth, do you have something for us?

37:14 Elizabeth: I do. What I wanted to mention was that they found 700,000 pounds worth of gold, and they gave Ben Gunn 1,000 of that, which doesn't really seem fair because he was the one that found the treasure in the first place and led them there.

37:34 Frank: And secured it.

37:35 Elizabeth: Right. Exactly. Kept it safe. And it says that he he spent or lost the thousand pounds within 19 days and then he's back to begging. So I don't know. It just doesn't quite seem fair, especially because he had gone mad like they could have maybe helped him out a little bit more.

37:54 Frank: He does get a lodge to keep, and I don't remember it being clear as to who gave him that lodge or if they bought a lodge for him.

38:03 Gregory: So I'll just read the two sentences. It's very short. As for Ben Gunn, he got a thousand pounds, which he spent or lost in three weeks, or to be more exact, 19 days, for he was back to begging on the 20th. Then he was given a lodge to keep, exactly as he had feared upon the island, and he still lives, a great favorite, though something of a butt, with the country boys and a notable singer in church on Sundays and Saints days. So it just seems like the best thing they could have done for him was just like, get him back to some semblance of civilization, but also like, he probably wouldn't know what to do with A hundred thousand pounds. Right.

38:37 Frank: I was going to say, if they gave him 30,000 pounds or 300,000 pounds, he probably still would have blown it in maybe not 19 days, but in a fairly quick fashion.

38:48 Gregory: Maybe the thousand was a test and they were like, all right, he can't handle money.

38:51 Elizabeth: That's true. This is a bad idea. Maybe they could have at least given him an allowance or had someone manage the money for him or something. A conservatorship.

39:03 Frank: Judge Thatcher managed the money for Huck and Tom Sawyer after the Tom Sawyer story. Gregory, did you have something you wanted to share?

39:10 Gregory: Yeah. I was going to say that I love Ben Gunn. I think he's my favorite character. He's just so much fun. But no, I want to talk about the top. as the – I think it's the publisher in this version kind of notes in the afterword that it wasn't really well received at first among young boys who it was kind of geared towards because that's who's writing the story in essence. Because it doesn't start immediately in the action and that they don't take C until chapter 10 or something like that. But I do love how it starts. I do love like the dark and stormy night and this mysterious figure coming to town and he's holding a treasure chest and he's just this surly man in the corner for months. I mean, they pass multiple seasons where he's living in this inn. Without paying his rent. without paying his rent. And it just kind of builds this intrigue of Jim to be like, I fear strangers, but then he kind of warmed up to him at a point and this kind of yearning to discover other mysterious figures in the world. And I think that that curiosity, you begin to share that other than instead of just jumping right into an adventure, you share that curiosity. And again, we kind of talked about how Jim is a whimsical or no, What was the word?

40:31 Frank: I'm going to be using the word impulsive and impetuous.

40:34 Gregory: Yes. Yeah. We, we begin to share that because now we're, we're built into the intrigue instead of just thrown right into action where we would maybe not, not care so much. So I really enjoyed that.

40:44 Frank: And I think part of it and what I wanted to bring up, I think, I think part of it is that we see Jim grow throughout this whole novel. I mentioned, you know, in the very beginning when, uh, Billy Bones dies and then Jim is, Jim hears the pirates coming. he sort of is a scared little boy and he yells out for help from his mom. But as the novel progresses, he gets bolder, he gets stronger. He is a modest narrator. He really never boasts of the remarkable courage and heroism that he displays. But as you said, he's impulsive and he's impetuous. But he does exhibit increasing sensitivity and wisdom. And so I enjoyed the arc of Jim, even though it was only a few months of adventure, He really grows up from cabin boy to captain and really earned all of that acclaim that he receives from Dr. Livesey.

41:35 Gregory: And absolutely, I mean, he keeps his moral compass the whole time, but he definitely adopts a lot of tactics of a pirate. He commandeers a ship essentially by himself as hands is pretty badly wounded, can barely stand at times. And I think it's Silver or Smollett who even mentioned at one point that a single man could not captain the Hispaniola and Jim proves that that's not necessarily true. One and a half men can captain it.

42:01 Elizabeth: Well, and he gets Israel hands to help him steer the ship back too.

42:08 Frank: Another thing I wanted to mention was Jim's torn feelings between Captain Smollett who he respects, but doesn't really like because he's such an authoritarian. And Long John Silver, who he doesn't respect, but he kind of likes and enjoys the life that Silver has lived and talks about. So Jim goes back and forth between wanting the respect of Smollett, but wanting to be friendly with Long John Silver. Absolutely. Elizabeth, did you have something else you wanted to share?

42:40 Elizabeth: Yeah, I wanted to mention that this book is where we get quite a few pirate tropes that we see all the time today in movies and other books. Parrot on the shoulder, for example, the one-legged pirate. Apparently treasure maps were not actually a thing. I looked that up. Oh, wow. That treasure maps weren't a pirate thing. That was something that Stevenson came up with.

43:06 Frank: How about the Jolly Roger? Did you come up, did you find anything on the Jolly Roger and whether that was- I did look that up.

43:12 Elizabeth: Yeah, I was wondering about that one too.

43:14 Frank: I'll tell you what, Elizabeth, we'll leave that for our listeners.

43:17 Gregory: Yeah. What about fast food, seafood restaurants? Was that a thing before?

43:21 Elizabeth: Long John Silver. Also, I also read that in the book, Peter Pan, they reference that Captain Hook is the only man that Long John Silver is afraid of.

43:34 Frank: Readers, thank you very much for coming in and having this conversation with me today about Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.

43:44 Elizabeth: Thanks so much. Thank you.

43:45 Frank: It was great. You've been listening to Novel Conversations. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. I hope you find yourself in a novel conversation. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversation. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. I want to give special thanks to our readers today, Elizabeth Flood and Gregory James. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Foutz, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lavallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.