A Front-Row Seat with the Sportswriters Who Sat There
Sit down with host Todd Jones and other sportswriters who knew the greatest athletes and coaches, and experienced first-hand some of the biggest sports moments in the past 50 years. They’ll share stories behind the stories -- some they’ve only told to each other.
Sheldon Ocker: “Manny used to use other people's bats, pants, and shirts.”
Sheldon Ocker reflects on more than four decades of being a sportswriter in northeast Ohio with his customary wit and dry sense of humor. He takes into the clubhouse and behind the scenes during his 33 seasons of covering Major League Baseball in Cleveland for the Akron Beacon Journal. The Hall of Fame writer shares anecdotes from when the then-Indians were miserable in the 1980s and from when they morphed into memorable mashers in the ’90s. Hear about the time Albert Belle raced Ocker in their rental cars, about Manny Ramirez asking him for a $60,000 loan, and about what pitch call Jose Mesa shook off in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the 1997 World Series. Sheldon also has some great tales from his 10 years of covering the NBA as a Cavaliers beat reporter in the 1970s. His story about a day spent with infamous Cavs owner Ted Stepien is one of the best we’ve heard in nearly 70 episodes.
Ocker was honored with the J.G. Taylor Spink Award for meritorious contributions to baseball writing. He was presented with that award in July 2018 at the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum's induction in Cooperstown, N.Y. Besides his stellar reporting, Ocker was known for rarely taking a day off during a season when he covered baseball from 1981 until his retirement after the 2013 season. Sheldon was named the Ohio Sports Writer of the Year in 1997 and 2000 by the National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Association. He served as the president of the Baseball Writers’ Assocation of America in 1985 and as chair of the Cleveland chapter 11 times.
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Sheldon Ocker edited transcript:
PBA_Sheldon O
Speakers: Todd Jones & Sheldon Ocker
Todd Jones (00:00):
Sheldon, it's a pleasure to have you join us.
Sheldon Ocker (00:08):
It's my pleasure to be here.
Todd Jones (00:10):
You had nothing better to do than talk to me. Come on, Sheldon.
Sheldon Ocker (00:13):
You kidding me? This is the best thing I've done in like six months.
Todd Jones (00:19):
I am very, very thrilled that you're here. I miss seeing you up at the ballpark. You were someone I always respected and always enjoyed being with at the park. I know you had the respect of your peers, 33 seasons of covering Major League Baseball in Cleveland.
Todd Jones (00:37):
In 2018, you were awarded the Spink Award for meritorious contributions to baseball writing. Meritorious, that's quite a word, Sheldon.
Sheldon Ocker (00:48):
I think that means I was married twice.
Todd Jones (00:51):
Well, I know one thing. Your peers all respected you. The great Paul Hoynes, your friend, the competitor on the Cleveland beat. He said you possessed four essential qualities that beat writers need. Good reporter, strong opinions, could write on deadline, and you knew the best restaurants in every city on the road.
Sheldon Ocker (01:12):
The last one's right.
Todd Jones (02:01):
So, I know I mentioned in respect of your peers in all seriousness, but also, the athletes that you covered, the players. And I think it showed when you were honored at Cooperstown in 2018 at the Hall of Fame. The baseball writers had their traditional reception for honorees. You and Bob Costas were honored.
Todd Jones (02:22):
And Jim Tomie showed up at your reception. And he played for the Indians all those years, those great teams in the '90s. And you covered those teams.
Todd Jones (02:32):
What did it mean to you for a player that you covered to take the time to, as he said, pay you respect?
Sheldon Ocker (02:41):
Well, for one thing, I felt really honored to have been given that award and going to Hall of Fame the same year as he did as a player. And to me, that was one of the highlights for me that I could be there with him when he was being inducted.
Sheldon Ocker (02:57):
He's a great player and he is one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet. And it helped me to — first of all, I probably knew about 8 or 10 of the Hall of Famers that were there, that came back for the ceremony. So, that made me feel a little comfortable.
Sheldon Ocker (03:18):
But it just hit me what was going on when before you ... they had my ceremony and Bob Costas's on Saturday, and they do the players on Sunday. And everybody gathers in this room before they get on a bus to go to the site where the ceremony is.
Sheldon Ocker (03:44):
So, I walked into this room, and I look around and there's like 50 Hall of Fame players sitting there, and I'm thinking, "What in the hell? I must've gone in the wrong room, what am I doing here?"
Sheldon Ocker (03:59):
And so, I had to decide where I have to sit down and wait for the bus. So, should I sit at Eddie Murray's table, or Winfield's table, or Trevor Hoffman's table. And I'm thinking, "Well, I probably shouldn't sit anywhere."
Todd Jones (04:19):
Or should you serve the food?
Sheldon Ocker (04:21):
Yeah, right. And then there was no food to be served otherwise, that's probably what I would've done. But so, I saw Jim Tomie sitting he had about three seats at his table, so I sat with him.
Sheldon Ocker (04:34):
But that's when it struck me that this was a big deal. And it was a big deal in my life.
Todd Jones (04:43):
Well, it was well deserved all those years. I mean, I have so much respect for baseball writers. I was a guy who kind of did a little bit of everything and would pop in at the ballpark for a few days, and then I'd be off doing some other sport.
Todd Jones (04:54):
But the relentlessness of baseball, 162 games, regular season, spring training, playoffs, if your team is fortunate to go there. You got to be there day after day covering a game that's really has failure at its core.
Todd Jones (05:10):
You were known as somebody who rarely ever took a day off in your 33 seasons covering the Indians for the Akron Beacon Journal.
Sheldon Ocker (05:29):
When I started, I just went to work on Monday, and then I went to work on Tuesday, and then I went to work on Wednesday. And after a while, it was 1986 and I just kept going. I didn't really intend to do that. But once I started to do it, that's just how I did the job.
Sheldon Ocker (05:48):
And I didn't really have a backup because I never took a day off, so they just didn't give me a backup. And there were probably periods of five years when I didn't miss a game.
Todd Jones (06:37):
When you think back on all those years, what was it like for you to be a baseball writer?
Sheldon Ocker (06:44):
Well, you learn after a while that most baseball players, most athletes are just regular guys who happen to be really good at playing whatever they play.
Sheldon Ocker (06:55):
And of course, that does make a difference in their personalities too, because when you're told how great you are when you're six years old, and that continues into adulthood, it's going to affect your personality.
Sheldon Ocker (07:08):
But for the most part, most of these guys are just regular guys. And they kind of appreciated that you were there every single day, that you weren't in and out of ... they didn't like columnists because columnists would write their opinion and then they wouldn't be there the next day.
Sheldon Ocker (07:27):
And the players thought it was because they didn't want to face them. And it was really because, well, they had something else to do. They weren't covering baseball that day.
Sheldon Ocker (07:38):
But they knew if I wrote something they didn't like, I'd be there the next day. And they kind of treated you as not one of them, but as at least you're part of the woodwork that they look at every day, and they know you're going to show up.
Sheldon Ocker (07:55):
And that if they have 20 games in a row, and it's hard on them, they know that I'm going to be there 20 days in a row, and I have basically the same schedule they have.
Todd Jones (08:07):
Yeah. They were holding you accountable the same way a daily reporter was holding the team accountable.
Sheldon Ocker (08:13):
Yeah, yeah. That's kind of how it works.
Todd Jones (09:45):
Right, right. Well, I think the idea that you're there every day does strike a chord with people. I always felt like the athletes and coaches who understood how this game was played with the media, they did keep score in terms of who was around and who was working.
Todd Jones (10:00):
And I think that's where a work ethic, such as your own, paid off over the years.
Sheldon Ocker (10:05):
Yeah. Managers in particular, I think they pay attention to that. And I always got along with my manager. And one of the guys I liked the best, who just died the other day was Pat Corrales. Who could be kind of tough to work with, but I really liked him.
Sheldon Ocker (10:34):
And he would loosen up and tell stories. And Pat had kind of a bad temper when he was pushed or when he drank too much.
Sheldon Ocker (11:09):
One time, the Indians were playing Oakland. And Dave Stewart was pitching, and I forget if he hit a guy or almost hit a guy. There had been a couple incidents prior to that.
Sheldon Ocker (11:24):
And Corrales runs out of the dugout to the mound. He takes a swing at Stewart and misses, and Stewart karate kicked him. Or I'm sorry, he coldcocked him in the head with a punch and Corrales went down.
Sheldon Ocker (11:41):
And after the game, he had a welt, like right over here. And we asked him about the fight, and he says, "What fight? I wasn't in any fight. Dave Stewart and I weren't fighting." He just denied that the whole thing happened.
Todd Jones (12:02):
You mentioned he was tough, but you liked working with him. Why is that? You would think it would be the opposite if he was tough.
Sheldon Ocker (12:07):
He was real candid when he talked to you. I mean, he'd tell you everything going on, but he was candid. And you can have a casual conversation with him about his personal life. And he wasn't aversed to talking about that.
Sheldon Ocker (12:28):
He trusted people. I mean, he decided who he could trust, and he seemed like he trusted me and he trusted Hoynes. And another thing, because he saw us all the time.
Todd Jones (12:42):
Right, right. That conversation piece I always felt was a good way to build a rapport, a relationship, or then when you really needed to ask a tough question on deadline, they at least knew who you were because you had some kind of a rapport with you.
Todd Jones (12:57):
Was that always a way that you tried to approach the athletes and the coaches and the managers?
Sheldon Ocker (13:03):
Yeah. I mean, you just have an advantage when you're the beat writer compared to somebody who just shows up or maybe even the beat writer from another team that they don't know. There's a huge trust factor in all this stuff.
Sheldon Ocker (13:20):
And it's little different now, because you don't have the access that you used to have in any of these sports. And baseball had the most access. You could go to the ballpark at 2:00 in the afternoon, wander around the clubhouse from 2:00 in the afternoon till the game started, almost half hour before the game started.
Sheldon Ocker (13:42):
And so, you were at least part of the furniture. They didn't look around, "Oh, what's he doing in here?" They knew you were going to be there, and they didn't think it was a big deal. Now, if you get 45 minutes in the clubhouse, that's about it.
Todd Jones (14:01):
They don't really get to know you.
Sheldon Ocker (14:04):
And football was always real. You talk to the quarterback on Tuesday and the left tackle on Wednesday, and you get 10 minutes with each guy or whatever it is. And you never got the access to football that you had in baseball.
Sheldon Ocker (14:18):
The NBA, which I covered for 10 years, used to be almost as good as baseball. You could go in the locker room early and talk to guys. And you didn't have guys then that said, “Well, I don't talk before the game.” I mean, that didn't exist.
Todd Jones (14:41):
Yeah. Let's talk about that. Before you took over Major League Baseball beat for the Akron Beacon Journal in 1981, you did cover the NBA, the Cavs for 10 years.
Todd Jones (19:33):
Well, you show up the old Cleveland Arena back in the day with those Cavs teams and Bill Fitch as the coach. What was it like covering the NBA in the 1970s?
Sheldon Ocker (19:54):
Well, first of all, the arena, you can't imagine how bad it was. The visitor's locker room was so bad that a lot of the team stayed across the street. There was a hotel across the street, and they would get dressed in their rooms and walk across the street.
Todd Jones (20:17):
Really?
Sheldon Ocker (20:19):
One time I'm driving down the street, and I had to stop because Wilt Chamberlain was crossing the street in his warmups before I got in the parking lot. Yeah.
Sheldon Ocker (20:32):
And I remember John Havlicek was the Celtics player rep for the union and he would talk about how bad the visitor's locker room was.
Sheldon Ocker (20:43):
And I mean, it was one of those things where you turn the water on in the shower and somebody else turned the water on like in the sink, and you'd get scalded with hot water because they were using the cold water. And it was really bad.
Sheldon Ocker (21:02):
And so, that was one different, the facilities were nothing like they are now. If you've been in an NBA locker room now, it's almost like you're at the country club, the Augusta National locker room, where you-
Todd Jones (21:20):
Right. They're like palaces now, compared to like those old barns, like the Cleveland Arena.
Sheldon Ocker (21:25):
Right. And so, that was one difference.
Sheldon Ocker (21:28):
Another thing was I don't think any media people sit at the scores table. At that time, the home team writers would sit right next to the home team bench, and the visiting team writers would sit next to the visiting team bench, except in Los Angeles. They were the vanguard of-
Todd Jones (21:59):
Putting the celebrities on the front row instead of the hacks.
Sheldon Ocker (22:02):
Yeah. Well, they didn't even do that then. But the media sat in the grandstand and they were pretty good seats, but they were not in the front row, and they were not near the benches.
Todd Jones (22:15):
But you're sitting next to the coach, you can hear everything.
Sheldon Ocker (22:18):
Right, yeah. What's going on in the huddle and all that stuff. And I remember one time, a fan was heckling one of the players on the visiting team. And I'm sitting there and the guy's behind me, about four rows behind me and the player, he got so mad, he went after him. He jumped over me.
Sheldon Ocker (22:45):
I can't remember who it was. It was a big, like a 6'10" guy, and into the stands. And they caught him before he got the guy.
Sheldon Ocker (22:57):
And I remember Fitch had to do the same thing with one of his players. He went in the stands trying to get a heckler, and Fitch ran after him. Fitch was a martial arts teacher, instructor in the Army.
Todd Jones (23:12):
So, he could keep order.
Sheldon Ocker (23:14):
Yeah, he could hold his own. But he was much better keeping order with his mouth because he ... I remember there was one game, and I didn't actually see this because it was in the locker room at halftime. They were losing, and this was when they were still the expansion team years.
Sheldon Ocker (23:31):
And Fitch goes in the locker room and doesn't say anything to him. He goes, continues on into the showers and the toilets, and he flushes the toilet five times. And he goes, "There go my starters."
Todd Jones (23:57):
Did that make your story?
Sheldon Ocker (23:59):
I don't think I knew about it till like three days later or something.
Todd Jones (24:04):
Well, there was certainly a lot of humor in those days in the NBA too.
Todd Jones (24:08):
And before we leave your decade of NBA writing, I must bring up the name of Ted Stepien.
Sheldon Ocker (24:16):
We need another set, another eight hours for that.
Todd Jones (24:19):
Oh, yeah. Well, we might do an extended version of this.
Todd Jones (24:22):
So, Ted Stepien purchased the Cleveland Cavaliers in 1980. And I think soon afterward, you asked him for an interview. Can you please tell us what transpired from that point?
Sheldon Ocker (24:44):
Well, they wanted a story about him in the Sunday magazine. And I didn't know much about him except people thought he was a pain in the ass. But other than that, I didn't really know anything about him, except he had a softball team. That's another story.
Sheldon Ocker (25:06):
But anyway, so, I said, "Mr. Stepien ..." This is at the press conference that he had to announce his ownership. I says, “I need you for a couple, two, three hours for a story for our Sunday magazine.” He says, "Why don't you come over Sunday after church and we'll sit out by the pool and watch porn."
Todd Jones (25:27):
Oh, come on.
Sheldon Ocker (25:28):
Yeah.
Todd Jones (25:33):
So, did you do it?
Sheldon Ocker (25:34):
Well, not exactly. So, I go over to his house on Sunday.
Todd Jones (25:39):
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. How can you not exactly porn?
Sheldon Ocker (25:42):
Well, no, I mean, the whole thing didn't. I went over to his house and he wasn't home.
Todd Jones (25:48):
He was inside watching porn.
Sheldon Ocker (25:51):
He had six daughters and one of them answered the door. And I says, "Where's your dad?" She says, "Well, he's at an audition for the team cheerleader squad." I said, "Well, where is it?"
Sheldon Ocker (26:05):
And she didn't know. And I had to call like eight people to find out where it was. And it was at a nightclub that closed on Sunday in Willoughby in Lake County.
Sheldon Ocker (26:20):
So, I go over there and open the door, and it was basically dark inside, except for where the girls were doing their cheerleading thing, auditioning.
Sheldon Ocker (26:34):
So, he saw the sliver of light from the door, and he turned his head and he saw who it was. He says, "It's not my fault. It's not my fault. I forgot I had to do this." I says, "Don't worry about it."
Sheldon Ocker (26:49):
So, I go in and I come in the middle of the auditions. So, the girls are each one does a cheerleading thing. And then it's Miss America. He's sitting there with two other people. He hired these two people who owned a dance studio to be his experts. So, they're sitting there, the three of them.
Sheldon Ocker (27:15):
And Ted has these questions that he asks like, what's your favorite color? Do you like comedies or dramas? Or do you like hot dogs or hamburgers, or do you like mustard or ketchup? I mean, really-
Todd Jones (27:37):
This is the owner of an NBA franchise in a strip club, mind you.
Sheldon Ocker (27:43):
In a strip club.
Todd Jones (27:45):
I mean, come on.
Sheldon Ocker (27:48):
Well, he turned it into a strip club.
Todd Jones (27:52):
Oh, this is before he turned it into a strip club.
Sheldon Ocker (27:55):
Yeah. So, he asked this one girl, "Would you go to a naked beach?" And she thinks for a while, and she says, "Yeah, I'd go with my husband." And Ted says, "I didn't say anything about a husband."
Todd Jones (28:16):
No. I mean, the NBA should have known what they were getting into with this guy as soon as he bought the team.
Sheldon Ocker (28:25):
Yeah, they should have. So, when it was over, we'd go over to his house. He says, "Follow me and we'll go to my house and do the interview."
Sheldon Ocker (28:34):
So, he had to pick the team first. So, he and the two dance people are sitting at the dining room table, and they have these index cards with the score of each thing that the girls did. And it's a poise. I gave her a six. So, I gave her a four. I gave her an eight.
Todd Jones (28:57):
Oh, for God's sake.
Sheldon Ocker (28:58):
And Ted would go, "She has small tits, she's out." And he would sail the index card into the living room.
Todd Jones (29:10):
This sounds like a bad movie.
Sheldon Ocker (29:12):
It was a bad movie. And this goes on for like there was 40 or 50 girls that tried out.
Todd Jones (29:24):
I mean, what were you thinking? I mean, this is absurd. I mean, this is an NBA owner.
Sheldon Ocker (29:29):
That's what I was thinking, that this is absurd.
Todd Jones (29:33):
Not to mention just treating women that way. What is going on here?
Sheldon Ocker (29:38):
Well, Ted was famous for that, or I found out that he was.
Sheldon Ocker (29:41):
He had hired some college girls to sell season tickets, and one of them became his girlfriend. Ted was 56, this girl was 21. And she was at the audition at his house afterwards. And when we got-
Todd Jones (30:01):
Well, I think she made the squad then, right?
Sheldon Ocker (30:04):
No, she was above the squad.
Todd Jones (30:09):
She went right into management.
Sheldon Ocker (30:10):
Right. She was in management because when we got there, Ted says, "Janice, why don't you go in the kitchen and make some bologna sandwiches for everybody?"
Todd Jones (30:19):
God.
Sheldon Ocker (30:21):
I haven't even gotten to the worst part yet.
Todd Jones (30:24):
Oh, here we go.
Sheldon Ocker (30:28):
When he gets done with all these index cards, he picks like 12 girls. And one of the dance people say, "Ted, you didn't pick any black girls." And he looked at them like they were talking a foreign language. He didn't understand that concept of what difference does it make?
Sheldon Ocker (30:51):
But he says, "Okay, we'll do that." So, he gathers up the index cards and they go through them again, and they pick a couple black girls. And they finally get done with that.
Sheldon Ocker (31:08):
And the woman dance person says, "Well, we have to pick a name." And she says, "How about The Teddy Bears?" That's the original, anything to get on Ted's good side.
Todd Jones (31:26):
Oh my god.
Sheldon Ocker (31:28):
And he's thinking about it. And he looks at me and he says, "What do you think of that?" And I said, "Well, Ted, I don't know if people are going to think it's name for you and it might not be a good look." And he thought that might make sense.
Sheldon Ocker (31:45):
And the woman looked at me like if looks could kill, I'd have been done right there on the spot. So, he said, "Well, we're going to wait a while for that." And they eventually did name them The Teddy Bears.
Todd Jones (32:00):
They did. They chose that name.
Sheldon Ocker (32:03):
And so, afterwards, Ted's telling me about one of his daughters, and he wanted her to go to film school and be a movie star, but instead she went to Kent. And she happened to be home that day. And we had a photographer that came to the house to take pictures for the story.
Sheldon Ocker (32:29):
And he tells his daughter to go upstairs and put on a nice dress and everything. So, she goes up, puts on this green cocktail dress, and comes downstairs and he's taking pics. She's like doing twirls and posing and all this stuff.
Sheldon Ocker (32:51):
Ted loves softball. There's softball players walking in and out of the house for some reason. And it was like a train station for about an hour.
Sheldon Ocker (33:04):
Anyway, he finally gets done with the cheerleading stuff. And he says, "I tried to get my daughter in the Miss Ohio contest and eventually cost me 10 grand to get her in. And then she didn't win."
Todd Jones (33:25):
Oh, God. Is he really like a human? Was he a part of our species?
Sheldon Ocker (33:34):
At the time, we did a DNA, he did a test. He was. I mean, there's millions of stories about Ted and none of them are good.
Todd Jones (33:51):
Well, I think what it shows is it shows you where the NBA was at that time. They would let a guy like Ted Stepien become an owner of a team.
Todd Jones (37:52):
So, in 1981, after a decade of covering the NBA, the Akron Beacon Journal comes to you and wants you to move over to baseball, to cover the Indians, as we now, call them the Guardians.
Todd Jones (39:41):
What was it like covering the Indians in the 1980s? Because we think of them as the '90s, the great teams that they had. But man, they're playing at the old Municipal Stadium, they're not winning, there's not many people.
Todd Jones (39:55):
What was it like going to the park every day as a baseball beat writer in the 1980s?
Sheldon Ocker (40:01):
Well, you know Tim Kurkjian?
Todd Jones (40:03):
Yes. He was on our show.
Sheldon Ocker (40:05):
Oh, okay. Well, Tim was working at the Baltimore Sun at the time covering the Orioles.
Sheldon Ocker (40:13):
And one day, it was around 1990 or 1991, he comes up to me and he says, "I did some research. You're the losiest pro beat writer in the country."
Todd Jones (40:27):
Oh really? You're going to win some award.
Sheldon Ocker (40:31):
Yeah. But I said, "Well, Tim, give me my award." Well, they lost a hundred or more games three times in a seven-year span. And that's pretty bad.
Sheldon Ocker (40:42):
The only thing about when you cover bad teams, there's usually more stories than when you cover good teams because there's all kinds of stuff going on. The players are there-
Todd Jones (40:56):
There's just more buffoonery going on.
Sheldon Ocker (40:58):
Yeah. Not that I was hoping that they would lose all the time, but that's the way it happens.
Sheldon Ocker (41:05):
And a lot of the time, it was just, they were on this treadmill. Gabe Paul was the general manager and the president of the team at the time.
Sheldon Ocker (41:17):
And one year he would trade all the hitters for good pitchers, and then that didn't work. So, a couple years later, he traded all the pitchers for hitters. And he could never get it right.
Todd Jones (41:31):
Well-Rounded approach.
Sheldon Ocker (41:32):
Yeah. He could never get it right. I mean, he knew what he was doing, but it was like the Indians under the Dolans, they just didn't have any money.
Sheldon Ocker (41:42):
And it was a lot worse then. I mean, there was a time when they almost missed a payroll which is far different than now.
Todd Jones (45:18):
Right, right. Well, everything became different in the 1990s when Jacobs Field opened, and John Hart, general manager, Mike Hargrove, the manager, and all this talent amassed for the Indians. And all of a sudden it became the place to be 455 consecutive sellouts, this magical team to cover.
Todd Jones (45:45):
What was the energy like on the beat, and how did that impact your job through the 1990s as a major league baseball writer?
Sheldon Ocker (45:54):
Well, for one thing, suddenly, instead of three beat riders and that's it, covering the team, suddenly you had all these Jim Ingraham covered for the Lake County Herold. And we had all of a sudden, there's like five radio guys there and TV guys every night from the local stations.
Sheldon Ocker (46:36):
And so, that was one thing that was different.
Sheldon Ocker (46:43):
Another thing, they almost had to regulate your access more because they had more people. And it's one thing if you have three people in the clubhouse, what's a big deal.
Todd Jones (47:02):
Yeah. Instead of you, Jim, and Hoynes having a conversation, you got somebody-
Sheldon Ocker (47:04):
Now, you got 30 guys in there.
Todd Jones (47:08):
Right. So, that impacted how you did your job. Yeah.
Sheldon Ocker (47:11):
And the players were more serious about their job. They went about things more seriously. They took it more seriously. They knew they could win something big.
Sheldon Ocker (47:27):
And so, it wasn't like a big party or anything that they were so happy to be winning. It was, they took their job seriously. More so than they had before. Except a couple guys.
Sheldon Ocker (47:44):
One time Carlos Baerga, I walked in the clubhouse and his locker was right near the door when you walk in. And I see a guy measuring him like for a suit.
Todd Jones (47:56):
Like what is he? A corpse?
Sheldon Ocker (48:01):
So, he had his tailor come in the clubhouse and is measuring him for a new suit.
Todd Jones (48:07):
Well, I know the tailor wasn't measuring a sportswriter. I know that.
Sheldon Ocker (48:11):
No, no, not for that.
Todd Jones (48:15):
So, Carlos is getting measured for a new suit.
Sheldon Ocker (48:17):
And I'm thinking, "This is not really good. I mean, what's he thinking? Why would he do this in the clubhouse where everybody can see him, where John Hart's going to hear about it?"
Sheldon Ocker (48:28):
And he got traded, I don't know if it was that year or the next year, and he was still a good player. But John saw that he was not serious anymore about what he was doing, and he got rid of him. And Carlos is one of the few players that I ever saw that went from the top to the bottom in like six months.
Todd Jones (48:55):
Yeah. All of a sudden his whole career changed. Yeah.
Sheldon Ocker (48:57):
Yeah. You don't see that very often. And it was because he just was partying all the time.
Sheldon Ocker (49:02):
I remember I saw him in Detroit. I was walking down the street in Greektown, and this limo stops across the street from where I am. And there's like nine people get out, and it's Carlos's limo that he rented, and they go into this club.
Sheldon Ocker (49:20):
So, I had to give John credit for getting ahead of this. And he's trading a good player when he is still good.
Todd Jones (49:32):
Yeah. John had his pulse on what was going on down there at the clubhouse.
Sheldon Ocker (49:34):
But he saw what was going on.
Todd Jones (49:38):
Well, what was going on for the team was success. And really when you think about those teams, was the offense, just that those guys could just mash. I mean, in '99 they scored a thousand runs, ‘95 team that went 144 in a strike shortened year that people forget the season started late. That lineup was just incredible.
Todd Jones (50:00):
And you had some hitters who were also characters. And one of those that certainly comes to mind from a beat writer perspective is Albert Belle.
Todd Jones (50:14):
Let's just have you describe what it was like to cover Albert Belle on a daily basis.
Sheldon Ocker (50:20):
Well, after a while, you get used to Albert, and I didn't realize what an impact he had in the clubhouse until he left.
Sheldon Ocker (50:32):
And I remember walking into spring training in Winter Haven, Florida the year after he had gone in free agency. And I walk into the clubhouse and guys are talking, and there's laughing. And I said, "Well, there's something different here. Something's going on. This isn't the way it's been for the last 8, 10 years."
Sheldon Ocker (51:00):
And it dawned on me that Albert's gone, the dark cloud over the clubhouse has moved on. And that's the kind of difference he made in the clubhouse. I think everybody was always just a little bit on edge and not quite themselves as long as-
Todd Jones (51:20):
Because he had a volcanic temper.
I mean, you had to be like walking on eggshells around him. Right?
Sheldon Ocker (51:36):
Well, I learned after a while that Albert, some of his tantrums were for show. He got off doing that. He thought it was fun doing that. He got a kick out of doing that. And I think he did a lot of it on purpose. That he wasn't really as mad as he seemed. He wasn't going to do anything violent when he threatened to.
Sheldon Ocker (52:08):
I remember Bud Shaw, who used to write for The Plain Dealer.
Todd Jones (52:13):
Right. We had Bud on our show too. Yeah.
Sheldon Ocker (52:15):
Bud is there one day, and Albert comes in from batting practice, and he accuses Bud of looking in his locker for something.
Todd Jones (52:55):
Which he didn't.
Sheldon Ocker (52:55):
And Albert knew very well that he didn't. Albert was just-
Todd Jones (52:59):
Right. Writers don't do that. Right.
Sheldon Ocker (53:00):
Yeah. Albert, so, he starts yelling at him and threatening him. And I'm watching this, and I'm thinking, it went on for so long. I says, "Well, why doesn't Albert punch him? What's taking so long?" Albert's threatening and all this stuff.
Sheldon Ocker (53:18):
And it dawned on me, he's doing this for sport, he just wants to intimidate Bud. And Albert gets off on that. And of course, nothing happened. And from then on, I knew Albert's mostly just bluff.
Todd Jones (53:35):
Did you ever have confrontations with Albert personally?
Sheldon Ocker (53:40):
Yeah, everybody did. Not as bad as that, but the thing about Albert is you just couldn't take any shit from him. And it took like five years to figure this out, but I'm kind of slow.
Sheldon Ocker (54:02):
I remember I was standing at the batting cage watching batting practice, and Albert's standing next to me, and he has a bat in his hand, and he puts it down on my foot. I says, "Albert, get that out of here." And he did. He didn't say a word, and he just took it off. And that was the end of it.
Todd Jones (54:25):
He just messing with you.
Sheldon Ocker (54:26):
Yeah.
Todd Jones (54:27):
I once had Bobby Bonilla swinging a bat in front of my face like he was warming up practicing, to see if I would run away. And I'm like, "I'm not leaving. If he hits me in the head, I might get to retire. But I'm not going to leave." Sometimes they would just test you that way.
Sheldon Ocker (54:44):
One time, we were in Kansas City and the ballpark is far from where you're going to stay in a ... well, I shouldn't say that necessarily. Probably you're not going to stay near the ballpark. And the team didn't, and I didn't. And so, I always had a car.
Sheldon Ocker (55:03):
So, I get in my car after the game, I think Hoynes was in the car, maybe Jim Ingraham was in the car too. And I start going out and there's another car right in front of me, and it's Albert. And he was with Wayne Kirby, who was a bench guy.
Sheldon Ocker (55:25):
So, there's this winding driveway to the park. We get out to the street, and then you get right on the freeway. Albert wants to race.
Todd Jones (55:38):
No, come on. He's going to race the beat reporters.
Sheldon Ocker (55:40):
Yeah. Now, if there's one thing that I know I'm better than Albert at, it's driving a car. I'll race. And if somebody wants to race, I'm fine.
Todd Jones (55:54):
So, you're behind the wheel. What happens?
Sheldon Ocker (55:56):
We race downtown. It's like, I don't know, six, eight miles downtown. And then you have to take the city streets up to it's called Country Club Plaza, where the hotel was. And we raced the whole way. And I beat him.
Todd Jones (56:16):
So, wait a minute, you, Hoynes, and Jim in his rental car are racing Albert Belle in his rental car.
Sheldon Ocker (56:22):
His rental car, yeah. And when we get there, I just get out of the car and walk in the hotel, and Albert's pretty close right behind. And he never said a word about it ever. He wasn't-
Todd Jones (56:36):
Did you ever say a word to him about it?
Sheldon Ocker (56:38):
No. I wasn't going to say a word to him either.
Todd Jones (56:43):
But you had that card if you could play.
Sheldon Ocker (56:45):
Yeah, because he knew who won and there was witnesses.
Todd Jones (56:50):
That's tremendous. I've never heard of an athlete racing the writers in a car.
Todd Jones (56:58):
Well, you think about Albert though and the tantrums and the mood. But man, what a hitter. I mean, unbelievable hitter and work ethic that he put into it. I mean, you saw a guy at the apex of his craft when you were covering him when he was in the middle of that Indians lineup.
Sheldon Ocker (57:19):
Well, that whole team, probably '95, more so than the other years, if you think about that, that has to be one of the top three offensive teams in the history of baseball.
Todd Jones (57:34):
Oh, definitely.
Sheldon Ocker (57:36):
There was one or two teams in the '30s when the ball was really juiced. And it's not a fair comparison even, but that probably was every bit as good as the 27 Yankees.
Todd Jones (01:00:30):
Well, Albert Belle was such a fantastic hitter, but there were others in that lineup as we noted. And one I want to touch on is Manny Ramirez, because not only was he a prolific hitter, but what a character. Everybody has heard legendary tales of Manny being Manny.
Todd Jones (01:00:48):
You covered the guy many years in Cleveland. Give us a little taste of Manny being Manny from your perspective.
Sheldon Ocker (01:00:57):
Well, one time I was just walking through the clubhouse, and somebody jumps on my back and like, "What's going on?" And by the time I could turn around, it was Manny who got off of me and walked past me, turned around and smiled and just kept walking.
Todd Jones (01:01:21):
That's it?
Sheldon Ocker (01:01:22):
Yeah. I don't know what he's thinking or anything.
Todd Jones (01:01:28):
Well, who knew what he was thinking? Right?
Sheldon Ocker (01:01:30):
Yeah. One time, I think it was Hoynes who saw his paycheck was on the floor of his locker and said something about he just had paychecks sitting around.
Todd Jones (01:01:48):
Yeah. He left one in a cowboy boot, I think at a game at Texas or something.
Sheldon Ocker (01:01:50):
Yeah, there was the cowboy boot one. Well, one time he asked the clubhouse guys, it was either to get his car washed or serviced or something. And he says, "Well, there'll be money in the glove compartment to pay for it."
Sheldon Ocker (01:02:05):
So, they go out and they get whatever they're supposed to do, and they open the glove compartment, and there's an envelope with $10,000 in hundreds.
Todd Jones (01:02:21):
Again, not the writer's car, the athlete's car.
He got stopped for speeding in Cleveland one night. And the cops recognized him and they said, "Manny, we're sorry. We're going to have to give you a ticket." And Manny says, "Oh, you don't have to give me tickets. I can get you tickets."
Todd Jones (01:02:48):
I think that was the one where he got like three tickets, right?
Sheldon Ocker (01:02:51):
Yeah. So, they give him the ticket and he leaves and he makes a U-turn, and he gets another ticket for making a U-turn.
Todd Jones (01:03:03):
He gets four. I think it was loud music, tinted windows, speeding, and U-turn.
Sheldon Ocker (01:03:08):
Well, Manny, supposedly, he had like three or four different driver's licenses, and he supposedly had two social security numbers. I don't know if that was true, but that was a story.
Todd Jones (01:03:23):
Wow. Didn't he once come up to you and Paul Hoynes and he basically wanted a loan or something. Right?
Sheldon Ocker (01:03:31):
This was in Kansas City again. He was a rookie. He's sitting with Julian Tavarez at a table in the clubhouse. Julian was one of the relief pitchers.
Sheldon Ocker (01:03:42):
And he calls me over and I says, “What do you need, man?” He says, "Can you loan Julian and I $60,000?" And I reached in my pocket and I took out my money. I says, "I don't have that much with me." And he says, "Well, how about 30,000?"
Todd Jones (01:04:01):
It's in your glove compartment.
Sheldon Ocker (01:04:03):
Right. Yeah. So, I said, “What do you want it for?” And he said, "Well, we saw these two Harleys that we really like to have, and they're $30,000 a piece."
Todd Jones (01:04:15):
He thought you and Hoynes were walking around with 60 grand.
Sheldon Ocker (01:04:18):
Yeah. So, we go into Hargrove’s office a little later to pre-game meeting and stuff. I says, "You know your right fielder's going around asking people for $60,000?" He says, "Yeah, I heard about it." He says, "He already asked John Hart for an advance on his salary, which of course he didn't get."
Sheldon Ocker (01:04:42):
Manny thought he was really street smart. I mean, he grew up in Washington Heights in New York, which is the toll neighborhood is Dominican. And there's gangs, or there used to be, anyway, gangs and all kinds of stuff going on.
Sheldon Ocker (01:05:05):
But they used to leave Manny alone because he was this baseball player, and they knew how good he was. And, “Hey, don't mess around with Manny. Let him do what he wants because he's going to do us proud when he gets old enough to play.” So, they were right.
Todd Jones (01:05:24):
They were right. They were very right about that.
Sheldon Ocker (01:05:26):
Manny was undereducated and people thought he was dumb. I don't think he was dumb. He was undereducated. And I think he had ADD. Somebody told me one time that he used to go to the Cleveland Clinic for these therapy sessions for having ADD. The unions denied it. I asked them, but I don't think they were telling me the truth.
Sheldon Ocker (01:05:49):
Because he used to do these things like on ball four, he wouldn't go to first because he didn't realize it was ball four. Or on ball three, he would ride a run to first because he didn't realize it was ball three. He'd do little things like that.
Sheldon Ocker (01:06:09):
And I remember after he went to these sessions for a while, he quit doing some of that stuff. So, I think that was a problem with him too.
Todd Jones (01:06:17):
There was the one time he stole second. I think Tony was at the plate, he steals second and he's standing on a base, and then he just starts jogging back the first.
Sheldon Ocker (01:06:27):
Yeah. He thought it was a foul ball. And wait a minute, why did he go … I can't even remember why he went back to first. Yeah.
Todd Jones (01:06:35):
Well, they tagged him out. So, he was basically thrown out stealing first.
Sheldon Ocker (01:06:38):
Yeah, from second.
Todd Jones (01:06:42):
Yeah, from second.
Sheldon Ocker (01:07:30):
There was the one where he hit a home run. And after the game, he says, "Well, my bat was broke." I says, "You mean you broke it when you hit the home run?" "No, no, it was broken before I went up there to the plate."
Todd Jones (01:07:45):
So, he went up to the plate with a broken bat with a broken on purpose.
Sheldon Ocker (01:07:47):
I said, "Well, why would you use a broken bat?" He says, "Well, I like that bat."
Todd Jones (01:07:57):
I think there was a time in spring training once where he hit like three straight homers using the bats of three teammates.
Sheldon Ocker (01:08:05):
Yeah. He used to just use other people's bats, other people's pants, other people's shirts. If you were missing a glove or something, you would always go to Manny's locker and look to see if it was in there.
Sheldon Ocker (01:08:19):
The inning used to have a bullpen catcher who was kind of hefty. And Manny would wear his baggy pants to take batting practice.
Todd Jones (01:08:38):
Just pick up a spare pair of pants.
Sheldon Ocker (01:08:40):
Yeah. He liked his pants. I guess he thought it was funny to — which, he was funny to have him wearing the guy's pants.
Todd Jones (01:08:48):
Well, he wasn't going to borrow the clothes of the sportswriters.
Sheldon Ocker (01:08:51):
No, that's for sure.
Todd Jones (01:08:52):
He borrowed their money, but not their clothes.
Sheldon Ocker (01:08:54):
Right. Yeah. Well, he only had one problem. We didn't have any money.
Todd Jones (01:09:02):
That's right.
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:04):
I did loan a player money though once.
Todd Jones (01:09:08):
You did. Who? Pray tell.
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:11):
Omar Vizquel.
Todd Jones (01:09:14):
Really?
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:15):
We were in Houston, and the hotel was connected to a mall. And I'm walking through the mall and Omar comes up and he says, "Can I borrow a hundred dollars?" And I said, "Yeah."
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:28):
And what am I going to say? I'm not going to give Omar Vizquel money. So, he paid it back the next day. I don't know why I wanted it, but-
Todd Jones (01:09:39):
What kind of interest up there in northeast Ohio?
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:41):
For one day?
Todd Jones (01:09:41):
Yeah.
Sheldon Ocker (01:09:43):
I let him give me 98. It's reverse interest.
Todd Jones (01:09:50):
Well, the thing about these stories of guys like Manny and Belle is that you forget that the work ethic those guys had, and the time that they put into their craft made them great players.
Todd Jones (01:10:04):
I mean, we joke and laugh and there's some funny, funny stories, but these were talents of their generation at the plate. And that's why that lineup in that team was so successful, right?
Sheldon Ocker (01:10:14):
Yeah. I mean, well, people thought Manny was just a natural hitter, and he didn't have to think about anything. He just go up there and hit 320 and 40 home runs.
Sheldon Ocker (01:10:26):
But Manny was kind of a hitting savant. Manny would watch video all the time of himself. And he'd took batting for extra batting practice all the time, and he really knew what he was doing when he went up there.
Sheldon Ocker (01:10:39):
It wasn't just he'd have him be blessed with great talent. So, he just went up there and closed his eyes and hit. He worked hard at it. So did Albert.
Todd Jones (01:11:39):
Well, the Indians of the '90s certainly put the work in and they had the talent. But when you look back, they just came up a little short. The '95 World Series against the Braves and the painful ‘97 World Series against the Marlins losing both.
Todd Jones (01:11:57):
How do you think about those ball clubs when you look back on them now?
Sheldon Ocker (01:12:01):
Well, I mean, of course, in '97, if Jose Mesa throws his fastball like Alomar wanted him to, the Indians probably win that World Series.
Todd Jones (01:12:16):
Well, please explain that to us.
Sheldon Ocker (01:12:18):
Mesa's comes in to save the game.
Todd Jones (01:12:22):
This is game seven. The Indians are leading the Florida Marlins two to one, the bottom of the ninth. Cleveland is on the doorstep of winning its first World Series championship since 1948.
Sheldon Ocker (01:12:33):
The network has already set up their stuff in the Indians clubhouse, they have all the lockers covered with plastic, and they have a little deus and they're ready to do the presentation. And Dick Jacobs is in the clubhouse already.
Sheldon Ocker (01:12:54):
And Jose Mesa backs, Sandy Alomar is catching, he calls for a fastball from Mesa, which is his best pitch. And Mesa shakes him off no. Alomar says, “Throw a fastball.” “No.” So, he throws a curve ball or a slider, whatever it was, and the guy gets a hit, ties the game.
Sheldon Ocker (01:13:15):
And that should have been if he throws a fast ball, probably gets him out. And that's the end of the game.
Todd Jones (01:13:24):
Why didn't he throw the fastball?
Sheldon Ocker (01:13:27):
Who knows? I mean, when Mesa blew a safe, he was almost inconsolable.
Sheldon Ocker (01:13:40):
He would like mope around for like four or five days. You couldn't talk to him. He was just too upset.
Todd Jones (01:13:49):
Did he talk after that game seven?
Sheldon Ocker (01:13:51):
I was on deadline and I couldn't go down there. I don't think he did but I don't remember for sure.
Sheldon Ocker (01:14:03):
And at the time, it wasn't clear that that was a mistake, that the pitch he threw was the wrong pitch. Well, yeah, they should have won then.
Todd Jones (01:15:12):
We talked of some NBA about a decade covering basketball, but then 33 years of covering baseball. When you look back now, Sheldon, how do you think about the career that you had?
Sheldon Ocker (01:15:32):
Well, I was supposed to be a lawyer, and I went to law school for four quarters at Ohio State. And a friend of mine who had been in journalism school and then quit school, went in the army, came back after two years, and I was still there.
Sheldon Ocker (01:15:58):
I was in law school, and I used to see him and he'd tell me about what he was doing in journalism school and stuff. And I quit law school to do this. And everybody was mad at me, of course.
Sheldon Ocker (01:16:19):
Well, I think I probably did the right thing. I did my job. People thought it was okay. And for the most part, I got along with everybody, I got along with the baseball people. I wrote some decent stories. I had a lot of interesting experiences.
Todd Jones (01:16:44):
You were honored by the Baseball Hall of Fame, Sheldon. Come on, you're being much too-
Sheldon Ocker (01:16:48):
Well, yeah. I mean, I never thought. It was a slow year.
Todd Jones (01:16:51):
You had quite the career.
Sheldon Ocker (01:16:53):
It was a slow year, but yeah, I certainly didn't expect anything like that. And even if that hadn't have happened, I would be happy with my choice of a career.
Sheldon Ocker (01:19:34):
Todd, you got to think of it this way. If you're at the ballpark, you don't have to pay the electric bill.
Todd Jones (01:19:44):
That's right. You don't have to cut the grass. You don't have to run any errands. You're just typing away about a game in front of you.
Sheldon Ocker (01:19:51):
Yeah. Especially if you're a thousand miles away.
Todd Jones (01:19:54):
That's right. That's right.
Todd Jones (01:19:55):
Well, Sheldon, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate catching up again, and your stories were fantastic. And I wish you all the best.
-end-
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