Bonus Episode #1 – Relentless Compassion with Sarah Frauenzimmer

Annmarie Kelly:

As regular listeners will know, I recently interviewed author, psychotherapist, and interfaith minister Nancy Colier about her book, The Emotionally Exhausted Woman.

If you haven't heard that episode yet, I'll just share that one of Nancy Colier's premises is that we are more capable of feeling better, less depleted, and more energized, more capable than we realize. We are in charge of more of our story.

But that starts with listening to our desires, owning our truth, and taking steps to do more of what we actually want.

As I considered Nancy's book, I realized that one of my own struggles is that I haven't always prioritized friendships. Many of my friends live far away, they have jobs and responsibilities. I don't want to call at a bad time or be a bother, but I miss them, and I want to connect better.

So, over these next few days, I am going to introduce you to a few women who fill up my soul, and help me believe in collective strength and goodness and light.

When we're feeling depleted or lost, chances are good that there's someone we know, often, just a phone call away who can lend us some of their shine.

First up today, is Sarah Frauenzimmer. Sarah is a wife, mother, writer, yoga teacher, and all around, amazing human. In conversations other places, she's talked about what it's like to parent neurodivergent kids, especially when you have anxiety yourself, and how she's continued to seek permission to prioritize her own needs alongside her families.

She does all this with grace, humor, and honesty. Sarah currently lives in Southeastern Virginia with her husband and their two kids.

Sarah Frauenzimmer, welcome to Wild Precious Life. Will you introduce us to you? Will you introduce yourself to us?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Sure.

Annmarie Kelly:

Who are you?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

I am Sarah Frauenzimmer, and I am a current resident of Southeastern Virginia. And that's now, the longest place I've lived anywhere since I left home at 18.

Annmarie Kelly:

Wow. How many years?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

We've now been here for six years. I know.

Annmarie Kelly:

Oh my gosh. Six in a row?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Six years in a row. It's astonishing.

Annmarie Kelly:

I'm so jealous of that. Let me think. No, we haven't successfully done more than four, and we’re not even in the military anymore.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

It's been really interesting.

Annmarie Kelly:

I mentioned this to you, but I'm going to say some questions out now. So, we talked to Nancy Colier about The Emotionally Exhausted Woman, and her subtitle was “Why you're Feeling Depleted and How to Get What you Need.”

And I opened it up and the very first question made me cry because it said, “Who takes care of you?” So, I'm actually just going to ask you that: who takes care of you?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

That's a really good question. I would say emotionally, it's my friends, but I have a really good network of people who I can just unleash whatever is happening and receive some support.

But I have this bullet journal and it has a question on every day above the section that has pictures of water cups that I'm supposed to check how many cups of water. And it has this box and it says “Act of self-care for the day.” And sometimes, I just write, “Huh?”

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Because I cannot identify one, and going to the bathroom alone does not count.

Annmarie Kelly:

It's funny, I think I count that. But you're right that that is not a privilege. It's just a bodily function. Oh my gosh.

One of the other things that Nancy asked or made me think about was, what is it you really want? Can you verbalize it? Do you say it out loud? Do you write it in that journal like Sarah Frauenzimmer, what is it you really want?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

I want to not come to the end of my life and for people just to say I had a clean house for many years because my husband is in the Navy, and has been gone a lot. And there have been many times when he has said, “Do you want to get someone to help you clean?”

And I, for many, many years said, “No, no, no, I don't have a job. So, that doesn't make sense.” And I finally relented maybe a year or so ago, and twice a month, I have a wonderful angel who arrives on my doorstep and makes it so that my house smells so good.

And it was because I reached this point that I thought if all I ever do is clean, all I will ever do is clean. And so, there needed to be a little less of that falling to me so that there was maybe some space for me to do something else.

Annmarie Kelly:

Letting go, relinquishing some of the housework to then fill your bucket and other people's buckets, and just share the wonderfulness of you, makes sense to me. But it sometimes means we have to give ourselves permission because you do have a job.

You've got two beautiful children, and a husband who has moved you guys all over God's green earth. Every time I checked in with you in past years, you're always unpacking or packing a box.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

That's true.

Annmarie Kelly:

Buying the house next door.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

That's right.

Annmarie Kelly:

I have an imagination question then for you. So, if you weren't keeping house and teaching yoga, like what is something you have always dreamed of becoming? Like if you weren't this, what would you like to be?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Well, growing up I had no idea that screenwriting was a job. I didn't really realize that was a thing people could be when they grew up, screenwriter. And so, I think I've always harbored a secret ambition to write a movie.

Annmarie Kelly:

You would write such a good movie. This does not need to be a secret ambition. You need to google up Mom's Screenwriting Club. And I would go to that movie sight unseen. You'd have to tell me nothing about it, but I'd be there with popcorn.

Sometimes people have trouble with this, but I am going to ask you any —what do you love about yourself?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

I think my compassion. I am almost relentlessly able to see other people's perspectives and what might make them the way they are. There are very few people on this earth who I think of as just bad.

I had a lovely day yesterday and it was kind of an exception. Things have been less lovely a lot lately. And one of the things that was great was I just had the bandwidth to be helpful to people.

[Music Playing]

Annmarie Kelly:

Does your relentless compassion extend to yourself? Like I do see that you are so able to see the good and the hope and the possibility in people you meet. When you turn inward, do you extend that same compassion to you?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

You know the “I will with God's help” pledges we say and like baptisms and things? I will with therapist’s help.

So, a therapist I went to (gosh, it's been about 20 years now) really changed my perspective. Because she said to me, “You're really hard on yourself. What if some things were just neutral?” And that really, it changed my life. It helped me to see neutrality in shades of gray and helped me to see my own circumstances.

Because at the time, we had just moved — and kids, this was before Google Maps, and I got lost all the time when we moved. And I would get really frustrated, and I was in the car saying out loud, “You're such an idiot.”

And I was recounting this to the therapist and that was when she kind of urged me to look at the circumstances and say, “You'd been to this place how many times?” “Well, once.” “Were you driving there?” “No, I was a passenger.” “Were you paying close attention?” “No.” “So, does it make sense that maybe you got lost?”

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah, I love that. I know we lived in the Seattle area for the same years, and I took the wrong exit in Seattle multiple times, the same wrong exit. Because I would be doing my Jesus Christ made Seattle under protest. I'd be doing my pneumonic, but I'd still goof it up.

And I remember on like the fourth time, took the wrong road again. I was like, ugh! And somewhere along these military moves, I realized that that actually turns out to be the way I learn a place. is by getting lost in it.

I'm going to pivot now and ask you just some smaller quirky things about you. What's one of your go-to songs?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Oh boy, that changes all the time.

Annmarie Kelly:

Right? Me too.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

I mean, I think I very often enjoy musical theater. So, there was a long Hamilton streak in our house. I have a band that I really like that I have a friend who's in the band. So, I should plug that.

Annmarie Kelly:

Definitely. Let's hear about this band.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Everybody should listen to Carbon Leaf. It's a great Virginia-

Annmarie Kelly:

Carbon Leaf.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

It's a great Virginia band.

Annmarie Kelly:

And then what is a favorite movie or television show that you love?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Oh my goodness. Well, I mean, the British Baking Show is my happy place, and has gotten me through a lot of challenging times. And I recently discovered that you can find the whole back catalog on the Roku channel, and you get to see the first season where Paul Hollywood actually like puts his hand in someone's dough and helps.

Annmarie Kelly:

Wow!

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

It's delightful. Welcome to Wrexham because my mother as well, she loved that show.

Annmarie Kelly:

But I totally wondered about you if you knew that story or if your mom's been paying attention.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

My mother has not been paying attention, but we watched it and then yeah, it’s very good.

Annmarie Kelly:

Okay. I have books on here, but I'm going to caution you and I that we're not allowed to talk about books for the next five hours.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Correct.

Annmarie Kelly:

So, let's talk books for as long as they will let us. What are some of your favorites? What's that one that you love that nobody's heard of? What's the one you buy 10 times and always give away? What's the one that's marked in the margins? I don't even have to ask you. Tell me about books.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Well, if I have to choose, there’s two. My palate cleanser: anytime I've read a book and it's good and I'm afraid to start a new book because it won't be as good, is Pride and Prejudice. Because I know I will never be disappointed.

Annmarie Kelly:

It's a truth universally acknowledged.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

And I actually really enjoy reading adaptations of it. And I had someone who I went to college with who wrote an adaptation. So, her name is Soniah Kamal, and her book is called Unmarriageable. And it is a version of Pride and Prejudice set in Pakistan. And it's really a great version. So, I love that.

And then anything Kate Bowler writes, I will read and recommend to a friend.

Annmarie Kelly:

Yeah, I think I heard Kate Bowler speak right before the pandemic. We were actually presenting at the same conference, and I presented right after her, and I was like, “What? What is this fresh help?” I will use a “What fresh moose is this?” That's a nod to Andrew Sean Greer: what fresh moose is this? It's what I would've said.

Like you don't ever want to present after Kate Bowler. You just want to ruminate. Her story's amazing, her interview style is amazing. Her books are just constant companions. If folks listening haven't discovered Kate Bowler, it's time. She is wonderful.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Yeah. She's just a delight.

Annmarie Kelly:

Do you have a favorite ice cream or a favorite dessert?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Well, I like any ice cream that involves coffee and chocolate. The great tragedy is my children don't really particularly like fruit in their baked goods. And I love them desperately, but this is a character flaw.

Because I grew up in the great British tradition of making crumbles, and so peached crumbles, berry crumbles, apple crumbles — and there's only one other person in my house who appreciates them, and that's my husband.

So, I really enjoy a good fruit crumble, and I suppose I can make them and eat them all myself. But-

Annmarie Kelly:

I feel sometimes children grow into their crumble phase, so they crumble in and out. And I feel like sometimes, they just have to like awaken to the crumble within them. So, don't lose heart. It’s possibly that for your kids, the twenties will be their crumble years. So, maybe, there'll be time.

Alright, last one for us here is if we were to take a picture of you really happy and doing something you love, what would we see?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

I love this question. I would say the first kid snuggle of the morning. I have a little pal who just came into this room, and she is a world class snuggler, and when she comes in and nestles in, that makes me very, very happy.

Annmarie Kelly:

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm going to hold the image of you snuggling.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

And then the other one I would say is watching live theater.

Annmarie Kelly:

What did you see yesterday?

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

It was great. It was a one woman show called The 12 Dates of Christmas.

Annmarie Kelly:

Oh my gosh.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

About a woman who her fiancé tells her he can't come home with her for Thanksgiving, and then she's watching the Macy Thanksgiving Day Parade and sees him making out with another woman. And then she recounts the dates she goes on in the year since that moment.

And it involves her telling a story and then pulling off a specific Christmas tree ornament and tossing it into a box. It was fantastic. The actress who was in it was great. So, it was a lot of fun. And there's some adult language, so that's always fun too.

Annmarie Kelly:

Absolutely. A little spicy Christmas. That sounds fantastic.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Yeah.

Annmarie Kelly:

Ah, well, hey, Sarah Frauenzimmer, thank you so much for hanging with me, and for letting me think deeply about this book, The Emotionally Exhausted Woman and some of some of the advice Nancy Colier has, which is just that we are actually in charge of our own days and our own wants, and our own desires, and it's not really up to anybody else to fulfill them for us.

But we have more control and can bring more compassion than we sometimes do. And I just immediately thought of you as someone who I would want to talk to for my own, because I don't remember to connect with people.

Like you are one of those people out there in the world who I just adore, and I see you never, and I talk to you almost never. And that turns out to be within my control. I can like text you or I can see something about Kate Bowler and be like, “Oh my gosh, I love her, and I love you” and just put that out into the universe. And I really appreciated reading this book to be reminded of that.

Sarah Frauenzimmer:

Thank you.

[Music Playing]

Voiceover:

Wild Precious Life is a production of Evergreen Podcasts. Special thanks to executive producers, Gerardo Orlando, and Michael DeAloia; producer, Sarah Willgrube, and audio engineer, Ian Douglas. Be sure to subscribe and follow us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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