00:07 Frank: Hello, and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. And for each episode of Novel Conversations, I talk to two readers about one book. And together, we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's conversation is about the novel The End of the Affair by Graham Greene. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Megan Canty. Elizabeth, Megan, welcome.
00:40 Elizabeth: Thank you, Frank.

00:41 Megan: Great to be here. Thanks.

00:43 Frank: Glad to have you here. Before we get started, let me give a quick introduction to today's novel, The End of the Affair by Graham Greene. Published in 1951, The End of the Affair is set in London during and just after World War II. The novel examines the obsessions, jealousy, and discernments within the relationships between our three central characters, the writer Maurice Bendrix, Sarah Miles, and her husband, civil servant Henry Miles. Graham Greene's evocative analysis of the love of self, the love of another, and the love of God is an English classic that has been translated for the stage, the screen, and even the opera house. Readers, our novel starts with a narrator. He wants to tell us a story, but he gives us such disclaimers I'm not sure we can trust him. And we should also mention that the narrator of the story often shifts from the present time, about 1946, to a time in his past, 1939 through World War II.

01:37 Elizabeth: The narrator states that a story has no beginning or end, but that we arbitrarily choose a moment from which to look back or from which to look ahead. The narrator wonders if he really has chosen the moment from which to begin this story, or if that moment chose him.

01:52 Megan: The narrator also notes that if he had believed then in a god, then he might have believed that it was God who prompted him to go talk to Henry Miles. The narrator says he did this even though he hated Henry, and even though Henry would soon start hating him as well.

02:09 Frank: In fact, the narrator notes that this is a record of hate far more than of love, and assures the audience that if he writes one good thing about Henry Miles or his wife Sarah, then it is proof of his trustworthiness. Well, Elizabeth, who is this narrator?

02:23 Elizabeth: Maurice Bendrix is the narrator and the protagonist of The End of the Affair and Sarah Miles' former lover. Sarah calls him Maurice, but everyone else calls him Bendrix. He's an unmarried writer.

02:35 Megan: Bendrix says that it was strange to see Henry out that night because it was so rainy and Henry loved to be comfortable. Bendrix, on the other hand, prefers discomfort, and so he had chosen to walk out in the rain to go to a nearby bar for a drink. That's when he spots Henry standing alone in the rain. Instead of avoiding him and walking by unnoticed, Bendrix calls out to Henry, who affectionately returns the greeting.

02:59 Elizabeth: Bendrix asks about Sarah simply because it might have seemed odd if he hadn't. Although he also notes that nothing would have pleased him more than to learn that she was sick, unhappy, or dying because it would lighten his mind.

03:13 Megan: And Henry tells Bendrix that Sarah is out somewhere, which reminds Bendrix of a time when other people might have asked Henry where Sarah was, and only he, Bendrix, would have truly known where she was. Bendrix invites Henry out for a drink and is somewhat surprised when Henry agrees, because they've never had a drink together outside of Henry's home.

03:33 Frank: And Henry notes that it's been a long time since he or Sarah had seen Bendrix, to which Bendrix replies that the last time they saw each other was in June of 1944, over a year ago. While they're talking, Bendrix thinks to himself, what a fool Henry is for not seeing anything odd in the fact that they haven't seen each other in over a year, even though they live in the same square.

03:54 Elizabeth: Bendrix calls this failure to see anything suspicious Henry's blinkers. And he notes that he, Bendrix, quote, hated his blinkers, even when I had benefited from them, knowing that others could benefit too, end quote.

04:07 Megan: While they sit at the bar together, Bendrix thinks to himself that he would never even have tried to get to know Henry or Sarah if in 1939 he hadn't started writing a book about a civil servant. Bendrix remembers that he first started seeing Sarah to ask her questions about Henry's lifestyle, and these questions are what led to their friendship.

04:28 Frank: Good way to say that.

04:29 Elizabeth: Henry was an assistant secretary in the Ministry of Pensions, and eventually Bendrix told Sarah that he was only interested in Henry as a copy for a ridiculous comic character in his book. Bendrix notes that this is when Sarah, who was always loyal to Henry, began to hate his book and would cry whenever Bendrix would ask her questions about Henry.

04:50 Megan: After Bendrix and Henry exchange pleasantries about the past Christmas and Sarah's health, Henry offers to go get them each another rum, and Bendrix runs to the restroom. In the restroom, Bendrix sees some crude graffiti about the landlord's wife, and when he returns to his seat, he tells Henry about it. Henry notes that, quote, jealousy's an awful thing, end quote. Bendrix is confused and asks Henry what he means, so Henry tells him, when you're miserable, you envy other people's happiness.

05:19 Elizabeth: Bendrix asks Henry if he is miserable and Henry responds that he is worried. Bendrix encourages Henry to explain what he means and privately wonders if it's the rum that's prompting Henry to open up or if he has some idea of how much Bendrix knows about him and his relationship with Sarah. Henry tells him that he's worried about Sarah. Henry tells Bendrix they should go back to his house to talk some more.

05:43 Megan: Once home, Henry calls out to see if Sarah is back yet. There's no answer, so Henry invites Bendrix into his study to talk. In his office, Henry offers Bendrix a whiskey, and Bendrix, noting how red Henry's eyes are, wonders if Henry is drinking too much, and asks him what's wrong. Henry answers, Sarah.

06:02 Elizabeth: Bendrix asks Henry what exactly it is that he's worried about, and Henry shows him a letter. Bendrix, worried it might be one he wrote to Sarah, takes it and reads it. The letter contains a response to a request for information about a discreet private detective.

06:19 Megan: Bendrix tells Henry that he doesn't understand, so Henry tells him that he had made the request but hasn't done anything. Henry also implies that he can trust Sarah not to read the letter, which he keeps out in the open, but that there's something he can't trust her not to do or be doing.

06:36 Frank: Henry asks Bendrix what he should do and Bendrix tells him to either burn the letter or go see the private detective, Mr. Savage. Henry, however, swears he can't do either thing. Burning the letter is impossible and he can't go to Mr. Savage because it will make him look ridiculous. At this, Bendrix gives in to his desire to tease Henry and offers to go see Mr. Savage himself.

06:57 Elizabeth: Henry is surprised but grateful for Bendrix's offer, but ultimately tells him the idea is too far-fetched and can't be done. He burns the letter, telling Bendrix to forget it.

07:07 Megan: Just then, Bendrix and Henry hear someone come in. Henry goes to the door and automatically his face falls into absurd lines of gentleness and affection as he calls to Sarah. Sarah walks over to them and says she's been walking. Bendrix observes how bad the weather is while Henry notes that Sarah is soaking wet and will catch her death of cold.

07:27 Elizabeth: Over the next few days, Bendrix keeps vigil outside of Henry and Sarah's house, hoping to see Sarah come out. Bendrix notices that Henry never walks across the common anymore and wonders if he's embarrassed about having openly admitted his suspicions of Sarah's behavior. When he's not keeping vigil, Bendrix tries to write his next novel, but he has trouble getting the characters to come alive. Finally, Bendrix decides to get in contact with Mr. Savage, the detective.

07:54 Megan: At Mr. Savage's office, Bendrix asks Mr. Savage what the charges are for watching. Mr. Savage tells Bendrix not to worry about that, and that if he wants, Bendrix can leave the office right then without being charged three guineas for a preliminary consultation. Before he begins sharing details, Bendrix notes that he's aware that Mr. Savage probably already knows what he's going to say, since this case is no different than the dozens of others Mr. Savage has been hired to take care of already that year.

08:23 Elizabeth: Mr. Savage guesses that Bendrix is talking about his wife. Bendrix tells him that he's there about a friend's wife. Mr. Savage asks him if he and the lady are intimate and is surprised when Bendrix reveals that he's only seen her once since 1944. When Mr. Savage expresses confusion, Bendrix asks, can't one love or hate as long as that? Bendrix also assures Mr. Savage that he is just a jealous person like Mr. Savage's other clients. Mr. Savage assures him that jealousy is actually the mark of a true love.

08:58 Megan: Bendrix tells Mr. Savage that there's reason to believe that Mrs. Miles, that is, Sarah, is deceiving her husband because she's lying about her whereabouts and keeping secrets. Bendrix agrees to receiving weekly reports, either in person or on the phone, With Mr. Savage's promise, the investigation will be discreet. Bendrix reflects that Mr. Savage's job, the detection of the innocent, is not a respectable trade, and that lovers are usually innocent because they don't believe they're doing anything wrong.

09:29 Elizabeth: Bendrix reflects on the similarities between his profession as a novelist and Mr. Savage's, including the fact that they both gather potentially meaningless details as part of the process of creating a finished product. Bendrix says he noticed Sarah because she was happy, unlike so many people in the summer of 1939. Furthermore, she was beautiful and engaging, and had told him that she'd read his books without making a fuss over his career.

09:54 Frank: However, Bendrix says he didn't think he'd fall in love with her because she was beautiful, and beautiful women made him feel inferior. According to Bendrix, he has a hard time feeling sexual desire for a woman without feeling either mentally or physically superior to her.

10:09 Megan: Bendrix writes that he would have preferred not to think about these past events because writing about them seems to bring all of his hatred back. Bendrix observes that hatred seems to operate the same glands as love, and both result in many of the same actions.

10:23 Elizabeth: Bendrix returns home from Mr. Savage's and his landlady tells him that Mrs. Miles called while he was out. For a moment, Bendrix is excited and hopes that seeing him the other day had, quote, woken not love, of course, but a sentiment, a memory which he might work on, end quote. Bendrix believes that if he could have Sarah once more, then he might be able to get her out of his system and move on.

10:47 Megan: Bendrix dials Sarah's phone number, which he must look up because he no longer has it memorized, only to find that the number he has is no longer her phone number. Before he can dial inquiries to get the number, Sarah calls Bendrix again and he answers the phone.

11:03 Elizabeth: Sarah asks Bendrix if he got the message she left with his landlady, and Bendrix tells her he was going to call her once he finished writing an article. Sarah tells Bendrix she wants to have lunch with him the next day, but Bendrix tells her that he can't because he must finish writing his article. Sarah suggests they meet Wednesday, but Bendrix tells her Thursday is better. Sarah agrees, and Bendrix notes that he can almost imagine disappointment in her voice, but also that, quote, Our pride deceives us."

11:35 Megan: Sarah and Bendrix agree to meet at a nearby cafe. Immediately, Bendrix looks at hate as if it were an ugly and foolish man whom one did not want to know, and calls Sarah back to tell her that he actually can meet her tomorrow. After hanging up again, Bendrix realizes that this is what hope feels like.

11:54 Frank: Bendrix sits at the cafe table re-reading the same page of the newspaper and refuses to look up at the door, which would of course betray a foolish expectation. But of course, Bendrix says that it's his bad luck that Sarah comes in and sees him just as he's looking at his watch. Sarah apologizes and explains that the bus she took got caught in traffic. When he suggests the train would have been faster, she says that she was in no hurry to get there fast. Readers, let's take a quick break here before we actually get to the meeting of Sarah and Bendrix. Right now, you're listening to Novel Conversations. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right, readers, before we took our break, Sarah and Bendrix were about to have their first meeting in a couple of years. And with that train reference, Bendrix thinks about how Sarah has often disconcerted him with the truth. He thinks about times in their relationship when he had tried to get her to promise their affair would never end. And even though he just wanted to reject her promises himself, Sarah had never engaged in that game of make-believe, and would instead assure him that she had never loved a man as much as him, and never would again.

13:10 Megan: Sarah sits down and tells Bendrix that she made a reservation at Rules, where they used to go to lunch together. Bendrix notices that they've caught the attention of a man sitting with a young boy in the cafe. Bendrix tells Sarah that they can go there for lunch. Sarah says she's never been back to Rules, but Bendrix says he goes there several times a week. When Sarah stands up and suggests they go, she has a coughing fit that concerns Bendrix, but she assures him nothing's wrong.

13:34 Elizabeth: When they arrive at Rules, the waiter greets Sarah and Bendrix and observes that he hasn't seen either of them in a very long time, which makes Bendrix regret telling Sarah that he still spends a lot of time there. After eating their lunch, Sarah tells Bendrix that she is worried about Henry and asks Bendrix to check on him from time to time, because he's lonely. Bendrix asks Sarah how Henry is lonely with her, and she reminds him that Henry's never really noticed her, not for years.

14:02 Megan: Sarah asks Bendrix if he's working on another book and tells him that she didn't like his last one very much. Bendrix notes that it's been difficult to write anything since the end of the war. Sarah tells him she had been afraid he would publish the book she hated, and he assures her that writing a whole book is too hard work for a revenge.

14:20 Elizabeth: Bendrix pays the bill and they walk out of the restaurant. Bendrix stops by a grating where he and Sarah shared their first kiss years before, so they can say their goodbyes. Bendrix moves towards Sarah and says her name, but just then, she has another serious coughing fit. Bendrix, with some bitterness, tells her that she needs to do something about her cough, but she tells him it's only a cough and says goodbye. Now this is making me nervous. I have a cough.

14:45 Frank: Uh-oh. Stay out of the rain. Okay. Bendrix then details his writing schedule for us, one he's closely followed for years and which has allowed him to finish one novel per year, writing at least 500 words a day for five days of the week. Bendrix says he never broke the schedule for any love affair until he met Sarah. And then instead of devoting his mornings to writing, Bendrix began spending mornings and any other free time Sarah had with her.

15:11 Megan: Even still, Bendrix had found ways to meet his daily quota while they were happy. Bendrix writes that it was only after he realized that their love was doomed that his schedule fell apart. He says that as long as he could make believe that love lasted, he could be happy, but that if love had to die, he wanted it to die quickly, and so he would start fights with Sarah on purpose.

15:32 Frank: Bendrix stands alone in his apartment in the dark, looking at the opposite building across the common. Bendrix's landlady knocks at his door and tells him that a man named Mr. Parkus is there to see him. When Mr. Parkus comes in, Bendrix notes that he looks familiar, but he can't remember why. Mr. Parkus introduces himself to Bendrix as Mr. Savage's man. and hands Bendrix the first report and expenses sheet, which his son had helped him complete. As Bendrix goes over the expense sheet, he realizes that he recognizes Mr. Parkes as the man who was watching him and Sarah at the cafe.

16:04 Elizabeth: Bendrix reads the report Mr. Parkes and his son wrote up, which includes an account of Sarah meeting a man at a cafe and then going to Rules for lunch with him. Mr. Parkes noticed that when they parted outside the restaurant, they appeared to be laboring under great emotion, and Mr. Parkes theorized that they were parting for good. Mr. Parkes, according to the report, then followed Sarah, who walked around until entering a Catholic church and sitting alone in a pew for a few minutes. Bendrix is surprised by this because Sarah is not generally religious.

16:36 Frank: Bendrix, who had been sitting in the dark, leans into the light to tell Mr. Parkas he was the man. Mr. Parkas is embarrassed and worried about what to tell his son, who admires his profession. Bendrix tries to reassure Mr. Parkas, but Mr. Parkas insists that he must come clean to his son and tell him about this mistake.

16:53 Elizabeth: Bendrix again thinks back to the beginning of his relationship with Sarah. One week after their first kiss outside of Rules, Bendrix called Sarah to invite her to see a movie that had been based on one of his books. Although the movie wasn't very good, Bendrix liked the scene where a woman's lover becomes angry with her for not eating onions because her husband didn't like the smell. Back at Rules, after the movie, the waiter brought out a dish of onions and Bendrix had asked Sarah if Henry liked them. Sarah told him that Henry hated onions, but that she loved them, and then she ate some. In the present, Bendrix wonders if it's possible to fall in love over a dish of onions, and claims that he'd done just that. I think it's kind of interesting that they just serve a whole dish of just onions.

17:41 Megan: Bendrix writes, there was no pursuit and no seduction, but that he and Sarah had left rules to go kiss in the same spot. Once there, Bendrix told Sarah he'd fallen in love, and she told him that she had too. They were unable to return to either of their homes to have sex, so they took a taxi to a hotel. Later, as they said their goodbyes, Sarah mentioned that it'd be better if she called Bendrix instead of vice versa. This made Bendrix realize how well she knew how to conduct an affair like this.

18:10 Elizabeth: At times, Bendrix describes feeling certain that there were lots of other men in Sarah's life. Typical jealousy. And that while he was arrogant in the act of love, once alone, he was full of uncertainty. One morning, Sarah called Bendrix and told him that Henry was sick at home, thus preventing her from leaving. However, Sarah invited Bendrix over to her house, saying they could tell Henry that they're discussing a movie and having sandwiches. This made Bendrix think to himself, how many times before has she planned in just this way?

18:43 Frank: And Bendrix does go over to Sarah's house and they have sex on the floor of the room below Henry's. After Sarah reached orgasm, Bendrix worried that Henry had heard her. However, Sarah told him that Henry wouldn't recognize the noise because he's never brought her to Climax before.

18:57 Elizabeth: That's sad.

18:59 Frank: Very sad. For both of them.

19:01 Megan: Addressing the reader, Bendrix writes that if his story seems meandering, it's because he's, quote, lost in a strange region, end quote. That's a pretty interesting connection to the novel that we're reading and the author himself. Because Graham Greene's other novels don't follow the non-chronological approach that we see in The End of the Affair. And it seems pretty intentional, that out of order sequencing and constantly jumping back and forth. is pretty in keeping with Bendrix's character and seems to kind of reflect his disorientation and, you know, the frustrations that he's feeling and his obsession with reexamining the past and constantly revisiting events that were important to him.

19:42 Frank: And I would certainly agree with you. I think Graham Greene wants us to be a little bit discombobulated, if that's the word. A little bit of our thoughts as well have to go back and forth to past and present.

19:53 Megan: It does a really good job of not necessarily making Bendrix an unreliable narrator, but making it unclear whether he is reliable or not. And letting us find out information out of order kind of mirrors the fact that he's often confused or misinterprets events when they occur.

20:12 Elizabeth: And also we're seeing things through his glasses, which are the opposite of rose-tinted glasses, whatever that is. He's got a very kind of hateful, rage-filled mind a lot of the time. So we're seeing things through him. And sometimes he just hates people for no real reason.

20:32 Frank: And sometimes he doesn't have all the information, as we will discuss a little later on in our conversation. He finds things out about what's happening now years later.

20:42 Megan: Bendrix also notes that on the afternoon that he had just described between him and Sarah, that he trusted Sarah completely that day. Sarah told him that she'd never loved anybody or anything the way she loved him.

20:55 Elizabeth: A letter from Mr. Parkes states that with the help of a maid, he had been able to get inside Sarah's house, which is how he happened upon a scrap of paper that appeared to be part of a love letter in Sarah's handwriting. In the letter, Sarah wrote that she is only beginning to love, but already wants to abandon everything. everybody but you. She does not, however, write the name of whoever you is. And interestingly enough, Bendrix had also mentioned that when they were together, she would always call him you most of the time.

21:29 Megan: Bendrix compares this scrap of a letter to his memories of the letters Sarah used to write him. In those letters, Sarah had always been careful to avoid open declarations of love and instead wrote the word onions for love and sex. Bendrix thinks of this with hatred.

21:46 Elizabeth: Bendrix wonders to himself, why doesn't hatred kill desire? He writes that there was a time when he tried to find a substitute for Sarah and it hadn't worked. Bendrix admits that he is a jealous man and is jealous of whoever his rival is. He remembers the fights he and Sarah used to have about his jealousy, which was what he used to measure love.

22:08 Frank: Bendrix remembers that this argument between himself and Sarah took place about a year into their relationship while they were in his room. He writes that he hated her because he wished to think she didn't love him. Even though Sarah tried to apologize and end the argument, Bendrix challenged her by claiming she'd be jealous if Henry threatened their marriage by sleeping with someone else. But Sarah asserted that their marriage would never be threatened.

22:31 Megan: Bendrix took this as an insult and left the apartment. Out of spite, Bendrix went to find a prostitute that he might be able to bring to his apartment. Once Bendrix found one, however, he realized that passion for Sarah had killed simple lust forever. Because of this, Bendrix left the prostitute behind and returned home to find that Sarah had left.

22:52 Elizabeth: In the present, Bendrix wonders why people who believe in God don't also believe in a personal devil. Bendrix thinks about the power his own devil has, and always has had over him. He writes that nothing Sarah ever said was enough to calm his personal devil down. Bendrix believes that if God is all about love, then devils, including his own, would be devoted to teaching people like Bendrix and Mr. Parkes to destroy love wherever we find it.

23:20 Megan: Parkis reports that he has discovered that Sarah spends much of her time, sometimes secretly, at a private residence on Cedar Road. Parkis promises to discover which flat she is spending time in shortly, but notes that there's not any proof that Sarah is doing anything wrong on Cedar Road. Bendrix claims that he would have dropped the case right then, but then he sees Henry's face in the paper and is overcome by hatred again. He writes Henry a letter saying he has something important to share.

23:48 Frank: Henry and Bendrix meet up for lunch at a nearby restaurant. Henry is clearly ill at ease while he eats and becomes evasive when Bendrix asks how Sarah. Bendrix asks Henry if he ever consulted a detective after the night Henry told him that he was worried about Sarah. Henry tries to change the subject, but Bendrix abruptly tells him that he has seen a detective.

24:08 Elizabeth: Henry becomes angry, says Bendrix had no right, and tries to leave. But Bendrix prevents him. He tells Henry that the detective has found a love letter. But when Bendrix hands him the report, Henry throws it in the fire. Bendrix tells Henry that he hasn't got rid of the facts as Henry storms out of the building.

24:26 Megan: Henry drops his hat on his way out of the restaurant after Bendrix gives him Parkes' reports, so Bendrix walks out after him. Bendrix wanders into the Victoria Gardens and spots Henry sitting on a bench. It's clear Henry is crying, and Bendrix, overcome with an uncharacteristic feeling of sympathy, apologizes to him.

24:45 Elizabeth: Henry invites Bendrix to sit down and asks if he and Sarah also had an affair. At first, Bendrix is evasive, but Henry tells him it's the only possible reason for Bendrix's decision to hire a detective. Bendrix starts to feel overcome by jealousy again, so he tells Henry that there were also others. When Henry asks him why, Bendrix says it was because Henry is a bore and a fool.

25:10 Megan: Henry asks Bendrix why his affair with Sarah ended, and Bendrix explains that he also became a bore, boring her with complaints and jealousy. Henry and Bendrix look around the empty park in silence for a while, before Bendrix goes on to say that he and Sarah had simply used up all of their love. Sarah could do all kinds of domestic duties in her home with Henry, but all she and Bendrix could do was have sex, which is kind of an insensitive thing to say to her husband. She can clean, she can cook with you, vacuum, but with me, it's just that.

25:45 Elizabeth: Henry says that Sarah is very fond of Bendrix, to which Bendrix replies that one isn't satisfied with fondness. Henry, however, retorts that he is. Henry says it isn't human nature for love to go on and on, as Bendrix wanted. Bendrix remembers that Sarah said something very different when she ended their affair.

26:06 Megan: Bendrix remembers that when his affair with Sarah ended, she told him, quote, love doesn't end, end quote. Bendrix didn't realize it at the time, but Sarah had made up her mind to leave him already. Sarah told him that a lot of people went their whole lives loving God without seeing him, which Bendrix now considers his first clue that Sarah was, quote, under a stranger's influence.

26:29 Frank: Bendrix writes that this was the first night of the V-1 air raids on London in June 1944. Even though Bendrix and Sarah could hear the explosions, they didn't worry about the bombs until they were finished having sex. Bendrix told Sarah he was going to see if anyone was in the bomb shelter in his building. As Bendrix walks down the stairs, he heard a V-1 approach and then, suddenly, his mind was totally clear for a moment.

26:52 Megan: When he came to, Bendrix found that he was lying under a door and missing two of his teeth, but was otherwise uninjured. Bendrix walked back to his room and saw Sarah crouched on the floor. As soon as Sarah saw Bendrix come in, she jumped up and told him that she had to go. But first she stopped to help him clean his face. She told him that she had been praying after seeing him under the door. She was sure he was dead. Once Bendrix was cleaned up, Sarah left, and he did not see or hear from her again for two years.

27:21 Elizabeth: In the days after the air raid that nearly killed him, Bendrix held out hope that Sarah's absence was temporary. Once he heard that Sarah was in the country, he assumed her letters to him had been lost and she couldn't make a phone call. Eventually, Bendrix remembered Sarah's observation about people loving God their whole lives without seeing him, and assumed that she had left him for another man. From that point on, Bendrix hated Sarah.

27:46 Megan: Returning to the events of the story, Bendrix says that Mr. Parkes' next report revealed that Sarah was seeing a Richard Smythe and his sister, Miss Smythe. Bendrix decides he has to see Richard Smythe for himself. Mr. Parkes and Bendrix meet at a tea shop to discuss what Bendrix's next step should be. Mr. Parkes warns that if Bendrix confronts Smythe directly, then it could complicate the case if it goes to court.

28:11 Frank: Bendrix assures Parkas that he only wants to see Smythe, and he devises a plan to use Parkas' son, Lance, to get into the apartment. He'll knock on the door and pretend he was looking for someone else, and then pretend that Lance was sick, so Miss Smythe would invite them in.

28:26 Elizabeth: The next day, Bendrix takes Lance to Cedar Road to try to see Richard Smythe. Bendrix instructs Lance to pretend to be sick, and they walk up to Smythe's apartment. As predicted, Miss Smythe answers the door and invites them in when she sees that Lance looks sick. Bendrix sits in the living room and talks to Miss Smythe for a few minutes. As they make small talk, she reveals that her brother works on Sundays but is not a clergyman.

28:52 Frank: Bendrix is surprised to see that one of his cheeks is covered in, quote, gross livid spots, unquote. Even still, Bendrix wonders if Miss Smythe sits in a different room while Sarah and Richard have sex, or if they send Miss Smythe out for groceries.

29:05 Megan: Richard looks closely at Bendrix and Lance before proclaiming that he's seen Lance around somewhere. Bendrix tries to take Lance and leave, but Richard tries to convince them to stay. Every time Bendrix looks at Richard's cheek, he feels his anger growing more and more. It seems horribly bizarre to Bendrix that Sarah would sleep with a man like Richard, and it seems to diminish her importance in Bendrix's mind.

29:29 Elizabeth: Richard reveals that he is an atheist and that people sometimes visit him to talk about philosophy, but before he can go into more detail, Bendrix abruptly announces his departure but mentions that his friend, Mrs. Miles, might be interested. Richard's face turns deep red and Miss Smythe exclaims, oh my dear, as Bendrix shuts the door.

29:51 Megan: Mr. Parkes describes a party at Sarah's house that he managed to sneak into by making Sarah believe he was one of Henry's friends. Mr. Parkes puts a package on Bendrix's desk and tells him it is Sarah's diary, which he found in her room during the party. Bendrix opens the diary and sees that it is a couple of years old and the entries are not daily, but they cover the time up until the present.

30:14 Elizabeth: Bendrix thanks Mr. Parkes and promises to tell Mr. Savage about how well he's done his job. Mr. Parkes shakes Bendrix's hand before leaving. Once Mr. Parkes is gone, Bendrix opens the journal. What he reads in the journal is like a declaration of love, and he notes that it's a strange thing to discover and to believe that you are loved.

30:35 Frank: All right, readers, I think we'll take another break here before we and Bendrix get into reading more of Sarah's diary. You're listening to Novel Conversations. We'll be right back. All right, readers, before we took our break, Bendrix had received Sarah's diary from Mr. Parkes, the detective, and he's going to start reading a little bit of the diary for himself and, of course, for us, the readers.

31:03 Megan: Bendrix opens Sarah's diary to the last page and reads the final two paragraphs. The first paragraph is directed to, quote, you. That's with a capital Y, which is different from the scrap of love letter that Bendrix read earlier in the novel that Sarah had written to you with a lowercase y. The diary entry also includes an appeal to you to give Bendrix peace. No names are mentioned, however. In the second entry, dated February 12th, 1946, Sarah writes that although she had experienced a period of peace, she dreamed of Maurice and no longer felt that peace. In an aside, Bendrix writes that he started reading the diary from the beginning, but did not read every entry because some of them still had the power to hurt.

31:49 Elizabeth: On June 12th, 1944, Sarah writes that she gets so tired of trying to make Maurice understand that she truly loves him. She writes that she knows Maurice is afraid of that desert they'll find themselves in if their relationship ends, but expresses frustration that she can't make him understand that she feels the same way.

32:08 Megan: In the same journal entry, Sarah wonders if God could fill the desert if she believed in him. She describes herself as someone who wants everything, and then considers that many people believe that God is everything. Sarah then describes the love she has for Maurice and says she believes in his love for her because she feels love for him. This leads Sarah to believe that if she could love God, then she would be able to believe God loves her too.

32:33 Elizabeth: Writing about the day before, on June 17, 1944, Sarah says she wants to keep writing because, quote, as long as she goes on writing, yesterday is today and they are still together, end quote. Sarah describes going to the park and hearing an atheist attack Christianity, even though nobody seemed to be listening.

32:54 Frank: On the evening before, Sarah notices that she mistakenly wrote this evening instead of last evening, but writes that it doesn't matter because in the desert there's no time. Furthermore, Sarah says she can return to Maurice without anyone except herself and God, who Sarah writes can't exist, knowing that she has broken a mysterious vow.

33:14 Megan: Sarah writes that she and Maurice paid no attention to the sirens when they heard them. At first, they weren't worried. But when the air raid continued, Maurice went to see if anyone was in the basement. Sarah writes that after he left, there was an explosion in the house. She went downstairs and found Maurice under a door, seemingly dead.

33:31 Elizabeth: Sarah describes, in a moment of hysteria, kneeling on the floor to pray, even though she'd never been taught how. During her prayer, Sarah asked God to make her believe, and promised that she would believe if God let Maurice live. Continuing her prayer, Sarah told God that she would give Maurice up forever if he were allowed to live. Just then, Sarah writes, Maurice walked in, and she thought to herself, now the agony of being without him starts.

33:59 Megan: On July 10th, 1944, Sarah writes that she went out for a walk several times during the day, hoping to run into Maurice, because accidentally running into him won't break her vow to God. In the park, Sarah saw that man with the spots was still attacking Christianity, and wondered if he would be able to talk her into believing that she doesn't have to keep a promise if she doesn't believe in the person she made it to. A woman with the man passed out cards to people in the park, and Sarah took one.

34:28 Elizabeth: On the same night, Sarah writes that some of Henry's co-workers came over for dinner. Henry and one of his co-workers talked about the V1s, and Sarah writes that she wanted to tell them about finding Maurice trapped under the door and that she was naked at the time because she and Maurice were having an affair.

34:44 Megan: Sarah wonders if Henry would have heard her if she did say these things. Sarah writes that she turned her attention to another of the men from Henry's job, Dunstan. Sarah thought to herself that Dunstan would simply accept an affair for what it was and wouldn't be cross or indifferent. Sarah asked herself, quote, why shouldn't I escape from this desert if only for half an hour, end quote. Sarah also remembered that her vow was only about Maurice. In the rest of her diary entries from July 1944, Sarah writes of meeting D for dinner and kissing him once while they were out with Henry.

35:18 Elizabeth: It's interesting that she takes this vow that she made to God so seriously, but she doesn't seem to take her vows of marriage seriously, you know?

35:29 Frank: And at this point, we're not even sure when she made the vow, we're not even sure if she believed in the God she was making this vow to as well.

35:37 Elizabeth: Right, I think she's struggling with her belief and disbelief for some time here. Back to the diary. On September 12, 1944, Sarah writes that she went out by herself and had a few drinks, but that this was a mistake. When Henry came home, he was excited to announce that he was going to receive an OBE. Sarah said she didn't understand, and Henry told her that if he kept moving up through the ranks at work, then one day she could be Lady Miles.

36:07 Frank: But to herself, Sarah thought that she only wanted to be Mrs. Bendrix, which she could never do now. That night, Sarah remembered the time she asked Henry if he'd ever had an affair. Incredulous, Henry told her that he hadn't and that he'd never loved any other woman. Sarah thinks to herself, well, I loved Maurice, I loved Henry, and now I'm what they call good. I don't love anyone at all. And you, capital Y, the least of all.

36:32 Megan: On September 10, 1945, Sarah writes that while she was cleaning out an old purse, she found a business card for Richard Smythe with an address for those who wanted to visit him. Sarah writes that she wanted to, quote, take a different medicine, end quote, and that if Richard could convince her that her promise to God was meaningless, then she would write Maurice and go back to him.

36:54 Frank: Readers, just to remind our listeners, Richard Smythe is an atheist. He preaches against anyone believing in a God that he doesn't believe in.

37:04 Elizabeth: And he doesn't believe in any God.

37:05 Frank: And he doesn't believe in any God.

37:07 Elizabeth: Sarah asked Richard how she should decide what to do if love didn't really exist. Although Richard claimed not to know for certain, he advised Sarah to choose whatever would make her happiest. To herself, Sarah thought that Richard only got happiness from feeling like he could be comforting and useful to other people. As Sarah prepared to leave, Richard invited her to come back to listen to him talk for an hour each week. Sarah told him that she would come back.

37:35 Megan: On January 10, 1946, Sarah writes that she walked out in the rain because she couldn't tolerate being inside. As she walked, Sarah talked to God and remembered that when she asked him to save Maurice, it didn't matter that she didn't believe in God—God had still accepted her prayer. While Sarah thought about this, she noted that she could almost feel herself loving God for the first time. and that she, quote, wasn't afraid of the desert, end quote. When Sarah returned home, she saw Maurice with Henry and realized that it was the second time God had given Maurice back to her.

38:10 Elizabeth: On January 18, 1946, Sarah writes about going out to lunch with Maurice for the first time since they separated. Sarah says that she wanted to ask Maurice about Henry, because Henry's behavior is leading her to believe that he's worried about her, something that would be odd, because there's genuinely nothing for him to worry about anymore. She says that Maurice tried to hurt her during their lunch, and succeeded, because he was really hurting himself. Sarah wonders if she broke that old promise by going out for lunch with Maurice, but writes that she doesn't think she did.

38:45 Megan: In the same entry, Sarah says Henry told her that he had been to lunch with Bendrix, and then abruptly said, I love you. Do you know that? Sarah writes that she could have hated him for saying that. It would have been better, according to Sarah, if Henry had gotten angry, because his anger would set her free. Sarah records that she asked Henry what was wrong, and Henry tells her that he doesn't think he's been a very good husband before going on to say that they don't do anything together.

39:14 Frank: Back in her room, Sarah writes she grabbed a cheap ugly crucifix that she had bought and tried to think of a prayer that wasn't me, me, me. Instead, Sarah tried to think about the, quote, awful spots on Richard's cheek, unquote, and Henry's tear-stained face. In her prayer, Sarah begged God to teach her how to love him and to alleviate Richard and Henry's pain.

39:34 Elizabeth: On February 6th, 1946, Sarah records a terrible scene she had with Richard. Richard noticed that Sarah was distracted and asked her, what do you come here for? Sarah told him it was to see him. At this, Richard got up from his chair and sat next to Sarah. According to Sarah, she knew that he was going to make a romantic advance on her. Richard asked Sarah to marry him, but she refused.

39:59 Megan: On February 10, 1946, Sarah writes to God, did I ever love Maurice as much before I loved you? Or was it really you I loved all the time? In Sarah's final journal entry, on February 12, 1946, she writes that although her last entry was full of peace and quiet and love, she has a dream about Maurice and is no longer at peace. Instead, Sarah says, she just wants Maurice like she did before. She writes that she wants ordinary, corrupt human love, and asks God to take away her pain for a while.

40:32 Elizabeth: After reading Sarah's diary, Bendrix is elated and consumed with feelings of love and a desire to go to Sarah. Bendrix immediately calls her, but the maid who answers the phone tells him that Sarah is out. Suspicious that the maid is lying, Bendrix calls back and asks for Sarah again, but disguises his voice to sound like one of Henry's co-workers. This time, Sarah answers the phone and is surprised to hear Bendrix on the other end.

41:01 Megan: Bendrix tells her that he's coming over despite her protestations that she's too sick to see him. Bendrix tells Sarah that he still loves her and wants her to run away with him. Sarah tells him that she will leave the house if Bendrix comes, but he ignores her and runs out the door to get to her.

41:16 Elizabeth: Outside, Bendrix realizes that the weather is much worse than when he saw Henry outside the other night. There is sleet instead of rain, making it so that he can't run. He briefly loses sight of Sarah, but recalls the address of the church Mr. Parkes followed her into once, and he goes there. Sure enough, Sarah is in the church.

41:37 Frank: Bendrix sits next to her after seeing her struggle with a painful coughing fit. Sarah asks Bendrix to leave her alone, but he refuses. When Sarah asks why his behavior is so different from the other day at lunch, Bendrix reveals that he has read her diary and tells her how he got it.

41:53 Megan: Sarah, exhausted by her coughing fit, leans against Bendrix while he tells her of his plan to take her away so they can start over. Bendrix acknowledges that he was a bad lover due to his insecurity, but assures her that he's secure now. Sarah doesn't respond to Bendrix's assurances, but she doesn't stop leaning on him either.

42:12 Elizabeth: Bendrix takes this as permission to go on and tells her that she should go home and stay in bed until she's well enough for him to help her pack and take her away. As Bendrix talks, he notices that Sarah has fallen asleep. While Sarah sleeps on his shoulder, Bendrix whispers to her of his love, tells her that she shouldn't worry about Henry, and says that nobody can stop them from being together.

42:34 Megan: When Sarah wakes up, Bendrix tells her to go home and rest. Sarah, however, refuses and tells him that she wants to stay in the church a while longer. Sarah urges Bendrix to leave so she can have some time to herself.

42:47 Elizabeth: Even though Bendrix makes sure he is home at the time of day when Sarah can safely call, his phone never rings. Once, Bendrix calls Sarah's house, but hangs up quickly because he is afraid Henry will answer. Eight days pass before Bendrix's phone finally rings. When Bendrix answers it, however, Henry is the one on the line. Sarah has passed away, and Henry, distraught, wants Bendrix to come over for a drink.

43:14 Megan: Bendrix sleeps on the sofa in Henry's house the night after Sarah's death. Over a bottle of whiskey, Bendrix asks Henry to tell him what happened to Sarah. Henry explains that the night after he and Bendrix ran into each other on the Common, about four weeks prior, Sarah developed a cold but refused to see a doctor. Then about a week prior, Sarah went out in the rain and came back completely soaked through and running a high fever. Henry called a doctor, but the doctor told Henry that he should have called a week ago. The cold had infected Sarah's lungs, and it was too late to save her. In his thoughts, Bendrix tells God, I hate you if you exist.

43:51 Elizabeth: Bendrix asks Henry about Sarah's funeral, and Henry tells him that he is confused about what to do, because Sarah kept on asking for a priest in her final hours. Henry said he is worried, but plans on having Sarah cremated.

44:05 Frank: Bendrix assures Henry that Sarah only mentioned the priest because she was delirious with fever. But Henry tells him that Sarah had been so strange before her death that she may have become a Catholic, unbeknownst to either of them. Bendrix tells Henry that Sarah didn't believe in God any more than they do. In his thoughts, however, Bendrix says that he wanted her burnt up so he'd be able to challenge God to resurrect her. He notes that his jealousy hadn't diminished with Sarah's death, but that he views it as her running away with another lover.

44:36 Megan: Henry interrupts Bendrix's thoughts to ask if he's sure Sarah wasn't a Catholic. Bendrix answers in the affirmative, but in his mind, Bendrix warns himself not to hate like Richard Smythe, because if he were really to hate, he would believe.

44:51 Frank: Right, you can't hate something that you don't believe in, right?

44:54 Elizabeth: Henry asks Bendrix to stay the night as a favor to Henry, and Bendrix agrees. When Henry leaves the room to get Bendrix some blankets and pajamas, Bendrix looks around the room. He notices a rock that he and Sarah found on an excursion once, and a wooden rabbit that he purchased for her.

45:12 Megan: The next morning, Bendrix wakes up before Henry. A maid brings Bendrix some breakfast, and while he eats, he thinks about how he needs to begin again and fall in love, but he's ultimately unable to convince himself that he's capable of falling in love with anyone else.

45:28 Elizabeth: While Bendrix eats, Richard Smythe is shown into the room. When Richard says that he's come to offer help to Henry, Bendrix coldly replies that most people would write a card. Richard asks Bendrix about the funeral and then reveals that Sarah would have wanted a Catholic ceremony she wrote to him several days before saying she was beginning the process of conversion.

45:50 Megan: Richard asks to see Sarah's body, so Bendrix points him in the direction of the spare bedroom where Sarah's body remains. After spending some time in Sarah's room, Richard asks Bendrix to, quote, let her have her Catholic funeral, end quote, because she wanted it. Richard explains that he knows Henry has a lot of respect for Bendrix and would give Sarah a Catholic funeral if he suggested it, which sends Bendrix into a hysterical laughing fit.

46:15 Frank: Richard asks Bendrix if he knows that Sarah wrote to him. This makes Bendrix remember, with sadness, that she never so much as called him. Richard tells Bendrix that in her letter, Sarah asked him to pray for her. So he did. Bendrix tells Richard that it doesn't seem right that he prayed to someone he didn't believe in. Bendrix walks out of the house with Richard and goes back to his own apartment.

46:37 Elizabeth: In his apartment building, Bendrix observes that the only thing that remains unchanged from 1944 is the stained glass window. In a narrated aside, Bendrix writes that Sarah really believed that the end began when she found Bendrix trapped under the door. He, however, believes the end began much earlier because there were fewer phone calls and far more arguments between them. Furthermore, Bendrix believes that if the bomb had hit his apartment a year earlier, then Sarah would have done everything she could to get the door off him instead of praying to God.

47:14 Megan: Back in his narrative, Bendrix wonders what he did to Sarah that she would pray for him to have a second chance at life, which is now odorless, antiseptic, and empty. Bendrix blames Sarah for this, as though her prayers had really worked. Back in his apartment, Bendrix sees that a letter from Sarah has been placed on his desk in his absence.

47:35 Elizabeth: In the letter, Sarah writes that she was not going to run away with Bendrix, and that she can't see him again. She writes about going to see a priest to ask if she could divorce Henry, become a Catholic, and marry Bendrix. The priest, however, told her that she had to stay married, so Sarah walked out. Sarah says that God has more mercy than priests, but that his mercy sometimes looks like punishment.

47:58 Megan: Bendrix writes that Henry was uncertain about Sarah's funeral the afternoon before she was to be cremated. Henry calls Bendrix and asks him to come over. When Bendrix gets there, Henry introduces him to a priest named Father Crompton. Bendrix has the distinct impression that Crompton knows who he is and disapproves.

48:17 Elizabeth: Father Crompton assures Henry that he would have taken over Sarah's funeral preparations immediately if he'd known about her death. In a narrated aside, Bendrix notes that he hated Father Crompton because he was the victor while he and Henry were victims. Father Crompton explains that Sarah had shown an interest in becoming Catholic and through the baptism of desire she qualified for a Catholic burial.

48:42 Frank: At the funeral, suddenly, a familiar voice tells Bendrix it's a sad pleasure to see him again. Bendrix turns around to see Parkis, who explains that he took the afternoon off to see the funeral because Sarah was a, quote, very fine lady. Bendrix asks where Lance is, and Parkis explains that Lance is ill with violent stomach aches and hadn't been able to come. Bendrix asks Parkis to name the people who are there, and Parkis points out Dustin. At the sight of him, Bendrix feels his old hatred return. even though he also thinks that he would have been willing to share Sarah with a world of men if only she could be alive again.

49:16 Megan: Just then, a gray-haired woman walks up and asks if he is Mr. Bendrix. When Bendrix confirms that he is, the woman introduces herself as Mrs. Bertram. Sarah's mother. Mrs. Bertram asks if Bendrix can lend her a little money to get lunch and go home. He offers to buy Mrs. Bertram dinner. Bendrix wants to avoid memories of Sarah, so he brings Mrs. Bertram to a restaurant he never went to with Sarah.

49:40 Elizabeth: Over dinner, Mrs. Bertram tells Bendrix that she didn't like the service, that Henry is a very mean man, and that she's had to borrow money from Henry in the past. Mrs. Bertram repeats that she didn't like Sarah's service, and then reveals that Sarah was a Catholic. When Bendrix tells her that that can't be, she reveals that she had had Sarah baptized as a toddler. Mrs. Bertram makes Bendrix promise not to tell anyone because the baptism was conducted in secret, not even Sarah knew. Mrs. Bertram says she always hoped the baptism would take the way a vaccination did. Bendrix assures her that it didn't.

50:18 Megan: Even though Bendrix once joked to himself that Henry would ask him to move in, he's surprised when the invitation comes. Henry tells Bendrix that he has plenty of space in his apartment for Bendrix to move his books and other things.

50:31 Elizabeth: After moving into Henry's house, Bendrix makes a more active effort to move on. Once, while Henry is away for a few days, Bendrix brings a prostitute back to the house to see if he can enjoy sex again. However, Bendrix finds that he can't enjoy sex with the prostitute and remarks sadly that he now has to give up something he's always enjoyed. Bendrix pulls out some of Sarah's childhood books to look at and comforts himself with looking at all the scribbles in Sarah's books before putting them away.

51:00 Frank: One morning, Henry comes into the house late and explains that he had gone to Fr. Crompton's church to hear him say Mass for Sarah, and that he invited Fr. Crompton over for dinner. Henry tries to make conversation with Fr. Crompton, but the priest only gives short answers to most of his comments. Finally, Henry says that he hasn't prayed in a long time, not since he was a child, and the priest tells him that any kind of prayer is good because it's a recognition of God's power.

51:25 Megan: The doorbell rings and Bendrix runs to get it. A woman hands Bendrix a package from Mr. Parkes, which contains a book and a letter. In the letter, Mr. Parkes explains that he asked for the book because Lance, who was sick and needed surgery, begged for a memento from Sarah. On the night he received the book, Mr. Parkes prayed to God, his wife and Sarah to help Lance get better. In the morning, Lance was well again. Mr. Parkes says that there is an inscription in the book. When Bendrix flips the book open, he sees that Sarah had scribbled something about reading the book when one is sick in bed.

52:01 Elizabeth: Bendrix asks Henry if he looked in the book that he gave to Mr. Parkes. Henry says that he didn't and asks why. Bendrix explains that it must be a coincidence before handing Mr. Parkes' letter to Henry and Father Crompton to read. After reading the letter and the inscription in Sarah's book, Father Crompton notes that Sarah was a good woman and that, quote, there's no harm in praying to the dead as well as for them, end quote.

52:27 Megan: Henry apologizes for Bendrix's outburst, but Father Crompton says that there is no need to apologize, because he knows when a man is in pain. Furious, Bendrix proclaims that he isn't in pain, but in hate. Bendrix tells them that he hates Sarah, and Henry and Father Crompton, which prompts the priest to tell Bendrix that he is a good hater. Bendrix wonders to himself if one can really hate and love at the same time, and then thinks of all of the things about himself that he hates, including the fact that he pursued Sarah in the first place and his untrusting mind.

53:02 Frank: The book that Bendrix is working on isn't going well, so he goes for a walk in the park. At the park, Bendrix notices Richard Smythe in a crowd in front of a street performer. Bendrix approaches Richard and asks if he still speaks in the park. Richard tells Bendrix that he has given up speaking about atheism and is no longer sure what to believe. Bendrix notices that Richard is holding a handkerchief against a cheek that is covered in spots. So Bendrix asks him what is wrong. Without a word, Richard takes the handkerchief off and reveals a perfectly smooth cheek. Bendrix asks how it happened, and Richard evasively answers that it was, quote, modern methods, electricity, unquote.

53:41 Elizabeth: Bendrix goes back home to struggle over writing a character in his book. As he works, Bendrix imagines that God must experience a similar feeling about a lot of people, who only help to furnish the scene in which a living character moves and speaks. After working for a while, Bendrix hears Henry come home. Bendrix goes to Henry so they can leave for their usual evening drink at the bar. While Henry gets ready, he tells Bendrix that he ran into Mrs. Bertram, who needed to borrow some money, and grew angry when Henry lectured her about borrowing so much. Henry adds that Mrs. Bertram then told him a strange story. Before he can explain, Bendrix tells him that Mrs. Bertram shared the same story with him already, and assures Henry that it's just an odd coincidence.

54:25 Megan: While Henry is getting his shoes on, the phone rings. Bendrix runs to get it himself. Richard Smythe is on the other end and anxiously reveals that he lied about how his cheek healed. Bendrix states that he really doesn't care, but Richard goes on to say that his cheek cleared up overnight and that it was a, but Bendrix hangs up on him before Richard can finish the sentence.

54:47 Frank: Bendrix convinces himself that it's a gimmick and that soon Richard will be speaking about it in the park the same way he spoke about atheism. Henry walks in and asks who was on the phone, but Bendrix, worried that Henry might run to Father Crompton with the story, tells him Richard called to share that he had been to a doctor who cleared up the spots on his face.

55:05 Elizabeth: Bendrix rips the cover off Sarah's diary and it falls open to the entry where she asks God to give Bendrix peace. Addressing Sarah, Bendrix thinks, you failed there, Sarah. He tells Sarah that he has neither peace nor love, except love for Sarah. Bendrix thinks about how he had called himself a man of hate, but notes that now he doesn't feel much hatred.

55:27 Megan: He thinks about how Sarah, despite all her sins, took the leap into acceptance and belief in God. and he considers the implication that anyone could do the same and attain sainthood. Turning to God, Bendrix tells him that he, quote, hasn't got Bendrix yet, end quote, and rejects God's peace and love. Bendrix accuses God of ruining his and Sarah's happiness and says, I hate you, God. I hate you as though you existed.

55:55 Elizabeth: Bendrix looks down at Sarah's diary and realizes that it is all he has left of Sarah, so he picks it up and puts it away. Then Bendrix says to Sarah that he will believe in God, but that, quote, it will take more than your prayers to turn this hatred of him into love, end quote. Bendrix describes his hatred for God as something that is in his brain and therefore can't be removed, like some physical ailment.

56:19 Frank: Henry calls to Bendrix to see if he's ready to go out for a drink. The two men walk out together to the bar. Henry tells Bendrix that he always, quote, looks forward to these evening walks of ours. Bendrix agrees and puts a hand on Henry's arm while thinking to himself that he will have to be strong for both of them. Then Henry says that their walks are the only things he looks forward to. This prompts Bendrix to pray to God, Oh God, you've done enough. You've robbed me of enough. I'm too tired and old to learn to love. Leave me alone forever. with Bendrix not sure if he believes in a God, but he's pretty sure he hates the God. It's a little bit confusing at the end, but I think it shows the turmoil that Bendrix is in, in his soul and in his mind. All really good stuff, Elizabeth, Megan. Now, let's take a final break, and then we'll head into our last segment, where I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. You've been listening to Novel Conversations. I'm Frank Lavallo. We'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Novel Conversations. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo. And today I've had a conversation about the novel, The End of the Affair by Graham Greene. And I was joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Megan Canty. All right, Elizabeth, Megan, before our break, we ended our story. Now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or character or perhaps a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Elizabeth, do you have something for us?

57:53 Elizabeth: Yes, right before Sarah's funeral, Bendrix is having an interview about one of his novels. And the man who's interviewing him is with a young woman, who I guess is a student of his or something. And they've got some kind of romantic thing going on. And she clearly takes an interest in Bendrix. And in fact, she accompanies him to the funeral. And they end up being late to the funeral.

58:23 Frank: That's Sylvia, right?

58:24 Elizabeth: Yes, Sylvia. And it's just a little odd that he would take another young woman to a funeral of his former lover, but maybe he's trying to prove to himself that he can get over her. I'm not really sure.

58:39 Frank: And then… That maybe he can move on?

58:41 Elizabeth: Yeah, but he starts not feeling so good about it. And he actually prays that something will happen to prevent anything from, you know, going further with him and this woman. And that is when Sarah's mother comes and interrupts them and ruins the moment.

58:59 Frank: I do remember that scene. Megan, do you have something?

59:02 Megan: Yeah. I think that just something that was definitely present all throughout our discussion, but we weren't overtly pointing out, and that I think is one of the most crushing parts of the story is just how Bendrix is always finding out information too late. to act on it and it leads to so much regret. And he's always making assumptions about situations and later finding out how wrong he was. And often that it's too late to make a correction about it. And that just brings a lot of pain to him. And I've always thought that it's interesting because We mentioned earlier how different this is in structure from Graham Greene's other books. But I find it interesting that when this was written, it actually was very shortly after the end of the war. And in biographies of Greene, they discuss how he was also really going through a very tumultuous time in his own life, feeling a lot of despair and regret and uncertainty about things. And You know, it seems that a lot of this reflects those feelings and struggles he was having. And as a result, they're just, you know, they're felt very deeply. You know, you really connect emotionally, you know, with the pain that Bendrix is going through.

01:00:20 Frank: I'm glad you mentioned about Bendrix sometimes, as you said, jumping to conclusions without all the information, because I want to briefly ask about the information. I mentioned at the very beginning of our conversation, can we trust Bendrix as the narrator? We really are only getting his story and his version. It's not really until later in the novel that we get Sarah's story and her version. So I'm going to just throw that out there very quickly for both of you. Can we trust the narration by Bendrix Now.

01:00:50 Megan: I think as long as this doesn't sound like hedging, I think we can trust it in that it's his experience. It's obviously not objective, but I think that more so than whether we can trust him, I think is more, he's kind of our lens into, we learn things as he does, you know, because of the way that the novel is. So I think we can trust him that he's acting on what he believes to be true at the time. He doesn't hide information or obscure it. He's just very- Not fully informed. Not fully informed and often regrets the way that he acts on bad information.

01:01:29 Elizabeth: Yeah, so he's not being deceptive, but he does jump to conclusions. He doesn't have all the information, so we don't know the objective truth necessarily.

01:01:42 Frank: All right, great. Thanks to both of you for coming in and having this conversation with me today. I want to thank you both. I'm Frank Lavallo. You've been listening to Novel Conversations. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversations. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. I want to give special thanks to our readers today, Elizabeth Flood and Megan Canty. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Foutz, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lavallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.

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