"My Antonia" by Willa Cather
| S:9 E:6S9 Ep6
Host: Frank Lavallo
Readers: Katie Porcile and Megan Canty
Author: Willa Cather
Year of Publication: 1918
Plot: "My Antonia" recounts the experiences of now middle aged Jim Burden and his childhood on the plains of Blackhawk, Nebraska. The Shimerdas, a family of Bohemian immigrants, moves in nearby, and their young daughter Antonia and Jim share many trials and tribulations in their childhood on the prairie. With her typical vivid imagery and beautiful depictions of the American landscape, Cather paints a powerful picture of life in the great plains in this classic novel.
Special thanks to our readers, Katie Porcile and Megan Canty, our Producer and Sound Designer Noah Foutz, our Engineer Gray Sienna Longfellow, and our executive producers Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews.
Here's to hoping you find yourself in a novel conversation!
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00:07 Frank Hello, and welcome to
Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm
your host, Frank Lovallo, and for each episode of Novel Conversations, I
talk to two readers about one book, and together, we summarize the
story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what
happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So, if you
love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's
conversation is about the novel, My Antonia, by Willa Cather. And I'm
joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Katie Smith and Megan Canty.
Megan, Katie, welcome.
00:39 Katie Thank you. Thanks so much. Hi, Frank.
00:42 Frank Glad to have you guys both here. Before we get started on our conversation, let me just ask you about the name of our title character. In my head, I've been reading her as Antonia. A woman I know whose education and knowledge of literature I respect learned from her professor, Antonia. Katie, what do you hear when you say it, or how do you say it?
01:01 Katie I've been reading it with a stress right at the front. Antonia.
01:04 Frank Antonia. And then how about you, Megan?
01:06 Megan similar to what your friend reported. I've always said Antonia.
01:10 Frank Antonia. Okay, well, with that out of the way, let me give you a quick summary of My Antonia by Willa Cather. Originally published in 1918, it's the final novel in her Prairie Trilogy, following O Pioneers and The Song of the Lark. However, since the three books don't share any common characters or setting, for me, the designation of a trilogy is a bit questionable, so I don't feel like you have to read the other preceding volumes in order to enjoy this book. My Antonia is set in and around the fictional town of Blackhawk, Nebraska. The story is narrated by Jim Burden, now an attorney, who recalls memories of his boyhood. In particular, his friendship with a girl named Antonia Shemurda. So, Katie, how do we first meet our narrator, Jim Burden?
01:51 Katie As the story begins, Jim has just lost his parents at the age of 10, and he moves from Virginia to Blackhawk, Nebraska, to live with his grandparents on their farm. He is traveling in the company of a farmhand named Jake Marpole, who is slightly older, but who, like Jim, has limited experience of the wider world. On the train out west, he encounters the Chimerida family just arriving from Bohemia, who it turns out will be his new neighbors in Blackhawk.
02:19 Frank Megan, and who are the Šmerdas?
02:21 Megan The Šmerdas are a proud and hardworking family from Bohemia, which is part of today's Czech Republic. Among this Bohemian family, the only one who speaks any English is Antonia. She's a young girl about Jim's age. There's also an older son named Ambroš and a younger sister named Julka.
02:40 Frank And once the train reaches Blackhawk, Jim and Jake disembark, and one of the Burden's hired men, an Otto Fuchs, meets them. Before departing for the Burden farm, though, Jim observes the Shermirdas preparing to set off as well.
02:52 Megan This is where we get our first feel for the distinctive writing style of Willa Cather, as she describes the emptiness of the Nebraska landscape at night using her trademark short sentences and lack of emotion while describing a place.
03:06 Frank Probably my favorite part of her writing is her descriptions of landscapes and the vastness of Nebraska and other places that she's written about. And as you said, this landscape overwhelms Jim as he travels in the jolting wagon. And then over the next couple of days, as Jim settles in, he explores his new surroundings and the landscape around the farm, all magnificently described, as I said, by Willa Cather. And Katie, how did a bird spend their days and evenings?
03:33 Katie While in the evenings, Mrs. Burden prepares the evening meal while Jake talks about Virginia and Otto tells stories of the ponies and the cattles to Jim.
03:43 Megan And they always conclude their evening with some family prayers.
03:46 Frank Jim does settle into this routine, Katie, but the routine changes on Jim's first Sunday in Blackhawk.
03:52 Katie Yes, on Sunday, the Burdens head out to greet their new Bohemian neighbors. Mrs. Burden explains that someone took advantage of the Shmeridas when they decided to move to Blackhawk by overcharging for a farmhouse not suited to the harsh Nebraska winters. Mrs. Shmerida greets the Burdens upon arrival, and Mrs. Burden presents her with some loaves of bread. They exchange greetings, and the adults begin talking.
04:18 Megan And at that point, Jim and Antonia run off to play with her younger sister Yulka trailing behind them, as younger sisters are wont to do. As they wander through the grass, Jim actually teaches Antonia a few English words. And at the conclusion of the evening, when the Burdens are preparing to depart, Mr. Shemerida entreats Mrs. Burden to please teach English to Antonia.
04:42 Katie He does. Jim starts to take long pony rides around the landscape and he brings Antonia with him. And that's when they really begin their first English lessons.
04:52 Megan And Antonia loves to help Mrs. Burden around the house. And that's an opportunity that Jim takes to help continue her lessons.
05:00 Frank And on one of these rides, Antonia takes Jim to visit a pair of Russian immigrants whom her family has befriended, Russian Pavel and Russian Peter. Katie, do you want to tell me about Russian Pavel?
05:09 Katie Sure. Russian Pavel is a tall, gaunt, nervous man. He has been ostracized and forced to leave his native Russia after a frightful incident involving a wolf attack on a wedding party.
05:22 Frank And Megan, Russian Peter?
05:24 Megan Russian Peter is Pavel's housemate. He's a fat, happy man, as he's described. Like Pavel, Peter was also forced into exile from his native Russia following the wolf attack on a wedding party. Peter eventually finds himself severely in debt and sells off his belongings, leaving America for a job as a cook in a Russian labor camp.
05:46 Frank All right, ladies, who wants to tell me about the story of the wolves?
05:50 Megan I would love to. Antonia explains the story to Jim on their ride home. When Pavel and Peter were living in Russia, they attended a winter wedding party between a mutual friend and a girl from a neighboring town. On the ride home from the wedding, a pack of wolves attacked the wedding party in their sledges. Everyone perished, with the exception of Pavel and Peter, who were driving the sledge that carried the newly married couple. In a frantic effort to lighten the sledge's load and increase its speed so they could escape, Pavel had thrown the newly married couple to the wolves. The shame of this incident drove Pavel and Peter from their hometown and later from Russia. The memory of the horror of that evening plagues both Pavel and Peter. And the story of their background gives us another view of immigrant life different from Antonia's family and demonstrates a real fierce will to survive no matter what the circumstances.
06:48 Frank That was quite a story as written by Willa Cather.
06:51 Katie I thought it was just so chaotic and there were, there were how many, like 11 coaches at first and some fell behind and then.
06:58 Megan Oh yeah, that story always stuck with me. I remember that being one of the first parts, the first time I read the novel where like, where you see that. It's like, you know, you see Antonia's family and everybody is, you know. pretty positive and stuff, and then you see this very different perspective.
07:11 Frank Well, and you also, you know, when you think it can't be any worse than what the Samaritans are going through, it is. There's another set of people, or family, right, that went through even worse, right?
07:22 Katie Yeah.
07:22 Frank But on this visit to the Russians, only Peter's at home, and he shows Antonia and Jim his milking cow and feeds them a snack of melons. He then entertains them by playing a number of tunes on his harmonica. As Antonia and Jim leave, Peter presents Antonia with a sack of cucumbers for her mother, along with a pail of milk to cook them in. As you can imagine, Nebraska has plenty of its own wildlife. Maybe not wolves. Megan?
07:45 Megan Yes, maybe not wolves, but quite a lot of wildlife, and not all of it friendly. One day, Antonia and Jim ride Jim's pony to Peter's house to borrow a spade for Ambrose, her older brother. On the way home, they stop to examine a group of prairie dog holes. But suddenly, Antonia spots an enormous snake and lets out a scream, which causes the snake to react by coiling in their direction. She points at the snake and shouts at Jim in her native Bohemian. Jim turns around and sees the huge snake and swiftly gathers his wits and uses the spade to bludgeon the snake several times to kill it.
08:23 Katie But Jim gets angry at Antonia for not warning him in English about the presence of the snake, but her admiration for his bravery quickly wins him over. They resolve to bring the dead snake home to show off Jim's victory. The size of the snake impressed everyone, including Jim's elders, and Antonia derives great pleasure from relating the story to all interested listeners.
08:46 Frank And Katie, it's about this time in the story that Willa Cather gives us a bit of a foreshadowing. At least that's how I read it.
08:52 Katie On another one of their rides in late fall, near sunset, Antonia and Jim encounter Mr. Shemerida, who has recently caught three rabbits. His bounty will provide food for the family and a winter hat for Antonia. Jim notes that Mr. Shemerida seems sad, which leaves a deep impression on him. As daylight wanes, the Shemeridas return to their farm and Jim races his shadow home.
09:18 Frank I think that's a great line. Jim races his shadow home.
09:20 Katie Me too. I love that.
09:22 Frank But with winter approaching, things are not going very well for the Russians.
09:26 Katie Peter and Pavel have fallen upon hard times. Peter finds himself deeply in debt to a Black Hawk money lender named Wick Cutter, and Pavel seriously injures himself in a fall. When Peter arrives at the Burdens to ask the Shmeridas, who were visiting, for help, Jim decides to accompany Antonia and her father to the Russians' farm.
09:47 Megan When they arrive, it's after nightfall, and they find Pavel lying incapacitated. Frantic preoccupation with the wolves punctuates his illness. The memory of the horror of that evening plagues both Pavel and Peter, and Pavel dies mere days after Antonia and Jim's visit. And with Pavel gone, Peter sells everything he owns and leaves America, and Mr. Shmerda thus quickly loses two of the only friends he had made in the country. And we get a window into just how harsh immigrant life on the prairie really was.
10:22 Frank But Megan, it's not just the harshness of life on the prairie. Once some of these immigrants get to the prairie, there are men preying on them as well as some of these wild animals that we've already mentioned, like wickcutter.
10:35 Katie Peter didn't sell everything. He ate all his melons before he left.
10:39 Frank That's right. That's right. He sat down, surrounded by them, and ate every single one of them. You're right, Katie. You know what? Let's stop here and take a break. And when we come back, we'll talk about winter in Nebraska and continue our conversation. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right, Megan, Katie, when we left, winter had come to Blackhawk, and with changes in the weather would come changes for our characters.
11:10 Katie It will. At the first snowfall, Otto Fuchs builds a sleigh for Jim to drive. After a test run, Jim sets out to give Antonia and Jolke a ride. The girls are unprepared for the cold weather. I think they're both wearing cotton dresses, and Jim gives them some of his clothing to help keep them warm. As a result, he himself is vulnerable to the cold and ends up bedridden for two weeks with Quincy, a severe tonsil disease.
11:35 Megan Jim's next encounter with Antonia occurs when Mrs. Burden decides to bring a gift to the Shmeridas. She brings a rooster and foodstuffs. However, when Mrs. Shmerida answers the Burden's call, we find her in tears.
11:50 Frank That's right. The Shmeridas have very little food stored up for the winter, and much of what they do have is now rotting. When Jake brings in the gift basket of food, Mrs. Shmerida only cries harder.
11:59 Katie Mr. Shemerida explains that they were not beggars in Bohemia, but that several unexpected turns in America have left them with very little money.
12:08 Frank And with winter, Christmas comes to the prairie.
12:11 Katie During the week before Christmas, with Jake preparing to go into town to do the Burden's Christmas shopping, a heavy snow begins to fall. Mr. Burden decides that the roads are unfit for travel, and the family sets about to instead make homemade Christmas presents instead of going to town. Jim makes a pair of picture books for Antonia and Jolke, and Mrs. Burden bakes gingerbread cookies. After delivering an offering to the Shmeridas, Jake brings back a small cedar tree, which the Burdens decorate for Christmas.
12:41 Frank But Megan, the winter doesn't only bring Christmas.
12:44 Megan No, on the second morning of the blizzard, Jim awakes to a great commotion. When he arrives in the kitchen, he is told by his grandfather that Mr. Shmerida has died. With Ambrose Shmerida curled up on a nearby bench, the Burdens quietly discuss his apparent suicide while they eat breakfast.
13:01 Katie And after the meal, Otto sets out to summon the priest and the coroner from Blackhawk, and the others clear the room for the trip to the Schmerida's. Jim stays behind, and he finds himself alone. After completing the chores, he settles down to contemplate Mr. Schmerida's death.
13:17 Megan The next day, Otto returns from Blackhawk with a young bohemian named Anton Jelinek. At dinner, Jelinek bemoans the fact that they have been unable to find any priest who is willing to put Mr. Shmerda to rest.
13:32 Katie The postmaster alerts the Burdens that none of the graveyards in the area will accept Mr. Shmerda because he has killed himself. And Mrs. Burden lashes out in bitterness at this unfairness. With no graveyard to turn to, the Shmerdas decide that they will bury Mr. Shmerda in the corner of their homestead. There's something important about it had to be at a crossroads.
13:53 Frank And so after lying dead in the barn for four days, Mr. Shmerda is finally buried on his own land.
13:59 Katie Here's a quote from the book. Grandfather asked Jelinek whether, in the old country, there was some superstition to the effect that a suicide must be buried at the crossroads. Jelinek said he didn't know. He seemed to remember hearing there had once been such a custom in Bohemia. Mrs. Shemerida has made up her mind, he added. I try to persuade her and say it looks bad for her to all the neighbors, but she say so it must be.
14:23 Frank Rural neighbors come from miles around to attend the burial, and at Mrs. Shmurda's request, Mr. Burden says a prayer in English for Mr. Shmurda, and afterward Otto leads the assembled group in a hymn. And the spring will bring even more changes.
14:36 Megan It does. With the coming of spring, the neighbors come together and help the Shmeridas build a new log house on their property. And they eventually acquire a new windmill as well as some livestock. So things are finally beginning to improve for them. One day after giving English lessons to Yulka, Jim asks Antonia if she'd like to attend the upcoming term at the schoolhouse as well.
15:00 Katie But Antonia refuses proudly, saying that she is kept too busy by her farm work. But her tears of sorrow reveal her true feelings on the matter.
15:09 Megan And once school does start, Jim sees less and less of Antonia, and soon tension erupts between the families as well.
15:17 Frank Yeah, there's some dispute over a horse collar that Jim had loaned to Ambrose Schmierda, and they end up fighting over it. And for the next few weeks, the Schmierdas are proud and aloof whenever they meet the Burdens in passing, although they maintain their respect for Mr. Burden.
15:32 Katie And finally, Mr. Burden arranges a reconciliation by hiring Ambrose to help him with his wheat threshing and offering Antonia a job to help Mrs. Burden in the kitchen. In addition, he forgives Mrs. Schmerida her debt on the milk cow she bought from him. In an effort to show her own forgiveness, Mrs. Schmerida knits Jake a pair of socks.
15:53 Frank But even bigger changes are in store for both the Burdens and the Schmeridas. Megan?
15:58 Megan Absolutely. Almost three years after his move to Blackhawk, Jim and his grandparents decide to leave their farm in the countryside for a house on the outskirts of town. Finding himself out of work, Otto decides to head out west in search of adventure, and Jake decides to go with him. Before leaving, they help the Burdens move their household. But one Sunday morning, Otto and Jake set off on a train and never see Jim again.
16:24 Frank That was kind of a sad moment in the story as I was reading it. I mean, they weren't best friends, but they had come to respect each other, and Jim certainly learned a lot from these two guys.
16:35 Katie Yeah. And Jim begins attending the school in town, and he quickly adjusts to the company of his new classmates. Jim questions Ambrose for any news about Antonia whenever Ambrose comes to town, but Ambrose is a little cagey with his information.
16:51 Frank Well, Megan, what about Antonia?
16:53 Megan Things are changing for her as well. The Burdens' nearest neighbors are the Harlings, a Norwegian family who also used to live on a farm. Three of the Harlings' children are close to Jim's age, and their older sister Frances works in Mr. Harlings' office. In August, the Harlings' cook leaves them, and Mrs. Burden convinces them to hire Antonia in her place.
17:16 Katie And with her warm personality and easy way, Antonia is right at home among all the Harlings, and she soon settles into a regular routine.
17:24 Frank And once she's in a routine, we quickly meet some new characters, Lena Lingard and the Vani family. Megan, do you want to tell me about Lena Lingard?
17:33 Megan Sure. Lena is a local farm girl who has come to announce that she's also found work in town as a dressmaker. She and Jim become friendly and over time close and then even closer.
17:46 Frank And Katie, the Vanni family?
17:48 Katie The Vonnies are an Italian family who arrive in town with a dancing pavilion and begin giving dancing lessons. The pavilion quickly becomes a center of town life, especially on Saturday nights when the dancing carries on until midnight.
18:06 Frank And it's with the advent of this dancing hall and this dancing till midnight that we get a discussion from Jim about the social mores in Black Hawk. Megan, you want to tell us a little bit about what Jim thinks?
18:17 Megan Yeah, and this is an interesting part because we've been observing how the social structures work, but no one's really come out and said it directly until Jim tells us a little bit more about it in this section.
18:29 Frank That's a good point.
18:30 Megan Jim claims that all of the socially respectable boys are secretly attracted to the country girls who came to Black Hawk as hired girls. But because of the town's extremely rigid social hierarchy, none of those town boys feels comfortable actually dating one of these hired girls. For his part, Jim finds the hired girls more interesting and worthwhile than the townsfolk, and begins to spend time with them, receiving general disapproval from the community.
19:00 Frank And Megan, these troublesome girls, they include Lena and Antonia, don't they?
19:04 Megan Yes, they do. Over time, Antonia begins to be noticed more and more at the pavilion, and thoughts of dancing soon start to preoccupy her waking hours. Trouble starts after a boy who is engaged attempts to kiss Antonia on the Harlings' back porch. Although Antonia manages to fight him off, Mr. Harling presents her with an ultimatum. She has to quit dancing or she had better look for work elsewhere.
19:33 Katie The ever indignant Antonia decides to take her chances on her own and announces her plan to find work with Wick Cutter, the local money lender. Distraught, Mrs. Harling tells Antonia that she cannot speak to her if she works for the Cutters. Antonia insists on keeping her independence and she leaves the Harlings.
19:53 Frank And Jim describes the Cutters as a detestable Blackhawk couple, generally loathed by the populace. Wick Cutter is a devious moneylender who makes his money by manipulating farmers like the Shmiritas and the Russians into accepting unwise loans, and Mrs. Cutter is a hideous shrew. The Cutters do not even get along with each other, and their epic arguments are legendary throughout the town. Megan, how do things work out for Antonia?
20:17 Megan Once she's set up at the Cutters, Antonia spends even more time and energy on her new social life. She begins to sew her own outfits and parades around town with Lena and several of the other hired girls. Now a senior in high school, Jim sometimes travels around with them. But when Jim's reputation is brought into question, he's forced to look elsewhere for diversion. But he quickly finds that very few diversions are to be found in Black Hawk. There's not a lot of options.
20:47 Katie And, eager to find an alternative, Jim resolves to attend the Saturday night dances at the Fireman's Hall, sneaking out of the house after his grandparents have fallen asleep. One evening, after a night of dancing, Jim walks Antonia back to the Cutters. When he asks for a kiss and goes a little farther than Antonia expects, she scolds him for his brazenness. Jim, pleased at her show of virtue, walks home with his heart full of her.
21:14 Frank All right, a short time later, though, Jim notices that his grandmother's been crying. Apparently, she's learned of his secret journeys to the fireman's hall dances, and she's ashamed of his deceitfulness. In an attempt to atone for his actions, Jim swears off the dances, but he finds himself lonely again as a result. Finally, at his high school commencement, Jim gives an oration that the crowd receives wonderfully. Afterward, Antonia breathlessly congratulates him and is moved to tears when he declares that he dedicated the oration to her father.
21:43 Megan And Jim is thrilled with his success. I think that it opens up the idea that there are more opportunities out in the world for him after feeling so stifled. And he begins to think about life beyond the prairie. So during the summer, he commits himself to a rigorous study schedule in preparation for his upcoming university studies.
22:05 Frank Books, books, and then more books. But what about Antonia?
22:09 Katie Antonia continues to work for the Cutters, and in late August, they leave town and leave her alone to house-sit. When they're gone, Antonia has an uneasy feeling about spending the nights by herself. Wick Cutter had put all of the valuables under her bed and talked to her about it in a very weird way. So Jim agrees to sleep there in her stead and comes back to the Burdens each morning for breakfast.
22:35 Megan But on his third night in the home, he is wakened in the night by a noise. He quickly falls back asleep, but a short while later, he wakes up to the noise of someone in the same room as him. And he finds himself face-to-face with Cutter, who was expecting to find Antonia in the room. It turned out Cutter had used that trip as an elaborate scheme to abandon his wife and planned to either seduce or rape Antonia.
23:02 Frank A scuffle ensues, and Jim manages to escape Cutter by leaping out of the window and running through the dark town in his nightshirt. He eventually makes his way home, only to find that he has suffered several severe bruises and some cuts.
23:14 Katie Jim holes up in his room to recover, and Mrs. Burden accompanies Antonia to the Cutters to pack her trunk. They find the house in utter disarray, and, as they're gathering up the torn garments, Mrs. Cutter arrives at the front door. After doing her best to calm Mrs. Cutter down, Mrs. Burden listens in amazement as Mrs. Cutter relates the elaborate ruse that her husband concocted. He put her on the wrong train while he slipped back to Blackhawk in his failed scheme to have his way with Antonia.
23:46 Frank Let's take a break here, and when we come back, we'll continue our story. Events start to move a bit quicker in the following chapters. We'll be right back. And we're back. All right, ladies, when we took our break, I said events move a bit quickly in these next chapters. Jim goes to the university in Lincoln, where he meets Gaston Cleric, a fellow student, and more importantly to Jim, Lena Lingard pays him a visit. Megan, what is Lena doing in Lincoln, Nebraska?
24:18 Megan Lina is someone who's always wanted a bigger life, a life beyond the simple prairie life that she grew up with. And when Jim meets up with her, she tells him she's set up in Lincoln as a dressmaker. And she describes all the details of her business affairs and is obviously very excited at this new venture in her life.
24:36 Frank Well, Megan, I'm sure he asks her about Antonia.
24:39 Megan He does, and Lena explains that Antonia has begun working with Mrs. Gardner at the hotel and is also engaged to a Larry Donovan.
24:50 Frank Huh. Katie, how does Jim take that news?
24:52 Katie Well, he greets this news with a mixture of pleasure and dismay, and he mentions an urge to go home and take care of her. But Lena changes the subject to the theater, and Jim asks if she would like to get together for a theater outing in the near future. Lena agrees to this proposal and departs as quickly as she came in.
25:12 Frank I'm sure she wanted to change that subject. She leaves Jim among his books in the solitude of his study, but they do start a relationship.
25:20 Katie They do. Throughout the spring, Jim and Lena attend a series of plays together. In addition to spending time with Lena at the theater, Jim visits her regularly at her dressmaking shop and takes Sunday breakfasts with her at her apartment. And as the weeks wear on, Jim becomes less interested in his classes and spends more and more time hanging out with Lena and her circle.
25:42 Frank But not really for long.
25:44 Megan No. Near the end of the academic turn, his friend Gaston Clarique informs him that he has accepted an instructorship at Harvard College and actually wants Jim to accompany him east. After receiving his grandfather's blessing, Jim decides to leave Lincoln and visits Lena to tell her of his decision.
26:04 Frank And Katie, how does Lena take that news?
26:07 Katie Well, while she was sad to hear the news, she makes no attempt to hold him back. When the term ends, Jim returns home to be with his grandparents for a few weeks. He then makes a visit to his relatives in Virginia before joining Cleric in Boston.
26:21 Frank And events continue to move along.
26:23 Megan They do. Jim completes his academic program at Harvard in just two years, and he then returns to Blackhawk for a summer vacation before beginning law school.
26:34 Frank And as readers, we finally get caught up with Antonia. Her life has taken some turns as well. Katie, will you start Antonia's story?
26:41 Katie Sure. Jim knows that Larry Donovan never married Antonia and that he left her with a child. Jim thinks bitterly of Antonia's lot, lamenting her misfortune. He hates to think that anyone sees her with an eye of pity. And now he learns her full story. Megan?
26:59 Megan Jim learns that Larry Donovan took a job as a train conductor and moved to Denver. Antonia was initially discouraged, but she quickly placed her doubts behind her. When the time to depart came, Ambrose helped Antonia pack up and drove her into Black Hawk to board the night train for Denver.
27:17 Katie And after receiving a couple of initial communications from Denver confirming Antonia's safe arrival, the Shmeridas heard nothing from her for several weeks. Then, suddenly, she reappeared at home one day, unmarried and devastated by Donovan's desertion of her. Apparently, he ran off to Mexico to seek some fortune.
27:37 Frank In that winter, she had a child, to the surprise of her family, who had not observed her pregnancy because of the loose and bulky clothing that she had taken to wearing.
27:45 Megan Antonia's baby is nearly two years old now and is very healthy and strong.
27:50 Frank Well, do Jim and Antonia finally meet again?
27:53 Katie They do. The next afternoon, Jim walks over to the Shmeridas. After Yolka shows him Antonia's baby, he walks out to the field to speak to Antonia. They meet, clasp hands, and walk together to the site of Mr. Shmerida's grave. Jim tells her his plan for law school and of his life in the East. Antonia tells him of her resolution to bring her daughter up into the world.
28:17 Frank I think we all know how this is going to end, don't we, Megan?
28:21 Megan At the edge of the field, Antonia and Jim part ways, but Jim promises her that he will return, and Antonia, in exchange, promises that she will remember him always. And after this beautiful conversation that they have, Jim walks back to his old farmhouse alone at dark and has the sense of two young children running along beside him.
28:45 Frank You know, another one of those great Willa Cather lines, the way mentioned earlier that Jim runs, tries to run with his shadow and now he feels that he's got these two young children, clearly Jim and Antonia, running beside him. Guys, I gotta admit, I thought he was gonna stay and I thought they were gonna get married. But let's take a final break now and then head into our last segment. We'll finish our story and then we can all share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right, Katie, Megan, before our break, Jim and Antonia had met, talked, and then frankly, to my surprise at least, went their own ways. Now time really moves in these final chapters.
29:32 Katie It sure does. All of a sudden, it's 20 years later, and Jim is a lawyer in New York, heading home from a business trip out West. He decides to stop in Blackhawk to see Antonia, of whom he has heard almost nothing in the intervening period, except that she has married a fellow bohemian named Anton Cusack and is raising a large family.
29:54 Megan When Jim's buggy arrives at the Cusack farm, Jim is led up to the house by two young boys, and then he's welcomed into the kitchen by two older girls. As he's preparing to sit down, Antonia enters the room, but initially she fails to recognize him. When she does, though, she is overcome with a rush of emotion and calls out to gather her children around her. Introductions are made among everyone, and Antonia and Jim sit down in the kitchen to discuss old times and new times.
30:27 Frank Apparently Antonia's husband, Anton Kuzak, is away overnight shopping in town.
30:31 Katie After spending the day touring the farm and the orchards, Antonia invites Jim to stay the night with them. Jim expresses his wish to sleep in the hamo with her sons, and Antonia goes off to prepare supper while Jim heads out to milk the cows with the boys.
30:47 Frank And after supper, there's a lot of talk and a lot of reminiscing, and then Antonia brings out a box of photographs and tells stories until about 11 o'clock, when Jim and the boys retire to the barn. The boys' giggles quickly give way to slumber, but Jim lays awake late into the night thinking of Antonia.
31:03 Megan And the next afternoon, Kuzek returns with his oldest son and introduces him to Jim. As Antonio serves a supper of geese and apples, the talk turns to Blackhawk and eventually to the story of the violent murder-suicide involving Wick Cutter and his wife.
31:19 Katie After the meal, Cusack and Jim take a walk into the orchard, and Cusack recounts for Jim the details of his early life. Confessing a loneliness for his old haunt in Bohemia and Vienna, Cusack explains that the warmth of Antonia's love and the energy of his large family has kept him free from despair.
31:38 Frank In the following day, after dinner, Jim leaves the Cusacks. In Black Hawk, Jim is disappointed by the unfamiliar town. It's really changed since he was there as a boy. Toward evening, though, Jim walks out beyond the outskirts of town and finds himself at home again. In his wanderings, he comes upon the first bit of the old road that leads out to the country farms. Although the track has largely been plowed under, Jim easily recognizes the way. He sits down by the overgrowth and watches the haystacks glowing in the evening sun. And so ends our novel, My Antonia by Willa Cather, appropriately with a final beautiful description of the landscape as Jim sees it that evening watching the haystacks. All right, Katie, Megan, now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or perhaps a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Katie, do you have something for us?
32:28 Katie I do. We've touched on Willa Cather's beautiful writing style already. And I think one thing in particular that she does is she'll just, half a sentence will be just this beautiful image wrapped up almost in a package for you. But one thing thing that I thought about while reading this is the whole book is about my Antonia, but we don't really get a lot of descriptions of her and who she is as a person. But one of my favorite parts of the entire book is describing her and comparing her to Mrs. Harling. So I wanted to read that paragraph.
33:02 Frank Please. Do you have those lines?
33:04 Katie There was a basic harmony between Antonia and her mistress. They had strong, independent natures, both of them. They knew what they liked and were not always trying to imitate other people. They loved children and animals and music and rough play and digging in the earth. They liked to prepare rich, hearty food and to see people eat it, to make up soft white beds and to see youngsters asleep in them. They ridiculed conceited people and were quick to help unfortunate ones. Deep down in each of them, there was a kind of hearty joviality, a relish for life, not over-delicate, but very invigorating. I never tried to define it, but I was distinctly conscious of it. I could not imagine Antonia's living for a week in any other house in Blackhawk than the Harlings.
33:49 Frank Those are some good lines. Thanks for sharing those. Megan, do you have something for us?
33:53 Megan Yeah, the most beautiful aspect of the novel to me or the most poignant aspect is the fact that Jim so values clinging to his memories of childhood and to those experiences. And he seems to have a fear of sullying those or disturbing them with the reality of the present or of being an adult. And I think that near the end, there's a beautiful passage where he comes to understand the value of the present and that there isn't anything lost by having relationships evolve and by evolving yourself. He says, Antonia had always been one to leave images in the mind that did not fade, that grew stronger with time. In my memory, there was a succession of such pictures, fixed there like the old woodcuts of one's first primer. She lent herself to immemorial human attitudes which we recognize by instinct as universal and true. She was a battered woman now, not a lovely girl, but she still had that something which fires the imagination, could still stop one's breath for a moment by a look or a gesture. All the strong things of her heart came out in her body that had been so tireless in serving generous emotions.
35:08 Frank Some beautiful writing by Willa Cather. I don't have any particular lines that I want to read. I do want to piggyback on a couple of things, though, that Katie mentioned. Again, I've mentioned it before. We've all mentioned it before. The writing about the landscapes and the weather as it approaches and comes through the prairie, just the way Willa writes about the environment. and what people are seeing, I just find fascinating. And I find that fascinating in all of her novels. I'm particularly familiar with her book, Death Comes for the Archbishop, written in the Southwest of our country. As a matter of fact, we recorded that novel in season eight, Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather. She has some amazing ways of describing the environment as she sees it, whether it's the prairies of Nebraska or the deserts of the Southwest, I just would recommend to all of you to just read some of her writings.
36:00 Megan I think that there are a lot of writers even today who may not even realize the influence that she had on them. You know, she was really one of the first writers where landscape or a particular place is almost another character in the story with the importance that she attributes to it.
36:17 Frank That's a great point. I wish I had said it. She turns the landscape into one of her characters. A great point. And then Katie, I also want to come back to you with, as you said, we don't get a lot about Antonia herself, but throughout the book, I came to really like and respect Jim Burden. And if Jim Burden sees something in Antonia, he may not have to describe it to us, but I'll take his word for it. I do trust Jim. I trust his visions. I trust his thoughts. So, I see Antonia through his eyes. And for me, that was sufficient in this novel.
36:55 Katie I like the way you said that. Yeah.
36:57 Frank All right, guys, with those last comments, I'd like to end our conversation about My Antonia by Willa Cather. Meg and Katie, I do want to thank both of you for coming in and having this conversation with me today. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
37:09 Megan Always, Frank. Yeah. A fantastic, fantastic conversation about a fantastic novel.
37:14 Frank I hope to have a conversation with both of you again very, very soon. I'm Frank Lovallo, and you've been listening to Novel Conversations. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversations. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. I want to give special thanks to our readers today, Katie Portile and Megan Canty. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Fouts, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Bridget Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lovallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.
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