Frank Hello, and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lavallo, and for each episode of Novel Conversations, I talk to two readers about one book. And together, we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. This episode's conversation is about the novel This Side of Paradise by F. Scott Fitzgerald. And I'm joined by our Novel Conversations readers, Elizabeth Flood and Anthony Mahramus. Elizabeth, Anthony, welcome. Hey, how are you?

Elizabeth Thank you, Frank.

Frank Glad to have you both here today for this conversation.

Katie Glad to be here, thank you.

Frank Before we get started, I want to give a quick introduction to our title. This Side of Paradise was the debut novel of American writer F. Scott Fitzgerald, whose full name was Francis Scott Key Fitzgerald. That's right, that Francis Scott Key. Published in 1920, the novel made his career and his marriage. The novel examines the lives and morality of carefree American youth at the dawn of the Jazz Age. Its protagonist is Amory Blaine, Smart and handsome, he dabbles in literature and engages in a series of romances with flappers and modern girls. The novel explores the theme of love warped by greed and status-seeking. Stylistically, the story is told by a knowledgeable third-person narrator who follows, and yet adds to, Amory's point of view, often telling us his own thoughts as well. The intention of the narration, which jumps from place and times, is less to follow the thread of a story than to create a sketch of Amory Blaine. Within months of its publication, This Side of Paradise became a sensation in the United States, and reviewers hailed the work as an amazing debut novel. Overnight, F. Scott Fitzgerald became a household name. His newfound fame enabled him to earn higher rates for his short stories, and his improved financial prospects persuaded his fiancée, Zelda Zare, to marry him one month later. A theme echoed often in our novel, This Side of Paradise. And readers, I just want to mention that, as you know, one of the fascinating aspects of this novel are the chapter titles. They serve as a signpost to the theme of each chapter, or actually foreshadow an action in that chapter. As we move from chapter to chapter in our conversation, I'll mention this chapter title. The first four chapters are collected into book one, called The Romantic Egoist. And chapter one is titled, Amory, Son of Beatrice. And indeed, Elizabeth, our novel opens with descriptions of Amory Blaine, the protagonist of the novel, and his mother Beatrice. Tell us a little bit about Beatrice Blaine.

Elizabeth She is the social, sophisticated mother of Amory. Beatrice was a wealthy and pretty girl from Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, educated with all the advantages of her family's wealth, including stints in Europe. She is a refined and charming woman who married the unimportant Stephen Blaine out of weariness.

Anthony The Blaines are wealthy but unique and quite distinct from the other wealthy people around them. Beatrice loves her only son deeply, both as a friend and as his mother.

Frank Okay, and Elizabeth, tell me about her son, Amory.

Elizabeth Amory is extraordinarily handsome and somewhat egocentric. He grows up watching and learning from his sophisticated mother. She, along with home tutors, passes on to him much of the elegance of her education as they travel through the country together, enjoying high society.

Frank And Anthony, what about the father?

Anthony Well, we know his name is Stephen, and he's in banking or investments, and they don't give a whole lot of detail, but Elizabeth, you're saying that he has a really unique situation.

Elizabeth Yeah, he got his money from his brothers, who both conveniently died, and they both were very successful. He just inherited his money from them.

Anthony Ah, and you wonder if that's a sticking point for Amory, that he's like, oh, he didn't earn it.

Elizabeth Well, I think that kind of carries on to Amory where he doesn't really work very hard for much.

Anthony They just have it.

Elizabeth Yeah. Okay. Just given to them.

Frank And also early on, it's implied to us that Beatrice is not always faithful to her husband.

Elizabeth And we're also told that Beatrice develops a love for the church, a true love of the clergy.

Anthony Which includes a man named Monsignor Darcy. And who is Monsignor Darcy? A man who once loved Beatrice. The end of their love affair motivated him to join the clergy. He becomes a well-respected clergyman and eventually somewhat like a foster father to Amory.

Elizabeth Although Beatrice is very involved with the church, she's not necessarily the most religious person. It kind of seemed like they were saying she kept a wobbly hold on her faith just to get attention from clergy.

Frank Well, that's right. My impression was she loved the clergy more than the church. And I think that's all we'll say about that. Yeah. But it's not all high society parties and travel for Amory and Beatrice.

Elizabeth When Amory is about 13 years old, Beatrice suffers what she describes as a nervous breakdown, the first of many.

Anthony But Amory calls it delirium tremens, which would occur after alcohol withdrawal.

Elizabeth And so Amory spends two years with an aunt and uncle in Minneapolis.

Frank And in Minneapolis, his life becomes a little bit more normal, more middle class.

Anthony But it really doesn't go well for Amory.

Elizabeth His sophisticated education sets him apart from his peers. He has too good a French accent and behaves like a grown man already.

Anthony And a great example of him not fitting in occurs when he's invited to his first boy-girl party.

Elizabeth He attends the party of a girl in his class, Myra St. Clair, and arrives what he thinks fashionably late, as he learned from his mother, but he actually spoils the party by being late.

Anthony On top of that, Amory, playing up his romantic charms, he makes a pass at Myra, but when Myra is inspired to kiss him, he's repulsed.

Elizabeth He wants a perfectly romantic moment, but once he achieves it, he ruins it.

Anthony And his disregard for the feelings of Myra after their kiss gives us an insight into Amory's egotism and his inability to find fulfillment in romance, two important themes in this novel.

Frank And further sketches of young Amory follow, showing him falling in love often, reading voraciously and both being changed by and hating organized schooling. Amory also suffers from his individuality at school. He's not really well liked by the other boys.

Anthony Novels, essentially, it's a character study, right, of Amory, focusing only on important moments that would help the reader understand Amory's quest to understand his place in the world.

Elizabeth The snapshots serve beautifully to reinforce this intention. The portraits of the other characters are provided merely as background to our protagonist. Through these snapshots, we witness his first attempts to conventionalize himself, to fit in.

Frank He really does want to fit in, and in order to achieve that end, he knows he must distance himself from the distracting influence of his mother. And he needs to fit in at school, so he joins the school football team, where he actually has some success. When he returns to his mother in Lake Geneva, he announces he's become conventional, and he wants to go to boarding school.

Anthony They decide on St. Regis, a prestigious prep school in New England. Amory leaves for New England to enroll.

Elizabeth And to finally meet his mother's friend, Monsignor Darcy, with whom he forms an instant bond. Over the next years, they maintain an intense friendship. He is there for Amory for advice or to act as a sounding board.

Frank Well, Anthony, how does it go for Amory at St. Regis Prep?

Anthony Well, again, at first he struggles socially, academically. Other boys think he's conceited, and they're probably right. And though he's quite bright, his teachers consider him lacking in discipline. Amory recognizes the importance of athletics for being well-liked, and so he again throws himself headlong into football, striving for popularity.

Elizabeth And his situation improves. He applies himself to school in football, becoming a star on the team and somewhat of a hero on campus.

Anthony Always concerned with social politics, social standing, Amory and a friend devise a method of distinguishing between the big man on campus and the slicker, a word coined by Amory. What's a big man on campus? A somewhat romantic portrait of a boy who cares little for his appearance or standing, participates in activities out of a sense of duty, and has a problematic time in college without his prep school friends. And a slicker? Identified by his slick back hair, is more socially conscious, and succeeds at college in a worldly way.

Frank All right, so which is Amory?

Elizabeth Amory places himself among the big men.

Frank Well, big man on campus or slicker, it's time for Amory to get on to college. But before he heads to college, let's take a break here, and when we come back, we'll find out where Amory is going to go, and we'll follow along. You're listening to Novel Conversations. We'll be right back. you And welcome back. All right, when we left Amory, he was deciding where to go to college. When senior Darcy, a Yalie himself, recommends, wait for it, Yale. This move to college begins our second chapter of book one, and it's entitled Spires and Gargoyles.

Anthony Amory decides to attend Princeton, despite the advice of Darcy and the fact that most of his classmates were going to Yale and Harvard.

Frank And we're told that once he gets to Princeton, his system of slicker categorization breaks down in his junior year.

Elizabeth Amory moves into Princeton and meets his roommates, brothers Kerry and Byrne Holliday. Together, they try to adjust to their new environment, going to movies and getting hazed by upperclassmen.

Anthony Attempting to gain status in the class, Amory again goes out for football, but after an impressive start, he's sidelined by an injury. He then joins the newspaper, the Daily Princetonian.

Elizabeth Amory strikes up a friendship based on books with the avid reader Tom Denvilliers. Tom interests Amory in many new authors, and Amory introduces Tom to the social life of the college. World War I begins in Europe, but Amory takes little interest in it, concentrating instead on his successes at the newspaper and the Triangle Club, the musical theater group he has joined.

Frank And we're also introduced to a couple more of Amory's friends.

Anthony Well, we see Alec Connage, Jesse Ferenbee, Dick Humbert is one. Despite the fact that Dick's wealth comes from new money, Amory finds in him all the ideal qualities of his generation.

Frank And along with the Holiday Brothers, the group make up most of Amory's social world. And now Amory takes a trip.

Anthony The Triangle Club's famous tour across the country. Amory is introduced to a new young American social world. The narrator explains how the old world of the bell and her gentleman callers has been replaced by the looser, more risque world of the popular daughter, or the P.D., who drinks, smokes cigarettes, kisses men quite casually. Amory, who is quite handsome, remember. He greatly enjoys this scene and is very successful in it.

Frank And while on the trip, Amory meets one very experienced and attractive PD. Her name is Isabel, and they meet at the Mini Ha Ha Club in Minnesota, and they fall in love within a day. And when Amory returns to Princeton, they maintain a rapturous correspondence of love letters.

Elizabeth Because of his involvement in the newspaper, Amory had become somewhat of an elite man on campus. He plays the social scene well and is admitted into The Cottage, one of the elite clubs on campus.

Anthony Amory remembers his sophomore spring as one of the happiest times of his life, such as when he, Alec Connage, Dick Humbert, Jesse Farrinby, and Kerry go down to the coast for a weekend. They go there with no money and survive by sleeping outside and ridiculously underpaying for nice meals, all the while being drunk and boisterous.

Frank They don't really ridiculously underpay. At most points, they just sort of run out of the restaurant and don't pay anything at all.

Elizabeth Amory idealizes Dick Humbert, the way he walks, talks, and acts as the paradigm of social grace, even though he learned that Dick comes from new money and is not of the old elite class.

Anthony One night, Amory goes to a party in New York with friends, and upon returning, he discovers that Dick Humbert has crashed the other car and been killed in the accident.

Elizabeth After this sobering incident, Isabel arrives to go to the prom with Amory. The two are very much in love. Amory goes for a visit with Isabel's family at their estate on Long Island.

Anthony But… When Amory embraces Isabel, his shirt stud hurts her neck and leaves a mark. Out of this incident, a small argument erupts in which Isabel accuses Amory of being completely egocentric. He realizes that they actually do not love each other, and he leaves quickly. The affair, over.

Frank Yeah, this was a strange moment in the novel. Basically, he scratched her with a shirt stud. She was outrageously insulted by the little mark on her neck. He laughed at her. She thought he wasn't taking her seriously. And the next thing you know, it's over.

Elizabeth Yeah. Well, it just goes to show how shallow all of his connections are with these women throughout the book.

Frank That's a great point. Great point. But Elizabeth, after this incident, Amory spirals down a little bit.

Elizabeth Having failed a course the semester before, Amory returns to school early to study and to take a makeup exam. But even though failing the makeup exam would disbar him from the newspaper and campus success, he does not study, and he fails. Amory decides that he has conformed too much in striving for social success and believes that in failing the exam, he has rediscovered the fundamental Amory.

Anthony And we were saying earlier, we don't get much description on dad. The next time we check in with him, dead. He's gone. Amory's father passes away, and Amory attends the burial without a motion. What does interest him is the finances of his family, which are diminished because of some bad investments.

Frank Right. He's sadder to hear that than he was to hear about his father's passing.

Elizabeth Upon his return to the East, Amory visits Monsignor Darcy in New York. Darcy makes a distinction between personalities and personages. The distinction is somewhat vague, but the former, he explains, are a constant entity, while the latter gather experiences like metals, losing and gaining them with no effect. Darcy convinces Amory that he has given himself a new chance at life, and Amory leaves feeling renewed.

Anthony Amory disappears from the social scene at school and writes a scornful poem denouncing those who still participate in supporting the war. That's the students these days. Not as many scornful poems. Carrie Holliday leaves school to enlist in the aviation corps called the Lafayette Escadrille, a chivalrous decision that Amory admires.

Frank But Amory does continue to spiral. On one of his trips to New York, Amory and a drunken friend are out with two girls. The group heads back to one of the girls' apartments, when Amory thinks he sees the devil. He flees to the alley, and in a rather psychedelic nightmare, believes he's being followed by the devil. Or maybe he's following the devil.

Elizabeth He falls to the ground and he keeps saying that he wants someone stupid, which the narrator explains to us he, in the past, has thought of good people as being stupid, and so his wires kind of get crossed there. And then he sees the face of Dick Humbert in his mind. He returns to his room in Princeton where Tom, too, sees the devil watching Amory. The two discuss it all night long.

Frank And in our reading, we're led to the conclusion that the devil is to be a metaphor for Amory's conscience warning him about his lifestyle. But we're also told we should be grateful that at least he has a conscience.

Anthony That's a good point. Dick's death haunts Amory for the rest of the narrative. It is his first exposure to the random brevity of life. Also, metaphorically, it marks the extinction of the ideal man. All of Dick's graces could not shield him from his accidental death.

Frank We now move on to the fourth chapter of our book one, called Narcissist Off Duty. And if Amory is Narcissist Off Duty, perhaps he'll act for someone else besides himself.

Elizabeth In January of Amory's senior year, as a postscript to a letter, Monsignor Darcy asks Amory to visit a poor, widowed relation of his in Philadelphia. When Amory visits Clara, though, he is somewhat disappointed that she is not the image of poverty and squalor that he imagined, but he also falls in love with her.

Anthony She is beautiful and she's charming, and although she likes Amory, she announces she has never been in love and does not love him. Still, she observes that Amory is really quite humble and has neither much self-respect nor much judgment. Amory considers her the only girl he's ever met whom he could understand might prefer another man to him.

Frank But this meeting with Clara does turn Amory around. I think in her, he recognizes something of himself. You know, he wants to be loved, but he's not really interested in loving back. I think that's part of the narcissism.

Anthony Finally, the war reaches America and men start to enlist. Byrne declares himself a pacifist, sells all his belongings, and leaves for Pennsylvania on a battered bicycle. Amory and the others set off for the war, all of them trying to figure out whom to blame for the violence. Amory writes a poem blaming the Victorians. Amory and Tom say an emotional goodbye to Princeton.

Frank And now we move into a short little section in the book and it's titled Interlude, May 1917 through February 1919. I think it's a strange title for the years of a war. This section tells the story of Amory's time at war solely through two letters and a short narration.

Elizabeth The first letter, dated January 1918, is from Monsignor Darcy to Second Lieutenant Amory, stationed in Long Island. Darcy rages at the violence of the war and draws parallels through history. He observes that he has become an old man and implies that he wishes he were Amory's father.

Anthony Darcy applauds the way in which Amory entered the war without a motion, out of a sense of duty. It hints that he has achieved some of the qualities of the ideal gentleman that he saw in Dick Humbert.

Elizabeth He praises Amory's dutiful and sober entrance into the war as quite admirable and noble. Feeling a great bond between them, Darcy praises their similar faith and simplicity.

Frank And on the deck of his boat while heading for Europe, Amory writes a short poem on his departure. It's a descriptive piece that hints at the regret the speaker will feel about the futile years of the war.

Elizabeth The last piece of this section is a letter sent from Brest, Germany in January 1919, in which Amory tells Tom, who is still in America, his plans for after the war. Amory hopes to get an apartment with Tom and Alec Connage in Manhattan and is considering entering politics, complaining that while the best of the British enter politics, the best of the Americans try only to make money.

Anthony And with regard to money, Amory mentions in passing that Beatrice now has passed away, his mother. And he grumbles, similar to with his father, his main concern, the money. He grumbles that she left half of her money to the church. He laments the deaths of Carrie and Jesse in the war and wonders where Byrne is. He remarks how more men have discovered Paris than God. And interestingly, the way Fitzgerald writes it, he puts a G-D sort of obscuring

Frank He doesn't want to say the word God, but he wants to make sure we know it means the word God, right? Exactly.

Anthony And that line reveals that he also has not discovered a Catholic faith.

Frank All right, let's take a break here, and when we come back, we'll see what Amory does once he gets home from the war. We'll be right back. We're back. I'm Frank Lovallo, and you're listening to Novel Conversations. All right, when we left Amory, he had served his interlude and has come home. We now move to book two of our novel, The Education of a Personage, consisting of the last five chapters.

Elizabeth The first chapter of book two is the debutante. The narrative is now presented in a form of dramatic writing in dialogue form with stage directions. Rosalind Connage, Alec's sister, is coming out, which is an occasion marking a girl's entry into debutante society at the Connage House in New York, and Amory is present.

Frank This first scene contains not only some imaginative stylistic innovations of the young Fitzgerald, including different narrative forms and a shocking portrayal of a young debutante, but also the most important romance of the novel, Amory and Rosalind.

Elizabeth We learn from stage directions and from her mother, sister, and brother's comments as Rosalind prepares that Rosalind is a beautiful, sophisticated, and spoiled, selfish girl.

Anthony Amory accidentally enters her dressing room. Accidentally?

Frank He somehow just ends up in that dressing room. Third floor, go around to the left, go down the corridor, pass the teddy bear, and open the left door.

Anthony But more importantly for the novel, he stays once he accidentally goes in. And the two converse like professional socialites, a conversation that has rules. They kiss after several minutes. Rosalind boasts that she was expelled from Spence, her school, and that she has kissed dozens of men, and will probably kiss dozens more.

Elizabeth This portrait of Rosalind, especially her line about how many men she both has kissed and plans to kiss, is very feminist for its time. Amory leaves, wanting to kiss her again.

Frank And then Rosalind's mother reappears, explaining to her daughter the ways to lure a wealthy man, like Dawson Ryder, and urges her to follow the rules.

Anthony Then Rosalind, she has a busy night. Then the next several hours, Rosalind dismisses a former beau, meets Dawson Ryder, and then falls in love with Amory.

Elizabeth Then the novel shifts back to traditional narration and describes how the two spend several intense months being completely in love. Amory takes a job at an advertising agency in an attempt to make enough money to satisfy Rosalind.

Frank And then, once again, the novel shifts back to dialogue form as Rosalind's mother complains that Rosalind is spending too much time with Amory and not with a wealthier man.

Anthony Amory, for the first time here, he's not assuming some pose. He falls head over heels in love with Rosalind and is quite beyond his own control, surprising even himself. Well, yeah, he took a job. Right? Begrudgingly so. The love they share constitutes one of the most intense experiences Amory has ever had, and Amory agrees to conventionalize himself for the sake of it, taking the advertising job in the hopes of marrying Rosalind. But it is not to be.

Elizabeth One night, Amory appears looking quite haggard, overworked, and Rosalind painfully and reluctantly breaks off their engagement, saying she needs to be with a wealthy man and would not be the woman that Amory loved if they were to live without money. Amory is finally forced to leave and defeat.

Frank Money plays too important a role in their lives for Rosalind to give up a wealthy lifestyle. With some insight, no doubt gleaned from his own experiences, Fitzgerald explores the impact that a lack of money can certainly have on a relationship. We now move to Chapter 2 called Experiments and Convalescence. Anthony, how does Amory convalesce?

Anthony Amory decides to treat his pain with alcohol and proceeds to get thoroughly drunk in the bar of a club. He wakes up in a hotel room at the club, starts drinking again. He bemoans the loss of his love and heads out on the town to carouse again in a flurry of parties, and he tells nobody of his misery.

Elizabeth Amory heads to his work and announces to his boss that he is quitting and that he hated the meaninglessness of his job.

Anthony And four days later, a worn and exhausted Amory returns to his apartment. He tells the inquisitive Tom that he has been beaten by all kinds of people. Tom, in turn, explains that Alec has moved out of the apartment to return home and that they might not be able to afford the rent themselves, but they do not leave. They agree instead to live frugally.

Elizabeth Amory gathers all his love letters and mementos of Rosalind, buries them in his trunk, and sets out again on his debauch, leaving Tom behind.

Frank Thankfully, after three weeks of this self-destructive alcoholic convalescence, Amory is stopped short by, you guessed it, the institution of prohibition. Which makes booze far more difficult to find. Just in time. How convenient. Just in time for Amory. Saved him, really. The novel certainly implies that that moment saves his life.

Anthony So what does he do with his time now that he's accepted the end of this phase without- He conventionalizes. Yeah, back at it. The end of this phase without regret, he settles down and begins to read voraciously.

Elizabeth Still bored and feeling old, however, Amory attacks Tom for the cynicism of the review column Tom writes in the scholarly magazine, The New Democracy. Amory explains that he himself will not write until his ideas clarify, and that he will never love again the way he loved Rosalind.

Frank And perhaps echoing Fitzgerald, Tom rails against the writers of the day for being so mediocre and insists that many of their names will not survive at all.

Anthony But Amory does try to write a short piece about his lost youth. Of course. Then Tom is forced to move out of the apartment to go take care of his mother, and Amory goes to stay with an uncle in Maryland. There, he meets Eleanor.

Frank Our third chapter is titled Young Irony. I think our young personages is about to get an education. Elizabeth, tell me about Eleanor.

Elizabeth Eleanor Savage what a great name. Yeah, she's savage She's a young wild girl educated in France whom Amory meets on a rainy haystack in Maryland The narrator observes that neither of them would ever again have an adventure of the kind they shared. Oh

Anthony And I want to point out this is another one of those like it reads like a like a script like he just sets the scene so well and it's pretty modern almost you just visualize it so well. I agree. With the haystack. I agree. And the narrator explains that Eleanor lived in Maryland with her grandfather and then backtracks to the first time the two met.

Elizabeth In Maryland one day Amory is walking through the country reciting Poe.

Frank Of course he is.

Elizabeth When a sudden storm forces him to rush through a field looking for shelter. In one of the haystacks, he hears someone singing Verlaine.

Frank Of course she is.

Elizabeth A French poet. Lots of poetry in this book. Eleanor asks who is walking through the field and Amory responds that he is Don Juan and climbs up beside her on her haystack. If they're on the haystack, that's not really shelter, is it?

Anthony It seems higher, closer to the sky where the lightning is. I don't know. The two share a literary and youthful conversation, and they discover that even their thoughts follow the same paths. They part in the rain, and with a kiss goodnight, Amory feels himself quite enamored by the country and this 18-year-old girl who has lived in France and then angered all of her Baltimore relatives because of her wildness, and so came here to live with her grandfather.

Elizabeth The two spend a great deal of time together, talking of their love. Eleanor regrets the time she lives in, that she, who is quite intelligent, must marry a man who will be her intellectual inferior.

Anthony But on the night before Amory is to leave, they ride horses out to a cliff. Another cinematic moment here. Amory predicts that on her deathbed, Eleanor will lose her paganism and call for a priest. In response, Eleanor gallops headlong towards the cliff, but throws herself off the horse just before it goes over the cliff. Their love, understandably spoiled after this event, Amory leaves for New York.

Frank It almost felt like she wanted to pretend she was going to commit suicide and not accept God. It was a little confusing to read and Amory was shocked.

Anthony Well, she didn't want to conventionalize. She was saying, nope, not doing it.

Elizabeth The poor horse died.

Anthony Yes, it did. And though it wasn't funny, but the timing of it, the first thing she says is, and my horse, has he died? And he goes, oh, God, yeah. What do you think?

Frank He went over the cliff.

Anthony The two exchanged wistful and lovely poems several years later in memory of their love.

Frank Amory loses in love again.

Elizabeth Amory's relationship with Eleanor seems to be far more substantial and equal than his relationship with Rosalind. Amory and Eleanor share a love for literature and both have personalities that defy convention. He finds a romance with Eleanor that appears to be a truer romance than the one he shared with Rosalind.

Frank All right, we move now to the fourth chapter of book two. It's titled The Supercilious Sacrifice. And I looked it up. Supercilious is behaving or looking as though one thinks one is superior to others.

Anthony We next find Amory in Atlantic City watching the sea, where Alec Connage, with several girls, discovers him. With the deaths of their mutual friends on his mind, Amory does not want to socialize, but he agrees to stay with Alec at his hotel.

Elizabeth Amory heads to the room, lamenting the loss of his youth and the loss of Rosalind and Eleanor, and he falls asleep. He awakes to discover Alec and one of the girls from the party quite frantic. House detectives were banging on all the doors of the hotel looking for an unmarried man and woman sleeping together.

Anthony Amory decides to help, reasoning that Alec would be hurt worse by a scandal since he has a family, so he proceeds to straighten everything out. He sends Alec to sleep on the bed and goes into the bathroom with the girl. The authorities catch them, but agree not to press charges for this crime, one that would have sent them to prison. Instead, to protect the hotel's own anonymity, they agree only to write a line in the newspaper describing how a young couple had gotten into trouble.

Elizabeth Yet his true realization is that in helping, he is acting selfishly, superciliously. Despite the great good he does for Alec, he acts out of a sense of his own nobility, out of an impersonal desire to do something for someone else and be praised for it.

Anthony Back in New York, Amory discovers the short newspaper alert concerning himself and the young girl. And just above it, he sees a longer paragraph announcing the engagement of Rosalind and Dawson Ryder.

Elizabeth Amory reflects morosely on how the girl he most loved is now essentially dead to him. The next day, he learns that his family's investments have gone very badly, and he can expect no more money from them. Soon afterward, a telegram informs him that Monsignor Darcy has passed away.

Frank Wow, the hits to Amory keep coming. With the death of Darcy, the last of Amory's familial connections are gone.

Anthony Amory's family finances expire as well. The chapter ends, leaving Amory effectively alone, all of his support stripped.

Frank We've now reached the last chapter of book two, The Egoist Becomes a Personage. Sounds like maybe our boy is growing up.

Elizabeth Lacking money, Amory sets out to walk to Princeton. Amory thinks while he walks. He pauses beside a Civil War graveyard, and several of the tombstones make him think of his lost friends and loves.

Anthony On his walk, a wealthy, heavy man and his irritating secretary pick him up and drive him for a while. Amory sets out on a long rant directed at the big man, quite rudely ignoring the secretary on the nature of people's relationship to money. He basically attacks capitalism.

Elizabeth The big man does not agree with Amory's socialist ideas, but he likes Amory. Before they drop him off, the big man introduces himself as Mr. Ferrenby. Turns out he is the father of Amory's friend, Jesse, who died in the war. Amory tells Mr. Ferrenby what a fine son he had, and sets out walking again.

Anthony Amory arrives at Princeton around midnight, feeling sorry for the boys who are still being subjected to these old codes, but not feeling sorry for himself. He feels the old stir of ambition and dreams and pines for Rosalind, but he accepts it all. Stretching his arms out to the sky, the book ends with the words, I know myself, he cried, but that is all.

Frank Well, at least Amory embraces his knowledge of himself and seems content to know nothing more for the time being. And as we said, with that realization by Amory, our novel ends. All right, so Elizabeth, Anthony, now let's take a final break and then head into our last segment where I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. We'll be right back. And welcome back. Before our break, we ended our conversation, and now I'd like to ask the two of you to share a moment or a character or a quote that we haven't had a chance to get to yet. Elizabeth, do you have something for us?

Elizabeth One of the lines that really stood out to me was while he was in college at one point, he says to his friends, I hate to get anywhere by working for it. And this made me laugh. It sums him up as a person. I mean, he got this Ivy League education and it also says in the book that, you know, he's very lazy and he doesn't work very hard in his studies. And so this education is really kind of wasted upon him. And he later seems to act like it was the college's fault that he didn't get a good education rather than accepting that he didn't work very hard. And I mean, you know, he definitely could have been somebody and not been destitute at the end if he had actually put in some effort.

Frank Well, what age do we think he is? He's 24, 25. He's now had this realization, right? Maybe now's the time for him to get to that, to conventionalize, as we've been saying, to become that person who wants to work, who wants to succeed, to make himself better. Anthony, do you have something?

Anthony Yeah, I think I mentioned something about, in general, how many of the scenes were so sort of cinematic. He described them very well, I thought, in a sort of modern way. I'm sure other novels in 1920 didn't have this sort of action and movement. I just chose one little bit from when he and the guys were, I think it was Atlantic City or somewhere they were at, and just they're dine and dashing, we're saying, and they're running out. And this explanation, it took me twice to read it, but then once I got it, I thought it was so funny about how they got into a theater, a show for free. said their entrance was distinctly strategic, for each man, as he entered, pointed reproachfully at the one just behind him. Sloan, bringing up the rear, disclaimed all knowledge and responsibility as soon as the others were scattered inside. Then, as the irate ticket taker rushed in, he followed nonchalantly. And I just thought that was such a funny way, but wow, they all got in for free.

Frank One way to survive a weekend with no money, right? I wanted to talk about the names that Fitzgerald chooses for the chief character and his mother. I think they're very important. And guys, I'll be honest with you, I had to do a little research. This didn't just come to me. They both evoke romantic love in the European tradition. The unusual name, Amory, brings strongly to mind the word for love in all the romance languages. Amour in Spanish, amour in French, et cetera. And Beatrice is the divine ideal of Dante throughout the Divine Comedy. The choice of names places the work firmly in the European tradition of love narrative. And it suggests the perfection that Fitzgerald accords to the mother figure in the novel. And perhaps hints at the importance of Amory's love affairs in his own spiritual growth. I found that fascinating. that Fitzgerald dips back into medieval literature to come up with the names for his very modern characters. Those are some great moments and certainly a good way to end our discussion today about the novel, This Side of Paradise by F. Scott Fitzgerald. Elizabeth, Anthony, I do want to thank both of you for coming in and having this conversation with me today. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

Elizabeth Thanks so much, Frank.

Frank Yeah, thank you. You're both welcome. I'm Frank Lavallo, and you've been listening to Novel Conversations. Thanks for listening to Novel Conversations. If you're enjoying the show, please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find us on Instagram at Novel Conversations. Follow us to stay up to date on upcoming episodes and in anything else we've got in the works. I want to give special thanks to our readers today, Elizabeth Flood and Anthony Mahramus. Our sound designer and producer is Noah Foutz, and Grace Sienna Longfellow is our audio engineer. Our executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Joan Andrews. I'm Frank Lavallo. Thank you for listening. I hope you soon find yourself in a novel conversation all your own.

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