00:06 Elizabeth Hello, and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lovallo. And for each episode of Novel Conversations, I talk to two readers about one book. And together, we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we even read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's conversation is about the novel, The Invisible Man, by H.G. Wells. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Katie Smith. Elizabeth, Katie, hello. Welcome.

00:39 Katie Glad to be here.

00:40 Elizabeth Hi. Glad to have you both here. Before we get started, I want to give a quick summary of The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells. The Invisible Man is a science fiction novel originally serialized in Pearson's Weekly in 1897 and published as a novel in that same year. The Invisible Man of the title is Griffin, Jack Griffin, a scientist who has devoted himself to research into optics and who invents a way to change a body's refractive index to that of air so it neither absorbs nor reflects light. He carries out this procedure on himself and renders himself invisible, but fails in his attempt to reverse it. a practitioner of random and irresponsible violence, Griffin, the Invisible Man, has become an iconic character in horror fiction. Also, while its predecessors, The Time Machine and The Island of Dr. Moreau, were written using first-person narratives, Wells adopts a third-person objective point of view in The Invisible Man. The novel is considered an influential example of the science fiction genre and helped establish Wells as the father of science fiction. Katie, Elizabeth, as we begin our conversation, we probably should tell our listeners the novel really starts in the middle of the story.

01:46 Frank That's true.

01:46 Katie There's no usual scenes of test tubes and bubbling liquids and no endless sleepless nights poring over Latin and Greek texts.

01:55 Elizabeth Right. No aha moment from The Invisible Man. Well, how does it start?

01:59 Katie Well, The Invisible Man begins with the main character, Griffin, arrives at the local inn owned by Mr. and Mrs. Hall in the English village of Ipping, West Sussex, during a snowstorm. The stranger wears a long-sleeved, thick coat with gloves, and his face is hidden entirely in bandages except for a prosthetic nose, and he wears a wide-brimmed hat.

02:23 Frank And to match his eccentric appearance, Griffin has an unusual personality. He is excessively reclusive, irascible, unfriendly, and introverted. He immediately demands to be left alone and spends most of his time in his rooms working with a set of chemicals and laboratory equipment. The only time he comes out is at night. He quickly is identified by the town as the stranger.

02:48 Elizabeth And this personality is not something that sits well with the locals who, living in a small town, are used to knowing and getting along with everyone. Now, Elizabeth, you mentioned something about laboratory equipment?

02:59 Frank While Griffin is staying at the inn, hundreds of strange glass bottles and tubes arrive. Many local townspeople believe this to be very odd. He becomes the talk of the village, with many theorizing his origins.

03:12 Katie And it's one of the first thing that arouses the curiosity, the ire of the locals. He's bossy, he's rude, obnoxious about receiving and securing his equipment.

03:23 Elizabeth And he makes immediate demands about sending a carriage for his equipment.

03:27 Katie despite being told repeatedly that he needs to wait until the morning.

03:31 Elizabeth And when the equipment does arrive?

03:32 Frank Well, everyone in the village knows he has received hundreds of test tubes and various other lab equipment.

03:39 Elizabeth And the curiosity grows.

03:40 Katie And grows. More than once, he causes accidents with his experiments. And Mrs. Hall, who along with her husband, owns the inn, demands that Griffin pay for the damage to their inn. When Mrs. Hall addresses this, the stranger angrily demands that the cost of the damage be put on his bill.

03:59 Elizabeth And we're told that shortly after this encounter, a mysterious burglary occurs in the village. Clearly, Griffin is running out of money and is trying to find a way to pay for his board and his lodging.

04:09 Frank When his landlady again demands that he pay his bill and quit the premises, he reveals his invisibility to her in a fit of anger.

04:17 Katie An attempt to apprehend the stranger by Officer Jaffers, the village constable in Ipping, is thwarted when he undresses to take advantage of his invisibility. He fights off his would-be captors and flees to the South Downs.

04:31 Elizabeth All right, with that start and quick introduction, let's take a break here. And when we come back, we'll continue our conversation about the stranger, the invisible man, now that he's revealed his invisibility to the village. You're listening to Novel Conversations. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right, Katie, Elizabeth, when we left Jack Griffin, also known as the Invisible Man, and now also known as the Stranger, he had revealed his invisibility to the village and fled into the Downs. Elizabeth, now what?

05:07 Frank He flees to the South Downs, a coastal region of England, and there he meets Thomas Marvel, a homeless man whom Griffin wants to help him complete another robbery. Griffin threatens and forces Marvel into becoming his assistant.

05:21 Katie With Marvel, he returns to the village to recover three notebooks that contain records of his experiments. But Marvel is not in the business of being ordered around and is fairly clever himself. He tries to betray Griffin, who reacts angrily and threatens to kill him.

05:38 Frank Marvel steals the notebooks and all the money Griffin had stolen. He escapes to the seaside town of Port Burdock, pursued by the Invisible Man to a local inn, the Jolly Cricketers.

05:49 Katie While attempting to retake his possessions from Marvel, Griffin is shot by one of the bar patrons.

05:55 Elizabeth H.G. Wells just identifies the man with the gun as the black bearded man. He's the one who wounds the Invisible Man. The Invisible Man then takes shelter in a nearby house that turns out to belong to Dr. Kemp, a former acquaintance from medical school. And it's here that readers learn a bit more about Griffin's history. Katie, what do we learn?

06:14 Katie He reveals his true identity to Kemp. This is where we learned his name for the first time. He is a former medical student suffering from albinism who became entirely consumed by the possibility of turning himself invisible. Griffin explains to Kemp and to the reader how he experimented with invisibility.

06:32 Elizabeth Elizabeth, why did he focus on being invisible? Why was that the solution for him?

06:37 Frank Well, we're not explicitly told exactly why he wants to become invisible, but he was bullied when he was in school because he was a person with albinism. It seems that he was trying at first to figure out how to get more pigmentation into his skin. Once he realized he couldn't do that, he started becoming obsessed with how light refracts and just wondering if he could find a way to make himself invisible, perhaps so that he wouldn't be noticeable anymore. He became very interested in the refractive indexes of tissues. He left medicine to devote himself to optics and he spent his time studying formulas that could possibly render human tissue invisible.

07:20 Katie Griffin explains to Kemp and to the reader how he experimented with invisibility. He tried it on a cat at first and then burned down the boarding house in an attempt to cover up his tracks.

07:32 Frank Eventually, Griffin tests out his formula on himself, thinking only of the ways he could use his invisibility to entertain himself and gain wealth, and not considering the consequences. He quickly realized, after the experiments worked, how ill-equipped he was to survive in the open.

07:50 Elizabeth You know, exactly. To survive as an invisible man, he essentially needs to be naked, in England, in the wintertime.

07:57 Katie He eventually stole some clothing from a theatrical supply shop on Drury Lane and then headed to Ipping to attempt to reverse the invisibility.

08:06 Elizabeth On his way, he stole what he needed, and his already poor personality and selfish motives continued to worsen under the influence of these chemicals that he'd been ingesting.

08:15 Frank Now Griffin is trying to reverse his invisibility, but has yet to succeed. It seems permanent. Having been driven to the point of being somewhat unhinged by the procedure and his experiences, he now imagines that he can make Kemp his secret confidant, describing a plan to use his invisibility to terrorize the nation.

08:36 Elizabeth Right. Griffin confides in Dr. Kemp that he plans to use his invisibility to terrorize the entire country. He calls it his reign of terror. You know, Katie, it occurred to me, though, that we really haven't said anything about Dr. Kemp. What do we know about him?

08:50 Katie Dr. Kemp is a scientist who, somewhat like the Invisible Man, overestimates his own abilities. He believes himself to be just as intelligent and unique as the most important scientists of his age. He also thinks he's a perfect moral citizen of society.

09:07 Elizabeth And Elizabeth, where does this estimation or this overestimation of his abilities, as Katie said, lead Dr. Kemp?

09:15 Frank He thinks that he can outsmart Griffin.

09:18 Katie And he comes up with a plan.

09:19 Elizabeth Despite thinking he can trust Dr. Kemp, Griffin soon realizes that Kemp has already denounced him to the authorities and is, at that very moment, waiting for help to arrive as he listens to this wild proposal.

09:31 Frank The police turn up, led by Port Burdock's Chief of Police, Colonel Adie. When Adie and his men arrive at Kemp's house, Griffin fights his way out, and the next day leaves a note announcing that Kemp himself will be the first man to be killed in the Reign of Terror. And he threatens everyone else not to help Kemp.

09:51 Elizabeth All right, let's take a break here, and when we come back, we'll find out about Dr. Kemp's plan and finish our conversation. We'll be right back. And welcome back. I'm Frank Lavallo, and you're listening to Novel Conversations. All right, Katie, Elizabeth, when we left, the authorities and the mob were closing in on the Invisible Man, but he escaped and threatened a reign of terror with Dr. Kemp as his first victim. But Katie, you said Dr. Kemp had a plan.

10:26 Katie Yes, Kemp, the cool-headed character, tries to organize a plan to use himself as bait to trap the Invisible Man, but a note that he sends is stolen from his servant by Griffin.

10:39 Frank And while on his quest to find Kemp, the Invisible Griffin arms himself with an iron bar and kills an elderly man. And I want to point out, at this point, he's beyond irascible. He's just evil. So apparently he had been carrying this iron bar around and this old man saw this iron bar floating around and was kind of following him because he was wondering what was going on and Kemp just killed him.

11:08 Elizabeth And you didn't like that?

11:10 Frank No.

11:12 Katie He's certainly not the hero of the story.

11:14 Frank He also, it said he just like threw a child out of the way and the kid like broke their ankle. Oh yeah.

11:21 Katie And he also shoots the chief of police, 80, and breaks into Dr. Kemp's house. He tries to kill Kemp by strangling him. 80s constables fend him off, and Kemp bolts from the town, where the local citizenry come to his aid.

11:36 Frank The mob successfully corners Griffin. He is seized and savagely beaten by the enraged mob. His last words are a desperate cry for mercy.

11:46 Katie But despite Griffin's murderous actions, Kemp urges the mob to stand away and tries to save the life of his assailant, though unsuccessfully.

11:55 Elizabeth And as he dies, the invisible man's battered body gradually becomes visible. The line in the novel is pitiable in the stillness of death. A local policeman shouts to have someone cover Griffin's face with a sheet now that we can see it. But the story doesn't really end there, does it, Elizabeth?

12:13 Frank No, there is an epilogue.

12:14 Elizabeth An epilogue?

12:15 Frank It's revealed that the homeless man, Thomas Marvel, had stolen Griffin's notes, and he is trying to recreate his experiments, but with no success.

12:24 Katie Marvel has secretly kept Griffin's notes and, with the help of the stolen money, has now become a successful business owner, running the Invisible Man Inn.

12:35 Elizabeth But that's not all he's doing, is it?

12:37 Frank When not running the inn, Marvel sits in his office trying to decipher the notes in the hopes of one day recreating Griffin's work, because several pages were accidentally washed clean during Griffin's chase of Marvel, and the remaining notes are coded in Greek and Latin.

12:52 Katie And since Marvel has no comprehension of even the basic mathematical symbols he sees in the notes, he is completely incapable of understanding them.

13:02 Elizabeth But he perseveres, and that's essentially how our novel ends, with Thomas Marvel trying to recreate the invisibility formulas of Jack Griffin, the Invisible Man. All right, Elizabeth, Katie, let's take a final break, and then head into our last segment, where I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment, or a character, or a quote from the book that we really haven't had a chance to talk about yet. We'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Novel Conversations. Elizabeth, Katie, before our break, we ended our story, and now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Katie, do you have something for us?

13:51 Katie Yes, I wanted to mention how as we are hearing the story from Griffin of how he figured out how to turn himself invisible and why he wanted to turn himself invisible, he mentions over and over again, there was just so much I could do if I were invisible, which he doesn't ever mention what he actually wanted to do. I think he just wanted to be unseen and have a reprieve from sticking out As much as he did.

14:21 Elizabeth As an albino person. Mm-hmm. All right, Elizabeth, do you have something?

14:25 Frank I do. I think one of the more comical moments was when Mr. Marvel is carrying around the Invisible Man's books and etc. He meets this mariner and the mariner is telling him all about the Invisible Man and all about the articles in the paper. And Mr. Marvel is pretending like he had never heard of it because he knows the Invisible Man could be around anywhere. He doesn't know where he is and he doesn't want to get in trouble with him. But eventually, he starts to gather his courage. After this mariner has been talking to him all about this story, he eventually gathers his courage and he says, well, you know what? Actually, I do know a thing or two about the invisible man. Just as he's saying that, he feels the invisible man. Maybe he touches him or he pinches him or something. And then right away he has to say, oh, yeah, it's all a hoax. It's all a hoax. That's what I know. It's a hoax. The mariner gets so angry at him because he said, why did you let me talk to you about this for 10 minutes without telling me that you knew it was a hoax?

15:37 Elizabeth That was a good scene. What I'd like to talk about is, you know, as readers, we're all big fans of writers. And there's a moment where the Invisible Man is explaining to Dr. Kemp how it was during those first moments when he realized he was invisible. And he talks about having to run down a set of stairs, and how because he was invisible, he couldn't see his feet on the stairs. So his motions were very jerky and very careful. He was afraid of falling. In fact, he does trip once on the steps because he can't see himself going down the stairs. And it occurred to me that as the writer, H.G. Wells must have had to think about what would it be like to be invisible? How would I react? What would the problems be for a man who can't see what he's doing? And I just found that a fascinating moment into the mind of the writer of this novel. And I just enjoyed that moment because it showed me H.G. Wells, as a writer, had really given some thought to his character.

16:40 Katie He really put himself into that situation.

16:43 Elizabeth I really think he did. I think he absolutely imagines himself as an invisible man. I'm talking about H.G. Wells. And then comes up with some of his plot devices. Katie, do you have something else you want to share?

16:55 Katie I do. So as I was reading this book, I was also reading about philosophical anthropology and how to be a human being is to be a social creature. And that the way that we show that we're rational is by interacting with each other. And I thought that our character, Jack Griffin, is really reflecting that idea. And if he makes himself invisible, what left does he have of himself? And is that what's causing him to be so irascible throughout the whole situation?

17:25 Elizabeth And I think we can say insane instead of irascible at this point. He clearly went insane, whether it was because of the drugs he took or because of the experiences that he went through. Elizabeth, do you have another one to share with us?

17:37 Frank Yeah, I do think it's kind of funny throughout the book, he keeps calling everybody else fools and idiots. So anybody that questions what's going on, anybody that tries to stop him, anybody that's in their own house just going about their business and is confused because they hear footsteps, he calls everybody, oh, this fool, this idiot, you know, and it's like, they're just people. Yeah. Like, he's so angry all the time that everybody is his enemy, I guess.

18:11 Elizabeth And you say angry. He's angry at the world. He's angry at everybody and everything.

18:15 Katie Like a villain. Yeah.

18:17 Elizabeth Another thing that struck me is that even though it's called The Invisible Man, right, and Jack Griffin has been able to find a formula to make himself invisible, it's actually impossible to be invisible. Even when you're invisible, you leave traces of yourself. If you sit in a chair, no one can see you in the chair, but the chair cushion has an indentation and you can tell someone's sitting there even though you don't see him. Elizabeth, you mentioned earlier when he went after the elderly man with an iron bar, it's because the elderly man saw an iron bar floating in the air. It's impossible to be invisible. At another point, he runs through a puddle of water, then his feet leave footprints from the water until the water starts to dry and evaporate. So even though he's completely naked and no one can see him, If you run through a puddle, they will see your footprints. At another moment, he gets tangled up with, I think, with a young child and he gets some powder or sawdust on him. And all of a sudden, you can see the part of him that's covered with the dust and the flower. So it struck me that no matter how hard you might try or want to be invisible, even in your invisibility, you will be seen and noticed. Elizabeth, you said you had another one?

19:37 Frank Yeah, I was thinking, I mean, it's sort of like one of those things where you say, be careful what you wish for, because all this time that he's been obsessing and working so hard to become invisible and not thinking through all the consequences, And then as soon as he's experienced for a little while, he wants to go back to being visible. Because the only way that being invisible is good for you is if you have the power to also become visible. You know, if you can switch back and forth, then it would be an advantage. But being invisible all the time gets you in a lot of trouble. You really can't Interact with people.

20:18 Elizabeth I mean he had to like completely clothes himself and put a mask on his face and all this stuff and now he's visible and again, it's just very inconvenient well as Katie said it makes it difficult for you to Commune with other people if they can't see you or don't know where you are what you're doing So I can imagine it would play on your mind as we saw throughout the novel Katie. Did you have anything else?

20:42 Katie Sure, of course. So many more. Here's another one that I was thinking about. When they describe his body coming back into visibility,

20:51 Elizabeth At the end of his life, you mean, right?

20:54 Katie The way in which he becomes visible is the reverse process of how he disappeared. So the first thing you can see is the tiny little nerves and you see it in his hands and his feet, climbing up the rest of his body, spreading like a poison, they say. And then the rest of his body piece by piece. Um, first the limbs, then the bones, then the flesh and the skin all becoming opaque.

21:18 Elizabeth That's a great moment. I'm glad you reminded us of it. And again, I think it plays to what I had said earlier that HG Wells had to think about this. Not only did he have to think about how would I act or what would I be able to do when I was invisible, but then if we're going to bring the man back to visibility, How would that occur? And H.G. Wells had to think about it, and as you said, started from the smallest to the largest. And again, I'm just fascinated by the thought that H.G. Wells, as the writer, put into this novella, really a short 150-page work, a fantastic example of the writer's art. All right, guys, great lines, great moments. I think with those moments, we'll end our conversation here about The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells. I want to thank both of you for coming in and having this conversation with me today.

22:05 Katie Thank you. Thanks for having us, Frank.

22:07 Elizabeth I'm Frank Lavallo, and you've been listening to Novel Conversations. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversations. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. I want to give special thanks to our readers today, Elizabeth Flood and Katie Porcile. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Foutz, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lavallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.